Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

[Dmol8]

Although a non-hover harvester armed with the tendrils would probably still be pretty effective; it's quite possible that it could just literally hoover up every scrap of tiberium in the ground it's about to drive over, mitigating some (not all) of the problems the hover harvester would counter.

Click to shrink...

We don't need to develop everything of the harvester tech we get for our harvesters immediately, that is what MARVs are for. Also:

Second is a derivative of the Brotherhood's harvesting claws. While GDI's rakes are quite effective, they only really harvest the first three to five centimeters down, and deeper Tiberium is often left effectively alone. The Brotherhood choses a different method, with a more limited but deeper harvesting, instead of sweeping large amounts of surface Tiberium into the harvester, as has been done since the earliest days of Tiberium harvesting, it digs deeply into the ground, pulling up Tiberium from the roots, and is able to tear through rocks in order to get to the Tiberium.

Click to shrink...

The harvesting claws were a breaktrough from Q2 so I'm not sure when we will be able to develop it. Get the hover factory next turn to see how it upgrades our harvester upgrades and then see if we want to wait for the third tech. Build the railgun harvester factories next turn though since we are about to settle our borders again and those are our border harvesters.

Also next generation MARVs are going to be something extra what with how Super MARVs work already:

[X] Super MARV Development
The Mammoth Armored Reclamation Vehicle served the Initiative well in the years leading up to the Third Tiberium War. Heavily armed and armored, and mounting an almost complete harvesting and first stage processing system, the MARV was able to cut through surface level Tiberium deposits. However, during the war, the limited self repair functionality, and the limits of its four modular weapons mounts made it vulnerable to air attacks. A third trailing tracked section offers a location for even more Tiberium storage, and two more mounting points for modular hardpoints. (Progress 69/40: 15 resources per die)

The MARV as designed is a powerful weapon of war and has proven itself in hundreds of battles. While occasionally defeated such as in the African Red Zone in 2047, each destruction saw the use of overwhelming NOD firepower and repeated attack waves, often using stealth assets to destroy MARV.

The critical flaw in MARV is its limitation of its Tiberium harvesting and refining methodology. While standard harvesters rake through the topsoil, collecting even relatively small crystals, the fixed harvesting array on a MARV on the other hand cannot sweep the Tiberium instead only collecting the large surface crystals. While admittedly able to collect a substantial amount of resources and able to cut through Tiberium fields, it is also far less than could be collected, and the remaining Tiberium crystals grow back faster than hoped meaning the area must undergo additional sweeps.

The "super" version of the MARV is intended to solve both of these problems. An additional trailer section behind the main gun turret adds much more space for weaponry and more storage for Tiberium while retaining the (admittedly limited) mobility that makes the MARV functional. This adds two sections for additional gun mounts and more tiberium storage. For the latter problem, the "mouth" of the MARV has been completely redesigned. A pair of sweeper arms, effectively upscaled from the standard Harvester, and able to sweep through the topsoil to bring smaller crystals up and into the MARV, have been installed and are intended to draw Tiberium into its mouth for processing. This will unfortunately render MARV immobile while the sweeper arms are deployed, but we believe this is to be a good trade off.

Rather than refitting existing MARV plants, the current goal is to build a series of new construction yards, a concession to the fact that the Super MARV is even more excessively armed, armored, and expensive than the "Standard" design.

Click to shrink...

Basically the harvesting claws are a full on upgrade to the Super MARV especially if combined with this turn's Scrin tech.

 

[sunrise]

Hoover vehicles are something where it will be great to have some factories for but we don't need enough to replace all of our existing vehicles as the rough terrain where hoover vehicles can operate but normal ones cant is not present everywhere but where it is they will provide a great boost to our power.
This can be during landings where they can leave the ships a mile of shore, while crossing a river or ravine or other terrain obstacles.

 

[Void Stalker]

I'm worried about us eating a nuclear cruise missile or eight while we're busy building up and carefully maximizing our offensive military capability.

Click to shrink...

Thats fair, probably knock Orca down to Tier 3 so Tier 2 is just finishing plan goals

 

[Simon_Jester]

Thats fair, probably knock Orca down to Tier 3 so Tier 2 is just finishing plan goals

Click to shrink...

