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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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DragonParadox said:
Is it though? What do we want tom Rikeland? It's already friendly to wizards, it does not persecute Ranaldians... What policy of theirs do we want to change?
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The ability to be listened to when we try to aim the strongest army in the Empire at one issue or another. I mean, obviously, he won't go to unnecessary war on say so of fairy god mother, but he might lend support to something he otherwise would not, like joint assault on something with army of Wissenland. Paring down a very strong in with one of the 15 or so most powerful movers and shakers of the Empire into just getting vote on some policies is kinda doing it disservice.
 
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DragonParadox said:
Is it though? What do we want tom Rikeland? It's already friendly to wizards, it does not persecute Ranaldians... What policy of theirs do we want to change?
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Kick the Theogenist out of Altdorf? ;-)

More seriously, it's not about a big plan now, it's about getting into a better position in general and then, when something comes up that could be achieved using the kind if influence an important EC can throw around, we can take the opportunity.

I really like Heidi's approach in this case. Have some aces up your sleeve and wait for the time to play them.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Kick the Theogenist out of Altdorf? ;-)

More seriously, it's not about a big plan now, it's about getting into a better position in general and then, when something comes up that could be achieved using the kind if influence an important EC can throw around, we can take the opportunity.

I really like Heidi's approach in this case. Have some aces up your sleeve and wait for the time to play them.
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Like for instance, this puts us into the position of maybe pushing for Mandred to become page to Belegar as a teen, giving Mandred some experience dealing with Dwarfs and giving Belegar a working relationship with the future Emperor, if we want to push the 'Belegar as Thorgrim's heir' thing.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Kick the Theogenist out of Altdorf? ;-)

More seriously, it's not about a big plan now, it's about getting into a better position in general and then, when something comes up that could be achieved using the kind if influence an important EC can throw around, we can take the opportunity.

I really like Heidi's approach in this case. Have some aces up your sleeve and wait for the time to play them.
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Well yeah, but do we want any of the things Heidi wants? I struggle to see a situation where we would need an army for K8P and the Elector of Reikland would not move from religious obligation or the promise of dwarf rewards but would move because Mathy used to read him bedtime stories.
 
Rafin said:
I'm a bit confused why, if Star Dragons used to leave this planet even when it was a low resource ice ball, they don't anymore. You'd expect them to stick around, mate a few times, raise a couple generations and then leave once they are sure they leave behind enough adults to teach the remaining young ones how to spacefare properly.
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The crux there lies in what they need planets for. Can't be biomass, and if they nested on the iceball they can't be too picky.

Given the highly magic adaptable nature of basically every bit of their biology, I'd guess they spend the years absorbing magical/psychic energy at a rate that allows them to maintain a coherent identity and form. Its implied that since Wind dragons are planetbound, they then need this energy to survive, which presumably they can get by diving into the Warp once matured.

Raw Immaterium is too overwhelming for any but their mature forms. Dhar corrupts, which might hint at why Sun and Moon dragons don't head to space anymore with the literal Dhar radiating moon. The Winds work and are plentiful, but limited in sources to this one rock. The Gods are even worse, even ignoring the Four, as you'd be permanent servants/slaves.
If you're stuck slurping up the dregs of Earthbound magic to evolve you're going to be here a long ass time without some way to get balanced doses of the Winds without Dhar.


tapkomet said:
I mean, Swamp Town largely will, I think, as it would be a huge hassle to go back to K8P, which is where all our infrastructure and other wizards are. Other jobs will likely entail a significant amount of work towards achieving primary goals, especially Border Princess, which would require the most work to maintain a foothold
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The Sylvania/Swamp Town/Mad Dog Pass routes likely have a hefty up front AP cost, but offers the most long term freedoms once things stabilize a bit and you delegate out the tasks, I think
 
DragonParadox said:
Well yeah, but do we want any of the things Heidi wants? I struggle to see a situation where we would need an army for K8P and the Elector of Reikland would not move from religious obligation or the promise of dwarf rewards but would move because Mathy used to read him bedtime stories.
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Do you think there will never be an Empire-wide law we want passed or blocked?

He will have one of the few votes during any Elector-Meet, like the one that got Abelhelm his job and the one that chose not to give Belegar an army.
 
pucflek said:
Like, as i understand it, we would be supposed to make sure this part is mostly safe (Made the circle bit too big, its not supposed to go as far as Iron Rock. Maybe i am overstating the size of what we would have to take care of?

