Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Not free dice, but we do have Tiberium Dice, and Liquid Tib plants.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
So, I'm going to suggest something crazy. Seriously, this is gonna sound crazy.
Let's do absolutely no drones this coming turn, and spend the dice on a phase of shell plants, maybe ablat armor if we don't need all the dice to complete the phase. 'Cause while it's great that we're pumping out new shiny things for the war, we really ought to first make sure our soldiers don't have to worry about running low on arty shells whether they're engaging Nod in the countryside or fighting off Nod attacks on fortress towns. And making sure those troops have plenty of armor to increase their survivability vs laser weapons. And maybe slap out another phase of URLS.
It doesn't matter how many shinies we roll out to the air units, because aircraft do not take or hold ground. Ensuring the ground units on the front lines have what they need to get the job done without worrying about supplies should be our top priority. And working on fixing our naval fuck up with lots of conversions and shipyards, of course.
Let's do absolutely no drones this coming turn, and spend the dice on a phase of shell plants, maybe ablat armor if we don't need all the dice to complete the phase. 'Cause while it's great that we're pumping out new shiny things for the war, we really ought to first make sure our soldiers don't have to worry about running low on arty shells whether they're engaging Nod in the countryside or fighting off Nod attacks on fortress towns. And making sure those troops have plenty of armor to increase their survivability vs laser weapons. And maybe slap out another phase of URLS.
It doesn't matter how many shinies we roll out to the air units, because aircraft do not take or hold ground. Ensuring the ground units on the front lines have what they need to get the job done without worrying about supplies should be our top priority. And working on fixing our naval fuck up with lots of conversions and shipyards, of course.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We still need the Firehawk Drones specifically because even if TALs are the great equalizer we'd all like them to be, Firehawks fitted for CAS are still going to get bounced by the occasional Barghest-bis and it'd be nice if they had half a chance of surviving the experience.
Aircraft don't take or hold ground, but by God do they help.
Particularly by keeping the other side's aircraft off your ground forces.
More specifically, perhaps, the Wingmen are not self-sufficient combatants. They're a force multiplier for human pilots, but only a force multiplier--they can't run missions or even make the kill decision on their own. It does us no good to circle around to Wingmen after we've lost all our good pilots.
Shells, ablative plates, missiles...we can always use more of them, but we have them, and we can scale up production relatively easily. But they don't, by themselves, give us an answer to the Barghest-bis--or for surviving NOD air supremacy.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The Aurora bomber is not optimized for the same kind of bombing mission as the Firehawk.
The Aurora is optimized heavily for speed and altitude at the expense of payload. This makes it good for dropping a handful of guided munitions on a pinpoint target far behind enemy lines after zooming past Nod air defenses. Not so great for smashing up large amounts of Nod armor and fortifications or blanketing an area in munitions when doing operations closer to the front.
The Firehawk's multirole performance (including being effective in air-to-air against anything that isn't a Barghest) and heavy payload for dropping large amounts of kaboom on Nod heads is too valuable for the Air Force to give up. Remember, fighters are not only, and are not even necessarily, focused on the air superiority role; air power is about doing a lot more than just shooting down enemy fighters.
The Apollo excels at shooting down enemy aircraft, but that's all it does, and the Aurora is... basically imagine something like the SR-71 carrying a single bomb. Zoom in, drop, zoom out. For everything else, there's Firehawks. The Air Force might want a new model of fighter, but it's going to need to "scratch the same itches" as the Firehawk in order to be effective at what the Air Force needs to be able to do.
Furthermore
The Firehawk wingman drones are important to reduce casualties among the Firehawk squadrons that we need to continue operating for military reasons. Because the lasers don't really do much to reduce casualties by themselves, because they're not effective until the Firehawks have closed with the Barghests and begun fighting the Barghests at a range that favors the Barghests. The lasers just even up the odds a bit by giving the Firehawks something nastier than a 20mm autocannon to fight back with.
Because while they would kick a lot of ass with Zone Armor, it doesn't reflect a "we're getting slaughtered without it" situation. We've given the Ground Forces enough heavy firepower that they're already doing pretty well against Nod, so they're confident, even if we haven't given them the latest toys.
Something similar is probably why the Navy is at Decent confidence despite their objectively bad situation. Confidence is a measure of "can we get our current job done" as much or more than "are we getting the stuff we need."
This is based on the proposition that Nod air power cannot meaningfully affect Ground Forces' ability to advance, nor can GDI's air power, so having air superiority doesn't make much difference.
I'm not buying it; the Ground Forces' own stated preferences go against that.
