The plan was for 4 years. They shouldn't have any expectations of getting consumer goods at the promised levels at any specific time before that. It could be 2 years, or 3 years, or at the very end of the 4 years plan, and the promise would still be upheld.

It's wrong to demand that the treasury drop everything to get Consumer goods at the cost of every other promise, not when there are more efficient ways to get the same results at the end.

Unless there was some condition on that list of promise that specified the level of consumer goods produced at times agreed on beforehand, then they have their plan, of 4 years, to wait with. The election won't be changing anything for the plan itself anyways, not affect it while it's still in progress.
Well, actually our effective deadline for some significant Consumer Goods increase (at least to =) is two years. Because in two years it's election time, and the FMP is promising the population that if they're voted into power, they can accomplish what the Treasury has failed to do for 6 years and get them back the pre-war times of plenty by reducing the powers of the Treasury and opening the Markets.

And that makes things harder for us in the long term, because then we're making 4YPs with a hostile Parliament.

The only way to prevent that is to show the people that the current structure can provide them with the QoL that they want by getting them their clothes, meat, etc.
 
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The election is in 6 turns and the voters won't give one single shit about us pinky promising to totally definitely we swear do consumer goods later in the FYP. If we're still forcing them to live bland lives in empty apartments trudging to work in the factories every day for pay they haven't been able to actually spend on anything for the past decade, they WILL elect politicians who promise to knife the Treasury and distribute all of mean Doctor Granger's loot to "the people" (i.e. their corporate buddies). And they would be 100% correct to do that. So no, we can't really wait to do consumer goods, not if we want to keep our job and budget.
 
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Grants ladies and gentleman

Do granrs :V,boost the growing market abd outsurce goods production

(Except clothing,people want more than potato sacks for t shirts)
 
Starting next turn we should definitely start going heavily into consumer goods. I mean, if we get lucky with the resource roll from 2 glaciers then we'll have the same resource we did before redistribution. That means unless we're slamming 5 dice into 30R resource sinks then we'll be able to activate most if not all dice... be difficult to NOT do consumer goods when that's the case.
 
Starting to sound like a broken record, but I once again request we shut down the refugee camps. That they're even still active 4.5 years after the war is an embarrassment.
All we need is two more units of housing. Literally any housing option will do.
 
Starting to sound like a broken record, but I once again request we shut down the refugee camps. That they're even still active 4.5 years after the war is an embarrassment.
All we need is two more units of housing. Literally any housing option will do.

They're only still open because people keep arriving.

I totally think that we should start
[ ] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 2)
[ ] Fiber-Optic Expansion
[ ] Yellow Zone Light Industrial Sectors
next turn just to really increase and lock in the yellow zone vote. And well, that is 12(?) consumer goods right there so it helps to stick it to those capitalist pig-dogs.
 
The plan was for 4 years. They shouldn't have any expectations of getting consumer goods at the promised levels at any specific time before that. It could be 2 years, or 3 years, or at the very end of the 4 years plan, and the promise would still be upheld.

It's wrong to demand that the treasury drop everything to get Consumer goods at the cost of every other promise, not when there are more efficient ways to get the same results at the end.

Unless there was some condition on that list of promise that specified the level of consumer goods produced at times agreed on beforehand, then they have their plan, of 4 years, to wait with. The election won't be changing anything for the plan itself anyways, not affect it while it's still in progress.
The electorate will respond to this argument by saying "fuck you" and firing the condescending technocrats who are lecturing them on why they should expect nothing for another two years and be grateful that they were promised anything at all.

Treasury has been consistently pushing the heavy industrial expansion line for four and a half years, ever since 2050. We promised to shift focus during this plan. If at the time of the election (2055) we are still acting as though that promise did not exist, the population will not wait another four years until 2059 to see whether we actually deign to keep our promise by 2057. They will vote right then and there, in response to what we have and have not actually delivered: lots of tiberium abatement and heavy machinery and nothing else.

They have wanted us to change course for years and continue to want this, and if we continue to ignore them, they have the power to replace the legislators that support us with a new legislature that they can be more confident will make us do what they want.

In our defense, we need some amount of cap goods and electricity to supply our consumer goods and military commitment. Though we do need to really get started in quarter 3. Unless we want to put ourselves at the mercy of a hostile coalition by the end of the plan. We can probably knock out 30 or even more by the end of the second year.
You're not wrong, but making a direction towards the consumer goods buildup as soon as possible, even if it means dropping the single-minded maximization of heavy industrial capacity, is still likely to be well-taken by the public.

Grants ladies and gentleman

Do granrs :V,boost the growing market abd outsurce goods production

(Except clothing,people want more than potato sacks for t shirts)
No, actually.

See here. Look at the estimated resource costs per point of consumer goods.

