Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Go tell Karaz Ankor passerby,
The argument that Mathilde could find out WTF is going on by a few hours of sneaking around Dum… is unconvincing.
The Expedition needs Mathilde. And there is almost immeasurable good she can do completely unrelated to this particular mystery.
Shes pretty much the player character.. and id prefer to continue adventuring as her instead of Wolf.

And we're not leaving any Borek stuff. We will list it down, open a safe deposit account back at K8P in his name.

I do not fancy leaving anything to be missused by chaos boys.

[x] Leave
 
They move 4 miles an hour, while we travel 25. That is to say, for every 6 hours they go, we do in one. Or their travel per day is one and a half hours for Mathilde.

Yes, but if something went wrong before this she was in sight of help, or a dragon strafing run. Now she'd be on her own with a large stretch of hell between her and the rest of the expedition.
 
Y'know...

Even if we have to leave now, we could probably come back over a long weekend.

If we get a Gyrocopter from Karak Eight Peaks to Vlag, and use that as a stoping point to go North-East through the mountains with Shadowsteed, we could probably make the trip in 3-4 days.
 
How sure are you that they're using Chaos?
Binding/controlling a daemon is inherently using chaos. Thinking you can do it safely/without actually using chaos is one of Chaos's marketing ploys.

The Divine aura emanating from Dum is not Chaos; it repels Chaos. It gives Chaos swirlies in the boys' bathroom after gym class.
We have no way to know if it repels chaos, just that it isn't one of the 4 (we couldn't rule out Hashut, for example). My guess is that it is really Morghur's divine power as a demigod.
 
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Ultimately, I think we have enough answers that it'd be very difficult to justify staying any longer, given the sheer risk involved. Karak Dum has probably not fallen, but they've clearly put themselves in a position where they don't want to talk to other dwarves. Trying to force contact would be extremely dangerous and likely fatal.

We have a duty to everyone we asked to come on this expedition, as well as everyone who agreed to come on it, period. And unlike Borek, we actually give a damn about them. Let's not be like that backstabbing bastard Borek.

Consider it this way: Belegar would not want us to put ourselves and our entire expedition at such great risk unnecessarily. We've gone above and beyond our mission; let's not let curiosity kill the cat.
 

[X]Last Minute
[X]Make a speech. I need 5 days, I don't know what is going on, but from what I noticed Moegur is shackeled, I want to get Borek's side of the story, how Karak Dum came to this, we owe them that much, Karak Dum even now still performances its duties protecting Karak Azkar, and if there are innocent lives to save I will save them, with or without you. The worse dangers are over for all of you since Karak vlag, I need time to infiltrate safely and either save lives or get information on our enemies.


[X] Hold a emergency council meeting with everyone important
-[x] Show them evidence, of a divine being fighting chaos itself
-[x] Ask for ways if anyone can detect Hashut's presence on the divine energy.
-[x] theorize that a elven god is involve, and that Borek was worried due to beastmen involvment that will label them as outcasts. Swear them to secrecy and tell them about the dwarves containing a energy source, that powers the weapon that defeated the Waagh, on how the energy remains pure. the energy comes from Karak Dum to Karak Vlag, which remains uncorrupted so you have hope that Karak Dum has not fallen yet.
-[x] Mentioned Morghur's affectionate gesture towards Borek

[X]Attempt to approach Morghur to see if he can be communicated with
-[x] Attempt to use rock letters or message arrows, in as many languages as possible
-[x] Approach with your personal banner and banners of whatever represents the expedition and the dwarves.

[X] Continue investigating the bones for signs of mutation the rapid ones, from the recent battle, collect specimens.

[x] Experiment with magic
-[x]From a safe border , ride your shadow horse, have Max analyze bones, create a matrix.
-[x] ride shadow horse to forest non aggressively, during your attempted diplomacy.
-[x] release magic matrix to test what happens, experiment with a minor magical artifact to see what happens
-[x]Tell everyone your preparing to infiltrate Karak Dum with magic if needed.

[X] LAST: Attempt to infiltrate Karag Dum with magic
 
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Y'know...

Even if we have to leave now, we could probably come back over a long weekend.

If we get a Gyrocopter from Karak Eight Peaks to Vlag, and use that as a stoping point to go North-East through the mountains with Shadowsteed, we could probably make the trip in 3-4 days.
Boney has been very clear that we absolutely unequivocally cannot cross the Chaos Wastes alone. If we leave, we're never coming back.
 
Y'know...

Even if we have to leave now, we could probably come back over a long weekend.

If we get a Gyrocopter from Karak Eight Peaks to Vlag, and use that as a stoping point to go North-East through the mountains with Shadowsteed, we could probably make the trip in 3-4 days.
As I just mentioned, this isn't the case. It's now or never.
 
[X]Make a speech. I need 5 days, I don't know what is going on, but from what I noticed Moegur is shackeled, I want to get Borek's side of the story, how Karak Dum came to this, we owe them that much, Karak Dum even now still performances its duties protecting Karak Azkar, and if there are innocent lives to save I will save them, with or without you. The worse dangers are over for all of you since Karak vlag, I need time to infiltrate safely and either save lives or get information on our enemies.


