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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Most of the hypotheses, and all of Borek's behavior, suggest that there's nothing for the Expedition to do here. Borek is the only one to know what's going on, and he told us to leave - I'm inclined to trust his advice, even though leaving without a final confirmation about what happened rankles me on many levels.

[X] ACTION: Turn back.
 
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storryeater said:
"Therefore fall to chaos" is a huge leap, especially when the waystone is uncorrupted. It makes no sense. I get it, this guy is panic inducing, but the fact is there is no corruption, nothing indicates what they are doing is chaosy other than the way this thing looks. All magical senses turn back no extra corruption.
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He is hugging a beastman, Cloven One, first Children of Chaos and their will manifest upon the world, said monstrosity is defending the Karak. Complicated theories aside the options are:
  1. We should not trust out own senses
  2. The dwarfs have done something their kin would consider a Fall to Chaos (maybe they gained the holy grail of daemonoligy and are using hordes of beastmen safely but for the Karaz Ankor it does not matter )
 
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.

This is dangerous but from a quest perspective I really want to see whats going on here.
 
DragonParadox said:
He is hugging a beastman, Cloven One, first Children of Chaos and their will manifest upon the world, said monstrosity is defending the Karak. Complicated theories aside the options are:
  1. We should not trust out own senses
  2. The dwarfs have done something their kin would consider a Fall to Chaos (maybe they gained the holy grail of daemonoligy and are using hordes of beastmen safely but for the Karaz Ankor it does not matter )
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Borek does not ask the Ancestors for forgiveness before willingly walking into the arms of Chaos. It just fundamentally doesn't make sense.
 
So so many pages, I've had to skim to keep up. Well this may be grasping but with so little info any clue could be important. One thing I've seen brought up is the random forest and potential elf partnership. We also just bought an acorn from chaos Vegas that many speculated was from the oak of ages because of the amount of nature magic packed into it. We bought the acorn from a dark elf that would only smirk when asked what it is and where it came from. Is this relevant? Maybe, maybe not but seems to me that it could be related and hint at some connections.

(typing on mobile so I'm not double checking past posts right now but I believe what I said is accurate)
 
@BoneyM if one of the Actions talking about Valaya's hearth rune wins, can we trust Mathilde to talk around it a bit? Since there's manlings on the Council.
LightLan said:
And Horstmann is always a Chaos Cultist.
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bitch he might be
DragonParadox said:
I don't think we are dwarf like enough to care about that.
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Artemis1992 said:
I care, I am a part of Mathilde's though processes, ergo she cares at least a tiny bit.
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I actually voted to remember the 1800 gold, and if voting is how we exert pressure on Mathilde, then currently 1/155th of Mathilde's brain is thinking about all that gold we owe him
 
I find it funny that before the expedition started we were worried about Borek forcing the expedition to continue even if it was no longer feasible. Now look at us, instead of going home we decide to investigate why the scary demigod didn't kill us.

We still need to steal the grail, lets not stay too long in chaos wastes please.
 
DragonParadox said:
He is hugging a beastman, Cloven One, first Children of Chaos and their will manifest upon the world, said monstrosity is defending the Karak. Complicated theories aside the options are:
  1. We should not trust out own senses
  2. The dwarfs have done something their kin would consider a Fall to Chaos (maybe they gained the holy grail of daemonoligy and are using hordes of beastmen safely but for the Karaz Ankor it does not matter )
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Our senses tell us this isn't chaos. Its only because it looks like something that is chaos we think it is, but all our magical senses tell us is that this is just a dhar neutral big goaty boi. Its our past knowledge we should not necessarilly trust, not our senses.
 
Aranfan said:
I have no idea what is going on, and I haven't followed the conversation.

Do we have a concensus right now? I very much want to investigate further.
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If you want a snapshot of what Mathilde's mind is like, take a look into the Vote Tally.

... And don't be worried at the disturbing number of Omegahugger votes, I can assure you it doesn't mean what it usually means. You can tell by the double digit numbers...
 
