Marrienburg has been conquered by the empire before and the world did not end. The Empire was split into three warring successor states for like eight hundred years before Chaos really tried to take advantage of that.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
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It's very nebulous whether the elves even consider themselves bound by the agreement. Any actual threat to Marienburg and there is a good chance they won't bother as long as they get to keep Elftown.
I just want to point out the "Order Nations" is a useless term, they are only technically on the same side and they often fight against each other. Honestly I'd hesitate to even list Marienburg an order faction, they seem more like the "neutral" factions, they are still against chaos and all that but they aren't exactly on team order.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
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- Belgium
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If someone in Marienburg try that, there will be a civil war. The various cults would never accept that, nor the Elves.
Setra the Imperishable: "Oh woe is me I conquered all the lands of Nehenkara, behold how poorly it worked for me."
Sigismund the Conqueror: "Indeed how could we have been so blind? War did not serve us at all."
The reason people in this age wage war against other 'order factions' is because it does indeed work out for the people who win. Sure it can go poorly too, but that is the wager you make with the world when you go to war.
Order is about as useful a definition as the Allies in WW2 largely only relevant at all when a common enemy of all is going to kick their collective ass individually.
Marienburg revanchism has numerous lead in factors. The Verenans and Colleges want their library access back. Ranald would like his great temple more accessible to the Empire and a Marienburg Elector could help. Every province, if they weren't convinced before the embargo threat, are convinced now that it is vital to their strategic interests that control over the vast majority of imperial trade falls within the hands of an imperial stakeholder. The Sigmarites want their Sigmar granted provinces back. The dwarves are annoyed at interfering with their private infrastructure projects.
Basically, as far as the Empire is concerned, the only question is When and How, not whether it should be done or not.
Too many parties want it done, except Marienburg's strategic position requires either truly epic earthmoving or a major misstep on their part to make it plausible.
Marienburg revanchism has numerous lead in factors. The Verenans and Colleges want their library access back. Ranald would like his great temple more accessible to the Empire and a Marienburg Elector could help. Every province, if they weren't convinced before the embargo threat, are convinced now that it is vital to their strategic interests that control over the vast majority of imperial trade falls within the hands of an imperial stakeholder. The Sigmarites want their Sigmar granted provinces back. The dwarves are annoyed at interfering with their private infrastructure projects.
Basically, as far as the Empire is concerned, the only question is When and How, not whether it should be done or not.
Too many parties want it done, except Marienburg's strategic position requires either truly epic earthmoving or a major misstep on their part to make it plausible.
I do have to chuckle a little about the Albion passage quoted.
"Oh yeah guys, they're totally better than the elves at the whole waystone thing. That's why they've got an island surrounded by mist, while the elves have this silly vortex thing draining the rest of the world's excess magic. Mist clearly > vortex."
"Oh yeah guys, they're totally better than the elves at the whole waystone thing. That's why they've got an island surrounded by mist, while the elves have this silly vortex thing draining the rest of the world's excess magic. Mist clearly > vortex."
dinomannitro6
all your gender is belong to us
- Location
- The Land Where The Sunflowers Bloom
Are you referring to the Time of Three Emperors? Because Deiter IV selling Marienburg was just 50 years ago in quest.
Also why we are in the stone age and they are a global superpower.
Blue paint and stone axes> Magical wonders and treasures beyond the dreams of avarice.
On first look Kislev very much appeals to me. We get contact with a magic user group we wouldn't otherwise have access to, we avoid making early enemies, we avoid what may be seen as pro-Empire partiality or pro-Dwarf partiality by doing the project somewhere not closely tied to those Mathilde has served before. And if I remember my WHF, Kislev doesn't have any complicating factors that would get in the way with working with any of the elven groups...
fasquardon
Voikirium
SV's Estalia Guy
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K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
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- Belgium
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Also why we are in the stone age and they are a global superpower.
Blue paint and stone axes> Magical wonders and treasures beyond the dreams of avarice.
