Hey guys, remind me again which Quarter did we unlock production for the Paladin and Super Orca?

Uhh, we started the Super Orca Refit on Q3 2059 and finished it Q4. I think we unlocked production in Q3 2056.

As for the Paladin we never developed it. We unlocked its development in Q3 2057 to little fanfare as we were in the middle of the Stabilizer rush. The development project was taken down in Q2 2060 as Steel Vanguard was off to a great start and it was clear we weren't going to be developing it for some time.
 
It was a combination the start of the war, us not looking to start anytime soon and we unlocked hoover vehicles risking them getting obsolete in a few years.
 
Unless we go fully into nothing but laser and plasma, we're not transitioning the whole fleet of ground vehicles to hover - providing a stable firing platform for railguns would be a nightmare. And to be clear, we aren't transitioning the entire fleet's armament to laser and plasma, that's a waste of our limited stock of trans-uranics.
 
Just to point it out, corpse starch may not be fit for human consumption by many standards. However, i is excellent pig feed. As long as you control the number of pigs in the ranches to sane levels, you can convert the 'waste' food into ham and bacon. Those can last a long, long time if made right.

So corpse starch fed pigs are a way to make undesirable food much better to eat and it changes the corpse starch into emergency food that is rather unpalatable into 'food' reserves on paper that won't rot in weeks like they do now. If nothing else, dry sausages are something that lasts for a long time in reserves compared to what is there now. Apparently anyway.

Also pigs are the choice of animal for cloning human organs last I checked.

This has been a message from the 'Commite for Subcontract the Eating of Corpse Starch Commission'.
 
@Ithillid

You know, that's actually a very logical application for 'corpse starch' [less metal name pending].

Use it for animal feed, to reduce the -Food costs of Ranching Domes, possibly at slightly increased costs of -Energy or something for processing costs or I dunno.

What do you think?

Strictly speaking, we didn't independently research Liquid Tiberium Generators. They'd be significantly less productive, and less safe, than our current versions if we had started from scratch.
What I meant is that we obtained them independently of any other concern. Assuming the dice had played out the same way, we'd have them even if we'd never worked on fusion. If the dice had played out differently, we wouldn't have had the option, even if we'd researched fusion. I think the entire concern that fusion power is "hitting diminishing returns" is spurious; there will come a point at which older plants need refits and maintenance, but I suspect that much the same would be true if we built ~128-160 Energy worth of any Energy-giving structure or facility.

As to whether we should build some, I'm not opposed, especially since with Steel Vanguard we've conquered some big stretches of land where an Indianapolis-scale tiberium contamination event wouldn't be that big of a disaster in terms of risk to life, limb, and valuable assets.

But we should do it at a time when we're in a good position to control the narrative and have lots of spare Political Support to trade in. Shortly before reapportionment, at a time when our Political Support is in the '50s, is not a good time.

So discussing this in discord but I am going to bring it a bit here. I'd like to make the argument that we should be investing, at least minimally, in Navy at all times. I understand that we all have our projects but hear me out. Because of the long wait times naval procurement can't work the same way as other types of military investment. For example we can churn out 4 Jet factories in a series of turns if we need it because those Jets will arrive in at most 2 turns or 6 months. Same with military vehicles, guns etc. Naval projects(that aren't refits) come in large batches at a time over a long period of time.

Take the Escort Carrier which will take 18 months(I believe) and make 20 ships. The issue is that we have a procurement strategy of "Dump money into finish a singular project to finish it and get the results". It works for other projects but that does not work for the Navy. Hence why I'd like to suggest that in the future, even after this mass investment, that we continue to invest one, maybe even two dice at all times into the navy. This strategy above also has the added bonus of reducing ship building times because as our builders get more experience building the ship it takes less time for it to new ships of that model to be built(QM has said this).

We can't crisis build a Navy. Naval investment has to be over a period of time because of its long wait times. Slow, steady, constant investment is the only way to build a powerful navy.
There is a broad consensus in favor of your approach, though in times of shipbuilding, we might instead choose a strategy like "put three dice into a big yard then trickle-finish it with one die per turn while focusing on other things," going for a time-averaged result of something like 1.5-2 dice per turn. Shipyards and Zone Armor factories would make sense 'taking turns' like that.

