I'm for whatever gets us the most political support to spend on Mad Science. Or being more serious, Tiberium research, Tiberium power becuase that really a fantastic supplement to fusion power, Tiberium lifeform research studies, and helping the Forgotten reintegrate into the general human population, because that'll take some doing.

Oh, and Inferno Gel. That also costs political support, and would be great for new specialist railgun rounds.
 
I'm for whatever gets us the most political support to spend on Mad Science. Or being more serious, Tiberium research, Tiberium power becuase that really a fantastic supplement to fusion power, Tiberium lifeform research studies, and helping the Forgotten reintegrate into the general human population, because that'll take some doing.

Oh, and Inferno Gel. That also costs political support, and would be great for new specialist railgun rounds.

The Stations then, the Station bay/Leopard II Factory to speed those up, and finishing Orbital Clean up for the PS and other capstones. We will probably unlock the Lunar base and full production model Habitation Stations after Columbia is complete and those will probably give us more PS.
 
Are we going to be cackling madly as our zone troopers burn through screaming nod civilians with nifty new flamethrowers? Nope.

But what Inferno Gel can be used for is explosives, demolition charges.

if it's a more effective HE/Incendiary round then great. If on the other hand it's only useful as a terror weapon for creating horrifying burns, then we at least know what Not to do.
 
Inferno gel isn't categorically worse than the incendiaries we're already using, presumably the GDI still remembers how to make napalm and has been improving on it over the last 60 years. I don't think it's a particularly high priority to develop, there's at least half a dozen new military techs and platforms I'd toss dice at before inferno gel, but I also don't think it's some grave moral hazard when I can pretty much guaratee we're already burning people to horrible crispy deaths with other incendiaries all over the world right now.
 
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And I was quite clearly talking about building Shala at the same time as Columbia, to supply Columbia. So what are you even waffling on about?
...Why would we do that? That sounds very silly. We already have tens if not hundreds of thousands of people working in space and we ship up all their food just fine. Why would we suddenly have "and you must build the farms in space to feed these particular space people" as a requirement just because the people in Columbia have no particular intention of leaving?

Besides, Shala is so big it produces +Food on a noticeable level compared to GDI's overall agricultural production. I struggle to articulate just how much food that is. But even +1 Food is a lot more than everyone in orbit can plausibly eat at once, unless I am grossly overestimating our space workforce or grossly underestimating just how tiny our Agriculture projects are in scope.

Even if you're right, that's just a reason to complete Shala up through Phase 2 or so.

And multiply that by 8 Bay slots... (Station Bay was incorporated into the previous Station completion dates.)
...What are you even talking about? Eight bay slots? Are you talking about it somehow being obligatory to build bays on Shala and Columbia in the present plan? Or to build extra stations corresponding to the existing Enterprise bays immediately after Shala and Columbia, if we even can?

I... I really have a hard time understanding what you think is happening, or ought to happen.

Finishing all of the Bays is going to be difficult, though manageable.
Orbital AEVAs will help considerably. More caffeine would help somewhat.

We should consider whether we want all the Columbia and Shala Bays up or if developing the moon/asteroids/new Columbia style orbtial habs should take priority.
I think we're going to have to defer that decision until we've seen what those bays do. It is entirely reasonable for us to postpone them until 2066 or later unless we have an excellent reason to think they meet critical needs.

I'm for whatever gets us the most political support to spend on Mad Science...
We'll see. It's quite possible that we'll be so well off for Political Support that we have more of it than even Seo can burn through. Then again, maybe not.

Oh, and Inferno Gel. That also costs political support, and would be great for new specialist railgun rounds.
Railgun rounds tend to have small caliber and do not deliver large amounts of material. For incendiary weapons, you typically want large-diameter shells delivering a lot of burning material over a wide area. This suits our existing chemical-fired artillery shells and rockets much better.

No Inferno Gel. Regular rail gun rounds work fine on Gana, we don't need to shoot off War Crime Guns.
Actually I gather we're having some trouble with regular railgun rounds, at least on the scale of the creatures in question (that is, a tank-caliber railgun fired at a horse-sized target still obliterates it, but that's exactly what you'd expect).

