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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Wow, this vote is ridiculously close still. Guess I'll try an effort post? Hopefully it helps a little?

If I had to rank the top four, it would be Waystones = Loremaster >>>>>>>> Bodyguard > Markgraf
I am leaning slightly more towards Bodyguard over Markgraf, simply because Mathilde would get to travel around the Empire instead of stuck in Sylvania for most of her time.

Part of the reason I like the other options over Markgraf is how wide ranging they are. They don't tie Mathilde down to a small area and in comparison to the other three, it is a small area. Only Sylvanian Count would be smaller.

Waystones will mean travelling to the Eonir in Nordland, the Colleges in Altdorf and likely research posts the Jade and others have around the Empire. There's the Henge college in Nuln, I think, and the dwarves in various holds to get their runesmiths on board. There might be options to get Kislevite Ice Witches to contribute and other magic traditions.

Many groups might need a task completed first. Some of the research will almost certainly require actively searching out corrupted or broken waystones, offering many chances to shank gribblies in crypts and forests all over the Old World. There will also be lots of sweet character interactions with new and interesting people, plenty of opportunity for deep lore and world building and shiny loot.

Loremaster is very similar to the above, just focused on travelling all around the Karaz Ankor to help out in the various problems each Hold has and popping into the Empire now and again to reintroduce ourselves to the local monsters. I really love the dwarves and helping them out gets us further dwarf interactions, loot, interesting problems in many different areas and Belegar as a boss. He's perfectly happy giving us a list of problems and letting us get to them in our own time, including stuff in the Empire, which aligns perfectly with how the quest has progressed. We visit friends in the Empire now and again, if something seems serious like with Roswita, we go in and sort it out, then go back home.

Not a fan of Bodyguard. Has nothing to do with Heidi, whom I quite like, more to do with Empire politics and just not wanting to go back to the Empire when we have a cool magic tower home on top of a mountain in a reclaimed Dwarfhold. Same as why I don't like Markgraf as well. One thing Bodyguard has over Markgraf is plenty of travel around the Empire, interesting problems in many different areas, loot and Empire favour. Also helping to make sure Mandred has enough support among the Elector Counts, that he is guaranteed to be voted next Emperor even if he isn't yet old enough. Only thing is, they don't really need the help all that desperately. It also has us interacting with the average human when they generally don't like wizards, as Mathilde has mentioned before.

Markgraf of Sylvania has plenty of travel through the scenic undead infested bogs, swamps and forests of Sylvania. Possibly to some of the border provinces, but mostly just Sylvania. Get to deal with Sylvanian nobility and peasantry as a Stirlandian Grey Wizard and Stirlandian Military Governor. We'll be in charge of smoothing relations between the occupying forces of Sylvania and the occupied.

We'll have to investigate the nobles, the peasants, the towns and every shady tower and old castle or ruin in the place. There'll probably be plenty of loot, just most of it will be necromantic, vampiric and almost certainly full of Dhar. There'll be little chance to research while inside Sylvania due to the massive amounts of Dhar. Sylvania has had multiple years of grinding warfare wrecking it, and it was controlled by vampires and necromancers before that, so a lot of infrastructure needs building. Mathilde will have to oversee that or get people to oversee that. She has more or less free reign to do as she wants in Sylvania, so long as it keeps the lid on all the horrors lurking in the undergrowth.

Compare that to how much freedom of movement and options she has in any of the other jobs, even Bodyguard.

So, yeah, here's an effort post. I hope it didn't come off as too agressive or preachy? I don't think it did, but you never can tell sometimes.
 
BoneyM said:
The Elder takes a breath, and tells High King Thorgrim Grudgebearer of the Wizard that each of the twenty thousand remaining Dwarves of Karak Vlag know to be their saviour.
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Holy shit. That's a lot of dwarves! I wouldn't be suprised if someone told me that that's a whole percentage point increase in the Dwarven population. That'd put the total population of dwarves at around 2 million, which could be low; I'm not actually sure how populous the dwarves are at this stage? Anyone have an idea? The most populous Dwarven city is Karaz-a-Karak, which is a 100k if I my memory serves. 2m dwarves would fill 20 Karaks of that size, and I know they other holds are signicantly smaller and I don't think there's any more than 30 or 40 holds left(including minor ones) right?

Edit: found a Boney Quote:
BoneyM said:
The population of the Karaz Ankor is about one million Dwarves, give or take. Karak Vlag didn't really have a 'Silver Age' since it was so far from the Empire, it was only really starting to benefit from relations with Kislev when it got yoinked. So it was the least populous of the Major Holds even before Asavar Kul.
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That makes 20k about a 2% bump in the population of Karaz Ankor dwarves in the old world. Crazy.

By contrast, that'd be like if America suddenly found a lost city with 6.8 million citizens in it.
 