You know what might help with this HI and power squeeze? A nice friendly Liquid Tiberium Disposal Facility (that oh so coincidentally produces power).
To be honest, we're actually pretty cool on power right now. But I'm not opposed to having some liquid tiberium plants, just don't put 'em in Australia because the poor bastards down there are already traumatized enough and the eight surviving panda koala bears will cry.
 
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To be honest, we're actually pretty cool on power right now. But I'm not opposed to having some liquid tiberium plants, just don't put 'em in Australia because the poor bastards down there are already traumatized enough and the eight surviving panda bears will cry.
We may be pretty cool for power right now, but that is only because we keep dumping half (or more) of our HI dice in it each turn. As has been mentioned many time around here, there are some rather good things we could be doing with HI dice instead.

(And why are there panda bears in Australia?)
 
To be honest, we're actually pretty cool on power right now. But I'm not opposed to having some liquid tiberium plants, just don't put 'em in Australia because the poor bastards down there are already traumatized enough and the eight surviving panda bears will cry.
Put it in Nuuk, power demand up there is crazy.

No, I'm sure absolutely nothing bad could happen putting a big Tib reactor next to our major next gen robotics factory.

But maybe invest in SADN a bit once it's made.

Just incase.
 
We may be pretty cool for power right now, but that is only because we keep dumping half (or more) of our HI dice in it each turn. As has been mentioned many time around here, there are some rather good things we could be doing with HI dice instead.
Sure. On the other hand, we're rapidly approaching "light at end of tunnel" time, with enough fusion energy to handle all the war factories we're trying to roll out so quickly (the root cause of our problem). And replacing our heavy investment in fusion completely with tiberium power would take a huge amount of unpopular tiberium power. We're willing to spend -5 Political Support just to advance the tech and see if we can find good/normalized uses for it. Are we willing to spend -10 or -15 Political Support to replace each phase of fusion plants? That sounds like a little much, when Free dice are a thing.

(And why are there panda bears in Australia?)
Koalas. You saw nothing. :D

Put it in Nuuk, power demand up there is crazy.

No, I'm sure absolutely nothing bad could happen putting a big Tib reactor next to our major next gen robotics factory.

But maybe invest in SADN a bit once it's made.

Just incase.
Realistically, we'd keep the tiberium plants far enough away that any plausible explosion wouldn't endanger the robot factories. At the same time, apparently this stuff is unpopular even in Greenland. :p
 
Sure. On the other hand, we're rapidly approaching "light at end of tunnel" time, with enough fusion energy to handle all the war factories we're trying to roll out so quickly (the root cause of our problem). And replacing our heavy investment in fusion completely with tiberium power would take a huge amount of unpopular tiberium power. We're willing to spend -5 Political Support just to advance the tech and see if we can find good/normalized uses for it. Are we willing to spend -10 or -15 Political Support to replace each phase of fusion plants? That sounds like a little much, when Free dice are a thing.
Personally I would rather hold off on more -PS until next plan so we have a good cushion for reallocation, that and so we can get some SADN up before we start experimenting. Also because I am hoping to push our HI and LCI to get us to unlock the next level of fusion for comparison.
 
Sure. On the other hand, we're rapidly approaching "light at end of tunnel" time, with enough fusion energy to handle all the war factories we're trying to roll out so quickly (the root cause of our problem). And replacing our heavy investment in fusion completely with tiberium power would take a huge amount of unpopular tiberium power. We're willing to spend -5 Political Support just to advance the tech and see if we can find good/normalized uses for it. Are we willing to spend -10 or -15 Political Support to replace each phase of fusion plants? That sounds like a little much, when Free dice are a thing.
You keep taking this to extremes. Nobody said anything about completely replacing fusion with Tib Power. Everyone is just saying we could spend 1-2 dice to finish the existing project, which gives us a bit more leeway with HI dice.
We could have done it a year ago, but we keep getting told that Fusion power is good enough, and that there isn't an Energy crunch, while 3-5 dice are dumped on Fusion Power each turn.
 
