November 21, 2058 Associated Press
November 21, 2058

AP - GDI officials announced an expansion of the YZ-13 no-fly zone, citing the ability of Apollo interceptors and Firehawk multi-role fighters to reach further into the yellow zone. This follows several weeks of operations by the 358th and 359th Mechanized Infantry Platoons attempting to clear Brotherhood of Nod anti-aircraft installations.

In other news, the newly-formed Diplomatic Corps has notched up some of their first successes, negotiating Tiberium harvesting and spike placement rights with several Forgotten outposts. Diplomatic Corps representatives expressed their thanks to local Ground Force commanders and InOps personnel for providing invaluable support both in reciprocal construction efforts and resolution of several incidents with minimal violence.

As a result of these agreements, Ground Force construction crews have installed multiple power generators and carried out much-needed infrastructure and housing projects. Meanwhile, Tiberium Abatement Corps personnel are currently in the process of calibrating additional Tiberium Spikes, which will ensure that Tiberium in the area is kept away from the surface and provide a slow but steady stream of processed Tiberium products to local GDI installations.

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News from the air-force:
Wingman drones factories are gonna be Wartime Production scaled, to build up a deployable force in six months, not two years. Costs and progress will scale accordingly.
 
That's not terrible. Gets them out fast and they should help about every area.

Plus when we research other drones or small bots it should be easy to retool some of the production space for them. Probably save us some costs later.
 
News from the air-force:
Wingman drones factories are gonna be Wartime Production scaled, to build up a deployable force in six months, not two years. Costs and progress will scale accordingly.
Interesting. Although if the increased costs include things such as more Capital Goods and Energy then it would likely cut into anything else that needed them at this time. That and I wonder if any of the other deployment options have similar changes to accommodate for the shorter timeframe needed to produce things faster, in particular the ships that the Navy always seems to be so short on.
 
Keep in mind that the next stage of URLS is supposed to unlock MLRS development. Depending on how the war develops, we may have reason to do it. Further consumables are also a plan goal.
 
Nitpick:

Do we know whether there's tiberium on Titan? For that matter, we can't really be sure there's none in the gas giants; it just seems extraordinarily unlikely given how hostile the environment is at anything recognizable as a "surface" on Jupiter and so on. Plus, even the Scrin would probably have trouble figuring out how the hell to mine the tiberium down there.

We can probably determine just from the presence/absence of suspicious green glow whether there's any significant tiberium on the Moon, Mars, or Mercury- precisely because those bodies have little or no atmosphere. It may well be that seeded tiberium fails to thrive in the absence of a reasonably dense atmosphere or magnetosphere capable of blocking cosmic ray bombardment.

That would be convenient if true, because it means that fragments of tiberium jettisoned into interplanetary space would be likely to become "sterilized" while on long, looping orbits around the sun, and would likely be incapable of spreading into dangerous tiberium patches if they ever did impact another planet, even assuming they weren't effectively destroyed on impact.
1)To the best of my recollection, SCEDQuest has answered that question by looking around at the other planets.
The only extraterrestrial deposits of Tiberium detected are on Venus.
Tiberium mediated phenomena like ion storms are the sort of thing you'd pick up on orbital scans.

2)The wildcat mining expedition that visited Earth had a mining operation that used wormholes for interstellar shipping of mined Tiberium, built phased matter structures and displayed the ability to manipulate time in field conditions.
I am reasonably certain they could mine gas giants just fine if they wanted to, just on the basis of their displayed capabilities.

I don't disagree we can't solve the problem right now, I just think dismissing the risk of it being a problem is unnecessarily dangerous.

You've got to be kidding me if you're dismissing 16% of a planet's surface area as a non factor when it could be the results of a few decades.

Likewise the absence of being seeded is not evidence they couldn't. Tiberium mutates, it has different strains. For all we know the Scrin were cultivating specific strains for specific purposes. If you've got to do the largest construction project in the history of earth for effective mining infrastructure, why wouldn't you pick the environment suited for something like Blue Tib? Earth was evidently going to be system wide mining hub, there could be a number of reasons to focus on developing that first.

