So just to be clear
[ ] get to know book collectors of the empire (social)
[ ] get to know if any book collectors are up for a deal (social AP)
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
[ ] get to know book collectors of the empire (social)
[ ] get to know if any book collectors are up for a deal (social AP)
What is the distinction between (social) and (social AP)?
The ones we get free at the end of the turn vs the ones we have too send AP on?
I feel like there is a lose in communication going on.
the 'interaction' I was asking about were, in my mind, very much us hunting for information that might be useful for the job. (Gossip, connections, names of useful people to spend future AP on) So I thought they needed AP.
the social version of an scouting action.
so I was looking for a temple that works for conveying that. E.g social scout group (group name)
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Yes, if you want to interact with someone with a specific goal in mind, it is something that you would need to spend AP on. If you want to do something that's not covered by the options present, it can be written in, or you can ask me about it and I might add it to the list or give you a phrasing to use.
Ok,
I think a general [] mingle with (group name) might be a good idea for this general idea of action (Dip scouting?)
If there's a specific action that people want to take that isn't covered by the available options, I'll deal with it then. The list is already long enough without inventing hypotheticals.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Maybe this is my inner Dwarf talking, but there is also the aspect of basic integrity.
To echo Jyn Ryvia's concern, "I nearly died in single combat to a khorn champion, I need to sword better for peace of mind" would make sense if our other actions were also oriented towards survival. Instead in the currently winning plan we are spending our time:
- Onboarding our two employees that we take with us to our new job. Two employees who by the way are also getting a Master level salary from Belegar these six months.
- Collaborating with our girlfriend on some small project of benefit to our own Guild, though they are technically Belegar's allies.
- Delegating agents in our private company for the potential benefit of the Empire based on a hunch.
- Inviting the heir of our friend/CEO on a tour to educate her in Dawri values.
- Developing novel and specialized martial arts.
- Recruiting for our next job before we've stopped taking a salary from our current one.
- Writing a paper on something important we witnessed/did on the Loremaster job.
I'd really like people to stop saying that. The idea that the Dawi King Belegar Ironhammer of Vala-Azril-Ungol would give pointless tasks to any of his six government ministers, even when he's trying to go light on an overworked one that is leaving soon, is ludicrously out of character. The project of exploring and the underground territories of his kingdom has been one even the player base has been thinking about for a long time. And the weird mystery of what is going on with the wind flow and integrity under Lhune has first been brought up in the first turn, when Dreng had the bright idea to just burn out the Greenskin Mushrooms and the fire got out of control.
Actually, we once took an action like that back when we were struggling with writing our very first paper on the Matrix.
I guess Jyn might be thinking that, for example, hanging out with a few Jades on an event one time is different from purposefully spending productive time trying to ingratiate herself and investigating the culture of the Jade Order.
Like imagine if we had played as a Diplo Councilor at some point. Or maybe even created one at the start that wasn't a Wizard or a Warrior. Presumably our actions in that case wouldn't have consisted of just self improvement and social actions. So is there an option to spend AP on "make friends with the Jade Order and see what they need" the way that, say, Anton spent AP on "make sure all the nobles of Western Stirland are happy with the new EC"?
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- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Wait, what? The last task Belebro is giving us and the winning plan is ignoring it completely?
I repeat: what?
Sometimes this thread manages to travel to bizarre places while I'm not watching it. I stand here utterly baffled.
I repeat: what?
Sometimes this thread manages to travel to bizarre places while I'm not watching it. I stand here utterly baffled.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Hmm. Doing this for the Jades would just be about investing an AP into hopefully mitigating the risk of not getting the support we want from them. But the one I'm actually the most interested in doing an action like this with are the Shallyans. I still want that youth treatment and we are getting closer and closer to our forties.
- Location
- Earth
The job task this turn clearly states (optional) when it hasn't in any other turn. There is no loss in integrity in turning down an optional task. We did our duty as Loremaster by contributing to the Karag Dum Expedition. There's some symbolic value in wrapping up our Loremaster duties with one last normal task, but it isn't necessary.
Think back to the time we actually had that concern, and almost died at Karagril. The only thing we needed to do to avoid a nega-trait was to learn Shroud of Invisibility, and that took one action—Go to the Grey College and learn the spell. It only took more than one AP because we rolled badly in spell availability. And we aren't even as concerned right now as we were then, since there's no mechanical impetus to do so.
Belegar essentially told Mathilde to ignore the job and do her own thing. It's neither irresponsible nor OOC for Mathilde to not do the Lhune Depths investigation project.
This is what Belegar told Mathilde when he was offering this project to her. Note the "If you are absolutely desperately for something to keep your hands busy" and "don't feel obliged".
And Mathilde's own thoughts on the Lhune Depths project also make it clear that from her own IC perspective, she is free to ignore this task and there is no shame or dishonour in not doing it. Note the "Belegar made it clear it was optional".
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13th Bee
Worker
- Location
- Tennessee, USA.
So...