Current Mil priorities for me:
Tier 1
Escort Carrier Yards
Shark Frigate Yards
Firehawk Wingmen Drone
Ablat Deployment
Railgun Munitions

Tier 2
Orca Wingmen Drone to follow Firehawk Wingmen Drone
URLS to follow Ablat Deployment
Mastodon Dev and Deploy for Plan Goals and mil tech testing
ASAT and ORSCT for Plan Goals

Tier 3
SADN Phase 1 and 2
Ferro Aluminum Armor Refits (dice can go here first couple of turns of plan since this is so cheap and let us keep going full bore with our other dice)
Zone Lancer Development
Hammerhead Wingmen
Steel Talon Weapon/Equip Dev

Karachi Prep:
1 or 2 Apollo Factories
Advanced ECCM Development
Stealth Disruptor Development
GD-3 Rifle Dev
1 or 2 Ground Forces Zone Armor
Hallucinogen Countermeasures Development
Island Class Assault Ships

Tier 1 and 2 I want to finish this plan (some of which are plan goals). For the shipyards plans I propose will be heavy on dice (7 or 8) up front to try and push them forward as quick as possible to try and get every last ship we can ready for when we launch the Karachi operation next plan, ideally knock them out Q4 and Q1. Wingmen helps tilt attrition combat in our favor so keep on rolling them out across our air force, probably 3-4 dice each turn. Ablat, Railgun and URLS we can fit in around shipyards and wingmen since those are only 2-3 dice over a couple of turns hopefully (so ideally we knock them out Q4 and Q1) as they both provide a more immediate boost to our mil and are plan goals. Mastodon likely dev Q2 and deploy Q3 and start slamming ASAT and ORSCT to finish plan goals ideally finish them Q3 so no risk of missing them for the plan.

Beyond that a mix of general mil improvements (SADN, Zone Lancer, Hammerhead and Steel Talon dev) along with some prep for the Karachi op. Island Class Assault Ship I intend to put a dice on Q2 hopefully so we can try and get a yard finished Q4. More apollo factories to work on air superiority, advanced ECCM and Stealth disruptor to make it easier to target NOD both on the tactical and strategic level, GD-3 rifle so our infantry are using an upgrade for the modern battlefield as I expect NOD India to have quite a bit in the way of advanced units. To that end getting some Zone Armor for the Ground Force to give them something that can stand up to some of NODs heavier infantry would be useful as well.
 
You keep taking this to extremes. Nobody said anything about completely replacing fusion with Tib Power. Everyone is just saying we could spend 1-2 dice to finish the existing project, which gives us a bit more leeway with HI dice.
We could have done it a year ago, but we keep getting told that Fusion power is good enough, and that there isn't an Energy crunch, while 3-5 dice are dumped on Fusion Power each turn.
No I mean, there's totally an energy crunch, it's just that building one phase of tiberium power effectively saves us about 4/2 = two Heavy Industry dice, in a tradeoff for two Tiberium dice (roughly), and at the cost of Political Support we're a bit short on at the moment.

The scale of what this can do for us has to be considered when viewing it as a useful alternative.

But that is how it works though? If you go over your food income and have to dip into your stored food then your losing it at a 1 to 1 ratio. At least that is the assumption I've seen you use.
You haven't seen me use that assumption any time in the vaguely recent past and I can't recall ever using it at all.

We have no evidence that there is a 1:1 ratio here.

Please stop fixating on the idea that you've discovered a secret obvious theft we're all too stupid or blind to recognize.

Tier 2
Orca Wingmen Drone to follow Firehawk Wingmen Drone
URLS to follow Ablat Deployment
Mastodon Dev and Deploy for Plan Goals and mil tech testing
ASAT and ORSCT for Plan Goals

Tier 3
SADN Phase 1 and 2
Ferro Aluminum Armor Refits (dice can go here first couple of turns of plan since this is so cheap and let us keep going full bore with our other dice)
Zone Lancer Development
Hammerhead Wingmen
Steel Talon Weapon/Equip Dev

Karachi Prep:
1 or 2 Apollo Factories
Advanced ECCM Development
Stealth Disruptor Development
GD-3 Rifle Dev
1 or 2 Ground Forces Zone Armor
Hallucinogen Countermeasures Development
Island Class Assault Ships
I think Orca wingmen drones are a lower priority than SADN and getting a few Zone Armor factories up and running.

Advanced ECCM and stealth disruptors should be considerably higher up the list in priority... but can reasonably (arguably should be) put off until we're starting to seriously prepare for Karachi, because if they're anything like the anti-stealth tech we had recently, they're going to have a much higher impact if we time the tech to be deployed in such a way that Nod doesn't know we have it until we up and smack them over the head with a big hammer made out of it.
 
