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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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NexusEye said:
Are people seeing a Voting threadmark category? I'm just seeing the standard six, Threadmarks, Sidestory, Apocrypha, Media, Informational, and Staff Post.
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It was there, but only for a few minutes, before vanishing as the only Threadmark in it was de-threadmarked.
Rafin said:
Not every QM is as conscientious as you. I know that reading through ongoing quests where the QM doesn't even include info on which vote won can be confusing and irritating.
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Honestly, just having the 'voting results' spoiler is fine for me. That tells you what won already after all.

But yeah, now I notice that the tallies themselves have been getting linked, too.

But yes, threads where you can't even tell what vote won at all... =/
 
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I just realized, when we finally get up to performing the Mookery of Death, we'll be putting the cattle into a cow-ma. :V

Rafin said:
Not every QM is as conscientious as you. I know that reading through ongoing quests where the QM doesn't even include info on which vote won can be confusing and irritating.
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Sadly true. It makes catching up on some quests a bit difficult when I have to spend a couple of minutes trying to track down whichever plan or vote option won so everytime I move to the next update so I can understand what's going on and why.
 
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King Arthur said:
What if it's a large enchanted item? Like, say, an enchanted barn?

Lead the animals into the barn, make sure no one is inside, the enchantment is activated so it hits all the animals inside, then the animals are loaded into the caravan or whatever.

This method, with a stationary building, would mean you'd need to pick up the animals at a set, non changing location and you can't just grab them as you go, but it does make activating the spell on a lot of animals at once relatively easy.
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That could work, but it's very expensive for anyone who's not a Wizard, and thus part of the college favour-trading system, to purchase n enchanted item.

...Honestly, I could see the Grey College setting it up as a service at a major port to fund their other activities. Possibly getting another College to run it for a slice of the profits, to maintain their mystique.
 
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King Arthur said:
What if it's a large enchanted item? Like, say, an enchanted barn?

Lead the animals into the barn, make sure no one is inside, the enchantment is activated so it hits all the animals inside, then the animals are loaded into the caravan or whatever.

This method, with a stationary building, would mean you'd need to pick up the animals at a set, non changing location and you can't just grab them as you go, but it does make activating the spell on a lot of animals at once relatively easy.
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Hmm. Might work, though I don't think this is super practical. For one, you couldn't move it around; for two, the animals would require transportation, which isn't easy without Dwarf steam wagons; for three, perhaps most importantly, this only really helps us because it's a method of meat preservation for our carnivorous mounts where we can't otherwise acquire much preserved food (though the Dolgan might sell us some saddle sausage, I suppose, but I doubt they have that much). Most armies can prepare other kinds of long-keeping rations fairly easily.
 
tapkomet said:
Hmm. Might work, though I don't think this is super practical. For one, you couldn't move it around; for two, the animals would require transportation, which isn't easy without Dwarf steam wagons; for three, perhaps most importantly, this only really helps us because it's a method of meat preservation for our carnivorous mounts where we can't otherwise acquire much preserved food (though the Dolgan might sell us some saddle sausage, I suppose, but I doubt they have that much). Most armies can prepare other kinds of long-keeping rations fairly easily.
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There is actually one purpose I could see it being useful for- shipping the animals themselves. The difficult historical example is shipping cattle from, say, ranches in Texas to the meatpacking plants in Chicago, which was eventually solved with refrigerated railway cars and butchering the cattle on-site. I don't think meatpacking plants are a thing yet, but in theory, if there's any need to ship large amounts of cattle by the waterways, this could be useful.

Not sure there is much need, though.
 
Mopman43 said:
There is actually one purpose I could see it being useful for- shipping the animals themselves. The difficult historical example is shipping cattle from, say, ranches in Texas to the meatpacking plants in Chicago, which was eventually solved with refrigerated railway cars and butchering the cattle on-site. I don't think meatpacking plants are a thing yet, but in theory, if there's any need to ship large amounts of cattle by the waterways, this could be useful.

