Again, work does not have inherent value for being official, it only has what value can de derived from it and if a half decent loremaster could do it than it is by definition a waste of our time since there are far more half decent loremasters out there and one will be taking over at the end of the turn in fact.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Again, work does not have inherent value for being official, it only has what value can de derived from it and if a half decent loremaster could do it than it is by definition a waste of our time since there are far more half decent loremasters out there and one will be taking over at the end of the turn in fact.
- Location
- South Africa
Perhaps not the most efficient use of our time, but not a waste of out time. Secondly, while I agree that someone else can do it, there is value in getting it done now and not later. This is value that only we, the current loremaster, can provide.
True, now the question is, does that constitute enough value to spend not just our time IC but Boney's writing time. I don't know about you but I would rather read about sword training than collating mining reports.
- Location
- South Africa
For me personally yes especially with the baseline value of actually generating the map (Also a dwarven Loremaster won't be able to cast MMAP). You have a different opinion. My argument was primarily a response to your claim that doing our job is a waste of our time - which it is not.. It is possibly an inefficient use of our time but even if it is, I don't think that efficiency should be the driving factor in our decisions.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
We have no idea who said Loremaster will be. They might be just as competent in their area of expertise as Mathilde is in hers. If Belegar considers it worth doing, then the next Loremaster will have to spend time on it that he or she could have spent on Belegar's next project.
Work does not have inherent value, but personally I trust Belegar to not create work without inherent value.
Why though? Sword training is just a blurb about sparring with that new technique, like we had last time. Coordinating Dwarves might involve actually talking to them or finding something surprising.
Sorry. Let me rephrase. There's nothing wrong with you subjectively preferring to read one over the other, but there isn't some inherently objective reason why one is more likely to he good than the other.
Does Belegar consider it worth doing? Because to me 'do this thing if you feel like it' does not feel like a great interest in seeing the matter resolved and more than likely it will not eat into the next project because he will simply ignore it. Indeed I consider it likely he will ignore it even if we do the reports since it is unlikely that one halfhearted safe action is going to actually resolve anything. At least the sword training is more or less assured to show some progress even on a low roll.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
If he doesn't, why suggest it over literally anything else? He knows Mathilde's competences and is shrewd and smart enough to find useful actions that plausibly count as Loremaster work. One action isn't going to resolve anything, but it is going to give the next Loremaster something to work with.
IC I am thinking of it this way. Imagine if you were a project leader who has given his two week notice. Your boss (not just manager), who you both like and respect a lot, gives you some task (an actual new project of some kind that is not just busy work but that you'll definitely not see through to the end) but says that he knows you're a busy woman and will pay you regardless of if you continue to show up till the end. Now it is true that you're a busy woman, so maybe you'll have to take him up on it. But between putting at least some effort into that final task and hitting the gym instead of showing up at all, would you really want to do the latter?
OOC I have to admit that I still muse about that super magical map room. It might well be worth doing as a WEB-MAT project at some point and starting this task for the next Loremaster gives us an in to collaborating with him on it in the medium term future. Or on anything else, since something like a grand library definitely falls under their purview. I also expect that helping K8P/Belegar out will become an option like involving ourselves in Sylvania or Marienburg continues to be. Not something anyone is going to vote for while busy with the main quest, but something we might look into during slower turns.
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Hitting the gym implies we are doing this to stay in shape rather than stay alive, which is more the case with sword training IMO. To me at least even incremental increases to that capacity are worth more than the possibility of incremental improvements to the Karak's security (since we might after all find nothing) as death is the end of the quest.
IC he told us something more like "I consider what you've accomplished on the trip to have been your job for this quarter. But if you're really bored there's this thing you could poke at."
This is what Belegar told Mathilde when he was offering the Lhune Depths investigation project to her.
Note the "If you are absolutely desperately for something to keep your hands busy" and "don't feel obliged".
And this is Mathilde's own thoughts on the Lhune Depths project.
Note the "Belegar made it clear it was optional".
Note the "If you are absolutely desperately for something to keep your hands busy" and "don't feel obliged".
And this is Mathilde's own thoughts on the Lhune Depths project.
Note the "Belegar made it clear it was optional".
Chlof
Her Ladyship
- Pronouns
- She/Her
What scenario are you envisaging happening within the next few turns that would put Mathilde in life threatening danger?
Field work for the waystone project. Those beastmen are not going to take us poking around the woods lying down and that is just what I consider likely. You can also have surprises, maybe there will be war with Marianburg in which case we will likely feel honor-bound to get involved given that we started the whole thing, maybe some new vampire will decide to target Roswita etc...