However, I think the solution is beehive/flechette rounds, not incendiaries.
 
As I brought up the last time we discussed inferno gel - burning something only works if it feels pain, has thin enough skin to have quick effect, or is vulnerable to fire. Otherwise, you might have to deal with the thing up close for at least a bit, but now it's on fire. And it might put the burning gel back on you in the process of trying to kill you.

We have better ways of dealing with things than "setting them on fire."

Though, minor note - use of napalm is not a war crime, unless you use it on civilians.
 
The description straight up says the Air Force plans to use it against armored vehicles to systems kill them, gana aren't mentioned anywhere. "Kill it with fire" is a meme but it's just a meme, I definitely would not expect it to be more useful against gana than proper anti-personnel munitions (which let's be clear - are definitely not fun or humane ways to die either, being riddled with shrapnel and turned into jam from overpressure isn't morally superior to being set on fire, it's messy as hell either way).

Inferno gel is also not some uniquely horrific warcrime, it's just one more way for our state based on the industrialized murder of human beings to murder people. Being trapped in a Scorpion covered in inferno gel definitely would not be a fun way to die, but neither is being trapped in that same Scorpion as the ammo starts to cook off while your brains leak out of your ears and your flesh is eaten into by beads of molten copper after you took a HEAT warhead from our standard issue anti-tank missiles.
 
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What inferno gel/napalm has is a nearly 70 year reputation of horribleness from Nod. Flamethrowers and flame tanks of Tib War I, flame tanks of Tib War II, Black Hands, flame tanks, and Purifiers of the 2030s to today.

Perception matters.
 
I'm fine researching it. We have a surplus of political points at the moment. And if the result is something we don't like we don't have to deploy it.

And if it kicks into production automatically then it can't have been that radical than what we were already doing. Just some kind of upgrade.
 
...So building Shala for the purposes of growing food in space to ship it back to Earth to increase food production is not how it works and is for future food production for large amounts of population who would live in space?
 
...So building Shala for the purposes of growing food in space to ship it back to Earth to increase food production is not how it works and is for future food production for large amounts of population who would live in space?
Yes, growing food in space to bring it down to Earth is expensive beyond belief. Why does Shala give us Food/Congoods for our normal pool? Quest mechanics I presume.
 
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If we are in a use-it-or-lose-it scenario, I'd be in favor of researching inferno gel.

Otherwise, I'd prefer to reserve PS for more bioscience/tib-adaptation tech development/deployment.
 
The gel sounds useful for the constant mutant ball monstrosities that we are having trouble with.
As noted, I suspect that railgun flechette/airburst ammunition is about as good a choice there. I'm not sure those things even have pain sensitivity in the normal sense, and while incendiaries would cook their way through to something that can be killed eventually, a shitload of armor-piercing slugs will get through too.

As I brought up the last time we discussed inferno gel - burning something only works if it feels pain, has thin enough skin to have quick effect, or is vulnerable to fire. Otherwise, you might have to deal with the thing up close for at least a bit, but now it's on fire. And it might put the burning gel back on you in the process of trying to kill you.
Inferno gel burns so hot the effects start to resemble thermite. I'm pretty sure it can burn through fairly quickly... It's just that with railgun munitions we'll probably have other better options that go together better with our existing toolset.
 
Yes, growing food in space to bring it down to Earth is expensive beyond belief. Why does Shala give us Food/Congoods for our normal pool? Quest mechanics I presume.
Aren't we using reusable rockets? Not carrying cargo for the return journey doesn't sound super efficient.


...What are you even talking about? Eight bay slots? Are you talking about it somehow being obligatory to build bays on Shala and Columbia in the present plan? Or to build extra stations corresponding to the existing Enterprise bays immediately after Shala and Columbia, if we even can?

I... I really have a hard time understanding what you think is happening, or ought to happen.
You quoted the entire section... The first sentence said 'direction options to consider', and the rest of the language was framing it as a list of options. I don't see how you missed that.
The second sentence said 'filling out our Bay slots'. We will have 9 slots once all stations are built, so I'm unsure how this caused confusion.
 
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Scheduled vote count started by Ithillid on Jul 28, 2022 at 2:29 PM, finished with 247 posts and 118 votes.
 
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