Thinking about Tiberium beyond next turn, we have a lot of spare dice now that Karachi has been postponed and Chicago is moving to HI. Like a LOT of spare dice.

From Tiberium we only need 20 RpT of income* and the Processing. The former we will finish this coming turn in all likelihood**. The latter which can be accomplished by either investing in the Refits (1 Tib die) with the assumption that we are going to do Chicago Phase 4 and that project still provides Tiberum Processing, or though the Tiberium Processing Plants (2 Tib dice).

Lets assume for sake of argument that we must complete the Tiberium Processing Plants to finish the Processing goal, because Chicago Phase 4 doesn't provide Processing. And lets also assume that in the coming turn we get 20+ RpT from Tiberium. That means come Q1 we would have 28 Tiberium dice, and only need 2 for the Processing Plants. That leaves us with 26 spare Tiberium dice.

That is a lot.

So, what are we going to invest it all in? Cause I can tell you right now we have options here.

One, as is being discussed, is to move it into Liquid Tib Power, and take the pressure off of the Fusion plants. However, I'm not sure thats a good idea given we need 2-3 more phases of Fusion for power and to completely replace that with Liquid Tib instead would cost 20-30 PS (assuming the PS cost per phase continues, something given the setting seems likely). Of course we could instead only use a phase or two instead of the 4 to 6 we would need to run the Factories and Shipyards, and just take the edge off instead of replacing it whole sale. This isn't necessarily a bad idea as Liquid Tib Energy gives a more granular approach then Fusion and we could replace one of the Fusion plants with Liquid Tib, saving some dice and R. However that isn't a good idea this coming turn as currently we need two dice on average to complete the current phase of Fusion (16 Energy), and we need one die on average for the current phase of Liquid Tib (8 Energy). The same ratio between Energy and dice, with the former not having the PS cost. Still, there will be a point where we will need to way the extra 5 PS going into Reallocation against the extra Energy. As a side note on the PS front we will gain some from our current Plan Goals (10 from Enterprise).

A second choice is to roll out MARVs to secure our new territory, lock down isolated Warlords, and prepare the ground for more inhibitors. The problem with this is the need for Military dice, which while not in quite as bad a situation as Agriculture or Orbital, are still pretty crunchy.

Third is go straight for the inhibitors we currently have available. This is very useful and I think we should at least complete the currently available RZ and YZ inhibitors. The BZ inhibitors are a bit more of an ask as they require 3 Energy each. That is a big ask, but might not be as big as it might initially seem one phase of Fusion can support 5 BZ inhibitors after all.

Fourth there are the two research programs in Tiberium, the Viseroids and the Tiberium Spikes. We don't need the latter. While more RpT is nice, we are still fighting a two front war and giving the green death rock help is not a good idea. Also the PS cost is prohibitive this close to Reallocation. For viseroids, while I don't have the same visceral (heh) reaction to the project, and the description hints that it may lead to a way to deal with liquid tib deposits, it has the same PS cost as the Tiberium Spikes and unless we get some PS generation outside of Enterprise it doesn't seem wise to do it this close to Reallocation.

Next is the option of Tib Containment, Processing Refits, and extra Tib Processing. The advantages of Containment over the Processing is it doesn't cost Energy or Logistics and is cheaper in terms of both Progress and RpD. However because Containment doesn't give us anything other then redundancy in the event of a NOD masterstroke that takes out a bunch of our Processing, arguably it is better to just have more Processing. For the Refits they are a cheap way to get extra STUs and a bit of extra processing.

