At least until the shipyards and wingman are all done, yeah. Maybe see if we can squeeze out a zone factory depending on power/cap goods
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Oh hey, @Derpmind , idle suggestion you can take or leave- I'd shift the Bissau railgun factory to Porto (in Portugal). That's because it puts the railgun harvesters adjacent to Reynaldo's territory. If he's truly peaced out and/or joined Kane's inner circle as a supplicant, Steel Vanguard just might roll up his territories entirely on good rolls, so bonuses there could really help us. Whereas I kind of doubt anything we can do in Bissau (West Africa, I believe) will eliminate Mehretu.
In fact, it's one of my big points of discontent with @Derpmind 's plan. By prioritizing fortress towns for Free dice over fusion reactors, she's neglecting one of the big underpinnings of our future, ongoing efforts to build more military Air Force and Navy production lines. We'll have the Energy for this turn, sure, but that's because we started at 232/300 Progress on a phase of fusion plants and she's building on that prior success. With only two dice on fusion reactors, our median Energy ... Well, let's look at her Energy budget.
Ignoring projects that are unlikely to complete, but counting ALL that are LIKELY to complete:
+9 (current surplus) + 16 (Fusion Phase 5) = 25
-4 (Dandong/Bissau) -1 (Medical Supplies) -4 (Apollo Wingmen) -3 (TALs) -6 (Quonset Point) = -18
25-18 = +7 Energy.
...
Which means next turn, if we want to either complete Nuuk Phase 3 or build more military factories, we're going to be looking at yet another round of fusion plants. Indeed, even that might not be enough, because, say, Battleship Yards + Nuuk Phase 3 + [frigate yard] costs -18 Energy all by itself.
Now, my plan, Plan I Refuse To Give Up On Karachi Yet, manages to concentrate four dice on fusion power along with three on Nuuk, whereas @Derpmind 's plan is two-and-two.
What that means in practice, well. She can reasonably expect the dice to land her somewhere in the neighborhood of +159 Progress, putting us at 91/300 or so Progress (assuming neither unusually good nor bad rolls) on Phase 6 of fusion plants. Obviously it probably won't be that exact number, but that's the center of the bell curve, so it's a good starting point for comparison.
To be sure we get the next round of fusion power starting from around that level, she needs four more fusion power dice in 2060Q3. Three dice, starting from around 90/300 Progress, gives you only an 80% chance of completion, which is a pretty high risk of failure to court.
...
So looking forward from the place that @Derpmind 's Plan One Step Forward puts us, I see several plausible options, none of them very appealing.
1) Give up on building power-hungry military factories next turn. Invest existing Energy surplus into Nuuk Phase 3. Rely on +2 Energy from Reykjavik Phase 4 and either tiberium power and/or Nod not managing to blow up any of our power plants to deal with the ensuing drop to near +0 Energy.
2) Crash-build a sixth phase of fusion plants AND Nuuk Phase 3. This costs a minimum of eight dice (four to get good odds on Nuuk, probably, and four to get excellent odds on the fusion plants). Then we can afford to power a few more big military factories that turn... but there's considerable risk of us falling behind anyway, because even rolling four dice we may well wind up with less than 90/300 rollover on the seventh phase of fusion plants in Q4, leaving us right back where we started.
3) Abandon hopes of completing Nuuk Phase 3 and invest all or nearly al Heavy Industry dice into fusion power.
Basically, @Derpmind is taking one-time advantage of our having a lot of power plant rollover to divert the Free dice I spend on fusion reactors to build fortress towns. Which is great if those fortress towns win us the war, but not so great if it means we're having to scramble and stress every turn about ability to afford the power plants to handle next turn's electrical load.
I'd rather not squander that rollover that way; I consider it very important as insurance against rolling poorly on our continuing efforts to build enough Energy supplies to power an ambitious, rapid, very Energy-intensive military expansion.