[X] Hold a emergency council meeting with everyone important
-[x] Show them evidence, of a divine being fighting chaos itself
-[x] Ask for ways if anyone can detect Hashut's presence on the divine energy.
-[x] theorize that a elven god is involve, and that Borek was worried due to beastmen involvment that will label them as outcasts. Swear them to secrecy and tell them about the dwarves containing a energy source, that powers the weapon that defeated the Waagh, on how the energy remains pure. the energy comes from Karak Dum to Karak Vlag, which remains uncorrupted so you have hope that Karak Dum has not fallen yet.
-[x] Mentioned Morghur's affectionate gesture towards Borek

[X]Attempt to approach Morghur to see if he can be communicated with
-[x] Attempt to use rock letters or message arrows, in as many languages as possible
-[x] Approach with your personal banner and banners of whatever represents the expedition and the dwarves.

[X] Continue investigating the bones for signs of mutation the rapid ones, from the recent battle, collect specimens.

[x] Experiment with magic
-[x]From a safe border , ride your shadow horse, have Max analyze bones, create a matrix.
-[x] ride shadow horse to forest non aggressively, during your attempted diplomacy.
-[x] release magic matrix to test what happens, experiment with a minor magical artifact to see what happens
-[x]Tell everyone your preparing to infiltrate Karak Dum with magic if needed.

[X] LAST: Attempt to infiltrate Karag Dum with magic
You need to vote for [] Last minute .
 
Binding/controlling a daemon is inherently using chaos. Thinking you can do it safely/without actually using chaos is one of Chaos's marketing ploys.


We have no way to know if it repels chaos, just that it isn't one of the 4 (we couldn't rule out Hashut, for example). My guess is that it is really Morghur's divine power as a demigod.
Morghur doesn't have any of that any more than a chaos champion has its own unique aura. People are even calling him a demon, and those don't have unique signatures either, they are literally extensions of the four.
 
[X] Leave
[X] LAST: Approach the Kvellige camp peacefully and attempt to discuss the Karak with them
 
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Even a quick scout of the forest still means crossing 11 kilometers of desert each way. The tanks are moving south at ~6.5 kph.

I understood it as being 11 km from the mountain, a big part of that being forest with the desert forming the outer ring.

Else, it would mean that we were observing the forest from more than 10 km and Borek would have taken like an hour to reach the forest.
 
Ultimately, I think we have enough answers that it'd be very difficult to justify staying any longer, given the sheer risk involved. Karak Dum has probably not fallen, but they've clearly put themselves in a position where they don't want to talk to other dwarves. Trying to force contact would be extremely dangerous and likely fatal.

We have a duty to everyone we asked to come on this expedition, as well as everyone who agreed to come on it, period. And unlike Borek, we actually give a damn about them. Let's not be like that backstabbing bastard Borek.

Consider it this way: Belegar would not want us to put ourselves and our entire expedition at such great risk unnecessarily. We've gone above and beyond our mission; let's not let curiosity kill the cat.
They're leaving regardless. The Last Minute vote is for what we'll be doing while they're in the process of packing up to go home, if we decide to poke the mystery one last time. We're fast enough to stay for a day and catch up in an hour, anyway.
 
Warning: this is certainly putting the "fantasy" in warhammer fantasy
this is certainly putting the "fantasy" in warhammer fantasy
It doesn't work in general- in specific cases it works quite well indeed. If you take a hammer to someones kneecaps, they are going to start spilling real quick- the issue is having enough skill to balance the threat of pain, with inflicting pain, and finding the point where they start making stuff up to keep the pain away because they have nothing else to give.

One of our Staff members, @Strypgia, is a military intelligence specialist and has been for close to twenty years. He wrote a landmark post a long time ago about how no, torture never works. Then people kept on pretending it did so a few years later he wrote another one. I suggest anyone who thinks "but actually" reads them and considers deeply what they have to say. Because torture does not work, no matter how specific you'd like to get.

This discussion is otherwise over and it will not start again.

 
This puzzle has, over the course of several updates, gone from a great deal of fun to a great deal of frustration. What seems obvious to me is not so to other players (and vice-versa, I'm sure), and now if we leave it'll be without answers.

I think it was an interesting experiment, but not viable in a quest format with a large playerbase.

It's valid to vote for a specific LAST option without also voting for last minute.
Yes, but given the rest of their vote I don't believe that's what they intended to do.
 
We have no way to know if it repels chaos, just that it isn't one of the 4 (we couldn't rule out Hashut, for example). My guess is that it is really Morghur's divine power as a demigod.
Okay, we don't know for sure that the non-Chaos Divine aura terraforming the Chaos Wastes into desert is pushing back the Chaos Taint that envelops the Chaos Wastes.

But BoneyM has been consistently using terms like "relative normality" to describe Dum's surroundings, in the middle of the Chaos Wastes. That's enough for me, at least.
 
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