[] Navy and Industry
-[] Infrastructure 6/6 105R
-[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 6?) 0/350? 3 dice 60R 5%
-[] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 4) 128/325 3 dice 45R 92%
-[] Heavy Industry 9/5 180R
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 5): 5 dice 100R 99%
-[] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 3): 4 dice 80R 93%
-[] Light And Chemical Industry 5/5 110R
-[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 4): 2 dice 40R 81%
-[] Medical Supplies Factories: 2 dice 40R 95%
-[] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 1) 0/95 1 dice 30R 45%
-[] Agriculture 4/4 50R
-[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 2) 3/300 3 dice 30R 13%
-[] Freeze Dried Food Plants: 1 dice 20R 56%
-[] Tiberium 8/7 140R
-[] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 7): 4 dice +1 admindice 100R 90~%
-[] Intensification of Green Zone Harvesting (Stage 6+7) 46/200 2 dice 30R 82%
-[] Railgun Harvester Factory (Porto) 44/70 1 diсe 10R 100%
-[] Orbital 6/6 100R
-[] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 11+12) 32/170 2 dice 20R 76%
-[] Lunar Heavy Metals Mines (Phase 2) 145/385 4 dice 80R 92%
-[] Services 5/5 85R
-[] Automatic Medical Assistants 0/300 2 dice 40R 0%
-[] Neural Interfaced Operating Theaters 122/160 1 die 20R 100%
-[] Professional Sports Programs 0/250 1 dice 10R 0%
-[] Hallucinogen Development 0/60 1 dice 15R 88%
-[] Military 11/8 200R
-[] Plasma Warhead Factory (Phase 1+2) 53/180 2 dice 20R 83%
-[] Escort Carrier Shipyards (Battleship Yards) 0/120 2 dice 40R 87%
-[] Merchantman Carrier Conversions 150/200 1 dice 20R 92%,
-[] Escort Carrier Shipyards (Nagoya) 0/240 4 dice 80R 92%
-[] Mastodon Heavy Assault Walker Development 0/30 1 dice 10R 100%
-[] Medium Tactical Plasma Weapon Deployment 0/80 1 dice 30R 72%
-[] Bureaucracy 4/4
-[] Security Reviews: 1 dice 90%
-[] Security Reviews
-[]Administrative Assistance 2 dice auto
Free Dice 7/7
R 980/1020
-[] Infrastructure 6/6 105R
-[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 6?) 0/350? 3 dice 60R 5%
-[] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 4) 128/325 3 dice 45R 92%
-[] Heavy Industry 9/5 180R
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 5): 5 dice 100R 99%
-[] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 3): 4 dice 80R 93%
-[] Light And Chemical Industry 5/5 110R
-[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 4): 2 dice 40R 81%
-[] Medical Supplies Factories: 2 dice 40R 95%
-[] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 1) 0/95 1 dice 30R 45%
-[] Agriculture 4/4 50R
-[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 2) 3/300 3 dice 30R 13%
-[] Freeze Dried Food Plants: 1 dice 20R 56%
-[] Tiberium 8/7 140R
-[] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 7): 4 dice +1 admindice 100R 90~%
-[] Intensification of Green Zone Harvesting (Stage 6+7) 46/200 2 dice 30R 82%
-[] Railgun Harvester Factory (Porto) 44/70 1 diсe 10R 100%
-[] Orbital 6/6 100R
-[] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 11+12) 32/170 2 dice 20R 76%
-[] Lunar Heavy Metals Mines (Phase 2) 145/385 4 dice 80R 92%
-[] Services 5/5 85R
-[] Automatic Medical Assistants 0/300 2 dice 40R 0%
-[] Neural Interfaced Operating Theaters 122/160 1 die 20R 100%
-[] Professional Sports Programs 0/250 1 dice 10R 0%
-[] Hallucinogen Development 0/60 1 dice 15R 88%
-[] Military 11/8 200R
-[] Plasma Warhead Factory (Phase 1+2) 53/180 2 dice 20R 83%
-[] Escort Carrier Shipyards (Battleship Yards) 0/120 2 dice 40R 87%
-[] Merchantman Carrier Conversions 150/200 1 dice 20R 92%,
-[] Escort Carrier Shipyards (Nagoya) 0/240 4 dice 80R 92%
-[] Mastodon Heavy Assault Walker Development 0/30 1 dice 10R 100%
-[] Medium Tactical Plasma Weapon Deployment 0/80 1 dice 30R 72%
-[] Bureaucracy 4/4
-[] Security Reviews: 1 dice 90%
-[] Security Reviews
-[]Administrative Assistance 2 dice auto
Free Dice 7/7
R 980/1020
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Probably better to use the Admin die on the Porto factory (~90% chance of completion, no benefit to overflow) and the proper Tib die on Yelow Zone Tiberium Harvesting where the extra +39 bonus will do some good. We don't need the Porto harvester, so there's no reason to spend a die that on average will score about 89 Progress on a project that only needs 11 Progress to complete with an omake bonus.