Likewise, your refutations are useless. The ocean gets about as low as 1 degree Celsius, Titan sits at -179 degrees celsius. Mercury and Mars essentially don't have atmospheres. Jupiter literally lacks a rocky crust to mine. The one actually deduction we can make is that Tiberium likely requires or is deliberated seeded into pressurized environments on rocky planets. A more energetic environment is presumably ideal.

The ocean floor is certainly pressurized, and the average temperature of Earth is only 14 degrees Celsius off from the depths of the ocean. Its not actually a terribly extreme environment relatively speaking. It might spread more slowly down there, spread is one potential factor, for all we know liquid Tiberium can form more easily at those pressures, or it's found and spreading all along the geothermal vents down there. The inevitable liquid tib volcanoes that will form without the TCN could very well first emerge from the Ring of Fire for all we know. There's too much we don't know, and given Tiberium is pretty much capable of pulling off every single disaster movie Hollywood has made combined- the solution should be to investigate the damn problem, not just assume we'll probably be fine and make asses of us all.
1) We have some quest information that Venus was not seeded by the liquid Tiberium explosion in TibWar3; it was always implausible that Venus would get seeded but the moon would not, but its nice to have even semi-canon confirmation.
Since the liquid T explosion was not responsible, Occam's razor suggests it was seeded at the same time Earth was.

Earth has been the focus of sustained abatement effort by GDI for decades, and its Tib deposits have been mined by both GDI and Nod. Yet Red Zones constitute over 50% of the world's surface, and Yellow Zones another 30%. In the original timeline, we'd quite literally have Tiberium eating the Blue Zones by 2062.

By contrast, Venus has had zero abatement effort. Zero mining.
And yet it has less planetary Tiberium than Earth does, and preliminary estimates point at a rate of spread thats significantly less than terrestrial Tiberium, even after abatement.

That points to high-pressure Venus being less hospitable a planetary environment for crystalline Tiberium than Earth.
Correlate that with the terrestrial conditions that we know are bad for Tiberium spread on Earth, which include temperate/arctic climes where it gets cold and daylight hours drop compared to the tropics.

For reference, the surface pressure of Venus is roughly the same pressure as a depth of 900m underwater on Earth.

2)Tiberium does not transmute rock alone. At least not in this quest.

3)Blue Tiberium is as far as we know, a bogstandard crystalline Tiberium variant.
One that yields more resources when mined, but why that is has never been said. It could just be that our refining methods are better at handling blue Tib. No way of knowing OOC.

Nevertheless, there is no indication at present that Tiberium strains are optimized for different planets.

4)Liquid Tiberium is explicitly characterized as an endstage form of Tiberium.

It has to be able to thrive at the pressures in the planetary crust, but the Scrin themselves who know the thing expected it to only become a significant phenomenon well after most of the planet had gone green. Hence their treating a liquid T explosion as the equivalent of a dinner bell.


To be pedantic, it was that the consequences of failing a Security Review is unlikely to be particularly significant, not the consequences for not doing one.
Fair.

Personally, I Want the Security reviews, ESpecially since we are in the middle of a war, since this would be the main time that deep sleeper Agents would be acting up. Non-wartime i wouldnt be that worried about dealying a turn or two for other needs, But since it is wartime im very worried about infiltration.
We have InOps for that. They have a routine budget.

Remember, we run the Treasury, not the entirety of GDI. The middle of a war is arguably the last time we should be spending additional effort and resources on security sweeps instead of aggressively attempting to increase the economic throughput to our combatant forces.

IMO.
I mean yeah, I'm anticipating huge Capital Goods boosts in 2060-61.

It's just that it's kind of a waste of time to do a vein mine in, say, 2061Q2 when we're only gonna get the +20 RpT income for like two turns, after which reallocation hits and we only get +7 RpT from it. When we could instead do something that provides more mitigation and is enduring.