Capital goods is no problem. Power supply is manageable if we're aggressive about throwing Free dice at Heavy Industry to keep slamming out new power plant phases roughly every turn. We should view this,
In fact, it's one of my big points of discontent with @Derpmind 's plan. By prioritizing fortress towns for Free dice over fusion reactors, she's neglecting one of the big underpinnings of our future, ongoing efforts to build more military Air Force and Navy production lines. We'll have the Energy for this turn, sure, but that's because we started at 232/300 Progress on a phase of fusion plants and she's building on that prior success. With only two dice on fusion reactors, our median Energy ... Well, let's look at her Energy budget.
Ignoring projects that are unlikely to complete, but counting ALL that are LIKELY to complete:
+9 (current surplus) + 16 (Fusion Phase 5) = 25
-4 (Dandong/Bissau) -1 (Medical Supplies) -4 (Apollo Wingmen) -3 (TALs) -6 (Quonset Point) = -18
25-18 = +7 Energy.
...
Which means next turn, if we want to either complete Nuuk Phase 3 or build more military factories, we're going to be looking at yet another round of fusion plants. Indeed, even that might not be enough, because, say, Battleship Yards + Nuuk Phase 3 + [frigate yard] costs -18 Energy all by itself.
Now, my plan, Plan I Refuse To Give Up On Karachi Yet, manages to concentrate four dice on fusion power along with three on Nuuk, whereas @Derpmind 's plan is two-and-two.
What that means in practice, well. She can reasonably expect the dice to land her somewhere in the neighborhood of +159 Progress, putting us at 91/300 or so Progress (assuming neither unusually good nor bad rolls) on Phase 6 of fusion plants. Obviously it probably won't be that exact number, but that's the center of the bell curve, so it's a good starting point for comparison.
To be sure we get the next round of fusion power starting from around that level, she needs four more fusion power dice in 2060Q3. Three dice, starting from around 90/300 Progress, gives you only an 80% chance of completion, which is a pretty high risk of failure to court.
...
So looking forward from the place that @Derpmind 's Plan One Step Forward puts us, I see several plausible options, none of them very appealing.
1) Give up on building power-hungry military factories next turn. Invest existing Energy surplus into Nuuk Phase 3. Rely on +2 Energy from Reykjavik Phase 4 and either tiberium power and/or Nod not managing to blow up any of our power plants to deal with the ensuing drop to near +0 Energy.
2) Crash-build a sixth phase of fusion plants AND Nuuk Phase 3. This costs a minimum of eight dice (four to get good odds on Nuuk, probably, and four to get excellent odds on the fusion plants). Then we can afford to power a few more big military factories that turn... but there's considerable risk of us falling behind anyway, because even rolling four dice we may well wind up with less than 90/300 rollover on the seventh phase of fusion plants in Q4, leaving us right back where we started.
3) Abandon hopes of completing Nuuk Phase 3 and invest all or nearly al Heavy Industry dice into fusion power.
Basically, @Derpmind is taking one-time advantage of our having a lot of power plant rollover to divert the Free dice I spend on fusion reactors to build fortress towns. Which is great if those fortress towns win us the war, but not so great if it means we're having to scramble and stress every turn about ability to afford the power plants to handle next turn's electrical load.
I'd rather not squander that rollover that way; I consider it very important as insurance against rolling poorly on our continuing efforts to build enough Energy supplies to power an ambitious, rapid, very Energy-intensive military expansion.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I guess my point with the longpost about power above is that it depends on the philosophy of the war.
We tell each other we're going to be fighting this war for, oh, 6-8 turns at least, something like that. If so, and if we're committed to Energy-intensive shipyard/aircraft mass production (let alone power armor), then we need to think about what we can do to make such intensive production sustainable in the long run.
It takes almost exactly four Heavy Industry dice, on average, to complete a single phase of fusion power at the moment. If we invest four dice in fusion power per turn and if we have a modest lump of rollover, then we can confidently expect to get
But if we take advantage of the rollover to get away with investing only, say, two dice in fusion power... Well, now we no longer have an insurance policy on future turns, and we have to invest more dice in fusion on future turns to be assured of getting the same results.
...