Yeah. Basically, in my headspace there's "plan goals" stuff, there's "so important that the only thing that will stop me from doing it is a plan goal" stuff, and there's "I'm moderately comfortable with this being deferred until 2063" stuff.

SADN and Zone Armor fall into the second category, not least because I think that getting a couple of Zone Armor plants done in 2061 could make the difference between Parliament hitting us with a punitive requirement to build more in the Fourth Four Year Plan, versus Parliament recognizing that we're working on the problem now that we have a little breathing room and granting us some respect for that.

 

[Taliys]

As for tiberium dice - if I remember correctly, does the MARV overflow go to neighboring nodes?

Maybe then just 1-2 moves we will put all the tiberium dice and 2 military dice each (with which everything is not as bad as with space or agricultural, and so much can be afforded) into the Australian nodes?

There are approximately equal nodes of all three zones, they are enough for 9-18 dice not to overflow, and militarily it is useful to ruin the life of Bintang vassals.

 

[Void Stalker]

Yeah. Basically, in my headspace there's "plan goals" stuff, there's "so important that the only thing that will stop me from doing it is a plan goal" stuff, and there's "I'm moderately comfortable with this being deferred until 2063" stuff.

SADN and Zone Armor fall into the second category, not least because I think that getting a couple of Zone Armor plants done in 2061 could make the difference between Parliament hitting us with a punitive requirement to build more in the Fourth Four Year Plan, versus Parliament recognizing that we're working on the problem now that we have a little breathing room and granting us some respect for that.

Click to shrink...

Well for me that depends on how we are doing in terms of hitting plan goals after finishing the Tier 1 stuff. I do want to try and get plan goals done by Q3 so that would give Q4 to hit stuff like SADN and Ground Zone if not Q3. I am expecting to get to some of T3/Karachi Prep this plan just unsure of how much since that depends on both dice rolls and free dice allocation.

 

[Simon_Jester]

As for tiberium dice - if I remember correctly, does the MARV overflow go to neighboring nodes?

Maybe then just 1-2 moves we will put all the tiberium dice and 2 military dice each (with which everything is not as bad as with space or agricultural, and so much can be afforded) into the Australian nodes?

There are approximately equal nodes of all three zones, they are enough for 9-18 dice not to overflow, and militarily it is useful to ruin the life of Bintang vassals.

Click to shrink...

That's actually not the worst idea. Two Military dice and seven Tib dice would be enough to give us... 454 Progress from the dice alone, +52 from the Military dice, +273 from the Tiberium dice, is an average result of 779 Progress, enough that we could be reasonably sure of finishing two MARV hubs with progress on a third that we could finish off at leisure.

If we went meme plan and threw, say, +4 Free dice into Tiberium, that'd be another 360 Progress, and we could easily get three hubs with significant progress on a fourth.

Turning Australia into a MARV playground sounds fun!

 

[tenchifew]

As for tiberium dice - if I remember correctly, does the MARV overflow go to neighboring nodes?

Maybe then just 1-2 moves we will put all the tiberium dice and 2 military dice each (with which everything is not as bad as with space or agricultural, and so much can be afforded) into the Australian nodes?

There are approximately equal nodes of all three zones, they are enough for 9-18 dice not to overflow, and militarily it is useful to ruin the life of Bintang vassals.

Click to shrink...

I actually like this idea as well.
Two to three hubs in Australia would make it much harder for NOD to achieve any significant goals there, and it is something we can afford and build without too many problems.

 

[doruma1920]

Rather then Australia I'd pick RZ-1 South (Tripoli). Reason being the closest MARV Hub is YZ-13 North (Algiers). The next one to that is YZ-15 (Valencia). Such a move would help secure us from raids coming out of North Africa and NOD's Mediterranean coast. it would also help put an anvil against Reynaldo's remnants further securing the Iberian Peninsula. It does put pressure on Kane and Threshold 19, which may be good or bad depending on your point of view. Personally it can't be more provocative then the RZ-1 North Hub which is already in Italy itself. To me though its more about securing the coasts that could support raiders sallying out to intercept shipping in the East Atlantic then threatening Kane.

 

[Hazard]

Ehm, Hub Tripoli isn't going to do a lot for that. Actually, none of the hubs are particularly suited to fighting Reynaldo, because MARVs are good at 2 things.