Which do you want more, to spend -1 Capital Goods on a vein mine and get full benefit for 2-3 turns, or to spend the same -1 Capital Goods on a vein mine and get the full benefit for 14-15 turns?
Its not wasted though.
It goes out of our direct control and into the rest of the economy, from health to the military, but its not wasted.
 
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By contrast, Venus has had zero abatement effort. Zero mining.
And yet it has less planetary Tiberium than Earth does, and preliminary estimates point at a rate of spread thats significantly less than terrestrial Tiberium, even after abatement.

That points to high-pressure Venus being less hospitable a planetary environment for crystalline Tiberium than Earth.
Correlate that with the terrestrial conditions that we know are bad for Tiberium spread on Earth, which include temperate/arctic climes where it gets cold and daylight hours drop compared to the tropics.

I think your forgetting that Tiberium was intentionally spread on Earth. For a better comparrison we should look at the Italian Red Zone. Without Tiberium being intentionally spread your looking at what? 15/20% Red Zone. There would be no red zone in the Americas, Australia or China and the African red zone would be significantly smaller.

And while there has been abatement efforts they haven't always been particuarly effective. Case and point, the blue zones would be in the process of disappearing right now if GDI had gone "stead as she goes".
 
I think your forgetting that Tiberium was intentionally spread on Earth. For a better comparrison we should look at the Italian Red Zone. Without Tiberium being intentionally spread your looking at what? 15/20% Red Zone. There would be no red zone in the Americas, Australia or China and the African red zone would be significantly smaller.

And while there has been abatement efforts they haven't always been particuarly effective. Case and point, the blue zones would be in the process of disappearing right now if GDI had gone "stead as she goes".
Tiberium was intentionally spread, making it impossible to contain. But even when it was being spread, it was being mined, reducing the amount left free to multiply. And at least as much effort has been thrown at attempting to roll back the spread of Tiberium as was spent on deliberately enabling it.

And yet, canonically, Blue Zones literally had above-Earth glaciers by 2062 in the original timeline.
That went from "we're hoping to have Tiberium eliminated by 2100" at the planning conference just before the start of TibWar 3 in 2047 to "Tiberium is eating us alive" in 2062. Roughly a decade and half.

Contrast with Venus, which has received neither help nor hindrance for almost sixty years, and is barely up to 16%.
 
Venus doesn't have a biosphere to do things like produce and project tiberium spores into the wind. Earth's contamination would likely be substantially greater than Venus in the same span of time.

Still less than it is now, though. Probably.
 
I've been thinking about a couple of things in regards to the last few turns, so in no particular order:

On the war: It's a shame we only managed about 50/50 in regards to battles this turn, especially as we launched what is probably the closest thing to a surprise attack on a global scale we're likely to see. At least most of the fighting happened in the yellow zones, so we likely suffered minimal damage. Shame about the people who live in the zones though...

Also, Krukov losing his wunderwaffen will never not be funny and I wholeheartedly support Space Force bragging about this until the end of time (yarr!).

On portals: This will be great, eventually. It will take a lot of time for the really big effects to come into play, but micro-portals for instantaneous communications is pretty damn transformative as an early implementation. Also, there might be some use for power production as well when combined with the upcoming electrolasers? Why use power-lines when you can send a laser beam through a wormhole instead? (yes, cost, proven reliable tech etc. etc. I know). Another benefit from portals could be figuring out how to interfere with portal formation, so you can limit the tactical and strategic mobility of a force who makes extensive use of them (i.e. the Scrin). Also portals might allow us to access the Threshold Tower eventually?

On Haptic interfaces: While it doesn't seem like the most impressive tech, I think I found one potential synergy that no-one has mentioned yet: T-Glass. Note the following:

Beyond that, it has begun replacing other forms of glass in many military applications, most notably for harvesters, which need the wide angle views, and don't need HUD displays on the glass itself, which the vibrations from the zrbite tends to disrupt.

Haptic interfaces, especially in combination with Neurohelemts and such should allow us to use T-Glass in even more places.