I agree with Derpmind that fortress towns are desirable and important, and my plan completes a phase of them too. But just slamming out Phase 5 of the fortress towns along with Phase 4, as opposed to only getting halfway to Phase 5, won't win us the war right then and there. Are we going to be able to go the distance and continue to expand our military factories?
I worry that we'll be huffing and puffing harder to keep up the pace, under Derpmind's plan.
...
Of course, from another point of view, I'm the one taking advantage of rollover to invest less dice in fortress towns. She may see it that way. But then the question becomes, which is more critical to the war effort as a whole? Spending free dice at 20 R/die to build more fortress towns, or spending them to build more fusion reactors? I'm not sure this is obvious just from the direct statement that fortress towns support Steel Vanguard.
We tell each other we're going to be fighting this war for, oh, 6-8 turns at least, something like that. If so, and if we're committed to Energy-intensive shipyard/aircraft mass production (let alone power armor), then we need to think about what we can do to make such intensive production sustainable in the long run.
It takes almost exactly four Heavy Industry dice, on average, to complete a single phase of fusion power at the moment. If we invest four dice in fusion power per turn and if we have a modest lump of rollover, then we can confidently expect to get
But if we take advantage of the rollover to get away with investing only, say, two dice in fusion power... Well, now we no longer have an insurance policy on future turns, and we have to invest more dice in fusion on future turns to be assured of getting the same results.
...
I agree with Derpmind that fortress towns are desirable and important, and my plan completes a phase of them too. But just slamming out Phase 5 of the fortress towns along with Phase 4, as opposed to only getting halfway to Phase 5, won't win us the war right then and there. Are we going to be able to go the distance and continue to expand our military factories?
I worry that we'll be huffing and puffing harder to keep up the pace, under Derpmind's plan.
...
Of course, from another point of view, I'm the one taking advantage of rollover to invest less dice in fortress towns. She may see it that way. But then the question becomes, which is more critical to the war effort as a whole? Spending free dice at 20 R/die to build more fortress towns, or spending them to build more fusion reactors? I'm not sure this is obvious just from the direct statement that fortress towns support Steel Vanguard.
- Location
- USA
Superconductors could get us better fusion plants. We could rush that and do the tiberium powercells for a turn.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Ehhh.
Tiberium power is a viable optional addition next turn for @Derpmind 's plan, but we may be able to avoid using it (and note that if we're budgeting Political Support to renegotiate Karachi, we really don't want to squander Political Support on tiberium power if we can help it).
Plus, tiberium power isn't a long-term solution; we can probably eat the -5 PS cost of the first phase, but the days when we could just smile and imagine ourselves having nigh-unlimited PS to pay for mad science shit have kind of evaporated. That isn't coming back, at least until we start work on Columbia and Shala, which we don't have time to do right now.
Superconductors sound great and again, I am specifically going to be stumping for them as soon as we finish Reykjavik Phase 4. But ask yourself, in what sense is that a solution to the problem?
In the short term, dice on Bergen pay back Energy, but not at a very high rate of return. We average something like 75 Progress per Light Industry die, so the 665 Progress to get up to Bergen Phase 3 will cost us roughly nine dice and 270 R... for +7 Energy, total. Compared to fusion power that's not worth it.
In the long term, we can expect superconductor factory establishment to enable research into the next-gen fusion plants... but that's not going to be an instantaneous thing. We have to build at least the first few phases of Bergen and there may well be a time delay for research and development after that. So we still have the problem of sustaining rapid, Energy-hungry military buildup over the immediate next few turns.
...
The superconductor plant at Bergen will be important, and we should start it as soon as practicable. But even if we start it right now, it's not a solution to the immediate Energy crisis in front of us. Which we need to confront by either:
1) Scaling back expansion of our war factories during a major war (bad idea),
2) Abandoning serious efforts to rapidly expand Nuuk up through Phase 4 (bad idea and kicks us in the Plan goal), or
3) Accepting that we're just gonna have to keep investing roughly 3-4 dice per turn into fusion power for the immediate future, even if that means using Free dice to get Nuuk done in a timely manner.
AGGGGHHHH!!! Someone help he's reading my mind! Get out of my head!