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[X] Bodyguard and Tutor to Prince Mandred
[X] Loremaster-at-Large of Karak Eight Peaks

I have a preference for solo/small group adventures compared to managing organizations. The fight against Alkharad and his College is my favorite part of the quest looking back, even though the Sword of Gazul's activation was more hype at the time. My hope is these options will steer towards more of those. Not that any of these couldn't be fun.

Honestly, though, I'm voting more to be part of the vote than to express my preferences. It's exciting!
 
Absoloot said:
Holy shit. That's a lot of dwarves! I wouldn't be suprised if someone told me that that's a whole percentage point increase in the Dwarven population. That'd put the total population of dwarves at around 2 million, which could be low; I'm not actually sure how populous the dwarves are at this stage? Anyone have an idea? The most populous Dwarven city is Karaz-a-Karak, which is a 100k if I my memory serves. 2m dwarves would fill 20 Karaks of that size, and I know they other holds are signicantly smaller and I don't think there's any more than 30 or 40 holds left(including minor ones) right?
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It's about a two percent increase for Karaz Ankor.

BoneyM said:
The population of the Karaz Ankor is about one million Dwarves, give or take. Karak Vlag didn't really have a 'Silver Age' since it was so far from the Empire, it was only really starting to benefit from relations with Kislev when it got yoinked. So it was the least populous of the Major Holds even before Asavar Kul.
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How much it reperesents to the Dwarves in general is a decent bit less than that. Though I'm not sure how big the population of Imperial dwarves and others are, considering they often make up a decent portion of some cities there's a solid chunk of them though.
 
Come on, ditch the front runners, go for Bodyguard!

[x] Bodyguard and Tutor to Prince Mandred
[x] Spymaster of Wissenland
[x] Ranaldian High Priest of Kislev
 
Adhoc vote count started by Abhorsen on Mar 8, 2021 at 12:32 AM, finished with 2918 posts and 563 votes.
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Come on Bodyguard voters! If anyone's approval voting Waystones to keep Edgelord out of first, if you all change to just Bodyguard then it might take the lead!

...I wonder how much of this vote looks the way it does because of approval voting faff-ery. Gods it reminds me of the stock market...

Hold on you Diamond Hands! Hold!
Mister Phantom said:
[X] Research Sabbatical
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Could I convince you to approval vote Bodyguard or Loremaster-at-Large, by any chance? Bodyguard is noted by Heidi as having a lot of free time as one of it's perks, and we'd spend a lot of it in Altdorf where we have plenty of research opportunities. (Loremaster has some of the same advantages, not that I want it to win, but I have to acknowledge them to be fair).

As it is, Research Sabbatical has about as much chance of winning as, uh, *insert witty metaphor here*, so you're voting for basically nothing.

Unless that was the intent, in which case you're braver than me.

Edit: If anyone is even remotely considering voting for Bodyguard and/or is open to being convinced and/or wants some positive reasons why, ping me and I'll try to come up with something. Maybe. Eventually. I am about to sleep now so it might take awhile for me to get back around to it. But I'll come up with something!
 
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Hmm, looks in favor of the Waystones for most of the last 24 hours.

Not really my cup of tea, project-manager is just not an interesting position compared to doing things yourself, for me at least.
I guess compared to the direct rulership in the Markgraf scenario it leaves at least a bit more adventure-time.

But to be honest, I keep hoping for the Bodyguard job to make a comeback, so we can keep the management to a minimum (only the Emperor's bodyguards as "our" people to choose, vet and train).
 
People have been posting all kind of stuff about why the Sylvania thing is terrible, or just a governorship, etc, etc. How other people are better suited.

Here's the thing: They've all already tried. And every time the Empire tries to ram Sigmar down the throat of Sylvania, it fails. Hells, even back in history, Sylvania was added to the Empire through conquest, and it doesn't even have it's own EC. Is it any wonder they fail every time?

You want to know what Mat can do? She can Protect. She can instill the values of a God that hates tyrannts, and you know what damn near every Vampire is to mortals? A tyranny. Ulricans embrace survival, so they bend their neck before a superior predator. Sigmarism has built in "respect the authority" for them to exploit. You want to end Sylvania? You need someone like Mat to do it.