This is Warhammer after all. Deadly peril is never far.
- Location
- Netherlands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Personally, I do not expect Mathilde to become endangered in the next few turns. But I do think there inevitably will come a time where danger is coming again, and then I'd be very happy to have to spend one less AP on our swordstyle.
Also, secondly- and this is a thing I find less likely but not irrelevant- there could always come danger without warning. Assassination attempts, ambushes, etc. We are about to lead a project that could play a very significant role in combatting Chaos: and we might not have the privilege of knowing when malevolent eyes turn our way.
Thirdly, and I don't have high expectations that it'll work, but I'm hoping there could be a way to pass on our fighting style. It'd need some way of letting others replicate the disappear/appear thing, but if we can figure that out, then I think that would be really cool.
Finally... I just think the sword style is cool and I'd like to do things with it.
Also, secondly- and this is a thing I find less likely but not irrelevant- there could always come danger without warning. Assassination attempts, ambushes, etc. We are about to lead a project that could play a very significant role in combatting Chaos: and we might not have the privilege of knowing when malevolent eyes turn our way.
Thirdly, and I don't have high expectations that it'll work, but I'm hoping there could be a way to pass on our fighting style. It'd need some way of letting others replicate the disappear/appear thing, but if we can figure that out, then I think that would be really cool.
Finally... I just think the sword style is cool and I'd like to do things with it.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Note also this part though:
This indicates to me that Belegar is letting us off easy because of the amazing and difficult things we accomplished and because of how exhausted we are. But it's not like developing a new swording technique is holiday time. It's just a workaholic self-optimizer that got outclassed twice in melee combat not being able to stand still. And because of the game mechanics coupled with SV voting patterns if we don't do Branarhune we'll do something else instead. But if we are going to be fully constructive and busy anyway then we might as well do our job. At least if there aren't any other major priorities.
The next few turns? Like the next 2-4 turns? Because I'm pretty sure we'll have done Branarhune by then, even if we don't do it now.
I actually agree with you on almost all points. I just disagree that it has to start happening now. The swording style is my top priority among non-magical self improvement actions. But self improvement actions aren't my top priority.
As for passing on the swording style, we already know that when you enchant an object with a spell, the spell doesn't have to translate one to one and in fact often doesn't. All we need to do is try and upscale the enchantment version of our Shadow Dagger mastery and attach it to a greatsword hilt.
Of course since mass enchanting isn't a thing, we'll probably only ever make one of those. But other than the weight it would be the perfect weapon for whoever inherits our sword to get used to the idea already beforehand. And when we die they in turn can pass Moon's Shadow (or whatever we name it) on to their own heir/apprentice/second in command.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
"Why indeed?" - Swordsman McSwordsmanship, Champion of Swords.
Like any of that could happen in the next 1 turn.
Even tho I don't like it that much, if we start sword, I want to commit to sword.
We are getting to the stage that things have enough moving parts that we can't get much in a turn or two.
part of why I don't want to move on to tongs yet. Poking at it, AV, and divine is how you get non of them done.
We are getting to the stage that things have enough moving parts that we can't get much in a turn or two.
part of why I don't want to move on to tongs yet. Poking at it, AV, and divine is how you get non of them done.
Darth.
Definitely a heretic
- Location
- The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
While wielding his sword Swordy McSwordface
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
I can agree with that. I just didn't want to do both at the same time while at a -10 malus.
By that metric all kinds of non-sword related dangers could also happen. Our spell list or ability to see through Pall of Darkness might be much more vitally important for all we know. Or speaking Nehekharan might save our lives.
I would be entirely willing to switch over to spell learning, learning Nehekharan is a lot more niche than something you can use in most life or death situations so I'm going to pass on that one unless we are planning to go visit the land of the dead.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Eh. By this point it's pretty clear that our fundamental priorities are just different. I value the IC normalcy and integrity of doing our job that we're getting paid for one last time enough to accept a very slight risk increase of death or injury and dislike the idea of focusing on individualist self improvement to the point of ignoring said job completely. You highly value even a slight increase in survival skill happening as soon as possible and consider the job at hand to have no intrinsic value.
We can only agree to disagree here I think.
Honestly, I agree with you.
we improve to do better at the job. (Or long term projects)
improvement for survival at the expense of the job is pointless.
[X] Plan Redshirt with Mushrooms
[X] [KAU] In the Silver Tower, an ancient structure on the southwestern face of Karagril
Changing my vote to reflect this realisation.
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If we are dead the loss in job effectiveness is 100% (well unless you want to take up a Certain Book
)