When we've more or less used up the options that cost 15 Resources per point of Goods or less (and there are quite a few of them), then it will make sense to do this with grants. Right now the only reason to use grants is to lock in pre-committed budgeting for consumer goods that we can't renege on later. And while conversations with @marids make me find that option awfully tempting for some reason, I don't think that's a good choice right now when our Resource budget is quite tight and we legitimately do need to accelerate tiberium mining to give ourselves some breathing room, along with the consumer goods production.

They're only still open because people keep arriving.

I totally think that we should start
[ ] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 2)
[ ] Fiber-Optic Expansion
[ ] Yellow Zone Light Industrial Sectors
next turn just to really increase and lock in the yellow zone vote. And well, that is 12(?) consumer goods right there so it helps to stick it to those capitalist pig-dogs.
Fiber-optic expansions aren't a great way to crank up consumer goods though the logistics boost is nothing to sneeze at and helps.

On the other hand, upgrades to communications are likely to increase yellow zone voter participation, which will help us, so... it's not that bad an idea. It's just not cheap and not optimal for specifically consumer goods.

Also, bear in mind that upscaling fortress towns is tricky if it doesn't go with upscaling shell production.
 
Fiber-optic expansions aren't a great way to crank up consumer goods though the logistics boost is nothing to sneeze at and helps.

On the other hand, upgrades to communications are likely to increase yellow zone voter participation, which will help us, so... it's not that bad an idea. It's just not cheap and not optimal for specifically consumer goods.
So I was looking at the Fiber-optics as a "It's handy because it also increases consumer goods and logistics". But if you read the description, then many people in the initiative have very little connectivity and who here can honestly say that they can live without the internet?! Or worse, you have the internet but it's dial up! brrrr

Resource wise there are more efficient choices. But it gives us 4 consumer goods and 2 logistics with a relatively small investment, no capital good or energy cost and can use dice that we might not otherwise be using.

The other more longterm reason to do it now is the [ ] Integrated Cargo System, which we will absolutely want to get started on in a few turns. Once we won't go back into negative capital goods when we complete it.

Also, bear in mind that upscaling fortress towns is tricky if it doesn't go with upscaling shell production.

From the text during the shell factory production we have barely enough shells and now its more speciality munitions. We're going to want to do another shell factory phase soon anyway and getting both further into the yellow zones (more yellow zone intensification ahoy!) and closing those refugee camps is probably worth it.
 
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So I was looking at the Fiber-optics as a "It's handy because it also increases consumer goods and logistics". But if you read the description, then many people in the initiative have very little connectivity and who here can honestly say that they can live without the internet?! Or worse, you have the internet but it's dial up! brrrr

Resource wise there are more efficient choices. But it gives us 4 consumer goods and 2 logistics with a relatively small investment, no capital good or energy cost and can use dice that we might not otherwise be using.
[grunt]

Yeah, I really want to get that done before the election.

The other more longterm reason to do it now is the [ ] Integrated Cargo System, which we will absolutely want to get started on in a few turns. Once we won't go back into negative capital goods when we complete it.
I'm thinking we want both V-35 and Carryall factories, honestly. The political support bonus/malus then cancels out and leaves us with sweet sweet Logistics.

From the text during the shell factory production we have barely enough shells and now its more speciality munitions. We're going to want to do another shell factory phase soon anyway and getting both further into the yellow zones (more yellow zone intensification ahoy!) and closing those refugee camps is probably worth it.
The problem is that if we build more fortress towns we're going to both (1) need more artillery guns to cover them, and (2) be building farther out towards Nod-infested territory, necessitating more ammunition expenditure from those guns. If we're barely keeping up with demand for common high explosive shells now, expect a minor shell crisis with batteries running dangerously short of ammunition if we build another round of fortress towns and don't build more shell production.
 
I'm thinking we want both V-35 and Carryall factories, honestly. The political support bonus/malus then cancels out and leaves us with sweet sweet Logistics.

I am not sold on the Carryall factories. Flying around using planes that are recognised as Nod reeks to me of trouble. Not the "Nod steals our production" but more "false flags all the way", right now if Nod flies up in a Carryall with GDI IFF on everyone knows it's Nod being sneaky. We start making and flying Carryalls then there is going to be reasonable doubt there and I think that with Nod that is not worth the risk.

The problem is that if we build more fortress towns we're going to both (1) need more artillery guns to cover them, and (2) be building farther out towards Nod-infested territory, necessitating more ammunition expenditure from those guns. If we're barely keeping up with demand for common high explosive shells now, expect a minor shell crisis with batteries running dangerously short of ammunition if we build another round of fortress towns and don't build more shell production.
We're going to need to do more phases of shell factory soon anyway, it just gives us more incentive to do it next turn. It's not like we can put all of the military dice into MARVs each turn. It's only 10R per dice -like many things in military- so it's not that big of an investment, other then the dice not being used elsewhere.
 