Bad plan. We are OUT of spare Orbital dice for the Plan; we need to spend literally every single one of our Orbital dice on Plan goals to fulfill our promises. Finishing the last stages of Orbital Cleanup is not one of our promises. We should not be doing it at this time.
My advice is to take one of the dice off Automatic Medical Assistants (which won't complete anyway and your plan already provides plenty of +Health from other sources), and use the 20 R thus freed up to promote the cleanup dice to Lunar Heavy Metals. The extra rollover on Heavy Metals will be entirely to our advantage.
Otherwise, you're just committing us to spending more Free dice in a frantic attempt to finish Enterprise on time, and if you're not willing to spend Free dice on Orbital now, it's probably a bad idea to pre-commit us to having to spend them later whether we like it or not.
I think there are three bad ideas here.
One is putting two dice on the plasma missile factories when this may be overkill. Even if we commit to finishing both factories, rushing both phases isn't necessarily doing the Air Force a lot of favors compared to...
Problem number two, which is putting no investment in the Firehawk drones, which are very specifically the thing the Air Force has been asking for.
And then there's problem number three, which is putting a potentially wasteful fourth die on Nagoya and two dice on the Talons while ignoring the frigates that will be available sooner and are badly needed to provide surface firepower to convoy escorts.
There is no advantage to rush-completing a light carrier yard that won't launch ships for 24 months, while failing to even try and start work on a frigate yard that can launch ships within 12 months.
Perhaps i agree.
I don't see the point in throwing a couple of dice now, into something that can be done with a jerk later. And throwing more than a couple of dice is impossible, the rest is too important.
IMHO it is obvious that free dice should be put into orbit, 5-10 dice at the end of the plan, because now the plan is too dependent on luck to be at least somewhat stable. Against this background, 2 dice now invested in cleaning the orbit will not be a problem.
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[] Navy, Industry and EVA
-[] Infrastructure 6/6 105R
-[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 6?) 0/350? 3 dice 60R 5%
-[] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 4) 128/325 3 dice 45R 92%
-[] Heavy Industry 9/5 180R
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 5): 5 dice 100R 99%
-[] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 3): 4 dice 80R 93%
-[] Light And Chemical Industry 5/5 110R
-[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 4): 2 dice 40R 81%
-[] Medical Supplies Factories: 2 dice 40R 95%
-[] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 1) 0/95 1 dice 30R 45%
-[] Agriculture 4/4 50R
-[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 2) 3/300 3 dice 30R 13%
-[] Freeze Dried Food Plants: 1 dice 20R 56%
-[] Tiberium 8/7 140R
-[] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 7): 5 dice 100R 99%
-[] Intensification of Green Zone Harvesting (Stage 6+7) 46/200 2 dice 30R 82%
-[] Railgun Harvester Factory (Porto) 44/70 1 admindiсe 10R 90%
-[] Orbital 6/6 100R
-[] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 11+12) 32/170 2 dice 20R 76%
-[] Lunar Heavy Metals Mines (Phase 2) 145/385 4 dice 80R 92%
-[] Services 5/5 100R
-[] Advanced Electronic Video Assistant Deployment (Military) 0/200 4 dice 80R 99%
-[] Neural Interfaced Operating Theaters 122/160 1 dice 20R 100%
-[] Military 10/7 200R
-[] Plasma Warhead Factory (Phase 1) 53/90 1 dice 10R 100%
-[] Escort Carrier Shipyards (Battleship Yards) 0/120 2 dice 40R 87%
-[] Merchantman Carrier Conversions 150/200 1 dice 20R 92%,
-[] Shark Class Frigate Shipyards (Melbourne) 0/300 5 dice 100R 93%
-[] Medium Tactical Plasma Weapon Deployment 0/80 1 dice 30R 72%
-[] Bureaucracy 4/4
-[] Security Reviews: 1 dice 90%
-[] Security Reviews
-[]Administrative Assistance 2 dice auto
Free Dice 7/7
R 985/1020
-[] Infrastructure 6/6 105R
-[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 6?) 0/350? 3 dice 60R 5%
-[] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 4) 128/325 3 dice 45R 92%
-[] Heavy Industry 9/5 180R
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 5): 5 dice 100R 99%
-[] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 3): 4 dice 80R 93%
-[] Light And Chemical Industry 5/5 110R
-[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 4): 2 dice 40R 81%
-[] Medical Supplies Factories: 2 dice 40R 95%
-[] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 1) 0/95 1 dice 30R 45%
-[] Agriculture 4/4 50R
-[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 2) 3/300 3 dice 30R 13%
-[] Freeze Dried Food Plants: 1 dice 20R 56%
-[] Tiberium 8/7 140R
-[] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 7): 5 dice 100R 99%
-[] Intensification of Green Zone Harvesting (Stage 6+7) 46/200 2 dice 30R 82%
-[] Railgun Harvester Factory (Porto) 44/70 1 admindiсe 10R 90%
-[] Orbital 6/6 100R
-[] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 11+12) 32/170 2 dice 20R 76%
-[] Lunar Heavy Metals Mines (Phase 2) 145/385 4 dice 80R 92%