This is not mitigation, this is chasing the heady delusion of Karachi on the original timescale. Your argument my have mutated after reading an article or two and considering what will play better in the thread but the name of your plan makes the core intent perfectly clear.
The Navy assessment is very clear that they have no trouble escorting and they do not want the frankin-carriers. Indeed it was yourself who lectured me not too long ago for presuming to know better than the navy when throwing round the idea that one might pitch frigates first for their relative benefits. So I simply don't buy that you're happy to go over their heads now for any greater good than being able to force Karachi on your own terms.
Don't try to frame them as some inevitable necessity that we must all put aside our objections and support because they are not.
[X] Plan One Step Forward
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Look, I'm going with what you told me. They were your words, not mine.
Okay, look, you obviously don't trust me. Or my ulterior motives as a secret Karachi-booster who will get us all in trouble with a disastrous and ill-starred military expedition if listened to.
But conversion carriers?
Take it up with Doruma who argues the necessity.
Or Snowfire who argues the necessity here and here, and expands heavily on the strong non-Karachi argument for conversion carriers.
Or Uju as to the actual scope of the drawbacks.
Or the QM himself, who explained very specifically the reason we're going to take a -PS hit from the conversion carriers, and that it isn't the reason you think, or at least seem to be saying you think.
Rather, it is the unpleasant reality the Navy has been forced to face (going for five years without the escort carriers they've been calling for, and now having to fight a major war without them), and the fact that they are understandably interested in busting the Treasury's gonads a bit over how long we withheld the escort carriers from them, only to come back to the idea now, right as the war starts, without having so much as cut a single piece of metal on the project. Even Navy admirals who think the conversion carriers are necessary or a good idea are going to be busting Treasury's gonads over it, under the circumstances.
We're not going to actually fix the problem by refusing to build the conversion carriers; we're just going to perpetuate the problem longer and harder than would otherwise be the case. And if we try stonewalling the problem, insisting on "just keep using the fleet carriers until the light carriers come off the lines in 2062," then I'm pretty sure the navy will find some other way to thwack us with a political beat-stick, because they're pissed at us for reasons that have nothing to do with the adequacy or inadequacy of the conversion carriers themselves.
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- Location
- USA
While you are correct if we tried to do all of Bergan, that's not what I'm suggesting.
It was made very clear that the hold up was the lack of superconductors.
Right now we aren't making any, so no progress to better energy.
Hypothetically, if we were making ANY superconductors we would eventually get whatever research done and have the amount needed to build the new type of fusion plant.
Let's say building all of Bergan gets us the ability to build the new plants whenever we want. Cool. So logically building a few phases of Bergan might give us a set amount of superconductors per turn and let us build a new phase of the better plants every few turns or such.
I'd like to start building SOME superconductors so we can begin making progress on this because right now we are at zero progress.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Again, I'm going to be stumping for superconductors in Light Industry as soon as I'm not busy stumping for a combination of finishing that huge myomer works we're like three dice from completing, plus the need for bandages and antibiotics for wounded soldiers and vaccines for refugees, of whom we have a great many.
But I think you misunderstand me.
My main point is that I don't think there's second-generation fusion reactor designs all ready to go waiting on us to build up some Bergen. I could be wrong, but I suspect the timeline looks vaguely like:
Turn T: Finish Bergen Phase 2.
Turn T+1: Option to develop second-gen fusion power appears.
Turn T+2: We are smart cookies and finish Bergen Phase 3.
Turn T+3 or so: Second-gen fusion power becomes an option gated behind Bergen Phase 3, oh hey we have that.
Which is great and all, but it doesn't solve the immediate problem of what we're gonna do for power while all of this is going on. Do we put all our shipyard and aircraft factory construction on hold? Do we forget about making progress on Nuuk? Do we pour Free dice into Heavy Industry? Me, I favor the third solution.
I feel like your proposal is important and good but doesn't address the issue I'm talking about, in other words.
- Location
- USA
I'm not suggesting some multiple turn thing. Just one turn. Knock out the first two phases to get production moving. See what develops with whatever amount of superconductors that is.
