- Location
- USA
We just have to be careful on what we do, also we picked up 2 this current turn from rivers (not enough to bump us up so we stayed on ++++). Also at 5 R per dice easier to fit in.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
While I still expect us to see unexpected changes in the next turn thanks to recent events (and the upcoming Forgotten conference), for now a bit of critique:
@Void Stalker I think you're overspending your Tiberium dice. We know Redoubts doesn't have an extra phase, and it seems like Enclosure Campaigns doesn't either, meaning any overflow will be lost. It'd be better to put those two dice on other Tiberium projects. Especially thanks to Tiberium's +28 bonus giving single dice decent progress and making unfinished projects easy to complete.
For Saarland, you don't have to chip away at it. You could do it this turn. Switch the dice off New Moscow, then use the other 2 Free Dice to activate the Tiberium dice for it. It'll cost the same Resources and have a much better chance of finishing than 2 dice on New Moscow does. (64% vs 5%) And since you're using so many Free Dice on Capital Goods you might as well get the more difficult one done first, then we could finish off with New Moscow and one of the other Capital Goods projects next turn.
Also, two errors: Zone Suit Factories cost 15R per die, meaning your plan would cost 30R, not 20R, to use two dice there and is therefore 10R over budget. Secondly, the completion percentage you use for Orbital Strike Development is one without the chance of using an Omake bonus, which is inconsistent with all the other percentages you use that do. (Should be 97% instead of 82%)
@Chaeronea Yellow Zone Power Grid gives far less power than Blue Zone Power Grid; 2 points vs 16 points. Blue Zone Power Grid will enable multiple power-using projects where Yellow Zone will provide the power for half of one. Even if Yellow Zone is cheaper, it's just far less efficient an investment at this time.
For Wolverines, we expect a bit of a lull in military conflict after the recent battles. We don't need to rush them out into production right now. Going four dice (for a 91% completion chance) is an over-investment that would only be appropriate if we were expecting a major battle immediately like we did with the Field Artillery last turn. One alternative is Advanced Myomer Works, as it lowers the costs and progress required for all Walker projects, including the Wolverines, plus unlocks other projects elsewhere like advanced prosthetics.
@Void Stalker I think you're overspending your Tiberium dice. We know Redoubts doesn't have an extra phase, and it seems like Enclosure Campaigns doesn't either, meaning any overflow will be lost. It'd be better to put those two dice on other Tiberium projects. Especially thanks to Tiberium's +28 bonus giving single dice decent progress and making unfinished projects easy to complete.
For Saarland, you don't have to chip away at it. You could do it this turn. Switch the dice off New Moscow, then use the other 2 Free Dice to activate the Tiberium dice for it. It'll cost the same Resources and have a much better chance of finishing than 2 dice on New Moscow does. (64% vs 5%) And since you're using so many Free Dice on Capital Goods you might as well get the more difficult one done first, then we could finish off with New Moscow and one of the other Capital Goods projects next turn.
Also, two errors: Zone Suit Factories cost 15R per die, meaning your plan would cost 30R, not 20R, to use two dice there and is therefore 10R over budget. Secondly, the completion percentage you use for Orbital Strike Development is one without the chance of using an Omake bonus, which is inconsistent with all the other percentages you use that do. (Should be 97% instead of 82%)
@Chaeronea Yellow Zone Power Grid gives far less power than Blue Zone Power Grid; 2 points vs 16 points. Blue Zone Power Grid will enable multiple power-using projects where Yellow Zone will provide the power for half of one. Even if Yellow Zone is cheaper, it's just far less efficient an investment at this time.
For Wolverines, we expect a bit of a lull in military conflict after the recent battles. We don't need to rush them out into production right now. Going four dice (for a 91% completion chance) is an over-investment that would only be appropriate if we were expecting a major battle immediately like we did with the Field Artillery last turn. One alternative is Advanced Myomer Works, as it lowers the costs and progress required for all Walker projects, including the Wolverines, plus unlocks other projects elsewhere like advanced prosthetics.
- Location
- USA
2 enclourse dice though is down to 26% percent, but i can drop a redoubt dice. Also, I wonder where we are going to get our 24 mitigation without another phase there, we only have 17 in known projects so we need either some that we finished this turn to do another phase or some of the current options to get the 24 we need.
Saarland takes energy though and requires tib dice and hi dice in equal amounts. New Moscow however mentions in the options that it makes projects go faster which seems important to pick up, not to mention no energy requirement.
Ugh... hmm will have to figure out what to drop for the 10 or change to a different mil option, will fix orbital, thought i had updated all of them
edit- dropped sarland for the extra 10 and added 1 on YZ power and 1 on craft shops to spend the remaining 10
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
From the results this turn, it sounds like we're going to be getting multiple new options next turn. Also, I think a 1 in 4 chance to get a project completed 1 die and 20R cheaper is worth the shot, especially since it lets that die go to use in another Tiberium project.