-[] Services 5/5 100R
-[] Advanced Electronic Video Assistant Deployment (Military) 0/200 4 dice 80R 99%
-[] Neural Interfaced Operating Theaters 122/160 1 dice 20R 100%
-[] Military 10/7 200R
-[] Plasma Warhead Factory (Phase 1) 53/90 1 dice 10R 100%
-[] Escort Carrier Shipyards (Battleship Yards) 0/120 2 dice 40R 87%
-[] Merchantman Carrier Conversions 150/200 1 dice 20R 92%,
-[] Shark Class Frigate Shipyards (Melbourne) 0/300 5 dice 100R 93%
-[] Medium Tactical Plasma Weapon Deployment 0/80 1 dice 30R 72%
-[] Bureaucracy 4/4
-[] Security Reviews: 1 dice 90%
-[] Security Reviews
-[]Administrative Assistance 2 dice auto
Free Dice 7/7
R 985/1020
Because it takes time to roll out, our pilots are dying a lot and need the drone buffer now, and the war has only just started. Generally, navy and Air Force should be the priority militarily right, with Talons and the like getting thrown the spare dice. Not the other way around. And I'm saying this as someone that really wants the ground force zone armours.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Just to explain, this is information based off of a preview posted on the Discord. And this wasn't the full results/explanation of the Tactical Airborne Laser Deployment, so. Yeah.
- Location
- USA
So the lasers make the playing field more level but do not solve the problem of high casualties.
More dice for the planes!!!
More dice for the planes!!!
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Because each successive die you roll helps you nail down the number of dice you'll need to finish the project. Trying to surge-complete things in a single turn is inefficient and results in heavy dice wastage compared to trying to do them over multiple turns, because it's harder to estimate the number of dice you'll need to finish the project when said project is farther from completion.
It also prevents us from stepping on the same rake over and over again, where each turn we say "this project is too big to do in one turn, let's put if off until next turn to do other important smaller projects" over and over. Because it won't be much (if any) easier for us to find seven dice to be 90% sure of completing the Firehawk drone project in 2060Q4 than it will be in 2060Q3. If we want such a large project done by the end of the year, we shouldn't put off all the dice rolls until the last quarter. We should do some of them now, and some of them later.
When you have a goal that cannot be fulfilled immediately, it is almost always a good idea to invest in making it happen ahead of time rather than counting on future planmakers to feel 'forced' to surge an enormous number of dice all at once to compensate for a lack of past investment.
Yes it will, because Free dice are a precious commodity. Arguing "we're already going to have to spend eight Free dice or whatever, what's two more" is not a good argument, and if repeated could put us in a very bad position in the last quarters of the Plan. If you're not willing to spend Free dice to make orbital cleanup happen now, you shouldn't be willing to force yourself to spend Free dice later to compensate for the fact that you did the orbital cleanup.
Also, I literally just did this math a few days ago and no, no we are not particularly dependent on luck to be "somewhat" stable. Consistent bad luck across the board might force us to spend maybe a few Free dice overall. But it's going to be a lot less than ten... unless we fart around doing a ton of unrelated projects.
Furthermore, Orbital Cleanup is a project of limited present utility.
We've already cleared the orbitals enough for military support satellites, if we even decide to bother with those. And there is no realistic way we're going to be spending Orbital dice on solar power satellites during the current Plan given that we have so much overcommitment- we'd effectively be spending Free dice to make solar power satellites when we could instead spend those same Free dice to make fusion reactors back on Earth, and I very much doubt the solar power satellites are going to be as cost-effective in terms of energy return on investment.
We get a Resource infusion from the cleanup, sure, but the infusion isn't that much more than the cost of doing the cleanup itself, and may even be less, and we're in the late-Plan phase where Resources are fairly plentiful and we don't really need the money that badly. Your plan doesn't even use our whole Resource budget, so why cheap out on an action that gets us Resources at the cost of burning dice we need for something else?
This strikes me as a waste of time; I can't see a reason to do it that justifies diverting dice from other, more urgent projects that we actually committed to doing by the end of 2061.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'll point out one more time, as Ithillid confirmed recently, that power satellites don't provide power for our ground site facilities.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Well yeah, but a lot of it's just basic logic.
The Firehawk's survivability problem boils down to "it is much more vulnerable than the Barghest when air combat closes into beam range,* and its missiles are not sufficient to stop the Barghest from getting into beam range."