The first is eating tiberium and clearing vast swaths of terrain for reclamation. It's kinda in the name of 'Massive Armoured Reclamation Vehicle'.
The second is being so humongously big and with such an oversized and devastating gun that trying to attack them is either stupid or takes a lot of resources.

Which is great when you are dealing with the likes of Stahl or Krukov, who have the resources to try and the doctrines to pull those resources together to try, but not so great with Reynaldo and Mehretu, who are both sneaky bastards and will instead try and hack away at GDI's public support, logistics and other potential weakpoints. And they will do so while avoiding the sort of force concentrations MARVs represent, while effectively fighting them requires far more dispersed forces than MARVs are capable of effectively providing.

In Russia, the Americas, China and India MARVs will make sense as military tools. Everywhere else, their biggest utility is as abatement and resourcing equipment. And focusing on MARVs when we have a ton of other military commitments as well as much more efficient resourcing and abatement sources is less than wise. If we are building MARVs anywhere for a purpose, that purpose is best suited towards putting together the infrastructure for Inhibitors, and we can best do that in areas GDI already has major control anyway, so right now Australia, or waiting a bit for the military to recover from the Regency War, especially ZOCOM because ZOCOM is going to be running those MARVs and it's very much stretched to its limits just from current garrison duties.

 

[BoredStudent1414]

there has been another Australian project gaining steam, the Adelaide Planned City concept. One of the biggest problems is security. With the city surrendered almost entirely intact, a far larger proportion of the population has refused offers to move to nearby Blue Zones. With many of them having spent their lives under Brotherhood control, and suspicions (although little true evidence) of strong confessor and remaining Brotherhood presence, it has become something of a political football passed back and forth between political groups, even those considered to be typically allied.

Click to shrink...

As we are discussing Australia now, I would like to bring up Adelaide. GDI has managed to capture a major Australian city intact, but the Parliament seems to regard Adelaide as a poisoned chalice. Many of the inhabitants of Adelaide have lived their whole lives under Nod rule and the city is intact enough to continue living there so many people have refused to move to the Blue Zones unlike in other recently captured territories. While there is little true evidence of a strong Brotherhood presence in Adelaide, a sizable amount of the population if not a majority is likely at least passively loyal to the Brotherhood of Nod. The question is what GDI should do with a large city full of Nod sympathizers.

One proposal is to rebuild Adelaide into a model GDI planned city. This move would hopefully convert the loyalties of the Adelaideans from Nod to GDI by improving their living standards and connecting them to the greater GDI economy. It would be a great symbolic move to turn the jewel of the Eastern Australian Brotherhood into a modern GDI city. The planned city would also likely support GDI control over the new Green Zone and Red Zone mining. Putting a MARV hub here would also increase these benefits.

There are some dangers with the Adelaide Planned City. There is a security problem as many inhabitants are passive Nod sympathizers and if there is a more powerful remaining Brotherhood presence than expected in the city, there could be an urban insurgency that could emerge to attack GDI construction workers and security forces when construction begins. Even if there is no significant Nod presence remaining in Adelaide, a lot of Adelaideans who are used to living without GDI involvement in their lives might not appreciate faraway GDI bureaucrats massively redesigning their city and telling them how to live. Another problem is that the Initiative First party will certainly be enraged if a lot of resources went into what they would consider coddling a city of Nod sympathizers instead of building better homes for loyal GDI citizens and voters might agree with them.

We could also settle for just building a MARV hub and fleet in or near Adelaide. A MARV hub would project GDI power and abatement efforts over the Eastern Australian Green Zone. Putting what Nod considers a symbol of GDI imperialism in the former jewel of the Eastern Australian Brotherhood would be a big slap in the face of Nod and be a show of force to any remaining Nod sympathizers in Adelaide. Of course, the downsides are the MARV hub would not do much to endear the Adelaideans to GDI and could be a (well-defended) target for remaining Nod forces.

We could also simply evacuate everybody willing to leave the city for the Blue Zones, build a railroad to connect Adelaide to the Blue Zone, and build basic services but otherwise leave the city inhabitants alone. This would be the cheap option and it would not risk angering potential Initiative First voters. The downside would be this would leave Adelaide with a population that is either pro-Nod, resentful at GDI, or just too stubborn to leave after everybody willing to leave the city for the Blue Zones has left. This would obviously do little to endear Adelaideans to GDI and leave a large population of Nod sympathizers to fester in their resentment. Perhaps their loyalties or of that of their children would change if the Blue Zones overtook Adelaide but that would be a slow process if that happened.