Do we have any cows left, so that we could use one to test what happens when a non-dwarf approaches Cor-Dum? If not, how hard would it be to find some Kurgans and buy or steal a horse or sheep to do the same? There are supposed to be some attacking the mountain, so we might not have to go far. And the Ambers appear to have spells that would let them command the animal to walk up to the beastman. It would be an easy way to check for the corrupting aura without risking ourselves.
 
storryeater said:
Our senses tell us this isn't chaos. Its only because it looks like something that is chaos we think it is, but all our magical senses tell us is that this is just a dhar neutral big goaty boi. Its our past knowledge we should not necessarilly trust, not our senses.
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Sight: Looks like a Bestman, look at that mutated crab arm in the pic
Hearing: Sounds like a beastman
Magesight: Reality is flinching from it

Hmm... not quite as much Dhar as I was expecting

I think the judgement of out sense falls pretty firmly in he 'beastman' column.
 
Abhorsen said:
What do people to hope to gain by investigating other than satisfying their curiosity? This still remains an open question to me. I don't see how the dwarves can be rescued, as they have been dealing with chaos and so aren't going to be allowed anywhere safe other than where they are now.

Unless you believe it to be an illusion, but I see nothing that implies that. There's physical contact with the illusion, we can sense it in the winds, etc.
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To be fair, I do believe the beastmen are something else hiding under an illusion. But still. what I hope to find there includes.

  • The last redoubt of Dwarven waystone knowledge, without which we will be restarting the dwarven segment of it from scratch. I will take friction with the Karaz Ankor for this. They kept this knowledge, the world needs it regardless of Boreks view on the matter.
  • An answer from the actual dwarves trapped here whether they feel they want help - I am uncomfortable with letting Borek decide for them whether they deserve it. especially when last time we heard the answer from them it was Yes we really would like some help up here.
  • Confirmation as to whether we need Thorgrim to consider disconnecting Dum from the network on his end or not. - If you believe that they have fallen to chaos, this needs disconnecting before Chaos uses it to fuel another Vlag.
 
I also think it's notable that the information that outright disproves this trick is the facts of Borek's entrance - information no other visitor has. It's a brilliant trick, but they didn't - couldn't - plan for observers seeing the return of Borek and how he's treated.

ReImagined said:
A fall to Chaos, and what the Karaz Ankor considers an act equal to a fall to Chaos, need not to be the same things.
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DragonParadox said:
Sure it does, it involves him thinking the purpose excuses the means, that is how most daemonologists start out
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Letting Morghur stroke you like a lover is not the first step on the path to Chaos! It's not the last step! It does not happen!

There is no conceivable model of Borek that allows Morghur, evil beastman demigod, to stroke his hair! No amount of rationalising makes that make sense!

If 99 facts say that something could have happened and the 100th is not possible if that thing happened, it did not happen!
 
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DragonParadox said:
Well the solution is rather simple:

Boek hugged a beastman and said something about the ancestors forgiving him therefore Fall to Chaos, get the Book of Grudges. Done.

Now about that Golden Arm...

Seriously the details don't matter, if there are any dwarfs in there they will, be grudged onto death, except much like the Dawi Zhar the Karaz Ankor will never get that far.
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That's Chaos doom-saying of the kind that almost got Mathilde burnt at the stake.

I doubt she's going to take one look at this and immediately conclude that the Dum dwarfs fell to Chaos and need a grudging. It's counter to her entire character.

Hell, Skaven are technically beastmen, doesn't stop us from playing board games with one.
 
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DragonParadox said:
Sight: Looks like a Bestman, look at that mutated crab arm in the pic
Hearing: Sounds like a beastman
Magesight: Reality is flinching from it

Hmm... not quite as much Dhar as I was expecting

I think the judgement of out sense falls pretty firmly in he 'beastman' column.
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Only if we panic.

No matter how you slice it, no dhar, no beastman as we know them. Its their defining characteristic, as it is the reason they seem to be always chaotic evil, without it they'd be just another species. So yes, this observation matters literally more than anything else.
 
[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
 
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