While we have made the Firehawk more lethal within beam range using the tactical laser pods, and while this will enable Firehawks to kill more Barghests, it does not in and of itself do much to make the Firehawk more survivable- it just means the Barghest has a higher chance of being clawed down even while it is clawing down Firehawks itself. Hopefully this means each Barghest kills fewer Firehawks before going down itself, which is good. But when all is said and done, the tactical laser isn't a "get them before they get you" weapon against Barghests, and it cannot be used except at closer and therefore riskier ranges against enemy Venoms (which are themselves often armed with lasers).
We have armed the Firehawk with a powerful medium range weapon to supplement its mediocre long range weapon. But the enemy already had a powerful medium range weapon of their own, and had as good or better chances of surviving being fired on by such weapons than our Firehawks do. Therefore, what we have done with the lasers is not enough in the long run, though I am sure it tilts the attritional odds in our favor.
The effectiveness of the lasers will increase greatly when combined with the drones. This could all reasonably be deduced just from the basic facts about the weapons in question.
__________________________
*(beam range is several kilometers- rather longer than the previous "gun range" of fighters with autocannon- but the Barghest has been fighting at beam range rather than gun range for a long time)
If we can't get beamed power for groundside from solar power satellites, then we have even less immediate reason to build them, and therefore even less immediate reason to finish clearing the last stages of Orbital Cleanup. Because the orbital power satellites would then be pure space infrastructure, and we have quite enough on our hands just finishing up the space infrastructure we've already promised to build.
- Location
- Queensland, Australia
I'm pretty sure that our planes are either already getting equipped with ablative plates, or fundamentally unable to equip the current version of ablative armour plates. The problem is that the Barghest uses a plasma weapon I believe and... Well, our ablative plating is effective against modern NOD lasers. Plasma cannons however are powerful enough to burn through the plating and still cause significant damage. Might not be truly dangerous unless it's a critical hit for a ship (if those are equipped with ablat) or a tank unless it's in a critical location. But aircraft are basically all critical locations when we're talking the speed that the Firehawk has to engage at in order to make up for the Barghest's maneuverability supremacy.
Which means even if the Firehawk manages to survive the first hit and not tear itself to shreds due to the sudden loss in aerodynamics before it slows down enough, the Barghest is now faster as well as more maneuverable than the Firehawk so it just swings back around, shoots the Firehawk a second time without any risk and moves on to the still intact remaining aircraft.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Given that jet fighter planes are high-value military vehicles, if it is even possible to protect them with anti-laser ablatives, we are already doing so. They would have been top priority candidates for ablative deployment even in the early days when we didn't have very much of the stuff to go around.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm sorry if this comes off as insulting, but this is ex post facto reasoning. Your post is using retroactive reasoning to fit an outcome you already know about. (Especially because you yourself confim that you've read the result description preview.) It's only "basic logic" if you had the exact information and ideas in Ithillid's head before he wrote them out. The project description does not contain this information, emphasis mine:
It's very possible that Ithillid could have decided on a longer range, or introduced some other element to make these lasers more (or less) effective at protecting the Firehawks. (If anything, I'd say the project description implies a greater effect than the result description says was given.) So while it's possible to have made a reasonable guess that the described outcome was possible, it's impossible to deduce the exact outcome with the certainty that you assert.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The 2060Q1 Results post strongly implied that practical maximum range for the lasers was somewhere in the neighborhood of ten kilometers. Maybe more, but that this was approaching the limits of the possible.
Many air to air missiles are quite a lot longer-ranged than that. And we were explicitly told that our missiles outranged the Barghests' plasma beams.
At the same time, the Barghests' plasma beams must optimistically face the same gunlaying problems that limit our lasers' effective range,* so it is reasonable to deduce that their range is comparable, if not superior.*
Furthermore, we know that the plasma beams have greater striking power than our own lasers.
Therefore, using only information available in the thread, it is feasible to deduce that the lasers' maximum effective range is less than that of our missile weapons, and probably not more than that of the Barghests' plasma weapons. Which in turn suggested that the lasers could not reasonably be a "get Barghests before they get you" weapon, but only an equalizer that gives the Firehawk broadly competitive striking power in short-medium range engagements.
________________________________________
*(Note that the pessimistic case would enable Barghests to lay a plasma beam on target more precisely than our current-generation lasers could possibly achieve. This would, in the pessimistic case, be with dipole magnets at the gun muzzle and outrange our lasers by a considerable margin, potentially. Because they could make fine corrections to the beam's targeting without having to physically move a gun, simply by slightly increasing or decreasing the current in the dipole magnet. You can do that with electromagnets on a charged particle beam; you cannot do it with a laser.)
