Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
-[X] Attempt to recruit Egrimm van Horstmann into WEB-MAT
--[X] COIN: Gambler
Since it's in all the leading plans, I'd like to get this straight...

Mathilde is attempting to liberate/steal Egrimm from his stuffy Patriarch/College.

Her own College has a historical and philosophical rivalry with the Light College, and would be delighted to mess with them.

She, personally, would also delight in messing with them.

And she has explicitly tapped Ranald for this particular inter-collegiate adventure, so He can throw His divine monkey wrench into the works.

So............. Shenanigans? :lol:
 
The oath we swore to Belegar to serve him as Loremaster, fulfillment of which requires that we do Loremaster things.

Now, I don't actually care about Lhune, and I, at least, am of the opinion that our oath does not require that we do this, because he said it was optional, but I don't think mere money is the driving force here.

The oath would be the personal obligation part mentioned above, obviated as you say by the fact he said it was optional
 
The oath would be the personal obligation part mentioned above, obviated as you say by the fact he said it was optional
Lots of things are optional for the dawi and they do them anyway because they feel honorbound to do the best job possible they believe they can do. Some elements of the thread like this and vote for Mathilde to do the same. Is it so weird?
 
So............. Shenanigans?
Ranald is going to make their Patriarch have an unfortunate fall down some stairs, isn't he? And while he's unconscious having his hip regrown, the Lady Magister who alternates with him will approve of Egrimm's transfer, will run some routine Divinations to Tzeench-check that weird coincidence, and will come to the conclusion that we might have deliberately caused it.
 
Ranald is going to make their Patriarch have an unfortunate fall down some stairs, isn't he? And while he's unconscious having his hip regrown, the Lady Magister who alternates with him will approve of Egrimm's transfer, will run some routine Divinations to Tzeench-check that weird coincidence, and will come to the conclusion that we might have deliberately caused it.
I was more thinking something in the sense that the Patriarch comes into the room to tell Egrimm to do another task he doesn't want to do, only for Engrimm to suddenly fall over revealing a cardboard (or equivalent) cutout with a fully authorized transfer document on the back.
 
So, I was thinking that we might have a quick look at actions that have been hanging around for a while, maybe to see if there is anything high value that we have been neglecting, or just to see want type of actions the thread thinks are less important in general

[ ] DUCK: Panoramia's about ready to test for Magister, but she's putting it off because she doesn't have a lot of free time to prepare. Work with her to help make the most of every spare minute.
[ ] DUCK: Each of your three ducklings can fight in melee. Spar with them, and teach them what you can.

In duck actions, it seems like the thread is not that interested in pure 'teaching' actions, we are a little interested from memory, but only when doing something else while at it.

Hight value?: not really anymore, DUCK is going to be gone soon.


[ ] EIC: Reach out to Julia to find out if she's interested in being poached or passing on information.
[ ] EIC: Reach out to Roswita, and have the EIC start passing on tips about any tax evasion or other naughtiness by the EIC's rivals.
[ ] EIC: Have the EIC keep tabs on mercenaries so that they can be more easily hired if needed.

Seems the thread is not interested in making the EIC more combat able, and don't really want to add Named Characters to it: tho part of me thinks the thread has just forgotten Julia.

Hight value?: I feel like Julia is a bit of a forgotten gem, she actually had fairly good stats for a spymaster and is probably better at it now. tho after all this time hiring her might be hard unless that witch hunter is a dick of a boss.

Qrech: Everything

We really should make a decision about him at some point, rather then just cycling the 'Don't kill him because we like him and that would be cruel tree.. if we aren't going to pump him for more information.... all having him sitting there is him being a security threat. we need to do something with him.

high value?: Convince Qrech that he should prioritize the comfort with which he will live the rest of his life? I guess?

[ ] Gain enough control of your unruly shadow to still it temporarily.
[ ] Gain enough control of your attraction to smoke and gases to have it collect away from your face.
[ ] Try to see through Pall of Darkness with your improved magical senses.

I think these have been argued to death.

High value?: the gain control ones.