We're going to have to spend energy to finish our Capital Goods shortage no matter what. And my point was that you could put 3 Free Dice in HI and 2 Free Dice (plus the one extra you set aside already) in Tiberium to try to get Saarland done in one turn.
It gives us that Energy for 15 Resources, which is about a quarter of what it would take to complete the Blue Zone Grid. And while it only provides 3 pts of Energy (assuming each + doubles the value of the previous one) it's completed in a single turn.
Also if the Energy requirements listed for factories double with each pip (North Boston Phase 3 with --- Energy required 7 Energy rather than 3) we're running a lot closer to the edge of running out of Energy than I thought. Even if we do complete the Blue Zone Grid Expansion that will only give us enough Energy for Kure and Saarland before we're back to square one.
- Location
- The internet
++ is 2, +++ is 4, ++++ is 8, +++++ is 16.
- Location
- USA
Flip side it gets us that 4 RZ mitigation sooner which we need given how tiberium has been spreading. It depends on if dropping it will give a shot at finishing another mitigation with the 1 from redoubts.
I have 1 free dice in mil though, so would have to reduce mil spending and after the combat we had that seems like a poor idea as just 3 mil dice is not cutting it. Also pushing back the energy cap goods gives time to finish energy projects and as mentioned New Moscow should help speed up some of our stuff most likely infra type projects and hopefully the power projects. So New Moscow than Saarland than another cap good project to get us to neutral
Could we also get numbers rather than the ++/-- readouts? Because those have proven to be somewhat confusing.
I was thinking of something like this for the upcoming turn:
Infra:
-[] Yellow Zone Reconstruction (Phase 3) 82/200 1 die 15R 6%
HI:
-[] North Boston Chip Fabrication (Phase 3) 474/600 3 dice 45R 90%
LI(one free):
-[] Toy Plants 68/100 1 die 5R 92%
-[] Lithium Battery Plants 0/200 3 dice 30R 43%
Agri:
-[] Luxury Aquaponic Bays 0/100 1 die 10R 24%
tiberium(140R)
-[] Blue Zone Perimeter Redoubts (Phase 3) 138/200 1 die 20R 82%
-[] Blue Zone Perimeter Outposts (Phase 4) 61/??? 2? dice 40R
-[] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Phase 4) 2 dice 60R 82%
-[] Red Zone Enclosure Campaigns 0/200 1 dice 20R
orbital
-[] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 1) 0/100 1 die 20R 24%
Sevices(50R/ 4 free dice?):
-[] Reopen the Publishing Houses 0/150 2 dice 20R 62%
-[] university 1 dice + enough free to complete
Military(35):
-[] Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Development 53/75 1 die 15R 97%
-[] Advanced Myomer Works 0/125 2 dice 20R 48%
With the tacticus raid over we can spend time and dice on long term improvements for the military with the two factories to support their production.
Toy factories and Boston provide consumer goods this turn and with luck Luxury Aquaponic Bays as well.
Tiberium should remain at 6 dice glacier mining will pay for itself before the plan is done and the added resources will help the other departments during the next plan. We want to complete the abatement goal before the last turn else we might end up putting all of our free dice into tiberium then to guarantee making our goal.
Enterpise will allow us to clean the obits making communications and orbital troops saver.
Publishing Houses will help spread information and propaganda to counter NOD.
Advanced Myomer Works will lead to improved prosthetics, cheaper walkers and improved zone suites.
A am considering going with 30R less in services and putting those into a robotics plant
Infra:
-[] Yellow Zone Reconstruction (Phase 3) 82/200 1 die 15R 6%
HI:
-[] North Boston Chip Fabrication (Phase 3) 474/600 3 dice 45R 90%
LI(one free):
-[] Toy Plants 68/100 1 die 5R 92%
-[] Lithium Battery Plants 0/200 3 dice 30R 43%
Agri:
-[] Luxury Aquaponic Bays 0/100 1 die 10R 24%
tiberium(140R)
-[] Blue Zone Perimeter Redoubts (Phase 3) 138/200 1 die 20R 82%
-[] Blue Zone Perimeter Outposts (Phase 4) 61/??? 2? dice 40R
-[] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Phase 4) 2 dice 60R 82%
-[] Red Zone Enclosure Campaigns 0/200 1 dice 20R
orbital
-[] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 1) 0/100 1 die 20R 24%
Sevices(50R/ 4 free dice?):
-[] Reopen the Publishing Houses 0/150 2 dice 20R 62%
-[] university 1 dice + enough free to complete
Military(35):
-[] Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Development 53/75 1 die 15R 97%
-[] Advanced Myomer Works 0/125 2 dice 20R 48%
With the tacticus raid over we can spend time and dice on long term improvements for the military with the two factories to support their production.
Toy factories and Boston provide consumer goods this turn and with luck Luxury Aquaponic Bays as well.