Well, here we have an objective proof that Warhammer canon is from the perpective of an unreliable narrator.😏
Edit: Obviously, the Elves' arrogance isn't based on nothing...😌
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Their is the fact Kislev ice witches has ugh, a yucky prophecy that a male magic user will fuck up their magic which convinces a significant protion of them to kill all male children who develop magic sense and that it's a good thing so ugh, consider that what you will but i'm not sacraficing the ability to get Max and his unique trait of transfering unique magical insights to written, understandable form on board for our project and other male magic users who could contribute to our project just to support their bullshit prophecy.
That means that if we base our operations in Praag, we can't hire Teclis, right? That's an instant disqualification then.
there is the thing about having chaos right next door to think about.
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
More specifically, it is males who gain a grasp of Ice Magic. Imperial Magisters and Journeymen use a Wind of Magic, not Ice Magic, and so are not a risk with regards to that prophecy. The Fire Spire in Praag was composed largely of magic users from outside Kislev; Hedgewise, witches, hedge wizards, Arabyan sorcerers and the like. All of Kislev's native magical traditions are exclusively for women, but the magic traditions of outsiders weren't part of that threat. Still abhorrent, of course, but not going to be a problem to our project and any personnel we bring onboard to work on it.
I think that "male magic users" is one of the things we'll clear up next update, assuming the research vote doesn't suddenly swing by 50+ votes.
Something to note about Kislev and their ice witches is that their at least pragmatic enough to let nobles who care to much for their children to kill them themselves if they develop magic sense and send them to the colleges so theirs that. They let Teclis and his male mages he trained up in when the coming of chaos came so i;m sure they'd be tolerant of it to not immedietly murder us.
Still, with a vast population of who believe in this legend and see the power of the ice witches defend them from the gribblies it will be hard on the male magic users we do bring in and mistrust of our group.
Even though fire spire does exist and i believe did have male magic users in Pragg the Ice witches were noted to hate that group and still do today.
The main attraction to Kislev for magic project is working with the ice witches and their wierd geomancy and power they draw from the land but that requires we work with them.
If they hate us, or at least portions of them hate us or we are contriversial in their eyes because we have male magic users in our group it's going to be a slog to try and convince the one's who are okey with male magic users to work with us.
Either way we'll see from the update description Boney gives us of Kislev but i don't expect friendly locals or majority of the ice witches taking to kindly to us when we stroll up with a male magic users in our project and they still hate fire spire and unfriendly locals who also believe in the bullshit legend. Bringing in male elven users would especially be a slog because imagine convincing them to try and keep their arrogant attitude in check while in Kislev.
- Location
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That's my point - there's no permanent political block "Order faction" in Warhammer world and there's in fact no reason for it to actually from - sure Chaos is a global threat and there are subset of polities and species who are opposed to yet other polities' plans on the world including them only as suffering souls of the dead or animated corpses or slaves and sometimes tend to band and/or help each other against major incursions from second group, but they aren't nearly, to the point of constant total war and exhaustion, pressed enough by their threats for conventional politics to be entirely unfeasible and for permanent alliance to exist. Warhammer planet is dangerous and threatened, but isn't nearly of a "death world" as some people in thread called it.
That's not to say that such concept can't exist in political theory in-universe, it's entirely logical for it to be around and I recall term being used in quest. Just it's more of a point of view of some and propaganda concept rather than strictly dominant political theory.
- Location
- California
I wouldn't casually call the prophecy bullshit. Magic in this world is very capable of predicting the future, something that multiple factions (including the Empire) are happy to take advantage of.
It's entirely reasonable to see their actions in response to the prophecy as abhorrent and going too far, but treating their fear as entirely illegitimate doesn't make sense.
Now the ideal solution would be for all male magic users in Kislev to simply be trained in a separate style of magic, and that appears to be slowly happening, but the existence of any alternative schooling system for male wizards is relatively new. I also wouldn't be surprised if the vampire who seized control of Kislev had been slowing the spread of such outside training during her rule to avoid strengthening her neighbor.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
It's (probably deliberately) unclear if it's a male user of Ice Magic specifically or magic in general, and either way, the Ice Witches aren't happy about male wizards of any stripe going around in Kislev.
Doesn't necessarily mean they'll do something, but they aren't happy about it.
Doesn't necessarily mean they'll do something, but they aren't happy about it.
BagFullOfLizards
Some bag, mostly lizards
- Location
- A bag
"See, I'm exploiting the boundary between clothed and unclothed..."