Your thoughts?

 

[HousePet]

Your thoughts?

Click to shrink...

Start by building a new brewery in Adelaide... XD

 

[Nottheunmaker]

I favor MARV Australia and Adelaide. It'd be a great place to skam in those new glacier mines, and with a whole side of a continent to work on, we could take the first steps in making the first continent wide Blue Zone. Now that would be a massive political win.

 

[Simon_Jester]

It's still Australia. Beer will help.

I favor MARV Australia and Adelaide. It'd be a great place to skam in those new glacier mines, and with a whole side of a continent to work on, we could take the first steps in making the first continent wide Blue Zone. Now that would be a massive political win.

Click to shrink...

Also, as far as anyone knows the Australian Red Zone only exists in the first place because GDI screwed up, so it would be a good gesture for us to start screwing it back down.

 

[bigking321]

tiBEERium.

The red zone miners beverage of choice.

 

[Nottheunmaker]

tiBEERium.

The red zone miners beverage of choice.

Click to shrink...

Hell, make it the tackiest, eyesearingly dayglow green color you can! People will hate it so much they come back around to loving it.

 

[doruma1920]

Your thoughts?

Click to shrink...

Just ask Bruce to do it. He's got the answers and the beer. (They are one and the same!)

Whether we do Planned City Adelaide in the coming Plan or not is probably gonna be decided during Reallocation.

Currently we already have 'Complete Karachi' (~23 Tib dice) as a commitment for the coming plan. We are likely to complete Phase 4 of Chicago this plan and may decide to take 'Complete Chicago' (~14 Infra dice for all of Phase 5) as a commitment for the next Plan. We are also likely to try to replicate our Orbital success this plan by taking 'Complete Shala' (~32 Orbital dice), 'Complete Columbia' (~32 Orbital dice), or more likely both, which is actually possible given we have 96 Orbital dice over a full Plan.

But I'm straying from the subject, Adelaide will likely be similar to the original Chicago given its proximity to the Australian Red Zone and therefore be ~26 Tib dice. However, what are the other things we can expect to take up our Tib dice in the coming plan? Abatement, Income, and Processing.

This Plan our goals were:
-40 Abatement
-700 Income
-1200 Processing

The next higher tier for Abatement and Income (Processing was the highest available), was 60 Abatement and 800 Income. If we take those as what we think our goals will be for worst case planning we would have the following goals in Tiberium:
-60 Abatement
-800 Income
-1200 Processing
-Complete Karachi
-Complete Adelaide

The abatement goal would cost about 60 dice, the income goal depends on how we get out abatement, but if we focused on Vein Mines, Border Offensives, and 'Super' Glacier Mines it would fall under the Abatement Goal. The Processing Goal would be met by 2 phases of Processing Plants (~4 dice). The Energy and Logistics costs would need investment to counteract, but this analysis is focusing on Tiberium.

Combining these we have
-60 Abatement: 60 dice
-800 Income: Covered by Abatement
-1200 Processing: 4 dice
-Complete Karachi: 23 dice
-Complete Adelaide: 26 dice
Total: 113

Tiberium Total: 112 dice over a full Plan, 1 Free die required.

This is ignoring the fact that we'd probably be using Infrastructure to help Karachi out during the Karachi Sprint. And this includes significantly higher Abatement and Income goals then the previous plan.

So yes, I think we can and should do the Planned City Adelaide if it is available.

 

[Chaeronea]

[]Plan Fleet in Being II
* Infrastructure ( 6/ 6 Dice) [ 60 Resources]
-[] Blue Zone Apartment (Phase 2+3+4) (28/480) [-4 Logistics, +18 Housing]
--[] 6 Dice (60 Resources)

* Heavy Industry ( 5/5 Dice +2 Free Dice) [170 Resources]
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 6) (153/300) [+16 Energy, -1 Labour]
--[]3 Dice (60 Resources)
-[ ] Crystal Beam Industrial Laser Development (0/80)
--[] 1 Dice (10 Resources)
-[]Isolinear Chip Foundry Anadyr (New) (0/320) [+4 Capital Goods, -2 Energy]
--[] 2 Free Dice (100 Resources)
-[]Security Review
--[] 1 Dice