Foreign Relations:
[ ] Involve yourself in the Sylvanian campaign (specify how)
[ ] Involve yourself in the Marienburg affair (specify how)
[ ] Involve yourself in the Black Waters project (specify how)

I feel like this is a combo of part of the thread not wanting to get into the side-missions, and some of the thread not knowing what to do? whenever we 'know' what needs to be done, we get right on it, but when it's left as (specify how) we just scratch our heads at it and move on.

High value: Sylvanian campaign: ride around on your shadow steed being as Dämmerlichtreiter as possible and putting the fear of you into all the bad guys that were thinking of reinforcing the vampires that are being seiged.


[ ] Wolf is fully grown, very smart, and a Very Good Boy. Train him further. (specify what he will be taught)
[ ] Wolf is fully grown and very magical. Deepen your familiar bond. (may unlock a new familiar ability; risks obsession)

Wolf is Perfect as is

High value: puppy is perfect as is.

I think putting the research options in this list will just start a fistfight, so I'm leaving it.

thought? are any of the options looking more interesting and sometime people want to do now that they have been highlighted? or are they doomed to the backlog?
 
Yes he most certainly is. In fact, I think I remember an entire conversation Mathilde and Panoramia had about how the former leaving Wolf to just be himself Is a really good sign for her humanity.

That's an interesting interpretation of that, one not really I feel borne out by what was actually said though, that was much more about understanding what she would be like as a person by interpretation how wolf was raised. Nothing about her 'humanity' it's why she wasn't intimidated by her reputation.
 
Last edited:
That's an interesting interpretation of that, one not really I feel borne out by what was actually said though, that was much more about understanding what she would be like as a person by interpretation how wolf was raised. Nothing about her 'humanity' it's why she wasn't intimidated by her reputation.
I'll admit my memory is vague, so it could definitely have been something else. I only really remember it being something about how Pan knew Mathilde wasn't a super-scary stereotypical Grey Wizard because she could have turned Wolf into a weapon or shrewd infiltration tool, but instead he's just a puppy. Or something.
 
I'll admit my memory is vague, so it could definitely have been something else. I only really remember it being something about how Pan knew Mathilde wasn't a super-scary stereotypical Grey Wizard because she could have turned Wolf into a weapon or shrewd infiltration tool, but instead he's just a puppy. Or something.

Yea that's pretty much the gist of it, I just think even if Mathilde was a stereotypical Grey wizard that doesn't make her less human you know, not to mention I don't think how she trained Wolf is any indication of her humanity? Eh, not that big a deal I guess, but like defining humanity in that way seems like it'd exclude vast swathes of humanity ya know, the Ulricans for one?
 
Last edited:
Yea that's pretty much the gist of it, I just think even if Mathilde was a stereotypical Grey wizard that doesn't make her less human you know, not to mention I don't think how she trained Wolf is any indication of her not being a human? Eh, not that big a deal I guess, but like defining humanity in that way seems like it'd exclude vast swathes of humanity ya know, the Ulricans for one?
I didn't mean literal humanity. More the sort of humanity that "humane" is derived from, a sort of moral—or at least civil—standard on behavior that most people consider natural. Like how in most forms of fiction people who turn other sentient beings into tools for their use are depicted as bad and monstrous. Not literally inhuman, but inhumane. If that makes sense?

On the other hand, I can see how you would get a different meaning given the way Warhammer works, and how Mathilde does, in fact, become less human as more and more of her soul is replaced by Ulgu, but you're right in that has little to do with how she treats Wolf.
 
[ ] DUCK: Panoramia's about ready to test for Magister, but she's putting it off because she doesn't have a lot of free time to prepare. Work with her to help make the most of every spare minute.
[ ] DUCK: Each of your three ducklings can fight in melee. Spar with them, and teach them what you can.

In duck actions, it seems like the thread is not that interested in pure 'teaching' actions, we are a little interested from memory, but only when doing something else while at it.

Hight value?: not really anymore, DUCK is going to be gone soon.
I don't know about others, but for me it was just that I always trusted that Panoramia has her own very slow timeline in which she wants to go for Magister. Namely once she feels like she "accomplished" the full revitalization of the Caldera.