Here comes a Memeplan.
[] Wild Blue Spending
-[] Infrastructure 6/6 dice 140R +34
-[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 6?) 0/350? 4 dice 80R 52%
-[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 1) 0/200 2 dice 60R 36%
-[] Heavy Industry 5/5 dice 100R +29
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 6) 30/300 3 dice 60R 38%
-[] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 3) 352/600 2 dice 40R 4%
-[] Light and Chemical Industry 5/5 dice 110R +24
-[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 4) 514/640 1 die 20R 14%, 2 dice 40R 81%
-[] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 1) 0/95 1 die 30R 45%
-[] Medical Supplies Factories 129/225 2 dice 40R 95%
-[] Agriculture 4 dice 60R +24
-[] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 3+4) 30/280 2 dice 20R 42%
-[] Poulticeplant Development 0/50 1 die 20R 95%
-[] Freeze Dried Food Plants 126/200 1 die 20R 56%
-[]Tiberium 7 dice 125R +39
-[] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 9) 2/325 4 dice 80R 80%
-[] Intensification of Green Zone Harvesting (Stage 6+7+8?) 46/300 3 dice 45R 72%
-[] Orbital Industry 6/6 dice +26
-[] Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting (Phase 1) 0/160 2 die 40R 58%
-[] Lunar Heavy Metals Mines (Phase 2) 145/385 4 dice 80R 92%
-[] Services 5/5 dice, 95R +27
-[] Automatic Medical Assistants 0/300 3 dice 60R 16%,
-[] Neural Interfaced Operating Theaters 122/160 1 die 20R 100%
-[] Hallucinogen Development 0/60 1 die 15R 88%
-[] Military 15/8 dice, 290R +26
-[] Orca Wingmen Drones 0/550 7 dice 140R 51%,
-[] Firehawk Wingmen Drones 0/450 6 dice 120R 63%
-[] Plasma Warhead Factory (Phase 1+2) 53/180 1 die 10R 15%
-[] Merchantman Carrier Conversions 150/200 1 die 20R 92%
-[] Bureaucracy 4/4 dice +24
-[] Conduct Economic Census DC 100/150/200/250, DC 250 3 dice 42%, 4 dice 86%,
20R overbudget, but I refuse to give up the suborbital shuttles for trains. Don't ask me about what the power situation looks like if both wingman drones complete and we don't get power.
[] Wild Blue Spending
-[] Infrastructure 6/6 dice 140R +34
-[] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 6?) 0/350? 4 dice 80R 52%
-[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 1) 0/200 2 dice 60R 36%
-[] Heavy Industry 5/5 dice 100R +29
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 6) 30/300 3 dice 60R 38%
-[] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 3) 352/600 2 dice 40R 4%
-[] Light and Chemical Industry 5/5 dice 110R +24
-[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 4) 514/640 1 die 20R 14%, 2 dice 40R 81%
-[] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 1) 0/95 1 die 30R 45%
-[] Medical Supplies Factories 129/225 2 dice 40R 95%
-[] Agriculture 4 dice 60R +24
-[] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 3+4) 30/280 2 dice 20R 42%
-[] Poulticeplant Development 0/50 1 die 20R 95%
-[] Freeze Dried Food Plants 126/200 1 die 20R 56%
-[]Tiberium 7 dice 125R +39
-[] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 9) 2/325 4 dice 80R 80%
-[] Intensification of Green Zone Harvesting (Stage 6+7+8?) 46/300 3 dice 45R 72%
-[] Orbital Industry 6/6 dice +26
-[] Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting (Phase 1) 0/160 2 die 40R 58%
-[] Lunar Heavy Metals Mines (Phase 2) 145/385 4 dice 80R 92%
-[] Services 5/5 dice, 95R +27
-[] Automatic Medical Assistants 0/300 3 dice 60R 16%,
-[] Neural Interfaced Operating Theaters 122/160 1 die 20R 100%
-[] Hallucinogen Development 0/60 1 die 15R 88%
-[] Military 15/8 dice, 290R +26
-[] Orca Wingmen Drones 0/550 7 dice 140R 51%,
-[] Firehawk Wingmen Drones 0/450 6 dice 120R 63%
-[] Plasma Warhead Factory (Phase 1+2) 53/180 1 die 10R 15%
-[] Merchantman Carrier Conversions 150/200 1 die 20R 92%
-[] Bureaucracy 4/4 dice +24
-[] Conduct Economic Census DC 100/150/200/250, DC 250 3 dice 42%, 4 dice 86%,
20R overbudget, but I refuse to give up the suborbital shuttles for trains. Don't ask me about what the power situation looks like if both wingman drones complete and we don't get power.