In order:
1) Someone immune to the ambient Dhar, thus un-corruptible by the very soil they walk, the air they breathe and the water they drink. This is problem number one, and without something like the Belt to shield them, any other Markgraf will eventually fall to ambient corruption, if they don't die first. This means that exactly the kind of capable, exceptional people that could fix Sylvania in the long term, will fail because it takes so long and the land is poison. This is the Ur-problem, and why every effort before failed.
2) The Coin is a Divine artifact tailor made for breaking long term abusive conditioning and Lahmian mind-control. Again and again and again, Mat can bash everyone, everyone, every dirty peasant, every greedy merchant, every brainwashed cultists and terrified parent, that She is Here To Help. Not Tax them. Exploit them. Rule them. She's here to Help. To Liberate. Except for the slot somehow galling to another Priest of Ranald, no one else can say that because everyone else is there to conquer for Stirland and the Empire. But Rosvita told Mat: Do what you have to, just by Sigmar, no more Vampires! Mat alone was given the trust and latitude to do what has to be done to avtually fix Stirland, not just further stomp down on it, until another Vamp comes along to "free" them from the Empire boot.
3) The EIC is supremely positioned to expand into Sylvania and few in the Empire can call on dwarven aid in rebuilding the cursed place.
4) Mat has decent insight into Undead strategic and tactical operations, as noted on her character sheet. As well as above abundant Morite lore, Undead Lore and Von Carstain Lore, all of which is likely to be really helpful in dealing with Sylvania. As well as decent diplomatic insight into Stirlanders, Halflings and dwarves, which makes up most of her new neighbors.
5) And let's not forget why Sylvania became the way it is. You want to fight Rats? I'll bet you we'll be up to our tits in rats in clearing Sylvania. They can't stay away from all that tasty, tasty Warpstone. Which is another thing Mat is firmly suited to dealing with. Who else is an expect of fighting both Skaven and Undead?
6) As for faith, both the ambitious (let's make Mat a God of Stirland) and the more down to earth (create a Province in the Empire that worships Ranald) will help our most annoying friend. Perhaps even more than being High Priest of Ranald. And Mat emphasasing his role as Protector so much will annoy the bugger right back. Smarmy git.
 
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[x] Bodyguard and Tutor to Prince Mandred

Cmooon, this is a chance to ensure an Emperor potentially even better then Karl Franz to stand against Archaon if he rises here. Not to mention it allows us to do all the other fun stuff in the Empire without getting tied to one or the other.
 
primemountain said:
People have been posting all kind of stuff about why the Sylvania thing is terrible, or just a governorship, etc, etc. How other people are better suited.

Here's the thing: They've all already tried. And every time the Empire tries to ram Sigmar down the throat of Sylvania, it fails. Hells, even back in history, Sylvania was added to the Empire through conquest, and it doesn't even have it's own EC. Is it any wonder they fail every time?

You want to know what Mat can do? She can Protect. She can instill the values of a God that hates tyrannts, and you know what damn near every Vampire is to mortals? A tyranny. Ulricans embrace survival, so they bend their neck before a superior predator. Sigmarism has built in "respect the authority" for them to exploit. You want to end Sylvania? You need someone like Mat to do it.

In order:
1) Someone immune to the ambient Dhar, thus un-corruptible by the very soil they walk, the air they breathe and the water they drink. This is problem number one, and without something like the Belt to shield them, any other Markgraf will eventually fall to ambient corruption, if they don't die first. This means that exactly the kind of capable, exceptional people that could fix Sylvania in the long term, will fail because it takes so long and the land is poison. This is the Ur-problem, and why every effort before failed.
2) The Coin is a Divine artifact tailor made for breaking long term abusive conditioning and Lahmian mind-control. Again and again and again, Mat can bash everyone, everyone, every dirty peasant, every greedy merchant, every brainwashed cultists and terrified parent, that She is Here To Help. Not Tax them. Exploit them. Rule them. She's here to Help. To Liberate. Except for the slot somehow galling to another Priest of Ranald, no one else can say that because everyone else is there to conquer for Stirland and the Empire. But Rosvita told Mat: Do what you have to, just by Sigmar, no more Vampires! Mat alone was given the trust and latitude to do what has to be done to avtually fix Stirland, not just further stomp down on it, until another Vamp comes along to "free" them from the Empire boot.
3) The EIC is supremely positioned to expand into Sylvania and few in the Empire can call on dwarven aid in rebuilding the cursed place.
4) Mat has decent insight into Undead strategic and tactical operations, as noted on her character sheet. As well as above abundant Morite lore, Undead Lore and Von Carstain Lore, all of which is likely to be really helpful in dealing with Sylvania. As well as decent diplomatic insight into Stirlanders, Halflings and dwarves, which makes up most of her new neighbors.
5) And let's not forget why Sylvania became the way it is. You want to fight Rats? I'll bet you we'll be up to our tits in rats in clearing Sylvania. They can't stay away from all that tasty, tasty Warpstone. Which is another thing Mat is firmly suited to dealing with. Who else is an expect of fighting both Skaven and Undead?
6) As for faith, both the ambitious (let's make Mat a God of Stirland) and the more down to earth (create a Province in the Empire that worships Ranald) will help our most annoying friend. Perhaps even more than being High Priest of Ranald. And Mat emphasasing his role as Protector so much will annoy the bugger right back. Smarmy git.
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Nobody's saying that Mathilde would be bad at it. However, IC, we have better things to do, and OOC, I think that other options would be more fun.