* Light and Chemical Industry ( 5/ 5 Dice) [120 Resources]
-[]Chemical Fertiliser Plants (Phase 2) (94/300) [+4 Consumer Goods, +4 Food, -1 Energy]
--[] 2 Dice (30 Resources)
-[]Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 1+2) (71/285) [+1 Capital Goods, +3 Energy]
--[]3 Dice (90 Resources)

* Agriculture (4/4 Dice) [50 Resources]
-[]Freeze Dried Food Plants (126/200) [+5 Food, -1 Energy, increases efficiency of stockpile actions]
--[] 1 Dice (20 Resources)
-[]Blue Zone Aquaponics (Phase 3+4) (30/280) [+12 Food, -2 Labour, -1 Logistics]
--[] 3 Dice (30 Resources)

* Tiberium ( 7/7 Dice) [ Resources]
-[]Tiberium Processing Plants (Stage 2) (20/200)
--[] 2 Dice ( 60 Resources) (+600 processing capacity, -4 Energy, -3 Logistics)
-[] Railgun Harvester Factory
--[]Bissau (0/70) (+5 resources, -2 Energy)
---[] 1 Dice (10 Resources)
--[]Porto (44/70) (+5 Resources, -2 Energy)
---[] 1 Dice (10 Resources)
-[] Intensification of Green Zone Harvesting (Stage 6) (46/100)
--[]1 Dice (15 Resources) (+5-10 Resources)
-[]Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 6) (54/200)
--[]2 Dice (50 Resources) (+10-15 Resources)

* Orbital ( 6 /6 Dice) [120 Resources]
-[] GDSS Enterprise (102 / 1535)
--[] 4 Dice (80 Resources)
-[]Lunar Heavy Metals Mines (Phase 2) (217/385) (+20 Resources per turn)
--[] 2 Dice (40 Resources)

* Services (3/5 Dice) [60 Resources]
-[] Automatic Medical Assistants (101/300) (+5 Health, +4 Labor, -4 Capital Goods, -2 Energy)
--[] 3 Dice (60 Resources)

* Military ( 8/8 Dice + 5 Free Dice) [260 Resources]
-[]Escort Carrier Shipyards
--[] Dublin (0/240) (-5 Energy, -2 Capital Goods)
---[] 3 Dice (60 Resources)
--[]Nagoya (0/240) (-5 Energy, -2 Capital Goods)
---[] 2 Dice (40 Resources)
--[]New York (0/240)
---[]1 Free Dice [20 Resources]
-[] Shark Class Frigate Shipyards
--[]Melbourne (172/300) (-6 Energy, -2 Capital Goods)
---[]2 Dice (40 Resources)
--[]Seattle (0/300) (-6 Energy, -2 Capital Goods)
---[] 2 Free Dice ( 40 Resources)
- []Wingman Drone Deployment
--[]Firehawk Wingmen (215/450) (-1 Labour, -6 Energy, -2 Capital Goods)
---[]2 Free Dice (40 Resources)
-[] Mastodon Heavy Assault Walker Development (0/30)
--[] 1 Dice (10 Resources)


* Bureaucracy (4/4 Dice) [0 Resources]
-[]Security Review
--[]Bureaucracy
---[] 2 dice +1 dice
--[] Heavy Industry
---[] 1 Dice


Resources: 985
Expenditure: 985 [60+170+120+50 +145+120 + 60+260 +0]
Resources Remaining: 0

Free Dice: 7/7
Erewhon Dice: 1


The only things I really changed in this plan were moving the dice I had on Orbital Cleanup to Enterprise construction, putting an extra Free Dice on the Firehawk Wingman project. I also took 1 dice from the Nagoya CVE yard and moved it to Mastadon Development - this means the Nagoya yard won't complete this turn, but the Dublin CVE yard and the Shark frigate yard have a more than even chance of being finished this turn, but one we complete the Mastodon Development that will give us a good idea of how Resource-intensive the Mastodon Deployment would be.

Also, I had enough Resources left to put a Free dice into starting up the New York CVE yards, although I didn't have enough Resources to use the Erewhon dice. This means that the New York and Nagoya CVE yards will not be completed this turn but can at least get started, making them easier to complete in the following turn (it also gives us another turn to build more Fusion Plants for Energy).