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wrong shape

this is wants to be expected of mathy:



what is wanted is control of the roads and rivers, personally or by vessaling the princes around them. no one cares about the inland bits.

and if successful mathy's territory would look like this in the far future.


again, only the area around the rivers and roads, as the only the roads and rivers are worth having because you can tax the trade. or run trade protection, or just run the trade yourself. the inland bits are not worth it.

now, once you do control the good bit, then it's worth looking at the rest, if only to get ride of the orcs and undesirables that are there.
 
DragonParadox said:
Well yeah, but do we want any of the things Heidi wants? I struggle to see a situation where we would need an army for K8P and the Elector of Reikland would not move from religious obligation or the promise of dwarf rewards but would move because Mathy used to read him bedtime stories.
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He might not move because of the dwarf rewards and religious obligations, but he might move because of dwarf rewards, religious obligations and his trusted mentor telling him its totally a good idea. Its not about being a sole determinant, its about being able to say something might be a good idea and that ending up being added to list of pros in the decision making process of the guy.

I don't see how it couldn't help.

Jyn Ryvia said:
now, once you do control the good bit, then it's worth looking at the rest, if only to get ride of the orcs and undesirables that are there.
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Thats literally impossible to control.
 
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tapkomet said:
I mean, Swamp Town largely will, I think, as it would be a huge hassle to go back to K8P, which is where all our infrastructure and other wizards are. Other jobs will likely entail a significant amount of work towards achieving primary goals, especially Border Princess, which would require the most work to maintain a foothold
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We don't actually need that infrastructure to do research. If we want it, we can probably pony up the DF to get some built in Swamp Town (with a hefty travelling expenses fee for the trouble.) Dwarven ships can happily go all the way to Lustria.
DragonParadox said:
Well yeah, but do we want any of the things Heidi wants? I struggle to see a situation where we would need an army for K8P and the Elector of Reikland would not move from religious obligation or the promise of dwarf rewards but would move because Mathy used to read him bedtime stories.
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The wonderful thing about political favours and influence is that they're generally pretty flexible in our use. If we decide to aim for Supreme Matriarch, or to get Ranald instated as more official, or any number of other goals, this would help with that.

This is, of course, putting aside how you are talking up some frankly very unlikely possibilities to justify the claim that we should not plan with the expectation that Mandred will be Emperor, which remains extremely dubious.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
We don't actually need that infrastructure to do research. If we want it, we can probably pony up the DF to get some built in Swamp Town (with a hefty travelling expenses fee for the trouble.) Dwarven ships can happily go all the way to Lustria.
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We spent an absolutely disgusting amount of time and effort and arguing in thread over what tower to build next and what not. I do not want to go through that again because it was straight up the most unfun and tedious part of the quest for me.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
this is wants to be expected of mathy:
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I'm really confused as to how you got Skull River and blood river out of this:
King Byrrnoth Grundadrakk of Barak Varr wishes to make you aware that support would be available should an Umgi of proven trustworthiness seek dominion over the territories of the western end of Mad Dog Pass, near the banks of the Howling River.
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Deathbybunnies said:
The wonderful thing about political favours and influence is that they're generally pretty flexible in our use. If we decide to aim for Supreme Matriarch, or to get Ranald instated as more official, or any number of other goals, this would help with that.

This is, of course, putting aside how you are talking up some frankly very unlikely possibilities to justify the claim that we should not plan with the expectation that Mandred will be Emperor, which remains extremely dubious.
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The setting is called Warhammer, not Happy Kitty Hammer. Wilhelm dying tomorrow would not shock anyone, it would sadden plenty pf people but with all the enemies the Empire rakes up it would not be shocking. Incompetent heirs are common enough to make a stereotype of and unwilling heirs are certainly not unheard of. I'm honestly not seeing where you get very unlikely from.
 
DragonParadox said:
Well yeah, but do we want any of the things Heidi wants? I struggle to see a situation where we would need an army for K8P and the Elector of Reikland would not move from religious obligation or the promise of dwarf rewards but would move because Mathy used to read him bedtime stories.
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Because he'd know and hopefully trust and like Mathilde whilst Belegar would be this short, beardy guy many hundred miles away?