Not sure there is much need, though.
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I guess bringing a lot of cav to Sudenburg or on an expedition to Lustria might require something like this.
 
BoneyM said:
If it works, which would be extremely chancy, Mathilde keels over halfway across because an entire surface of Skywalks is unsustainable, which is why the spell has the targeting mechanism in the first place.
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Apologies if I'm poking something meant to be left unpoked, but I had thought it was unsustainable on the scale of the tens of minutes or hours that RoW was meant to be usable for?

I mean, maybe I should just say the whole thing I had in mind instead of asking questions about the prerequisites for it - I wouldn't want to come off like I was trying to set you up into "agreeing" to something you didn't want to regardless, since I know that's rather a severe faux pas.

My impression of this road is that it's a drop off a cliff on one side, and the other side it's just a cliff - as in, a cliff wall rising up from where the steam wagons are to the next level of the Skull Road or whatever. What I had in mind was that the steam wagons would, absolutely, try to avoid driving over the big hole in the road - I'd assume the hole that resulted in a drop off a cliff for the Urmskaladrak would naturally have to be on the "outside" of the road where the drop off the cliff is, so trying to avoid it is pretty much a no-loss scenario since it doesn't add any risk. But at the same time as they're doing that, Mathilde would be casting RoW over the specially prepared will-consistently-trigger-RoW-because-it's-uneven/inconsistent-enough surface that's been set up (which is something that could be safely tested by volunteers attached to safety ropes to confirm it consistently triggers before sending a steam wagon). Not as something intended to carry the full weight of the steam wagon while it just drives right over the hole, but as a kind of failsafe so if while they're trying to avoid the hole entirely one of them does start to go over the edge there's something there (namely, RoW) to bear the weight of that specific portion of the steam wagon only, and only for long enough for the steam wagon to course correct or just move past the danger zone.

Would that, specifically, be viable? Am I even picturing this space correctly? It feels like if I am picturing it correctly then it should be workable, because if RoW can't support part of the weight of a single steam wagon for the length of one obstacle/hazard without Mathilde passing out or collapsing then how the heck have we been using it on all of them at once for (I think) hours at a time? For RoW to be effective with the steam wagons at all then it has to be capable of supporting part of their weight at a time, because otherwise it would do nothing since that's its whole function.
 
Actually, about that saddle sausage
@BoneyM
As I understand, the reason why the MoD shenanigans might be necessary is because of the lack of preserved meat, right? Otherwise we'd just feed that to the mounts.

There is a meat preservation techniques steppe nomads are known to use called "saddle sausage" or "saddle jerky", wherein they put meat under the horse's saddle so it fills with salt from the horse's sweat and becomes jerky. I wonder if the Dolgan would have much of that for sale.
 
If we're talking about animals here, then the Amber and Jade spells might be more applicable than Mockery of Death in this situation.

K / Mockery of Death: Causes someone you touch to act and appear dead for several days, or until you end it. They retain all their senses, including sight if their eyes are open, and will still need to breathe and drink. (Moderately complicated.
The Winter's Long Slumber: Touched willing creature falls into hibernation sleep for several months. (Also moderately complicated.)
Fat of the Land: Touched creature does not need to eat for one week. Long casting time. (Relatively simple spell, instead.)

Also, if I remember correctly... When it came to the Mystical Matrix, it was the Jade College and the Amber College that adapted it, right?

So maybe whatever this thing is going to be, is going to be something that uses the Mystical Matrix. Like the way the Dragon Transformation Battle Altar did.
 
Fayhem said:
Apologies if I'm poking something meant to be left unpoked, but I had thought it was unsustainable on the scale of the tens of minutes or hours that RoW was meant to be usable for?

I mean, maybe I should just say the whole thing I had in mind instead of asking questions about the prerequisites for it - I wouldn't want to come off like I was trying to set you up into "agreeing" to something you didn't want to regardless, since I know that's rather a severe faux pas.