The melee sparring thing, well, they're Wizards. It has certainly been appealing enough for us to think about it and put into a few non-winning plans, but ultimately Wizard stuff always won out.

[ ] EIC: Reach out to Julia to find out if she's interested in being poached or passing on information.
[ ] EIC: Reach out to Roswita, and have the EIC start passing on tips about any tax evasion or other naughtiness by the EIC's rivals.
[ ] EIC: Have the EIC keep tabs on mercenaries so that they can be more easily hired if needed.

Seems the thread is not interested in making the EIC more combat able, and don't really want to add Named Characters to it: tho part of me thinks the thread has just forgotten Julia.

Hight value?: I feel like Julia is a bit of a forgotten gem, she actually had fairly good stats for a spymaster and is probably better at it now. tho after all this time hiring her might be hard unless that witch hunter is a dick of a boss.
I don't think that we should poach Julia from Roswita. It's good that she has a functioning intelligence apparatus beyond Witch Hunter business and Sylvanian economic warfare.
The second one would make it even more easy for the EIC to abuse government connections to dominate every other merchant organization. It's already enough as is.
The mercenary thing is not so old I think. IIRC it only came about after some discussion about hiring mercenaries for either Karag Dum or some time before when Marienburg became a subject of note.

Qrech: Everything

We really should make a decision about him at some point, rather then just cycling the 'Don't kill him because we like him and that would be cruel tree.. if we aren't going to pump him for more information.... all having him sitting there is him being a security threat. we need to do something with him.
I thought that whole thing was, well, okay as it is right now? At least until we decide to challenge the Horned Rat for his soul and actually take precautions and preparations worthy of that task.

Foreign Relations:
[ ] Involve yourself in the Sylvanian campaign (specify how)
[ ] Involve yourself in the Marienburg affair (specify how)
[ ] Involve yourself in the Black Waters project (specify how)

I feel like this is a combo of part of the thread not wanting to get into the side-missions, and some of the thread not knowing what to do? whenever we 'know' what needs to be done, we get right on it, but when it's left as (specify how) we just scratch our heads at it and move on.

High value: Sylvanian campaign: ride around on your shadow steed being as Dämmerlichtreiter as possible and putting the fear of you into all the bad guys that were thinking of reinforcing the vampires that are being seiged.
Sidequest starters. Will probably not be touched until either we get bored of our main tasks or BoneyM presents a major hook that pulls at our emotions or feel like things that IC Mathilde just has to get involved in.

[ ] Gain enough control of your unruly shadow to still it temporarily.
[ ] Gain enough control of your attraction to smoke and gases to have it collect away from your face.
[ ] Try to see through Pall of Darkness with your improved magical senses.
[ ] Wolf is fully grown, very smart, and a Very Good Boy. Train him further. (specify what he will be taught)
[ ] Wolf is fully grown and very magical. Deepen your familiar bond. (may unlock a new familiar ability; risks obsession)
These are the only ones that feel like self improvement things on a long list of "we'll get around to it" stuff. We've just always had better self improvement actions that we wanted to do first.

So except for those last ones, the other actions seem like things that we can do, but maybe don't ever want to. Like, even if the only alternative is coming up with a random write-in.
 
[ ] EIC: Reach out to Julia to find out if she's interested in being poached or passing on information.
[ ] EIC: Reach out to Roswita, and have the EIC start passing on tips about any tax evasion or other naughtiness by the EIC's rivals.
[ ] EIC: Have the EIC keep tabs on mercenaries so that they can be more easily hired if needed.

Seems the thread is not interested in making the EIC more combat able, and don't really want to add Named Characters to it: tho part of me thinks the thread has just forgotten Julia.