One thing that, after a bit of re-reading, stuck out to me as a potential source of future problems:


FloatingWood
#KropotkinsGhost I think some of the rolling stock literally came out of a museum. Some of the pieces I recognize from the history books.

If historical pieces are being brought back into service to handle demand for rolling stock, we are in a crisis. Maybe I'm overreacting, but I worry that if we don't get the rolling stock production done soon we're going to start seeing issues from this.

Other than that, I agree we need to get massive progress done on consumer goods ASAP, so I will be voting for

[X]Plan Start the Consoom
 
If historical pieces are being brought back into service to handle demand for rolling stock, we are in a crisis. Maybe I'm overreacting, but I worry that if we don't get the rolling stock production done soon we're going to start seeing issues from this.
Floatingwood is wrong. Historical designs are, because the designs exist and most of the kinks are worked out, but actual museum pieces are not.
Edit: One thing is that the posters in that section are often trying, but can be wrong, can be mistaken. They are the view of the GDI public, and if there is anything that can convince people of democracy being a mistake, it is a five minute conversation with the average voter.
 
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Floatingwood is wrong. Historical designs are, because the designs exist and most of the kinks are worked out, but actual museum pieces are not.
Edit: One thing is that the posters in that section are often trying, but can be wrong, can be mistaken. They are the view of the GDI public, and if there is anything that can convince people of democracy being a mistake, it is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

OK, that makes sense, unreliable narrator and all, glad it's cleared up.
 
Also, some areas have (had) very identifiable designs in service. It's quite possible that while the 2030-2050 materiel design was not available for one reason or another (we've had some major shortages in capital goods recently, and are still barely keeping up), an earlier design was cheaper or at least easier to implement. Or a redesign had been done, but the aesthetics deliberately called back to earlier designs.

It might even have been a literal museum line being taken back in action, or a museum piece being taken for a ride as a publicity stunt, only to then be returned to the museum for safekeeping while new rolling stock takes its place.
 
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I am not sold on the Carryall factories. Flying around using planes that are recognised as Nod reeks to me of trouble. Not the "Nod steals our production" but more "false flags all the way", right now if Nod flies up in a Carryall with GDI IFF on everyone knows it's Nod being sneaky. We start making and flying Carryalls then there is going to be reasonable doubt there and I think that with Nod that is not worth the risk.
If we can keep ourselves above water on Logistics without it, fine,
 
The Nod Carryall looks pretty visually similar to a GDI Second Tib War era Orca Carryall that they stole the blueprints for and made some modest upgrades to. Given the fact that we were pulling 90's-era harvesters out of mothballs when we blew the entire Resource reserve early in the reconstruction phase, there's probably already a few original 2030's-era Orca Carryalls painted in GDI colors in service.

Just think of it as bringing back an old mainstay courtesy of the Qatar defectors bringing the modernization plans along, -5PS is a "minor kerfuffle in Parliament but really not a big deal" level cost. A couple opposition Hawks and right wing blogs will try to wave the bloody shirt a bit and then be entirely forgotten when the news cycle moves on.

At the end of the day it's a pickup truck in the sky being built by the civilian industrial ministry for civilian cargo pilots to truck stuff around with, not some critical military asset. The air cavalry and military logistics and restricted airspace will remain V-35's exclusively, if only because it's legitimately the better airframe for those niches. If you're worried about Nod sneaking in via disguised Carryall you need to also worry about them sneaking in via a disguised civilian vehicle of any sort, which they 100% do every day and we will never eliminate, so might as well just keep using the pickup trucks they're too useful to shoot ourselves in the foot over imagined infiltrators.
 
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5PS is a "minor kerfuffle in Parliament but really not a big deal" level cost.
This. Broadly speaking, 5PS is the kind of thing where you are calling in a couple of favors, irritating a couple of people, and having to smooth it over. Nothing major, especially not at the level of power you are sitting at.

Also request for comment on a system that I am leaning towards.

Breakthrough Rolls
Breakthrough Rolls represent one off or limited chance situations where you can appropriate other people's technologies. The Scrin and NOD research projects will both generate breakthrough rolls. Generally they will always produce something, which can range from Prothean Opera on one end of the scale, to shields, plasma charges, tiberium inhibitors and gravitic forges on the other.

How I am thinking of representing these is two rounds of rolling. First I roll one or more results dice (depending on the project.) Second I roll Xd100 with X equal to the results of the first set of dice rolled. So if I rolled a 7 on the results die, I would roll 7d100, and compare it to a secret sheet of technologies that you would start developing.

How does this sound? Is it clear enough to work with?
 
I'm pretty chuffed at the chance we complete both the C-35 and the Carryall in the same turn. One gives +5 PS, the other costs -5 PS. Completely mixed signals politically, a Dr. Granger special!
 
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