Sixth and last (and best in my opinion) option is the various Tib harvesting projects (Vein Mines, YZ/RZ Harvesting, GZ Intensification, RZ Border Offensives, Glacier and 'Super' Glacier mines and RZ Containment). More precisely I think we should heavily invest in RZ Border Offensives, RZ Harvesting, and GZ Intensification. Beyond the next phase of YZ harvesting we don't want to keep hammering it as our Ground Forces have dropped in confidence and we do not want to over extend. Vein Mines are RpD cheap compared to the various RZ operations, therefore it is better for us if we leave them for after Reallocation when we need to rapidly expand our income. Further we know that on a per die and per R basis we get the most income from the Glacier mines, which means we also want to build them post reallocation. This means if we want to be ready to rapidly build Glacier and 'Super' Glacier mines in the next plan, we will need to make sure we have those mines unlocked before the start of the new plan. Therefore us needing to get a bunch of RZ Harvesting and RZ Border Offensives. More of the latter then the former as the latter not only gives more income on average on a per R and die basis then RZ Harvesting, Border Offensives unlocks the 'Super' Glacier Mines. We also want to fully complete the available GZ Intensification as they help secure our new territory. RZ Containment is not currently available thanks to the Regency War, but that might change soon with its draw down, and would be a great way to shore up the Red Zone Abatement.

So, in short. I think we should take the next turn to knock out the Railgun Harvesters, finish the current phase of YZ Tib Harvesting, complete some GZ Harvesting, and maybe finish the Refits. Then in 2061 turn to Mitigation efforts and prepwork for the post reallocation 'Super' Glacier Mining spree.

*We do need 65 more RpT, but the most progress efficient way of finishing the Lunar Mines goal will give us 5+5+15+20=45 RpT, meaning we only need 20 more from Tiberium to meet the Goal.

**Assuming we do something like:
Tiberium 7/7 Dice 110 R
-[] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 10): 174/350 (2 Dice, 40 R) (67% chance)
-[] Intensification of Green Zone Harvesting (Stage 6): 46/100 (2 Dice, 30 R) (100% chance, 82% chance of Stage 7, 8% chance of Stage 8)
-[] Tiberium Processing Refits (Phase 5): 6/100 (1 Die, 20 R) (61% chance)
-[] Railgun Harvester Factory (Bissau): 0/70 (1 Die, 10 R) (85% chance)
-[] Railgun Harvester Factory (Porto): 44/70 (1 Die, 10 R) (100% chance)
Minium RpT Gain = 10 (>0.5% chance)
Average RpT Gain = 28.525 (67% * 7.5 + 100% * 7.5 + 82% * 7.5 + 8% * 7.5 + 85% * 5 + 100% * 5)
Max RpT Gain = 50
 
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Steel Talon Weapon/Equip Dev
Does this mean that deploying the portable ion cannons is down at tier 3? They've been sitting there for a while.

and at the cost of Political Support we're a bit short on at the moment.
Let me assure you that 54 PS is luxurious. :p


Hmm... Tib dice:
I really don't think we should push any further with YZ Harvesting. We are very behind on the Fortress Towns that support this, and I'm still expecting one or two surprises from NOD. Would be good not to lower Ground Forces confidence further with more overreach.
Intensification of Green Zone Harvesting and Railgun Harvester Factories are no-brainers though, as we want to consolidate our gains.
Chicago does still give processing capacity though (it loses abatement), so I'm not sure that the Processing Refits are needed.
I'm fine with dropping a die a turn on Tib Power until it completes. +8 is good enough to be a buffer, and I really want to get tech moving on something that actively eats liquid tiberium.
Visceroid Research will have to wait until we rake in more PS though.
We have many options for MARV Hubs:
The one in Lhasa would help protect our Himalayan BZ, and might be useful when we go for Karachi.
We could go for a big push in claiming Australia by building those Hubs.
The two yellow zone hubs in South America could be useful to buffer against Stahl.
Or the YZ hub in NW Mexico to further interfere with NOD there.
East coast of Africa could be another good option, as it would link BZ 4 down to the southern end of Africa.
But yeah, RZ Border Offensives look like the way to go next. Although I wouldn't discount the normal RZ Harvesting, as a push along the Congo River would open up some deep RZ for harvesting.
 
So I've made a map of all of our current and potential Reclamator Hubs.
So I looked at the map of future Reclamator Hub locations and I have doubts about the naming conventions used.

Hubs RZ-2 North (~Pointe-Noir) and South (~Dar es Salaam) are separated by barely 200 km on the N-S axis on a zone that extends for thousands of kilometres.

Hub BZ-18 isn't in Blue Zone 18.

Hub RZ-4 South (~MVVF+7V2, Dhalghata, Bangladesh) and North (~Shenzhen - Hong Kong) are only separated by about 75 km on the N-S axis on a Red Zone that is primarily North-South.