I'm sure just having any superconductors being made at all will trigger some background timers to new stuff. That's what I want to get moving.
After that full fusion plants all the time. No problem.
- Location
- his hidden lair
That's terrible logic, we need to invest a ton of resources into shipyards now that won't matter for most of the war if we want Karachi. Karachi needs us to crash build ships that wont matter for at least 3 quarters. If we don't do Karachi, that's more plasma missiles, more drone fighters, potentially even Zone Armor rolling out months sooner. Simply put, we don't need to rush frigates or carriers of either stripe if we accept a defensive posture for our navy. I'd still want to convert the battleship yards and make a frigate yard when we can, but it doesn't lock us into a life or death naval struggle where failure potentially means catastrophic ground losses at Karachi from encirclement and lack of supply.
And Simon, don't put words in people's mouths. It doesn't make your argument ring any better, it just makes you look like a colossal asshat. I didn't speak a word about MARVs, but unless you think our position is so overwhelmingly secure that all the resources and dice that are going to be crash building more frigate yards and emergency conversion carriers (and the resulting commitment to build even more yards later) doesn't mean useful things like ablat, plasma missiles, more shells and missiles, drones, and yeah- Zone Armor, don't fall by the wayside? Then we're not even playing the same game and there's no point talking.
No one's talking about MARVs here but you, me? I'd actually like to get the slack for tactical Ion cannons because I suspect it's going to be one of the best solutions to Varyags. I'm advocating that we keep on fighting the battle we're currently winning rather than gamble on a whole new kind of battle. We have the tools we need to win this war without depending on our comparatively weakest branch to sustain the others. We had a chance of winning the naval race, we lost it, now is the time to let our navy take a defensive posture and fight the ground campaign we know we can handle.
If you want to actually talk about all the neat things we'd love to be able to do but Karachi probably won't let us (Tactical ion cannons, getting more Zone Armor into production, rushing Wingdrones faster, etc.) I'm here to talk. If you're just going to strawman my position again with a non-sequitur on MARVs, well I have no desire to proverbially listen to the sound of your voice no matter how much I usually respect your opinion.
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- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
I'd like to see 2 Carrier and 2 Frigate yards done this year so that the Navy doesn't fall apart in 2062.
Other than that, I think we should get some Mastodons rolled out, along with mini ion cannons and railgun munitions. The Steel Talons were running around doing stuff, but they are still at Low confidence.
Air Force I'm unsure about. I think we are generally overdoing things with the big push towards two separate projects here, but we'll see when they are deployed whether it is enough. Hopefully it is because we need about half the remaining budget for the year on Naval assets.
Ground Forces thankfully don't appear to need anything, although I notice that Ablats are still in high demand, so we might look at those.
More URLS and Shell Plants are unfortunately a Plan Goal, but no branch of the Military is screaming for them at the moment, despite there being a war on. Delay those.
I'd stick to 1 Plasma Warhead Factory for the moment, as we need to manage STU usage.
I'd defer until next Plan, the Laser Development options under the Steel Talons for the same reason.
ZOCOM will likely need something, of which the Zone Armor revision are pretty obvious. It looks like Ground Forces Zone Armor will be pushed back into the next Plan, so we don't need these done until late 2061.
If ZOCOM needs a boost earlier, we should definitely look into the Infantry Recon Support Drone. Those are super useful for today's military.
We are still committed to two more phases of OSRCT, so obviously those. But we should likely do Orbital Nuclear Caches asap. I doubt we can budget anything further there.
General stuff: Hard to say. They are all a bit situational, but I expect the Stealth Disruptor would get more use at the moment.
Maybe more RZ MARV Hubs later in the Plan, should this War thing go away.
In short, we should aim for 2x Carrier Yards, 2x Frigate Yards, Mastodons, Railgun Munitions, Orbital Nuclear Caches and more Ablats this year.
We were told one to two years, half a year ago.
So yeah, we could have the new tech ready before we have Bergen ready.