My impression of this road is that it's a drop off a cliff on one side, and the other side it's just a cliff - as in, a cliff wall rising up from where the steam wagons are to the next level of the Skull Road or whatever. What I had in mind was that the steam wagons would, absolutely, try to avoid driving over the big hole in the road - I'd assume the hole that resulted in a drop off a cliff for the Urmskaladrak would naturally have to be on the "outside" of the road where the drop off the cliff is, so trying to avoid it is pretty much a no-loss scenario since it doesn't add any risk. But at the same time as they're doing that, Mathilde would be casting RoW over the specially prepared will-consistently-trigger-RoW-because-it's-uneven/inconsistent-enough surface that's been set up (which is something that could be safely tested by volunteers attached to safety ropes to confirm it consistently triggers before sending a steam wagon). Not as something intended to carry the full weight of the steam wagon while it just drives right over the hole, but as a kind of failsafe so if while they're trying to avoid the hole entirely one of them does start to go over the edge there's something there (namely, RoW) to bear the weight of that specific portion of the steam wagon only, and only for long enough for the steam wagon to course correct or just move past the danger zone.

Would that, specifically, be viable? Am I even picturing this space correctly? It feels like if I am picturing it correctly then it should be workable, because if RoW can't support part of the weight of a single steam wagon for the length of one obstacle/hazard without Mathilde passing out or collapsing then how the heck have we been using it on all of them at once for (I think) hours at a time? For RoW to be effective with the steam wagons at all then it has to be capable of supporting part of their weight at a time, because otherwise it would do nothing since that's its whole function.
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Part of the problem is that in order for skywalks sticking out past the edge to be relevant, the landships have to go right up to that edge, which is where the ground is most treacherous. It doesn't really matter if they have 5 metres of skywalk as a would-be safety net, if getting to that they have to go over the very edge of the actual road, which will crumble on the spot.
 
Garlak said:
If we're talking about animals here, then the Amber and Jade spells might be more applicable than Mockery of Death in this situation.

K / Mockery of Death: Causes someone you touch to act and appear dead for several days, or until you end it. They retain all their senses, including sight if their eyes are open, and will still need to breathe and drink. (Moderately complicated.
The Winter's Long Slumber: Touched willing creature falls into hibernation sleep for several months. (Also moderately complicated.)
Fat of the Land: Touched creature does not need to eat for one week. Long casting time. (Relatively simple spell, instead.)
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Issue with WLS is the "willing" bit.
BoneyM said:
'Willing' would be a sticking point here. Cows in early summer aren't really hibernation-inclined.
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Garlak said:
If we're talking about animals here, then the Amber and Jade spells might be more applicable than Mockery of Death in this situation.

K / Mockery of Death: Causes someone you touch to act and appear dead for several days, or until you end it. They retain all their senses, including sight if their eyes are open, and will still need to breathe and drink. (Moderately complicated.
The Winter's Long Slumber: Touched willing creature falls into hibernation sleep for several months. (Also moderately complicated.)
Fat of the Land: Touched creature does not need to eat for one week. Long casting time. (Relatively simple spell, instead.)

Also, if I remember correctly... When it came to the Mystical Matrix, it was the Jade College and the Amber College that adapted it, right?

So maybe whatever this thing is going to be, is going to be something that uses the Mystical Matrix. Like the way the Dragon Transformation Battle Altar did.
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Those have been brought up. Amber can't be done because "willing". And the Jade spell can't be used because even if someone with us knew it it would clash with mockery, which we need to keep them from escaping.

And using fat of the land on mounts gets deep into chain-casting territory.
 
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Fayhem said:
Apologies if I'm poking something meant to be left unpoked, but I had thought it was unsustainable on the scale of the tens of minutes or hours that RoW was meant to be usable for?

I mean, maybe I should just say the whole thing I had in mind instead of asking questions about the prerequisites for it - I wouldn't want to come off like I was trying to set you up into "agreeing" to something you didn't want to regardless, since I know that's rather a severe faux pas.