Worst of all, RZ-5 North (~Kota Kinabalu) and South (~Banda Aceh) are separated by less than 40 km on the N-S Axis.
 
Personally I would rather hold off on more -PS until next plan so we have a good cushion for reallocation, that and so we can get some SADN up before we start experimenting. Also because I am hoping to push our HI and LCI to get us to unlock the next level of fusion for comparison.
Yeah, exactly my point.

Third is go straight for the inhibitors we currently have available. This is very useful and I think we should at least complete the currently available RZ and YZ inhibitors. The BZ inhibitors are a bit more of an ask as they require 3 Energy each. That is a big ask, but might not be as big as it might initially seem one phase of Fusion can support 5 BZ inhibitors after all.
Yeah, we especially shouldn't leave Red Zone inhibitors on the table, because ultimately, it's growth of Red Zone that really threatens human life on Earth. If the whole planet was going to turn into a Yellow Zone forever, we could probably adapt, with all the environmentally sealed heavy engineering tech we have. It'd be bad, but not unmanageable; Nod handles it.

But Red Zones are just impossible, and are death, so we should be doing everything we can to build the stuff that fights them. This is especially true because we've jacked up our Yellow Zone mitigation so far that realistically, the main limit on our ability to convert Yellow Zones to Blue is ability to take territory from Nod, not our ability to create more mitigation to hold the Yellow Zones back.

Fourth there are the two research programs in Tiberium, the Viseroids and the Tiberium Spikes. We don't need the latter. While more RpT is nice, we are still fighting a two front war and giving the green death rock help is not a good idea. Also the PS cost is prohibitive this close to Reallocation. For viseroids, while I don't have the same visceral (heh) reaction to the project, and the description hints that it may lead to a way to deal with liquid tib deposits, it has the same PS cost as the Tiberium Spikes and unless we get some PS generation outside of Enterprise it doesn't seem wise to do it this close to Reallocation.

Next is the option of Tib Containment, Processing Refits, and extra Tib Processing. The advantages of Containment over the Processing is it doesn't cost Energy or Logistics and is cheaper in terms of both Progress and RpD. However because Containment doesn't give us anything other then redundancy in the event of a NOD masterstroke that takes out a bunch of our Processing, arguably it is better to just have more Processing. For the Refits they are a cheap way to get extra STUs and a bit of extra processing.
Point one: I think it's probably worth building some containment silos on general principles. It's not that hard of a project and we did put some real time and effort into developing the capability.

Point two: We should bear in mind that we may be seeing 'tentacle' harvester tech becoming available soon, or if we push to get Suzuka out, even a hover harvester design. This could be big and we may want to spend Tiberium dice on those things, not least because they may prove to be a direct +RpT project like the railgun harvesters did, only perhaps more so because they actually mine tiberium more efficiently, instead of just being better defended against raids.

Point three: A wave of vein mining might be desirable to increase raw RpT income now, hopefully making it more politically palatable for us to retain a larger 2062 budget.

Point four: Red Zone Harvesting is a tricky/iffy project, because (for example) our next point of entry to the Red Zones is the Congo. That's likely to expose us to the same Nod naval raiders who have been making our life hell. Red Zone Offensives may be a better line of attack, and it may be best to prioritize those plus Vein Mines as our income generators, with an eye to opening up super glacier mines rather than traditional, ZOCOM-straining glacier mines in areas we can only reach by air or sealift.

With all of that said, I agree with you about immediate priorities.
 
I think Orca wingmen drones are a lower priority than SADN and getting a few Zone Armor factories up and running.
Orca wingmen help fill out our carrier and escort carrier (and later assault ship) air wings as well as attacking as support for our ground forces. Reducing attrition of our Orca pilots will help out in the run up to Karachi. As well as anti sub ops and skirmishing with NOD.

Advanced ECCM and stealth disruptors should be considerably higher up the list in priority... but can reasonably (arguably should be) put off until we're starting to seriously prepare for Karachi, because if they're anything like the anti-stealth tech we had recently, they're going to have a much higher impact if we time the tech to be deployed in such a way that Nod doesn't know we have it until we up and smack them over the head with a big hammer made out of it.
Karachi prep is kind of a subsection of tier 3 but there was enough items in it that I felt it was useful to split off. Adv ECCM and Stealth Disruptors would be up higher except a lot of tier 2 is making sure we knock out plan goals. Only Orca Wingmen are not plan goals, and well Orca Wingmen are useful for deploying on the Escort Carriers and Assault Ships once we make those

Does this mean that deploying the portable ion cannons is down at tier 3? They've been sitting there for a while.
Medium Tactical Plasma Weapon Deployment? Yes, Tier 3 is stuff I expect some of to start this plan cycle and carry onto the next and part of that is trying to keep up with rolling out steel talon stuff as they kind of play dev for the rest of the forces.
 