Hight value?: I feel like Julia is a bit of a forgotten gem, she actually had fairly good stats for a spymaster and is probably better at it now. tho after all this time hiring her might be hard unless that witch hunter is a dick of a boss.
Julia is fine, but poaching her is kind of redundant with the Hochlander, and I prefer the EIC's intelligence wing as a Grey Order op. Passing on information? Why would we want to spy on Stirland when for basically anything we need we could just ask Roswita? Speaking of which, I hate the second option with a passion because it is very clearly just about "making the EIC wealthier" -- using our spy network to snitch on the EIC's rivals. We already use our spy network to snitch on people doing serious crimes (cf the Hochlander leaving a trail of pyres in his investigations). And the mercenaries were, as Rafin pointed out, a Karag Dum prep option we probably don't need anymore.
Qrech: Everything

We really should make a decision about him at some point, rather then just cycling the 'Don't kill him because we like him and that would be cruel tree.. if we aren't going to pump him for more information.... all having him sitting there is him being a security threat. we need to do something with him.
I cannot disagree strongly enough. We invested AP in ensuring that he could have a nice life of his own without us constantly interacting with him, and so far that has paid off because we were able to hit him up for information about the Skull Road. Letting him keep living his life and occasionally asking him for more tidbits when something comes up that he would know about is a totally viable long-term equilibrium.

(I say long-term, but it's worth remembering that we've had him for six years already. We don't know how old he was when we captured him, but he's probably not got much more than six more years left in him, given skaven senescence at twenty.)
 
(I say long-term, but it's worth remembering that we've had him for six years already. He's probably not got much more than six more years left in him, given skaven senescence at twenty.)
How much skaven life time is their biology and how much is them getting backstabbed at the first sign of weakness is unknown.

As is how much of that is cumulative warpstone exposure, of which he has none since we got him.

TLDR: we have no idea how long he'll live.
 
How much skaven life time is their biology and how much is them getting backstabbed at the first sign of weakness is unknown.

As is how much of that is cumulative warpstone exposure, of which he has none since we got him.

TLDR: we have no idea how long he'll live.
What? No. Skaven naturally live 20 years or so. That is not an average taken from the backstabbing, that is genuinely how old they usually get.
 
How much skaven life time is their biology and how much is them getting backstabbed at the first sign of weakness is unknown.

As is how much of that is cumulative warpstone exposure, of which he has none since we got him.

TLDR: we have no idea how long he'll live.
Qrech, at least, seems pretty sure that he's got twenty years in him and not significantly more:
"And then I shall teach," Qrech says, in between carefully gnawing a fresh point onto his quill. "And in doing so, reveal the vulnerabilities of the Chaos Dwarves to the surface races. Every blow that weakens them will strengthen Moulder." He seems to mean it, but there was more conviction and pride in his voice at the start than at the end. He seems to be trying to convince himself that the comfort he's found in his academic niche is still serving his distant Clan. And then he perks up and waves a claw at his bookshelf. "And when all respect my words as master of the doom of the eastern foes? A book. All Qrech's knowledge carved onto wood and stamped onto a hundred, a thousand copies. And when those books grow old, copied into new books. I have read of the Ambush at Mount Cragg, words from ten lifetimes ago. The Battle of Kurgel's Gulch from fifty lifetimes ago. The song of Sir Baldrin of Brionne from seventy lifetimes ago." He chitters, patting the spines of his books. "Qrech will die, but Qrech's words will outlive all. Even the favoured who get the long-life concoctions. Even Throt. Even Lord Verminkin."
The unit of measure "lifetime" here turns out to be twenty years. And his mention of the long-life concoction makes me think he is talking about biological senescence rather than "this is about as long as a skaven can hope to live before getting murdered," especially since he used to be part of Clan Moulder.

Granted, if he hits twenty and is still in good health, I'm sure we can recalibrate, but right now I think the evidence strongly suggests a natural lifespan of about that long.

EDIT: I am pretty sure that we've never asked Qrech how old he is because that's the sort of thing in Skaven society that makes it sound like you're searching for a weakness to exploit.
 
Last edited:
What? No. Skaven naturally live 20 years or so. That is not an average taken from the backstabbing, that is genuinely how old they usually get.
Of course, one needs to also account for the fact that Skaven will spend most of their natural lifespan malnourished, living in unsanitary conditions and covered in urine, because that's how Skaven mark their possessions, underlings included. So there's a decent chance that Skaven would live longer if they were ever raised in better conditions.