Regarding Tiberium, I'm thinking of dropping the Red Zone Containment Lines from my plan. We need an additional 65 Resources per Turn to meet our plan goal, but that doesn't have to be from Tiberium harvesting - we're committed to 4 phases of space mines as a plan goal and we'll get 45 Resources per turn from those mines (20 Resources from 1 phase of Lunar Heavy Metals, 15 Resources from 1 phase of Lunar Regolith, and 5 each for 2 phases of Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting. So we only need 20 more Resources - we get 5 each from the two Railgun Harvester factories, and the Intensification of Green Zone Harvesting has a fifty-fifty chance of getting us the last 10 Resources we would need to reach that goal. So I'm wondering if dropping a dice from Red Zone Containment Lines and using those Resources to spend on the Erewhon dice to do the Railgun Munitions Development objective to clear another goal. Can the Erewhon dice be used for that research?

Current Mil priorities for me:
Tier 1
Escort Carrier Yards
Shark Frigate Yards
Firehawk Wingmen Drone
Ablat Deployment
Railgun Munitions

Tier 2
Orca Wingmen Drone to follow Firehawk Wingmen Drone
URLS to follow Ablat Deployment
Mastodon Dev and Deploy for Plan Goals and mil tech testing
ASAT and ORSCT for Plan Goals

Tier 3
SADN Phase 1 and 2
Ferro Aluminum Armor Refits (dice can go here first couple of turns of plan since this is so cheap and let us keep going full bore with our other dice)
Zone Lancer Development
Hammerhead Wingmen
Steel Talon Weapon/Equip Dev

Karachi Prep:
1 or 2 Apollo Factories
Advanced ECCM Development
Stealth Disruptor Development
GD-3 Rifle Dev
1 or 2 Ground Forces Zone Armor
Hallucinogen Countermeasures Development
Island Class Assault Ships

Click to shrink...

@Void Stalker Can I suggest we put development of the Island assault ships and Victory monitors into Tier 2? This will let us see what shipyard options each class will have and how much progress is required for each one. We're going to need them for the Indian invasion for the Karachi push next plan, and the sooner we know what we have to deal with the better.

I actually like this idea as well.
Two to three hubs in Australia would make it much harder for NOD to achieve any significant goals there, and it is something we can afford and build without too many problems.

Click to shrink...

And we'd lose most of those Resources when we tick over to the next plan cycle

Although if we're running short of Political Support in the lead-up to next plan's vote we could do this for Blue Zone Reclamator hubs, because each of those generate 5 Political Support.

 

[bigking321]

But I'm straying from the subject, Adelaide will likely be similar to the original Chicago given its proximity to the Australian Red Zone and therefore be ~26 Tib dice.

Click to shrink...

This might be incorrect.

As I recall Adelaide would be the navel planned city. So... probably some military dice involved there?

 

[Void Stalker]

@Void Stalker Can I suggest we put development of the Island assault ships and Victory monitors into Tier 2? This will let us see what shipyard options each class will have and how much progress is required for each one. We're going to need them for the Indian invasion for the Karachi push next plan, and the sooner we know what we have to deal with the better.

Click to shrink...

Not really tier 2 (since Orca is dropping to tier 3) is all about finishing the plan goals. I am likely to try and sneak in the assault ships but we dont have the dice to get both assault and monitor shipyards rolled out in time for them to provide ships for the attack, we might be able to get 1 assault shipyard up which will have to be enough with the rest of the navy. Anything else and we are likely looking at ships coming online after we have already done the first karachi push.

And we can't ignore the rest of the armed forces.

 

[bigking321]

If we are going to start development on new land vehicles we should probably start putting dice into hover stuff.

I have no idea when. We've got a lot on our plate already.

 

[tenchifew]

And we'd lose most of those Resources when we tick over to the next plan cycle

Although if we're running short of Political Support in the lead-up to next plan's vote we could do this for Blue Zone Reclamator hubs, because each of those generate 5 Political Support.

Click to shrink...