[JK] "Collaborate with Panoramia on investigating possible uses of the agricultural prod- What? No! This isn't just a thinly veiled excuse to go on a lot of dinner dates with my girlfriend!"
He specifically told us we could ignore it and it is more or less make work anyway.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Wrong. There are no external consequences in turning down this task. Whether Mathilde things that being paid for by a loyal friend for a job she ignores in favor of working on her own projects reflects badly on her integrity is entirely up to her internal conscience. Or in other words, the voting player base.
Since you repeat the same argument I will repeat the response.
First of all, the quote went "but don't feel obliged if you need to spend some time recovering." That's one holistic phrase that I interpret as meaning that Belegar would rather want us to rest if we need it than spend time on this. But we aren't resting instead. Or even sticking only to activities that are less mentally or physically challenging that the simplest job related action we can take.
Also note that my argument is not that Belegar or anyone else will think less of Mathilde if she doesn't do the task. My argument is merely that both my interpretation of her character and my idea of what I would ideally do if I were in her place both involves not spending time exclusively on our own projects while being paid by Belegar, without taking up the offer of resting instead, regardless of whether any losing of face in the eyes of others is involved.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
There's no option to rest so the thrust of your argument is spurious. Belegar isn't expecting Mathilde to sit on her ass doing nothing if she doesn't investigate. You're essentially reading into tea leaves that don't exist and creating justifications based on that.
Like I said I am entirely willing to give up that coin to dwarf charity if you want. To be honest I do not see Belegar being that petty, but if your sense of honor requires it fine. That coin is by any resolvable metric worth a hell of a lot less than even a single AP. We are not here for the money, we are in fact there to improve the circumstances of the Karaz Ankor and the fortunes of the Empire with a focus on the Colleges of Magic and our fellow wizards.
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- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Well, in theory we could write in something in the spirit of this:
More practically, we could be voting for one of the plans like the one where we write tonnes of papers or otherwise engage in arguably relaxing activity.
Like Jyn Ryvia said, it's not about the money. It's about the work ethic. It's about being the Loremaster of K8P for six more months and considering that status as more than just a title.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Any wizard can make the map. The proposed way we have of gathering the info the map would be made from is something any dwarf can do, too. If we were talking about mathilde exploring down there personally there'd be something to complaining about her not helping personally but literally everything else on that action list can be done just as well, or better, by a traditional loremaster.
A loremaster who WON'T be suffering from a -10 malus, I'd add. If it's concern for the wellbeing of the karak in and of itself, the plans that involve working on this issue simply aren't cutting it either.
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- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Huh. That argument actually resonated with me. It's not a straight forward negligence of Loremaster duty and passing on the AP expenditure to the next guy. It's choosing not to put in some minimal and unconcentrated effort with a -10 exhaustion malus. I don't think you convinced me to change my vote, but it's still a good argument.
Work Ethic is instrumental, it is only ever as valuable as the work it is put to. Perfect work ethic in the job of counting grains of sand on the beach is worth no more than slaking half the time. Now talking to those miners is not that lacking in actual value, but it is close given the disparity between Mathilde's actual skills and the task at hand it is not what I would call doing our best by any of those we have sworn and pledged to aid and protect.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Well, to be maximally fair to Rafin's position, Mathilde is dwarf-tier at three-dimensional spatial reasoning and very good at constructing a coherent understanding of a situation from a bunch of separate reports; we invented a spell the last time we were in a similar position! There's no guarantee that the next Loremaster (especially if Belegar grabs a dwarf lawyer) will be anywhere near as good at that sort of thing as we (we have a trait about it!), so probably it will get kicked over to Dreng as a matter of internal security, and maybe Dreng has other priorities. So if we care about this job getting any progress in the next while, we should do it and not assume that the next person will do it better than us.
That said, all that is contingent on caring that the Lhune depths get explored in the next while, and as people have pointed out our -10 to tasks does mean that, while Mathilde At The Peak Of Her Game is probably advantaged over the other person who would be doing this work, Mathilde As She Is Right This Second might well not be. So I can go either way on this (and am so doing).
That said, all that is contingent on caring that the Lhune depths get explored in the next while, and as people have pointed out our -10 to tasks does mean that, while Mathilde At The Peak Of Her Game is probably advantaged over the other person who would be doing this work, Mathilde As She Is Right This Second might well not be. So I can go either way on this (and am so doing).
Advancing the swordstyle is an arguably relaxing activity.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
[x] Plan Redshirt with Mushrooms
[X] Plan Shrooming Shadow
[X] Plan sword and duty
[X] [KAU] In Kvinn-Wyr, with an entrance from the Eastern Valley
[X] Plan Shrooming Shadow
[X] Plan sword and duty
[X] [KAU] In Kvinn-Wyr, with an entrance from the Eastern Valley
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You're all missing the point. I am not incorrectly believing that we need to take a Lhune depths action. I am flabbergasted that the Divided Loyalties questbase is passing up their last chance to fulfill a request for Belebro as loremaster.
It's OOC for the thread, not Mathilde. At least as I have been perceiving them.