But yeah, 20 years is the furthest a Skaven gets in age without some pretty intensive medicines like what the Council of Thirteen and major Warlords get.
 
Qrech's existence is known by single-digit or low-teens number of people, I don't consider him a security threat.

The only way someone is finding him is if they either breach our home or manage to get seriously classified info out of those people- if either has occurred, I think we have bigger problems.
 
I'd like to make the case that all the options for the EIC are useful and we should take them all when we can.
[ ] EIC: Have the Hochlander set up a shadow headquarters for the EIC in the Sunken Palace.
[ ] EIC: Have the Hochlander set up a shadow headquarters for the EIC in your fief.
These options will allow us to maintain proper intelligence infrastructure separate from mercantile networks. Where is our intel network headquarters anyway? They have to keep the paperwork somewhere. They aren't working out of the EIC's basement, are they?
[ ] EIC: Found an auditors division, to make sure the ledgers are in order.
The EIC operates in seven different provinces and two different polities. Can you imagine how divergent the accounting practices are? Someone is going to have to sort through that mess. We'll also have people to call on when it comes to forensic accounting.
[ ] EIC: Reach out to Julia to find out if she's interested in being poached or passing on information.
We're probably not going to poach Julia because we have the Hochlander. But if you want leads to poke things, know how Stirland is doing under Roswita, and start building connections in the intelligence community, this is the best option.
[ ] EIC: Reach out to Roswita, and have the EIC start passing on tips about any tax evasion or other naughtiness by the EIC's rivals.
This is a noteworthy public good, so I'm surprised this isn't more popular. White collar crime is still crime, and we and our allies benefit if a stop is put to it. Roswita gets more money, our competitors get a spoke in their wheel in a period of intense competition, and our intel network gets more experience and another achievement under it's belt.
[ ] EIC: Improve and expand the EIC's paramilitary river navy. (optional: specify how)
I know this option garnered a lot of question marks from the thread, but it's undoubtedly useful. We're in the middle of a massive outbreak of piracy, and we're transporting critical goods to Stirland's armed forces and government, as well as shipping trade goods and and luxuries to K8P. Not to mention when the canal completes, bandits will still be a concern.

As for concerns for giving them paramilitary power, who would they use it against and what for that's so objectionable? If the EIC is embroiled in some dispute, it will rely on it's connections, intelligence network, and financial firepower rather than brute force. And it's not like there won't be repercussions if it somehow gets the bright idea to achieve it's aims through violence. If it attacks the citizenry, it alienates it's customer base. If it comes to blows with the nobility, they'll close ranks and put significant pressure on it. And governments have a lot hurt to lay down in defense of their interests.
[ ] EIC: Have a blackpowder factory built in Wurtbad.
When will blackpowder ever not be needed? Roswita is in the middle of a military buildup for a siege, so she'll purchase all of it. After the siege, she'll need to refill her stores. It's good work and good money.
[ ] EIC: Have the EIC keep tabs on mercenaries so that they can be more easily hired if needed.
If you like Asarnil, this is how you get more Asarnil. If you don't want anymore Asarnil, this is how you get other cool cats. Remember the Besigers in the Battle of the Caldera? Should the need arise, we can more easily find the right men for the job.
[ ] EIC: Sell some of the Grand Urbaz Bank coins to collectors and museums on King Belegar's behalf.
@BoneyM The Grand Urbaz is gone, so is this option no longer available?
 
Last edited:
Qretch is valuable enough to drop some college favor on life extension, IMO. The longer he's been with us, the more shaky his loyalties to clan moulder have gotten - drag that out long enough, and he may open up on completely new topics like Moulder's queekish dialect.

Even if we can capture and interrogate a new skaven, we'd have to start from scratch on subverting loyalties. And even to begin with Qretch was reasonably high up, and betrayed just as we got to him so he started out more pliable than we'd typically get.
 
Last edited:
Voting is open
Back
Top