On Isolinear Chips and Boston: I don't think Boston 5 will be primarily dedicated to Isolinear chips even if we have developed them before we start building it. Rather I think it will be dedicated to advancing "normal" chip technology and/or to try to replicate Isolinear chips without using STU's (which I assume Iso-chips will need). Why do I think so? Well, T-Glass Foundries 2 contained the following lines:

However, at least until fundamental changes happen in the supply of STUs, no more manufacturing capacity will be added. Currently, there are hundreds of other uses for STUs, many of which are even more revolutionary, as much as that would blow the mind of the treasury of the 2020s or 2030s.

GDI, for good reason IMO, is very careful with it's limited supply of STUs and for the time being seem likely to be conservative with their use. I think Iso-chips are likely to remain a specialist good with only limited use outside of research, AI and specific military applications.

On resorces: While it's absolutely a good idea (from the treasury's point of view at least) to focus on abatement at the end of the plan, I would not mind some extra cash at the end. If we can squirrel away some resources in the turns before reallocation we can get out of the income pit faster and/or do at least some projects not directly related to number go up in the early turns of the new plan. Nod is unlikely to take a break to let us mash the income button, especially if the war is still ongoing. Storing away maybe a hundred, two hundred if we're feeling ambitious would help a lot, especially if we drop the treasury's share down to 25% (which we should do IMO). More harvesting now will help that. We might also be getting more phases of seafloor mining in the coming turns as our Navy grows and can reliably patrol more of the oceans, so I don't think we will be running out of worthwhile income generating projects anytime soon, if that's even a concern.

On our agri dice: While I support the current efforts towards freeze-drying I think we should look into Ranching Domes soon. We've gotten a couple of signals about other projects that could benefit from them (pets and tissue replacements) and in general it seems like something that could help both biotech research (Genetic engineering and maybe visceroids?) and medicine/healthcare. It might also open up for new and exciting animals. Could we make a sheep with spidercotton fleece? Additionally, doing something as inefficient as raising cattle during war is a bit of an economic flex, which while pointless, is fun. Also, since we took their consoles, people might appreciate some beef instead?
 
1)To the best of my recollection, SCEDQuest has answered that question by looking around at the other planets.
The only extraterrestrial deposits of Tiberium detected are on Venus.
Tiberium mediated phenomena like ion storms are the sort of thing you'd pick up on orbital scans.

2)The wildcat mining expedition that visited Earth had a mining operation that used wormholes for interstellar shipping of mined Tiberium, built phased matter structures and displayed the ability to manipulate time in field conditions.
I am reasonably certain they could mine gas giants just fine if they wanted to, just on the basis of their displayed capabilities.
1) I can't comment as such, except to note that things like ion storms could look very different on a planet whose atmospheric chemistry, temperature, and pressure were different.

2) Maybe. Then again, remember that the Visitor operation was entirely and decisively interrupted by a bunch of primitives lobbing crude railgun slugs at them. It's entirely possible that conditions at the bottom of a gas giant's atmosphere (if there even is a bottom solid enough to support tiberium growth) would be so bad that Visitor construction units couldn't function. Remember that while the Visitors had things like temporal stasis, interstellar wormholes, and phased structures, it took them considerable work to build the infrastructure for that.

1) We have some quest information that Venus was not seeded by the liquid Tiberium explosion in TibWar3; it was always implausible that Venus would get seeded but the moon would not, but its nice to have even semi-canon confirmation.
Since the liquid T explosion was not responsible, Occam's razor suggests it was seeded at the same time Earth was.
A fair point- though I should note that there was always the alternate possible explanation that the Temple Prime explosion 'seeded' the Moon with tiberium but those seeds did not grow, while the 'seeds' on Venus did grow. Or the possible explanation that Venus was seeded deliberately by humans some time after Earth was seeded.

That points to high-pressure Venus being less hospitable a planetary environment for crystalline Tiberium than Earth.
Correlate that with the terrestrial conditions that we know are bad for Tiberium spread on Earth, which include temperate/arctic climes where it gets cold and daylight hours drop compared to the tropics.