It is hard to overstate the importance of proximity - that's why being attached to the Imperial Household or to an Elector Count or being an ambassador or high priest is rather important. It means we can have direct access to the movers and shakers of the Old World (with obviously greater focus on certain groups depending on posting) which means we'd get first dibs on any opportunities.

Deathbybunnies said:
We don't actually need that infrastructure to do research. If we want it, we can probably pony up the DF to get some built in Swamp Town (with a hefty travelling expenses fee for the trouble.) Dwarven ships can happily go all the way to Lustria.
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Swamp town literally takes us continents away from any source of aid or known research opportunities. Working with the Eonir? Gone. Having access to Kragg, Thorek and any Dawi related opportunities? Gone. College related stuff? Largely gone.

It takes literally months to cross the ocean; this means that besides whatever staff Mathilde can bring with her (which is going to be rather extensive if we want to because of all the favours and money we've got) any other interactions with the Old World will be logistically difficult.

We'd need to start from scratch - with an admittedly very hefty starting budget - which has its own upsides and downsides.
 
Chlof said:
I'm really confused as to how you got Skull River and blood river out of this:
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because I'm bad at drawing:

I'm just talking about generally: people want us to take over the land around the roads and rivers to protect the trade: e.g the good bits.

and if you look at the detailed map of the empire, only controlling the good bits is enough to 'be in charge'

in Warhammer, even the empire doesn't have 'total control of the territory, no one is expecting that from mathy.

... why am I arguing this? I want to become Edgelord of vampire town. not princess mathy.
 
The idea that the Emperor will just fiat be Mandred and he will inherit a non-inheritable title sure is interesting, if Mandred is emperor after his fathers death that will be because of the alliances and political back room dealings prior, The emperor does not pass down a line of inheritance a replacement is voted on by the Electors it may be that said replacement is indeed the Son or daughter of the previous Emperor but it's not a requirement on any level.

So yea I'm pretty on board with saying actually no we're not raising the next emperor. Also Ranald isn't a fate god, he's about opportunity and stacking the deck a little. THere's absolutely no certainty here.
 
I mean Border Princes is pretty marginal land that is true but have you guys forgotten we did kinda solved food supply problem like 10 turns ago. Rememeber the Skaven Ooze? That would ensure we can feed any army we station there even if farming can't handle it.
 
I'd just like to point out that even if Mandred will inevitably become Emperor, that's not likely to happen for another 50 turns or so.

That is, far longer than this entire quest so far.

The actual payoff to this posting may very well be actual IRL years from now, assuming we even get there.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
in Warhammer, even the empire doesn't have 'total control of the territory, no one is expecting that from mathy.
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Frankly, it's not "even" the empire, it's ESPECIALLY the empire. Basically every other polity has WAY better control over their own hinterlands, because the age of the three emperors was hell on 'the' empire's ability to actually fight back against the forests.

Frankly the border princes despite their political fragmentation are better off here, because the land being shit means there's very little forest for gribblies.
 
Alivaril mentioned the "top quests" on the site in the thread for his new quest, and it got me curious. After checking, I noticed that Divided Loyalties is doing really well by most metrics and might be n°1 quest on the site soon-ish.

Sorting by views: Divided Loyalties is either n°2 or n°3. The Long Night + sequel might be enough to take the n°2 spot by a bit if you count them as a unit. There is a sizeable gap separating it from the n°1 spot, which is held by A Sword Without A Hilt (a quest with a much small playerbase, but an insane update rate). However Divided Loyalties is a lot more recent than the other top quests, so if things continue at this rate it'll outpace them both! FYI, Divided Loyalties started in 2018, while A Sword Without A Hilt started in 2016 and Puella Magi Adfligo Systema and The Long Night both started in 2014. The 5th and 6th position quests (Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism and Marked For Death) both started in 2015 and don't look like they'll be overtaking the others soon.

Sorting by replies: Here Divided Loyalties is secure in its n°2 spot, with a massive lead that is steadily widening. It's further from beating ASWAH than in the "views" metric, but it's also advancing a lot faster so if things don't change it should overtake it soon-ish too. The general ranking doesn't change that much, although we see some dead quests like Paths of Civilisation come back into the rankings (it's n°5).

