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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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[ ] Plan: Gib Clay and Crystals
-[ ] Taiwan
--[ ] Lobby (-5 PS)
-[ ] Karachi Trade Route
--[ ] Campaign (-15 PS)
-[ ] Technological Transfers
--[ ] Lobby (-5 PS) (-2 Mad Science)
-[ ] Tiberium Abatement Coordination
--[ ] Lobby (-10 PS)

Tries to peacefully get the land we can use to secure our security and logistics for the next war, helps with the Green Death Rock, and satisfies Seo's mad science quota.
Leaves the meeting place and Trade Policy decisions to the diplomats.
 
MightbeaMimic said:
The problem there is that if fighting starts (For example if it turns out we have to fight for Karachi) all those teams we're sending to do abatement are essentially dead
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You aren't wrong, but my read on it is that they would be the people most likely to just be escorted safely out of the territory if fighting starts.

They seem to really appreciate tiberium abatement in India. As long as those workers don't start attacks themselves I'd imagine they would be good.
 
And Honestly as long as it doesnt seem we are interested in the joint abatement, the diplomates can more easily spin that into a concession, instead of a want. (We are helping with abatement in their areas, and we are putting valuable personal & equipment under their care (hostages), which is a card for them if conflict majorly breaks out again.)
(For Support from the wording of the choice, "especially as many of the areas that it would be occurring in are Brotherhood backyards, where abatement teams would get cut off and destroyed in case of a resumption of hostilities.")
 
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MightbeaMimic said:
The problem there is that if fighting starts (For example if it turns out we have to fight for Karachi) all those teams we're sending to do abatement are essentially dead
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That will really depend on the situation and the goodwill of the relevant warlord.
If the warlord is happy with the deal, they aren't going to immediately ruin any chances of a similar deal being made in future, just because another warlord got trigger-happy.
 
Ithillid said:
[ ] Tiberium Abatement Coordination
While the Brotherhood of Nod is an opponent, Tiberium is a common enemy of mankind, at least for the sane portions of it. While actively coordinating on projects to abate tiberium are likely to be extremely controversial, especially as many of the areas that it would be occurring in are Brotherhood backyards, where abatement teams would get cut off and destroyed in case of a resumption of hostilities.
-[ ] Propose (-5 PS)
-[ ] Lobby (-10 PS)
-[ ] Campaign (-20 PS)
-[ ] Insist (-30 PS)
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Big NO.

While I love the idea of more Abatement for obviously reasons to save the Earth, that fact that it would mostly happen in Nod territory makes this a ridiculously risky proposition for the GDI Abatement teams that would have to work there, for gains that would mostly benefit the Nod no less. There's plenty of land near GDI that could use the effort instead.

Also, losses by a renege in the agreement after work has been done would ensure they keep the benefit of more land reclaimed while not needing to care about consequences, unlike simple trade agreements that both sides would only need to handle the exchange of limited amount of goods per trade, which would be much less risky if they reneged on any singular trade instance.
 
bigking321 said:
You aren't wrong, but my read on it is that they would be the people most likely to just be escorted safely out of the territory if fighting starts.

They seem to really appreciate tiberium abatement in India. As long as those workers don't start attacks themselves I'd imagine they would be good.
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HousePet said:
That will really depend on the situation and the goodwill of the relevant warlord.
If the warlord is happy with the deal, they aren't going to immediately ruin any chances of a similar deal being made in future, just because another warlord got trigger-happy.
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When the text explicitly states
Ithillid said:
many of the areas that it would be occurring in are Brotherhood backyards, where abatement teams would get cut off and destroyed in case of a resumption of hostilities
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I figure it's reasonable to assume there's a high chance of them ending up dead
At best they'd be taken prisoner and maybe exchanged later in a prisoner exchange
 
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Yeah, a lot of this is about GDI trusting NOD to not murder their abatement teams or abuse the humanitarian corridors to, I don't know, nuke us. I am not against negotiations but cards on the table that's what this is.
 