To point out on the missile range thing - most AAMs are longer ranged than that. The AIM-9X Sidewinder short range missile? 1-35km range. Russia's R-60 is ~8km, while France's Magic 2 is ~15km. AIM-120B AMRAAM? ~48km. British ASRAAM? ~50km (for a "Short Range AAM"). AIM-120C? 105+ km. AIM-120D? 160+ km. AIM-54 Phoenix? 190km. AIM-260 JATM? 200+ km. Russian K-100? 200-400km. Russian R-33? ~304km.
Just saying, "exclusive to missile range" is a very large range. And given most air-to-air combat is beyond visual range these days... OTOH, we could Ace Combat this up and missiles only go out 17-18km.
Just saying, "exclusive to missile range" is a very large range. And given most air-to-air combat is beyond visual range these days... OTOH, we could Ace Combat this up and missiles only go out 17-18km.
How would the navy feel about a submersible with carrier capabilities…
I wouldn't say "crazy". I would say "very very bad idea".
Airplanes are not "shiny". If you plan on waging a major war, airplanes are vital.
If Krukov takes control of the skies, our artillery pieces will make lovely targets. Our soldiers will have the opportunity to see how well that armor really works when they're hiding in a ditch getting strafed by Nod aircraft.
Aircraft "do not take or hold ground". So let's not build any artillery, because artillery doesn't take or hold ground. Tanks don't take or hold ground, either, so forget about them. We'll go for infantry, because the holy infantryman is the one who takes and holds ground. In this case, each infantryman will be taking and holding a patch of ground about eight feet long and two and a half feet wide.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Treating this seriously, to properly plan this meme,...
We would want to tip the Nuuk dice over into fusion (solving the problem I'm not asking about). We have sufficient Capital Goods for precious aerial killbots.
The budget problem can be solved by taking a die off Automated Medical Assistants, which does things we probably don't strictly need and is diverting budget from precious precious aerial killbots.
I do want to stump for flipping the Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting dice over to Lunar Heavy Metals and try to focus that down, because we're more likely to get more long-term impact on cost of the other mining options that way, and more short-term boost to our income if the heavy metals mines (which we need to do anyway) are done sooner rather than later. People want Rare Metals, as far as I can determine, because it can be done quickly... but just because it can be done quickly doesn't mean it's better, because it just forces us to do the big mining projects later on, with more of a nailbiter as to "will we finish them in time." And gives them less time to pay for themselves.
It's pretty much official that the general levels of tiberium bullshittery on Earth have drastically reduced radar performance, so radar-guided missiles are unlikely to reach out to those 50-100-200 kilometer ranges achievable in real life.To point out on the missile range thing - most AAMs are longer ranged than that. The AIM-9X Sidewinder short range missile? 1-35km range. Russia's R-60 is ~8km, while France's Magic 2 is ~15km. AIM-120B AMRAAM? ~48km. British ASRAAM? ~50km (for a "Short Range AAM"). AIM-120C? 105+ km. AIM-120D? 160+ km. AIM-54 Phoenix? 190km. AIM-260 JATM? 200+ km. Russian K-100? 200-400km. Russian R-33? ~304km.
Just saying, "exclusive to missile range" is a very large range. And given most air-to-air combat is beyond visual range these days... OTOH, we could Ace Combat this up and missiles only go out 17-18km.
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Catching up...
A set of targets that would cause a trifecta of industrial damage, political repercussions AND stick us with a cleanup bill thats potentially costing three or four digits of Progress, benchmarking off WoQM of Chicago getting T-sharded and costing a thousand points of Progress to clean up, would rocket to the top of Nod's priority lists.
I thought the sabotage risks were too high back when only Mehretu routinely sent covert action teams into Blue Zones, before we got into an active war; those risks have only gone up with other Nod warlords activating sleeper cells and sending in teams of operatives. And with GDI poised to take in millions of refugees, that risk is only going to rise.
I really dont think its a good idea, and I dont think we are desperate enough to take the tisk.
I know others might disagree.
The one suggestion I would make is that it has 20R unused.
Ablat Phase 5 is Very High Priority, 10R/die and 54/200 Progress. 24.85% chance of completion with 2 dice
Shells Phase 6 is 10R/die, and 7/150 Progress and -1 Energy. 27% chance of completion with 2 dice.
Convert the Bureaucracy die to AA and put both AA dice on one of them; they are both Plan Goals, and finishing them allows us to devote a single dice and funding to Consumables and subsequently ignore it.
I'd recommend Ablat because it doesnt cost Energy.
For the future, we might want to consider looking at implementing Tactical Ion Cannons.
For 275 Progress, it might help with Herr Stahl's merry men.
I remember ST being mentioned as 1 corps, but I cant remember where. A couple divisions worth of combat walkers translates to a requirement for maybe fifteen hundred Mastodons at 350 per division plus spares. One factory.