My impression of this road is that it's a drop off a cliff on one side, and the other side it's just a cliff - as in, a cliff wall rising up from where the steam wagons are to the next level of the Skull Road or whatever. What I had in mind was that the steam wagons would, absolutely, try to avoid driving over the big hole in the road - I'd assume the hole that resulted in a drop off a cliff for the Urmskaladrak would naturally have to be on the "outside" of the road where the drop off the cliff is, so trying to avoid it is pretty much a no-loss scenario since it doesn't add any risk. But at the same time as they're doing that, Mathilde would be casting RoW over the specially prepared will-consistently-trigger-RoW-because-it's-uneven/inconsistent-enough surface that's been set up (which is something that could be safely tested by volunteers attached to safety ropes to confirm it consistently triggers before sending a steam wagon). Not as something intended to carry the full weight of the steam wagon while it just drives right over the hole, but as a kind of failsafe so if while they're trying to avoid the hole entirely one of them does start to go over the edge there's something there (namely, RoW) to bear the weight of that specific portion of the steam wagon only, and only for long enough for the steam wagon to course correct or just move past the danger zone.

Would that, specifically, be viable? Am I even picturing this space correctly? It feels like if I am picturing it correctly then it should be workable, because if RoW can't support part of the weight of a single steam wagon for the length of one obstacle/hazard without Mathilde passing out or collapsing then how the heck have we been using it on all of them at once for (I think) hours at a time? For RoW to be effective with the steam wagons at all then it has to be capable of supporting part of their weight at a time, because otherwise it would do nothing since that's its whole function.
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To be clear, this:

BoneyM said:
I'm declaring a moratorium on all further brainstorming for trying to make Rite of Way into a flying road.
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means no more questions that involve Skywalk or Rite of Way in any way, shape, or form, or any other magics intended as a solution to the problem.

tapkomet said:
There is a meat preservation techniques steppe nomads are known to use called "saddle sausage" or "saddle jerky", wherein they put meat under the horse's saddle so it fills with salt from the horse's sweat and becomes jerky. I wonder if the Dolgan would have much of that for sale.
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There's no way they'd have anywhere near enough at zero notice to make a dent in the Expedition's requirements.
 
Mopman43 said:
Issue with WLS is the "willing" bit.
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Hmmm.
BoneyM said:
'Willing' would be a sticking point here. Cows in early summer aren't really hibernation-inclined.
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That's probably solvable with usage of "Sleep" beforehand though, right?
Byzantine said:
Those have been brought up. Amber can't be done because "willing". And the Jade spell can't be used because even if someone with us knew it it would clash with mockery, which we need to keep them from escaping.

And using fat of the land on mounts gets deep into chain-casting territory.
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Ah, no, I mean -- people were talking about some kind of Enchanted Item or Enchanted Room, and I was thinking if you were going to build some kind of magical room, why not go for the Amber or Jade spell rather than the Ulgu spell?
 
tapkomet said:
Enchanted items are usually less energy-efficient than wizards. For example, Mathilde can use her flask once before she needs to do a lengthy recharge, whereas an Aqshy Battle Wizard could keep tossing out firestorms for a while.

By that logic, any MoD enchanted item will cover a lot fewer cows than the Grey Wizard that made it.
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The problem doesn't seem to be energy efficiency though, the problem is finding a grey wizard able and willing to chain cast Mockery of Death over and over on cows or horses or what have you, that's just not viable. It's suicidal for the vast majority of wizards, and those for who it isn't have far better things to do with their time (outside of extreme situations like Mathilde is in now).

On the other hand, give an enchanted item to someone with a bit of training and they can spend their day packing animals. It may be far slower, in the worst case I could see a single cast every dusk and dawn so two animals a day, and it may be expensive, but it's turning a previously impossibility into a reliable possibility. Whether it's worth it to spend all that time slowly loading up the animals, or to spend that much money as it may take to buy the artefact (or several) to solve the problem is another matter, but if it does work then that's just a matter of testing whether it can be done economically. And we've still provided an option that may come in useful at some point in the future if there's ever an extreme need.

Assuming an reusable enchanted item of MoD for baselines is possible, of course.
 
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