Okay, here's my plans


Plan: Minimalist as fuck
[ ] Technological Transfers
The Brotherhood still has many secrets up their sleeves. While extracting them is likely to be difficult, especially with the Brotherhood's own obscurantism in the way of making sure that the systems work properly. Extorting technology would be a bit of a grab bag, with little way to know for sure the value of what is being transferred until after the deal is finalized.
-[ ] Lobby (-5 PS) (-2 Mad Science)


Basically, we don't ask for Karachi because we're prepared to take it anyway and I don't like the idea of having to give major concessions to Nod
We also don't get involved with the trade routes because that's up to the diplomats to decide. It'll probably IMO end up with Limited Navigation in that case which I'm fine with. Tech transfers because we have to at least ask for it. I don't care about the Mad Science meter going down because I'm perfectly happy with doing more Mad Science

And

Plan: Military approved
[ ] Technological Transfers
The Brotherhood still has many secrets up their sleeves. While extracting them is likely to be difficult, especially with the Brotherhood's own obscurantism in the way of making sure that the systems work properly. Extorting technology would be a bit of a grab bag, with little way to know for sure the value of what is being transferred until after the deal is finalized.
-[ ] Lobby (-5 PS) (-2 Mad Science)

[ ] Verified Humanitarian Supplies Only
Shifting the needle further from what had been agreed upon, the idea of allowing the Initiative to investigate carried supplies and pilot the ships while in waters within a reasonable distance of an Initiative coastline, would maximize security, but only at the cost of jeopardizing the deal entirely.
-[ ] Propose (-15 PS)

Basically the same but we propose reducing what we give based on the recommendations of our military advisors. Honestly I'd rather go for the first plan but hey, this is an option
 
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One Autumn Leaf said:
Yeah, a lot of this is about GDI trusting NOD to not murder their abatement teams or abuse the humanitarian corridors to, I don't know, nuke us. I am not against negotiations but cards on the table that's what this is.
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Yeah totally. So the question becomes does the GDI attempt even basic good faith diplomacy. I say that right now there is benefits to that risk. Technology exchange, Tiberium abaitment, restricted navigation, even secured corridors are all elements that if worked well could lead to a great boon in the future.

Basically, this is the GDI equivalent of putting the needs of the many over the needs of the few.
 
HeruKane said:
Yeah totally. So the question becomes does the GDI attempt even basic good faith diplomacy. I say that right now there is benefits to that risk. Technology exchange, Tiberium abaitment, restricted navigation, even secured corridors are all elements that if worked well could lead to a great boon in the future.

Basically, this is the GDI equivalent of putting the needs of the many over the needs of the few.
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Eh, not really.
Remember that there are still diplomats who'll be doing all the actual work. We're unlikely to walk away having given Nod a great deal and gotten nothing in return.
This is just saying what we (the treasury) would put our weight behind in regards to the negotiations. If we hand them secured corridors or something like that our diplomats will extract concessions for it. They won't just get it for free
Basically this isn't "putting the needs of the many over the needs of the few." it's saying what we're fine giving so we can take an equivalent amount
 
Rakuhn said:
Which is why the military doesn't want any of those entanglements.
And that's why IF wants to take as much as possible, and then to break the deal later. They win coming (the GDI is strengthened), and going (the GDI backstabs Nod, the conflict with Nod goes hot worldwide, and Nod is much less willing to make peace for the next generation).
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Actually, IF wants to take as much as possible, probably looking towards 'Taiwan, Karachi, full as possible tech transfers, highly restricted humanitarian corridors under effective control of GDI, tell Nod to pipe down and suck it'. They do not actually intent to backstab Nod.
They fully expect, with quite a sizable body of history behind it, that Nod will either not agree, which is no loss in their eyes, or agree and break it anywhere between 5 minutes to 5 years later, but GDI will still have the advantage in such an event anyway.

HousePet said:
I am very confused by the location voting options.
Are we required to make a location suggestion, only to be instantly rebuked by the Diplo Corp to the tune of 15 PS?
I don't see any reason to give any opinions at all for location.

For Trade Policy, I'd just Propose the Limited Navigation option. If Nod manages to push it out to Territorial Waters instead, that isn't a huge loss.
For Territorial Concessions, Taiwan is nice, but we really want the Karachi land route. But I'm not sure we should Insist upon it, as Insist means that the whole deal falls through if Nod refuses.
For Other Items, the only thing I'm really interested in spending PS on is to Lobby for Tiberium Abatement Coordination.
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All options are 'how much PS does Seo burn asking for this.
If Seo is asking for a specific location, he is going to burn a fair bit of PS doing so, and the more he tries to weigh in, the more it costs. This is a Diplomatic Corp job, Seo, not a Treasury job.
 
If we try to negotiate for Karachi but can't get a deal, and then we attack to get Karachi anyway, it will make us look untrustworthy, and might scuttle any deal we do get.

If we don't include Karachi in the negotiations, then us attacking to get it is just business as usual and won't be viewed as a backstab.
 