Sorting by first message reaction score: I don't like this metric, because many quests have a first message that's a bland informational post or un-fun character creation, and that therefore gets fewer internet points. Indeed, here we see lots of quests that started strong (immediately start with a very fun chapter) but which are absent from the top ranking in other metrics - for example the n°1 quest is "Battle Action Harem Highschool Side Character Quest (No SV, you are the Waifu)" which absolutely crushes the runner-ups, Rhunrikki Strollar (n°2) and Divided Loyalties (n°3). This also applies further down the rankings: the impressive art quest Terrene Spire is on the first page, as is the long-dead Orochimaru quest Shed Skin. This is also affected by author "fame": the number five is UnwelcomeStorm's very short quest, which never went far but surged to a strong start with all the Worm fans he brought from his fanfics.
By this metric Divided Loyalties probably won't be n°1 anytime soon, unless every reader goes back to react to the first message just to achieve that ;)

EDIT: To be clear, when I say Divided Loyalties will be n°1 "soon-ish", I mean "in several months, assuming the current breakneck pace continues". ASWAH is absolutely huge, updates three times a day, and has a two year head start. Divided Loyalties progresses faster, but every hiatus lets ASWAH increase its lead by a fair bit.
Not that this is a competition, of course. I follow both quests, and like them both quite a lot.
 
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So, thinking through the options once again, it seems like any job we take will require the following things:

1) The ability and time to burn through our research backlog. Great Library/Research Institute Boons&Deeds may help with that, if we can ever decided how to spend them.
2) The ability to maintain our personal connections in K8P and Stirland, and maybe keep in touch with our expedition friends (Snori, Egrimm, Baba Baddass).
3) The ability to make a start on the Waystone project.
4) The ability to take advantage of opportunities that raise the profile of both Wizards and Ranald within the empire.
5) The ability to fight the enemies of both mankind and dwarfkind.
6) The ability to develop new lines of magical and divine research.
7) The ability to become an immortal vampire/necromancer, destroy the cult of Sigmar and bring back Van Hel.

Lustira is unfortunately out. It sounds cool, will open up new lines of research and DEEP LORE, but it's on the other side of the world and means putting everything back home on pause for a decade or so. However, if we did do this, we could potentially turn this into a very powerful and wealthy stronghold for the Empire in the New World, particularly if we can set up trade routes with Ulthan and maybe the Lizardmen?

Nuln and Sylvania fit very well; in one post we're an adviser to one of the most powerful men in the Empire and protecting the empires industrial heart from the shadows, in the other we're the public leader of what's easily the worst territory in the Empire, but we have the skills, knowledge and connections to make it work, and it's the only place Battle Wizards are allowed to hang out, and having us sort of in charge of them will be a political benefit. Of the two I'm leaning into Nuln, even though we'll have more personal power in Sylvania. Both will give us lots of opportunities for all the points above.

High Priest will probably change how some people interact with us, but opens up new lines of inquiry into gods, lets us work with other religious groups like the Ice Witches and maybe the Eonir (If they are willing to worship Ulric, maybe they could worship Ranald? Then again, they already worship Loec). Politically controversial in-universe, but I don't see it interfering with any of the requirements.

The border princes is an opportunity to create and shape our very own princedom in our image. Public temples to ranald, Duckling court, economic and military support from two Karaks (although one will come with strings attached) and an elite army of wolf riders. However, there's basically no infrastructure, constant threats and incompetent underlings. A decade from now and this will be a potent base to operate from, but we'll have to put a lot of research projects on pause to build up and manage this realm.

The diplomat role is probably the most flexible option, and would see us touring the Karaks to secure help and aid for the Empire whilst troubleshooting any issues that crop up, but it doesn't feel exciting to me.

Tutoring Mandred. This honestly depends on how much free time we have, how much time we spend as Hilda's left hand, and how much time we spend as the Emperors Spymistress. There could be a lot of potential here for intrigue and courtly drama, as well as research and collage activities. Getting closer to a future candidate for the imperial throne would be a very good for future prospects.

Honestly, a lot of these positions sound like the next step on the ladder upwards, not the final step itself. Each one will, when we've cleared the initial problems of the role and got it running semi-autonomously, like we did in K8P, will give us massive advantages to wherever we end up going next.

And we haven't even seen the offers from Thorgrim or the Collages yet (hell, Algard and Dagomas might want us for different projects!) and we have the elfcation coming up.
 
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