I'll begin by contesting your assertion that Mathilde is the only one that can make Sylvania functional and that this is an incredibly valuable thing for Mathilde to be doing. Roswita is already making major progress on Sylvania. That's why the job she offered us is even an option. Mathilde doesn't need to dedicate herself to the effort. I suspect that Roswita will keep making progress as long as Mathilde keeps a couple weeks open a year to smash vampires, which we've already been doing. I also think that the Empire does not need to expand any further - it's already internally divided, squabbling, and in places overextended. Further expansions will only cause problems. Taming Sylvania would be nice, but I'm not sure it's exactly the right time.

I'll continue by pointing out that the other options are far better uses of Mathilde's time. She's probably the single biggest contributor to the political relationship between the Karaz Ankor and the Empire since Sigmar himself. Continuing on that track is more valuable than anything we could possibly do to help Roswita do what she's already doing. The Waystone Project similarly promises to restart the Great Works of the Ancestor Gods and usher in a new Silver Age for the Karaz Ankor. The bodyguard project is the least impactful of the leading options, and that's because all it's doing is (narratively speaking) dramatically improving the chances that the next Emperor will be a Ranaldite and a Wizard-friend, with commensurate improvements in the stability of the Empire.

In conclusion, "important task that Mathilde is uniquely suited for" describes literally every option we've been given[1]. That's what the Lady Magister position means. On top of that, I think that the other options get more utility out of Mathilde's unique skillset.

1: Well, okay, except "take over swamp town". The look on that guy's face when he realized that he accidentally sent us that letter was hilarious.
 
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Vebyast said:
Nobody's saying that Mathilde would be bad at it. However, IC, we have better things to do, and OOC, I think that other options would be more fun.

I'll begin by contesting your assertion that Mathilde is the only one that can make Sylvania functional and that this is an incredibly valuable thing for Mathilde to be doing. Roswita is already making major progress on Sylvania. That's why the job she offered us is even an option. Mathilde doesn't need to dedicate herself to the effort. I suspect that Roswita will keep making progress as long as Mathilde keeps a couple weeks open a year to smash vampires, which we've already been doing. I also think that the Empire does not need to expand any further - it's already internally divided, squabbling, and in places overextended. Further expansions will only cause problems. Taming Sylvania would be nice, but I'm not sure it's exactly the right time.

I'll continue by pointing out that the other options are far better uses of Mathilde's time. She's probably the single biggest contributor to the political relationship between the Karaz Ankor and the Empire since Sigmar himself. Continuing on that track is more valuable than anything we could possibly do to help Roswita do what she's already doing. The Waystone Project similarly promises to restart the Great Works of the Ancestor Gods and usher in a new Silver Age for the Karaz Ankor. The bodyguard project is the least impactful of the leading options, and that's because all it's doing is (narratively speaking) dramatically improving the chances that the next Emperor will be a Ranaldite and a Wizard-friend, with commensurate improvements in the stability of the Empire.

In conclusion, "important task that Mathilde is uniquely suited for" describes literally every option we've been given[1]. That's what the Lady Magister position means. On top of that, I think that the other options get more utility out of Mathilde's unique skillset.

1: Well, okay, except "take over swamp town". The look on that guy's face when he realized that he accidentally sent us that letter was hilarious.
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It's worth noting, the benefit of taming Sylvania absolutely isn't that it's fresh clay for the empire to expand into, it's that it will stop producing vampires. Vampires which are semi regularly caltrops beneath the hooves of entire provinces, and indeed recently almost pulled off a plot to subvert the empress (not that we're ones to judge).
 
Look people, we don't need a better Emperor than Karl Franz to face down Archaon because clearly the moment Archaon is about to win, Grimgor will body him, just like in Storm of Chaos. : )

More seriously, I highly doubt Edgelord does more for Ranald than the High Priestess position. Not only does HP smooth over a divine kerfuffle, which is a stupidly rare opportunity, but I'm pretty sure Kislev has way more warm bodies to convert than Sylvania. One's a country. The other's Sylvania.
 
Talon TigerDino said:
Look people, we don't need a better Emperor than Karl Franz to face down Archaon because clearly the moment Archaon is about to win, Grimgor will body him, just like in Storm of Chaos. : )

More seriously, I highly doubt Edgelord does more for Ranald than the High Priestess position. Not only does HP smooth over a divine kerfuffle, which is a stupidly rare opportunity, but I'm pretty sure Kislev has way more warm bodies to convert than Sylvania. One's a country. The other's Sylvania.
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I thought we stopped Grimgor from being a thing when we got in the way of the Only Gork ritual? Same as with stopping Skarsnick since Only Mork won't be either?
 
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