Zanfib said:
If we try to negotiate for Karachi but can't get a deal, and then we attack to get Karachi anyway, it will make us look untrustworthy, and might scuttle any deal we do get.

If we don't include Karachi in the negotiations, then us attacking to get it is just business as usual and won't be viewed as a backstab.
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Pretty sure thats actually how most conflicts started, If only for a casus belli. 'You will give up this land, and we'll give you a pitance in return/Not go to war... No, Alright we declare war then'. For the excuse of the other side being unreasonable, and being able to tell people, we did try and get it without war.
 
MightbeaMimic said:
When the text explicitly states
I figure it's reasonable to assume there's a high chance of them ending up dead
At best they'd be taken prisoner and maybe exchanged later in a prisoner exchange
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The text appears to indicate that not all coordination is about Nod controlled tib fields though. It just says that abatement in Nod's backyard will be controversial.
So if we did get some coordination, we might be able to push our yellow zone harvesting into areas that Nod doesn't control, as we'd know where they consider that line to be. And no nukes need to be rolled.
 
Keep in mind we aren't negotiating with all of Nod. Just three(I think) warlords.

Only one of which has been directly antagonistic towards us in the navy warlord.

The other two didn't really participate in the recent war that much. Except for supplying genetic monsters and such.

If Kane has any say in them negotiating he would probably go for whatever gets them information, time to rebuild, and technology. He would probably happily agree to letting us help with abatement for obvious reasons.
 
[ ] Plan It's Good to Spend Political Support
-[ ] Seoul
--[ ] Propose (-15 PS)
-[ ] Limited Navigation
--[ ] Propose (-15 PS)
-[ ] Taiwan
--[ ] Propose (-0 PS)
-[ ] Karachi Trade Route
--[ ] Campaign (-15 PS)
-[ ] Technological Transfers
--[ ] Campaign (-15 PS)
-[ ] Tiberium Abatement Coordination
--[ ] Propose (-5 PS)

A total cost of 65 political support. There's nothing on this list I'm willing to sink negotiations over, but this be my list. Seoul to strengthen GDI's position. Limited navigation so we have something there. Taiwan because it costs nothing and can be given up to make Karachi more reasonable. I'd like to go harder on Tech Transfers, but again, not willing to sink negotiations over it. And Tiberium Abatement Coordination because I do believe it should be on the table, even if I don't expect it to go anywhere.
 
You won't sink negotiations over it, this is merely expressing what the Treasury thinks is important and how hard the Treasury is willing to press the Diplomatic Corps.

Propose is 'say, this is something we are interested in, put it on the table if you think it's a good idea'.
Lobby is 'we think this is important, we want you to put this on the table as an issue'.
Campaign is 'we are very interested in making this happen, and will support you compromising on other issues if you have to'.
Insist is 'this is such an overriding concern, you should not even bother talking to us if you cannot make this happen'.
 
[X]Plan Seo Goes to India v1.1
-[X]Where to Meet 15 PS
--[X] Seoul
---[X] Propose (-15 PS)
-[X]Trade Policy 35 PS
--[X] Establishment of Territorial Waters
---[X] Campaign (-35 PS)
-[X]Territorial Concessions 25 PS
--[X] Karachi Trade Route
---[X] Insist (-25 PS)
-[X]Other Items 10 PS
--[X] Technological Transfers
----[X] Lobby (-5 PS) (-2 Mad Science)
--[X] Military Concessions
---[X] Lobby (-0 PS)
--[X] Tiberium Abatement Coordination
---[X] Propose (-5 PS)

85/109 PS, -2 MS

[X]Plan Yao's Damocles
-[X]Where to Meet 15 PS
--[X] Shanghai
---[X] Propose (-15 PS)
-[X]Trade Policy 15 PS
--[X] Limited Navigation
---[X] Propose (-15 PS)
-[X]Territorial Concessions 35 PS
--[X] Taiwan
---[X] Campaign (-15 PS)
--[X] Dhaka Trade Route
---[X] Campaign (-20 PS)
-[X]Other Items 20 PS
--[X] Technological Transfers
---[X] Campaign (-15 PS)
--[X] Military Concessions
---[X] Lobby (-0 PS)
--[X] Tiberium Abatement Coordination
---[X] Propose (-5 PS)

85/109 PS

EDIT:
[X]Plan Diplomatic Support for Karachi
[X] Plan Diplomatic Support for Karachi + Taiwan

I don't think we're gonna get Karachi without at least Territorial Waters but who knows.
 
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