Point, this said it could still be arguably worth it, just out of increase in security alone.
Pushing it into next plan would run into costs - it is a costly project for the first year or so, while doing it now would fulfill our income goals, not that we are in danger not to hit them, admittedly.
But we do still need 65 points, the MARVs would cover most of that. This said, with the space mines we are building we should hit the goals anyway…

Edit:
Just had a thought, we could build the hubs but not the Marvs, maybe, making them fortresses for now?
This said, I am not sure if it is even an option with marv system overhaul…

 

[HousePet]

I don't think that worrying about losing income to a reallocation makes a lot of sense.
The Welfare Department, for example, will know that they need X income over the next few years. (Which is presumably where our income goals come from.) So they will expect to receive X at the next reallocation, not specifically a percentage of GDI's GDP.
Other departments will get annoyed if we say that they cannot have enough to cover their expected needs over the next Plan. If we over achieve on our income goal before the reallocation, then this is less likely to happen. The more we can share at the reallocation, the happier everyone else will be. (And also more productive.)

 

[bigking321]

Although if we're running short of Political Support in the lead-up to next plan's vote we could do this for Blue Zone Reclamator hubs, because each of those generate 5 Political Support.

Click to shrink...

That's...

Hmm...

That's a interesting idea.

I'm not sure if that's preferable to red or yellow zone hubs...

But Europe could probably use the extra security with nod there being extra terrorism happy.

 

[Simon_Jester]

[]Plan Fleet in Being II
* Infrastructure ( 6/ 6 Dice) [ 60 Resources]
-[] Blue Zone Apartment (Phase 2+3+4) (28/480) [-4 Logistics, +18 Housing]
--[] 6 Dice (60 Resources)

Click to shrink...

The big problem here is that we'd be doing nothing in Infrastructure to help with the situation the military faces. No finishing the fortress towns we started, no new rail links out into the Green Zone areas we just rolled up, nothing. The enormous surge of housing will be nice to have, but we'll be neglecting a lot of other problems. Just because the apartments are a Plan target doesn't mean they're intrinsically that much more important than everything else.

* Heavy Industry ( 5/5 Dice +2 Free Dice) [170 Resources]
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 6) (153/300) [+16 Energy, -1 Labour]
--[]3 Dice (60 Resources)
-[ ] Crystal Beam Industrial Laser Development (0/80)
--[] 1 Dice (10 Resources)
-[]Isolinear Chip Foundry Anadyr (New) (0/320) [+4 Capital Goods, -2 Energy]
--[] 2 Free Dice (100 Resources)
-[]Security Review
--[] 1 Dice

Click to shrink...

Okay, doing a Heavy Industry review at least makes sense; it's been a long time. On the other hand, my preferred target is still Bureaucracy itself.

* Tiberium ( 7/7 Dice) [ Resources]
-[]Tiberium Processing Plants (Stage 2) (20/200)
--[] 2 Dice ( 60 Resources) (+600 processing capacity, -4 Energy, -3 Logistics)
-[] Railgun Harvester Factory
--[]Bissau (0/70) (+5 resources, -2 Energy)
---[] 1 Dice (10 Resources)
--[]Porto (44/70) (+5 Resources, -2 Energy)
---[] 1 Dice (10 Resources)
-[] Intensification of Green Zone Harvesting (Stage 6) (46/100)
--[]1 Dice (15 Resources) (+5-10 Resources)
-[]Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 6) (54/200)
--[]2 Dice (50 Resources) (+10-15 Resources)

Click to shrink...

What makes you think Red Zone Containment Lines will even be available as an option? Just because GDI's offensives are likely to come to a halt some time in 2060Q4 doesn't mean Nod will calm down and let us freely go out there to expand the Red Zone containment.

* Orbital ( 6 /6 Dice) [120 Resources]
-[] GDSS Enterprise (102 / 1535)
--[] 3 Dice (60 Resources)
-[]Lunar Heavy Metals Mines (Phase 2) (146/385) (+20 Resources per turn)
--[] 3 Dice (60 Resources)

Click to shrink...

Lunar Heavy Metals is actually at 217/375, not 146/385. Because of this, a third Orbital die spent on that mine is likely to be wasted. I recommend two dice on Heavy Metals and four on Enterprise Phase 5 if you want to do things this way.