Point one: I think it's probably worth building some containment silos on general principles. It's not that hard of a project and we did put some real time and effort into developing the capability.

I don't disagree. As I said, it is far cheaper then the processing and gives roughly the same hardening of our economy. It just doesn't give the economic benefit that more processing would. The first Phase of containment at least is still worth it as a final, just in case deal.

Point two: We should bear in mind that we may be seeing 'tentacle' harvester tech becoming available soon, or if we push to get Suzuka out, even a hover harvester design. This could be big and we may want to spend Tiberium dice on those things, not least because they may prove to be a direct +RpT project like the railgun harvesters did, only perhaps more so because they actually mine tiberium more efficiently, instead of just being better defended against raids.

Yeah, I admit I was only really looking at what we have currently available. If a Harvesting Tendril Deployment project pops up that will change things.

Point three: A wave of vein mining might be desirable to increase raw RpT income now, hopefully making it more politically palatable for us to retain a larger 2062 budget.

Point four: Red Zone Harvesting is a tricky/iffy project, because (for example) our next point of entry to the Red Zones is the Congo. That's likely to expose us to the same Nod naval raiders who have been making our life hell. Red Zone Offensives may be a better line of attack, and it may be best to prioritize those plus Vein Mines as our income generators, with an eye to opening up super glacier mines rather than traditional, ZOCOM-straining glacier mines in areas we can only reach by air or sealift.

Just from an R perspective we might have to invest in Vein mines just because they are cheaper per die and we have a lot of expensive projects to do. I'm also not sure exactly many Vein Mines we can do now that Nuuk Phase 4 is unlikely to complete this plan. Further I included Red Zone Harvesting as a project since while the Red Zone Border Offensives are a better project on an income per die and R basis then Red Zone Harvesting, we aren't quite sure how many phases of the Border Offensives we have available. The Border Offensives only cover four areas (Central/Eastern Europe, Eastern Australia, and a small strip on both sides of Rockies). This is less of a concern now that we have the entire eastern side of the Australian RZ to mine from, but it is still a factor.
 
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Orca wingmen help fill out our carrier and escort carrier (and later assault ship) air wings as well as attacking as support for our ground forces. Reducing attrition of our Orca pilots will help out in the run up to Karachi. As well as anti sub ops and skirmishing with NOD.
I'm worried about us eating a nuclear cruise missile or eight while we're busy building up and carefully maximizing our offensive military capability.

Karachi prep is kind of a subsection of tier 3 but there was enough items in it that I felt it was useful to split off. Adv ECCM and Stealth Disruptors would be up higher except a lot of tier 2 is making sure we knock out plan goals. Only Orca Wingmen are not plan goals, and well Orca Wingmen are useful for deploying on the Escort Carriers and Assault Ships once we make those
Capabilities that enhance other capabilities eventually, down the line, aren't on quite the same level as capabilities that protect us from a category of threat we are otehrwise unable to counter.
 
Point two: We should bear in mind that we may be seeing 'tentacle' harvester tech becoming available soon, or if we push to get Suzuka out, even a hover harvester design. This could be big and we may want to spend Tiberium dice on those things, not least because they may prove to be a direct +RpT project like the railgun harvesters did, only perhaps more so because they actually mine tiberium more efficiently, instead of just being better defended against raids.
Given the massive efficacy in harvesting Tiberium, to the point of being able to stalemate a Tib Glacier, it's highly likely that a Scrin-tech harvester would not only provide RpT, but Abatement as well, or significantly increase the Abatement provided by certain projects. Getting Suzaku online got bumped up the priority list.
 
Although a non-hover harvester armed with the tendrils would probably still be pretty effective; it's quite possible that it could just literally hoover up every scrap of tiberium in the ground it's about to drive over, mitigating some (not all) of the problems the hover harvester would counter.
 
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