Tiberium should remain at 6 dice glacier mining will pay for itself before the plan is done and the added resources will help the other departments during the next plan. We want to complete the abatement goal before the last turn else we might end up putting all of our free dice into tiberium then to guarantee making our goal.
Enterpise will allow us to clean the obits making communications and orbital troops saver.
Publishing Houses will help spread information and propaganda to counter NOD.
Advanced Myomer Works will lead to improved prosthetics, cheaper walkers and improved zone suites.
A am considering going with 30R less in services and putting those into a robotics plant
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think the point of that in the original VSNKh quest was to show the scale of things, not just to obscure the exact numbers. Like how +++ is categorically bigger than ++, such that going from 3 to 4 points is a bigger change than going from 4 to 5 points. But here in the year 2052 we often do have exact numbers, so maybe that's not so important for this quest?
In Blackstar's USSR quest the +++/--- system is intentionally kinda hazy especially at higher magnitudes because the bureaucracy there is working with slide rules and telegram lines in the mid 20th century Soviet Union and the best they can usually do is a rough guess of the magnitude that's probably within a standard deviation of the truth but isn't exact. In this quest it's also kinda hazy because of everything being in ruins, but like Ithillid just said as society starts to come back together our information should improve and we'll maybe start seeing exact measurements like "-7 power units" or whatever instead of "roughly ----"
Also kinda tangentially related to why I don't like to make super detailed plans before the turn is even posted, we're going to have new options and complications and information that will probably result in us throwing it out anyways.
Also kinda tangentially related to why I don't like to make super detailed plans before the turn is even posted, we're going to have new options and complications and information that will probably result in us throwing it out anyways.
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- Location
- USA
I find it gives a frame work to work with- X amount towards Tib mitigation, X amount towards cap goods and so on and so forth
- Location
- The Underdark
The ++/-- readouts were always going to be temporary. However, right now, you still have a fair number of points where the system is creating imprecisions. Over time, especially as you get a better capital goods situation, and can stabilize things more, you will start seeing more and more indicators give numbers. You have already seen the first, with the population, but over time, that will spread to more things.
Edit: one of the things that has been a fairly long term idea for this quest is that as you rebuild society and rebuild/improve the systems, you will get more/better information. There have been a couple of examples already, between restarting systems back in the first turn of the quest, and the more recent Tiberium Environmental Surveys which got you a precise number on mitigation efforts. Future projects are going to be getting you things like more widespread good information, potentially recalibrating the system as you do. (one potential recalibration is setting existing production in an area to = 1000, and then giving you a production:consumption:net readout for each and every good) There are likely to be projects where you can spend capital goods to make your dice more reliable. Same modifiers, similar range, but instead of rolling 1d100, a die is actually 2d50, 4d25, or 5d20 as you provide a more educated workforce and one with far more capital in hand.
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- Location
- Hyperborea
Could be a lot worse, a Warhammer 40K Planetary Governor quest using this system would be a nightmare for players to keep track of. Especially for a Hive World.
"You have between +++++++++++++++ and ++++++++++++++++++++ production, which is sufficient to meet the Administratum quotas, but demand for food has increased to the point where imports need to increase to ++++++++++++++++++++, plus or minus +++."
Well, presumably, value of each +and - would have increased, like it did in this quest compared to the original.
- Location
- The Underdark
Even in this quest, the value of one + or - is pretty floated. It is more or less a usable metric of relative capacity/consumption rather than something that has a specific real world number even vaguely associated with it. Mostly to avoid the "no sense of scale" problems as best I can.
- Location
- Queensland, Australia
@Ithillid So I think it's been made clear that the New Moscow Robotics Works basically helps us by giving us some Capital Goods and also reduces the progress needed to complete major construction projects. But what sort of effect with the Kure Machine Works give in addition to the increase in Capital Goods Production?
- Location
- The Underdark
Kure is aimed directly at the next generation of machine tools. The first real step towards building a lot of the better equipment, is to build a better tool to make it. And Kure is starting to get towards that. It is not all the way, but it is an important step.
- Location
- Queensland, Australia
So basically New Moscow allows us to build factories and other construction projects faster, whereas Kure gives us better results from any factory we build?
... Yeah, I want Kure ASAP.
cryptoam
building an 1980s encrypted protocol
- Location
- in lockdown waiting and bored...
Also enables high end manufacturing(eg fusion rocket aerospikes).
- Location
- Hyperborea
Yeah, that was my intention. It's only slightly exaggerated for comedic effect, don't forget that Hives are factory cities stretching into the atmosphere and the oldest and most venerable Hive Worlds can reach populations of triple digits in billions.
As much of a nightmare that the inaccurate bookkeeping would be, I'm still curious to see how a 40k Planquest would work out.
- Location
- Mobile, Alabama
- Location
- Hyperborea
Bah, those inevitable collapses could all happen to other people while we're just fine.
- Location
- colombia