* Military ( 8/8 Dice + 5 Free Dice) [260 Resources]
-[]Escort Carrier Shipyards
--[] Dublin (0/240) (-5 Energy, -2 Capital Goods)
---[] 3 Dice (60 Resources)
--[]Nagoya (0/240) (-5 Energy, -2 Capital Goods)
---[] 2 Dice (40 Resources)
--[]New York (0/240)
---[]1 Free Dice [20 Resources]
-[] Shark Class Frigate Shipyards
--[]Melbourne (172/300) (-6 Energy, -2 Capital Goods)
---[]2 Dice (40 Resources)
--[]Seattle (0/300) (-6 Energy, -2 Capital Goods)
---[] 2 Free Dice ( 40 Resources)
- []Wingman Drone Deployment
--[]Firehawk Wingmen (215/450) (-1 Labour, -6 Energy, -2 Capital Goods)
---[]2 Free Dice (40 Resources)
-[] Mastodon Heavy Assault Walker Development (0/30)
--[] 1 Dice (10 Resources)

Click to shrink...

My only problem with this plan is that it retains the "don't have any interest in getting Firehawk drones this turn" issue. The Air Force is still complaining about the lack of them, and will still need them even as the war shifts into mid-gear or low-gear conflict.

* Bureaucracy (4/4 Dice) [0 Resources]
-[]Security Review
--[]Bureaucracy
---[] 2 dice +1 dice
--[] Heavy Industry
---[] 1 Dice

Click to shrink...

I don't think it's a good idea to do the one-die review here, especially in an area where we are reasonably concerned that there might actually be something to find...

@Void Stalker Can I suggest we put development of the Island assault ships and Victory monitors into Tier 2? This will let us see what shipyard options each class will have and how much progress is required for each one. We're going to need them for the Indian invasion for the Karachi push next plan, and the sooner we know what we have to deal with the better.

Click to shrink...

The military as a whole seems reasonably confident of being able to do Karachi without those specific ship classes. I'm not sure they're essential, though it'd be nice to have some of the assault ships.

If we are going to start development on new land vehicles we should probably start putting dice into hover stuff.

I have no idea when. We've got a lot on our plate already.

Click to shrink...

For some of our next-gen vehicles, hover chassis may not be such a good idea. Too likely to make them bleeding-edge and expensive, what with requiring large amounts of STUs on vehicles that get blown up.

Edit:
Just had a thought, we could build the hubs but not the Marvs, maybe, making them fortresses for now?
This said, I am not sure if it is even an option with marv system overhaul…

Click to shrink...

It's not really an option anymore, and I can see why. First, because Treasury isn't normally in the business of deciding where to put fortresses; that's Ground Forces' job. Second, because after the YZ-5a campaign, I think everyone is concerned about how a MARV hub with no MARVs becomes a high-profile target. Even if it's well defended, it's still an isolated forward base. Not good.

I don't think that worrying about losing income to a reallocation makes a lot of sense.
The Welfare Department, for example, will know that they need X income over the next few years. (Which is presumably where our income goals come from.) So they will expect to receive X at the next reallocation, not specifically a percentage of GDI's GDP.
Other departments will get annoyed if we say that they cannot have enough to cover their expected needs over the next Plan. If we over achieve on our income goal before the reallocation, then this is less likely to happen. The more we can share at the reallocation, the happier everyone else will be. (And also more productive.)

Click to shrink...

You're quite right, though I'd be just as happy to (for instance) prioritize Tiberium projects that provide more abatement and less Resources rather than the other way around. The catch is that everyone is going to be quite happy to have more money, so they will still take a lot of what we bring in...

But at the same time, if we've lifted the overall GDP by a greater amount, then it's a lot easier politically speaking for us to sell ambitious Treasury budgets like 30-35% of GDP. Right now, GDI's gross domestic product is around 2000 RpT and 30% of that would be 600-ish RpT, leaving 1400 for everyone else. If the GDP were more like 2200 RpT, 35% of that would be 770 RpT for us, but everyone else would still get 1430- just as much or slightly more.

That's...

Hmm...

That's a interesting idea.

I'm not sure if that's preferable to red or yellow zone hubs...

But Europe could probably use the extra security with nod there being extra terrorism happy.

Click to shrink...

MARVs aren't good support against terrorism.

More generally, I certainly don't see the possibility of +Political Support from a Blue Zone hub as being a bad thing. The big problem is just fitting it into the overall program, and I could maybe see doing that in 2061Q3 or Q4 when the pressure on our Military dice will probably have relaxed a bit.

I really want to do the RZ-7 inhibitor in North America, though. We're leaving Red Zone abatement on the table there.