Plasma weapon deployment will undoubtedly cost more, especially combined with light combat lasers.
And narratively, it plain looks better politically if the Treasury has seemingly tried everything to meet its's promises before admitting defeat, than for them to seemingly give up at the first sign of actual difficulty.
This.
Plus, narratively, its likely a lot less politically fraught to request a renegotiation when the need is clear to all the parties involved. Than to walk up to them and make request a change in plan goals based on classified internal Treasury projections and forecasts almost two years in advance.
The Third Tiberium War lasted three years, from 2047 to 2049 end. And I think Kane's Wrath lasted three or six months.
I am expecting this ongoing conflagration to last a minimum of one year and a maximum of two years, with a median expectation of 18 months/6 turns.
Just based on GDI performance over the last three months, six month predictions look implausible.
Maybe if we'd rolled excellently on military operations instead of more or less even.
Targets that are either protected by ion disruptors, or too close to civilians for ion cannon, or too defended or far away for Firehawks.
The Firehawk, on the other hand, is more like the F15/F16/F35.
A multirole fighter that isnt top of the line anymore, but can do both air to air and air to ground missions.
Think of something like the F35, which can allegedly carry up to 11 tons of ordnance, and has a 1100 km combat radius.
Not of everything. Nod does not treat all targets the same.
A set of targets that would cause a trifecta of industrial damage, political repercussions AND stick us with a cleanup bill thats potentially costing three or four digits of Progress, benchmarking off WoQM of Chicago getting T-sharded and costing a thousand points of Progress to clean up, would rocket to the top of Nod's priority lists.
They can prioritize them though.
I thought the sabotage risks were too high back when only Mehretu routinely sent covert action teams into Blue Zones, before we got into an active war; those risks have only gone up with other Nod warlords activating sleeper cells and sending in teams of operatives. And with GDI poised to take in millions of refugees, that risk is only going to rise.
I really dont think its a good idea, and I dont think we are desperate enough to take the tisk.
I know others might disagree.
I'd probably be comfortable voting for this.
The one suggestion I would make is that it has 20R unused.
Ablat Phase 5 is Very High Priority, 10R/die and 54/200 Progress. 24.85% chance of completion with 2 dice
Shells Phase 6 is 10R/die, and 7/150 Progress and -1 Energy. 27% chance of completion with 2 dice.
Convert the Bureaucracy die to AA and put both AA dice on one of them; they are both Plan Goals, and finishing them allows us to devote a single dice and funding to Consumables and subsequently ignore it.
I'd recommend Ablat because it doesnt cost Energy.
For the future, we might want to consider looking at implementing Tactical Ion Cannons.
For 275 Progress, it might help with Herr Stahl's merry men.
The Steel Talons combat wing is the smallest combat branch of the army; smaller than ZOCOM, and the Zoots are only two corps.
I remember ST being mentioned as 1 corps, but I cant remember where. A couple divisions worth of combat walkers translates to a requirement for maybe fifteen hundred Mastodons at 350 per division plus spares. One factory.
Plasma weapon deployment will undoubtedly cost more, especially combined with light combat lasers.
I am unaware of any mechanical incentive for early renegotiation.
And narratively, it plain looks better politically if the Treasury has seemingly tried everything to meet its's promises before admitting defeat, than for them to seemingly give up at the first sign of actual difficulty.
^^^
This.
I dont recall seeing anything about refunds of PS. If you can remember where you saw it, I would appreciate a citation.
Plus, narratively, its likely a lot less politically fraught to request a renegotiation when the need is clear to all the parties involved. Than to walk up to them and make request a change in plan goals based on classified internal Treasury projections and forecasts almost two years in advance.
In this AU?
The Third Tiberium War lasted three years, from 2047 to 2049 end. And I think Kane's Wrath lasted three or six months.
I am expecting this ongoing conflagration to last a minimum of one year and a maximum of two years, with a median expectation of 18 months/6 turns.
Just based on GDI performance over the last three months, six month predictions look implausible.
Maybe if we'd rolled excellently on military operations instead of more or less even.
The Aurora is a theater bomber(>1500km combat radius) like the B1R and late model F111s that carries six tons of bombs/ordnance in an internal bay at >Mach 5. While it can be used tactically, its primary role is to sprint deep behind the enemy lines to perform precision bombing on high value targets like factories and enemy superweapons and the like.
Targets that are either protected by ion disruptors, or too close to civilians for ion cannon, or too defended or far away for Firehawks.
The Firehawk, on the other hand, is more like the F15/F16/F35.
A multirole fighter that isnt top of the line anymore, but can do both air to air and air to ground missions.
Think of something like the F35, which can allegedly carry up to 11 tons of ordnance, and has a 1100 km combat radius.