Keep in mind ZOCOM want the Ground Forces Zone Armor done too, because it pushes our lines as a whole further into tib zones and lets ZOCOM strike deeper because of it
I like to do at least a zone armor factory in Q4 to get a small elite force for urban warfare, to be the first infantery on a beach, replace ZOCOM where they can and develop army doctrine and officers familiar with zone armor.
I say Q4 so we can do Zone Armor revision in Q3 and produce the revised suits in Q4.
I say Q4 so we can do Zone Armor revision in Q3 and produce the revised suits in Q4.
Mr. Mica
Capitalism cannot fix Global Warming.
- Location
- Earth
From what I understand, the reason ZoCom wants the ground forces to have zone armor is that ZoCom are the only ones capable of fortifying red zones, where GDI's glacial mining is. Which is preventing Zocom from functioning in their actual role as Tiberium AO Assault. With ground forces in zone armor, ZoCom can go back to doing what they trained for.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Remember that superconductor production at Bergen and building fusion reactors with Heavy Industry dice don't actually compete with each other, except for the Resource budget... and we're converging on the point where it becomes possible to fund average dice at 20 R/die easily, so even that may not be a major problem.
We've been explicitly told that naval weakness and the resulting logistical constraints are the thing most likely to bring our Steel Vanguard offensive to a halt.
We've been repeatedly told to plan for a war that will stretch into at least late 2061 or 2062.
Hell yes it makes a difference whether we build shipyards now. Everything naval that we build for the Navy now except maybe the light carriers is going to have a chance to get stuck in well before the end of the Regency War.
Karachi just underlines and emphasizes this issue because it puts more urgency on our navy's ability to support a specific offensive in a specific place.
We still urgently need hulls, Karachi or no Karachi.
...The Ground Forces are at Extremely High confidence and you think we need to build more ablatives and shells and zone armor to avoid risking defeat?
No, that can't be what you're saying. It sounds like a big part of what you're saying, but it can't be.
The Navy is going to need ships. Badly. If the Regency War starts to turn against us in late 2060 or 2061, we're going to need ships to replace losses and hold the line on the convoy routes. If the Regency War goes well, having more ships is going to be critical to our ability to follow up the weakening of Nod warlords in 2062-63 by actually doing shit, by launching localized offensives to weaken them further. Karachi would be a huge blatant example of doing this on a massive scale, but smaller naval operations like the "rescue raids" that have been discussed, or the Navy managing to stage an amphibious landing in support of the YZ-5a MARV hub when it was threatened by Stahl's subordinates, are also good examples.
...
I'm not saying my current plan is perfect within the context of us having given up entirely on Karachi 2061.
But something like my current plan is still necessary to prosecute the general war effort, unless you are utterly dismissing the role of the Navy in making Steel Vanguard and the overall Regency War war effort sustainable. Which you really, really shouldn't be.
...
The problem is that even with our navy in a defensive posture, we will not be able to just peace out of the naval war entirely. Especially not when Bintang gets serious and when the other warlords start to identify our naval posture as our weakness. The Navy's still going to need ships, for all the same reasons the Air Force needs drones or that the Ground Forces needed shells (which we provided).
If we'd had a shipyard program ticking along for the entire duration of the current Plan I wouldn't be worrying about that. But instead, we frontloaded investment in the Ground Forces (who are now doing really well), and kind of, uh... didn't frontload investment in the navy (who are now not doing so well).
We cannot prosecute an intercontinental war without the state of our navy being at least relevant.
I'd say orbital support satellites or orbital laser constellations are a better bet there. Tactical ion cannons are still ion cannons, and I wouldn't care to bet on Krukov being unable to install an ion disruptor in his aerial cruisers. But that's a detail.
Anyway, my main point was that I honestly can't think of a plausible scenario in which we can fight and win a global war to best effect without heavy investment into the navy. We've spent hundreds of dice on the military over the course of the game; the Ground Forces aren't going to fold up and collapse just because for a few turns they're not getting a big slice of the pie. Nor will the Air Force fold up and collapse just because we only (!) spend, say, 4-5 dice on them per turn.