For reference, the surface pressure of Venus is roughly the same pressure as a depth of 900m underwater on Earth.
The Venusian atmosphere is also at a temperature of several hundred degrees, which may be too hot for optimal tiberium growth (tiberium may have both minimum and maximum temperature reequirements; most things do). The Venusian atmosphere is also full of highly corrosive sulfuric acid, which again may not be ideal for the growth of tiberium.

Tiberium may not grow as well at the bottom of the ocean as it does on land, but it may well grow better at the bottom of the ocean than it does on the surface of Venus, even if the pressure is higher. If it grew even a fraction as well, we'd still have a problem at the bottom of the ocean, because it is overwhelmingly likely that there have been numerous instances of tiberium crystals being "seeded" on the seabed.

Its not wasted though.
It goes out of our direct control and into the rest of the economy, from health to the military, but its not wasted.
No need for grandstanding.

Extra resource income that we predictably swiftly lose to reallocation is not wasted.

Extra mitigation is also not wasted.

Either of these things benefits the entire population of GDI.

It's just more institutionally beneficial to the Treasury, in particular, to pivot from doing most of its income expansion in the front half of a Four Year Plan and most of its mitigation expansion in the back half. Options like glacier and vein mines (high-resource, low-mitigation) make more sense at the front end.
 
Earth has been the focus of sustained abatement effort by GDI for decades, and its Tib deposits have been mined by both GDI and Nod. Yet Red Zones constitute over 50% of the world's surface, and Yellow Zones another 30%. In the original timeline, we'd quite literally have Tiberium eating the Blue Zones by 2062.

By contrast, Venus has had zero abatement effort. Zero mining.
And yet it has less planetary Tiberium than Earth does, and preliminary estimates point at a rate of spread thats significantly less than terrestrial Tiberium, even after abatement.
One thing not to forget is that Red Zones are measured in percentages of land surface area. Land makes up roughly 30% of the Earths surface, meaning Red Zones constitute roughly 15% of the total surface. Who knows what underwater surfaces look like. The Venus field covers roughly 16% of the slightly smaller Veneran surface.

Have we actually done the tests/observations of the Venusian Tiberium to know when it was first seeded?
There is a satellite array to monitor its growth. From that data you can extrapolate back and forward. The field originated somewhere between 1970-2030, if it was not composed of multiple seed fields that grew together.

@BOTcommander I've gotta ask, since we've been wanting to know for three turns now: How much is the Craterscope going to cost?
Developments + construction of the facility + production of the components should cost you around 1k Capital. This can be more or less if the dice roll worse or better or if you decide to add more optional components.
 
On resorces: While it's absolutely a good idea (from the treasury's point of view at least) to focus on abatement at the end of the plan, I would not mind some extra cash at the end. If we can squirrel away some resources in the turns before reallocation we can get out of the income pit faster and/or do at least some projects not directly related to number go up in the early turns of the new plan. Nod is unlikely to take a break to let us mash the income button, especially if the war is still ongoing. Storing away maybe a hundred, two hundred if we're feeling ambitious would help a lot, especially if we drop the treasury's share down to 25% (which we should do IMO).
Given that Treasury has expanded the overall economy by 50% or more during the Third Four Year Plan, I think Treasury continuing to take a large cut is justified and will not cause significant harm.

On our agri dice: While I support the current efforts towards freeze-drying I think we should look into Ranching Domes soon. We've gotten a couple of signals about other projects that could benefit from them (pets and tissue replacements) and in general it seems like something that could help both biotech research (Genetic engineering and maybe visceroids?) and medicine/healthcare. It might also open up for new and exciting animals. Could we make a sheep with spidercotton fleece? Additionally, doing something as inefficient as raising cattle during war is a bit of an economic flex, which while pointless, is fun. Also, since we took their consoles, people might appreciate some beef instead?
I don't disagree- but it's one of the next wave of projects after we're confident we've got the problems of "make sure we can even feed the refugee wave" and "meet the Stored Food plan target."
 
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