But the Navy? They may fold up and collapse despite being heavily funded now, simply because the lack of past funding has left them in a weak position.
It really does. ZOCOM's biggest problem isn't that their weapons are crap, it's that there are very few of them and they have to cover a huge amount of territory and operations. Letting them just stop needing to commit manpower to a bunch of far-flung operations that Ground Forces can now take over really would help them concentrate their strength.
Often, being able to concentrate your numbers and reduce the number of commitments scattering the attention of your command echelons is a greater military asset than just having a bigger gun.
I don't consider the revision in Q3 as a prerequisite for trying to do a Zone Armor factory in Q4 (which I'd like to fit in if I think we can, to be clear).
Like, I don't want to build five or six factories without doing the revision first, but one factory... Well, I doubt we'll save that much on a single factory right up front.
Secret? Secret!? Simon are you trying to make me feel crazy? What is the name of your plan?
- Location
- USA
Whoops. That's my bad. I got it stuck in my head it was in heavy industry.
So right now getting it would interfere with getting cap goods...
Ugh... we just have to much to do.
Bergen starts to give capital goods at phase 2:
(Progress 0/95: 30 resources per die) (+1 Energy)
(Progress 0/190: 30 resources per die) (+1 Capital Goods, +2 Energy)
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
I'm going to make a case for developing and deploying the Mastodon within the Regency War.
Going by the update, we've seen that in addition to defending research sites and doing their own research, the Steel Talon like to be at first ones in, the tip of the spear, the pointy end of the sword. They like to hit first, and they can hit hard. The Mastodon would let them hit even harder. If I remember the rules regarding development and deployment, it should come with our fancy new plasma gun, though will be lacking in lasers. Sad, but it'll be so heavily armed otherwise no one will care. Hell, we get the plasma missiles going it should have those too.
Now I know the main objection here. 'We're doing great on the groundside conflict, it's the Airforce and Navy that need hulls and airframes. Why do this?' And that's exactly why. We are, in fact, doing a very solid job on the ground. There's where we seem to have the advantage, and like any advantage, you should lean into it. We don't want to lose momentum there. Build where we're strong to be even stronger. Right now our goals with the Airforce and Navy are to stop falling behind. With the Mastodon, we'll be pushing our wins.
There are other projects we could do, Zone Armor comes to mind, but the Mastodon development and deployment are plan goals as well as a way to shore up the Steel Talons confidence in us. With the Navy pissed, we probably want to make sure we have a military friend.
Going by the update, we've seen that in addition to defending research sites and doing their own research, the Steel Talon like to be at first ones in, the tip of the spear, the pointy end of the sword. They like to hit first, and they can hit hard. The Mastodon would let them hit even harder. If I remember the rules regarding development and deployment, it should come with our fancy new plasma gun, though will be lacking in lasers. Sad, but it'll be so heavily armed otherwise no one will care. Hell, we get the plasma missiles going it should have those too.
Now I know the main objection here. 'We're doing great on the groundside conflict, it's the Airforce and Navy that need hulls and airframes. Why do this?' And that's exactly why. We are, in fact, doing a very solid job on the ground. There's where we seem to have the advantage, and like any advantage, you should lean into it. We don't want to lose momentum there. Build where we're strong to be even stronger. Right now our goals with the Airforce and Navy are to stop falling behind. With the Mastodon, we'll be pushing our wins.
There are other projects we could do, Zone Armor comes to mind, but the Mastodon development and deployment are plan goals as well as a way to shore up the Steel Talons confidence in us. With the Navy pissed, we probably want to make sure we have a military friend.
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Mr. Mica
Capitalism cannot fix Global Warming.
- Location
- Earth
Do we know if it gets developed, and deployed, that deployment would happen while the war is still ongoing?
I think it is a testament to the scope of how grand the crisis of Tiberium Earth is, that we have been sitting on a way to mass produce the holy grail of electrical engineering, and then prioritized other things.
A stage or two of Bergen within the next year or the year after that would be a good idea, I think.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
I guess we can ask @Ithillid if the windup time of Mastodon production is in the range of weeks, months or years.