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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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[X] Fortify the Karak entrance, but keep the steam-wagons disengaged.
[X] Fortify the road to Kislev to keep the Daemons isolated from population centers.
 
[x] Fortify the road to Kislev to keep the Daemons isolated from population centers.

After BoneyM's clarification, I feel that roads are almost certainly a workable checkpoint, especially given our ability to post out-riders and aerial assets in the form of Asarnil and his dragon.
 
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Hmmm. On further thought, aside from the steam wagons (which could still count but is better kept safe for our supplies), our force is surprisingly good at harrassment.

We have 2 mounted cavalry groups, 2 mounted wizards, 1 Mathilde, 1 Flying Wizard, along with Asarnil & Deathfang combo.

I will have to edit in an approval vote for harrassment now.
 
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Fortifying the road seems like the worst of all options by far.

We're fixed in one place so can be flanked or bypassed, we have no pre-existing fortifications we can reuse, and most importantly we're too far away to relieve/reinforce a dwarven evacuation/sally attempt.

It endangers the expedition as much as possible while also making sure we're out of position to intervene if anything relevant happens at the Karak.
 
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BoneyM said:
[ ] Fortify the Karak entrance with the steam-wagons.
Ruprecht, Snorri, and Gotrek are in favour of this idea.
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Better solution fight wise but has a really high chance of dooming the Expedition for the original goal so I'm not really for it

BoneyM said:
[ ] Fortify the Karak entrance, but keep the steam-wagons disengaged.
Joerg, Gotrek and Borek are in favour of this idea.
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BoneyM said:
[ ] Fortify the road to Kislev to keep the Daemons isolated from population centers.
Joerg, Ruprecht, and Snorri are in favour of this idea.
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This two are both good combat-wise but risk of missing some Chaos bands and will provoke casualties to the Expedition (especially in front of the Karak where we could be encircle with bads rolls).

BoneyM said:
[ ] Harass the Daemons with cavalry to slow them down enough that they cannot reach population centers in time.
Joerg, Gotrek, and Borek are in favour of this idea.
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Have a high chance of missing a chaos band but minimize the risk to the Expedition.

BoneyM said:
[ ] Send a warning west, clog the Waystone, and move on.
Joerg, Gotrek, and Borek are in favour of this idea.
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Not really in favor of this idea, would provoke trouble diplomaticly with Kislev on the return journey and later.


After thinking a little more I will vote :
[X] Fortify the road to Kislev to keep the Daemons isolated from population centers.
less risk for the Expedition than fighting in front of the Karak and will at least block the bigger warbands from reaching Kislev.

EDIT : Since everyone is doing Approval voting this is my second voting option:
[X] Harass the Daemons with cavalry to slow them down enough that they cannot reach population centers in time.
 
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I know it would be less a 'cautious controlled campaign of harassment' and more 'die so we can get more info of the opposing forces' but we do have a bunch of Slayers. Can't we just be like: have at it? And we can either fortify or retreat behind them.

This is obviously quite mean but I'm not quite sure a suicide mission is a bad thing since they're a suicide cult to begin with.
 
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BurnNote said:
The last time Mathilde suggested a YOLO umgi magic solution, Thorek was all

but Kragg was all "continue please", and then they did Zhuf Logic.

In conclusion, Kragg disapproves, but not anywhere as much as not reclaiming a Hold.
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I don't think Thorek will be all disapproving now either, since Mathilde's worked with him on something now, and that something turned out to be quite the game changer.
 
SaltyWaffles said:
[X] Fortify the road to Kislev to keep the Daemons isolated from population centers.
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Have to agree with Alratan about this, the daemons don't need to use the roads, they can easily go past our flanks, we surrender the advantage of killing them through a chokepoint limiting their forces and we have no way to react to anything that happens at the Karak if surviving dwarves that are there make a run for it or sally out thinking they are being relieved.

The fortify the road option is a feel good option that makes it feel like we're then not responsible morally for any casualities that happen in Kislev but ultimately doesn't actually do a good job at handling any of our priorities.



DarianAmell said:
After thinking a little more I will vote :
[X] Fortify the road to Kislev to keep the Daemons isolated from population centers.
less risk for the Expedition than fighting in front of the Karak and will at least block the bigger warbands from reaching Kislev.
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It really wont though, daemons are quite capable of ignoring the roads and whilst it will take them longer to pass through rough terrain they can and will bypass a road fort.
 
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melody-chii said:
I know it would be less a 'cautious controlled campaign of harassment' but we do have a bunch of Slayers. Can't we just be like: have at it? And we can either fortify or retreat behind them.

This is obviously quite mean but I'm not quite sure a suicide mission is a bad thing since they're a suicide cult to begin with.
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Every Slayer that dies now won't be dying later in the expedition when they might be more needed.
 
Tomcost said:
I thought that it would be Nurgle the happy one? Pappa Rot dislikes Pleasure Brat.

The same way the tryhard blood and skulls guy dislikes the overthinking magical dude.

Or do I have the rivalries mixed?
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You do - the major rivalries are Tzeentch versus Nurgle (hope and change versus despair and stagnation) and Khorne versus Slaanesh ("honorable" machismo versus transgressive hedonism). Khorne's hatred of Tzeentch's treachery/cowardice/nerderywizardry is notable, but dwarfed by his hatred of the dudechick who goes and makes a good slaughterfest of a fight all weird with the "ooh, hit me harder daddy, I like it" stuff.

[x] Fortify the Karak entrance, but keep the steam-wagons disengaged.
[x] Fortify the road to Kislev to keep the Daemons isolated from population centers.
[x] Harass the Daemons with cavalry to slow them down enough that they cannot reach population centers in time.
 
Tomcost said:
@BoneyM how difficult would it be to vacate one of those villages on a short amount of time?
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It's sowing season, so extremely. If their homes are destroyed and their fields aren't sown in time, then they're just as dead as if daemons killed them.

BeepSmile said:
Spitballing, for any Kislev messages: Cast a shadowsteed for someone else to bring a message to them, if "Mathilde time" is a factor - also, could we make a one-use enchanted item of shadowsteed for the way back for them?

Alternatively, if we do deliver a message to Kislev, what about us going and casting shadowsteed so Ljiljana can come with - or at least have her give us a token of "this person is on the up-and-up" of some sort, or a message stating such.

Though, if we do bring warning to Kislev, I wonder if we can grab a few more wind-users or priest-casters with us? if so, Mathilde's shadowsteed would come in handy.
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Mathilde on a Shadowsteed has much more speed and endurance than anyone else on a Shadowsteed. And no, even a one-use enchantment takes several days to make.

Akasha said:
@BoneyM

Are we sending someone to warn Kislev regardless of the option we pick? This strikes me as something we should do, even if the message gets a bit late, simply to give Kislev a chance to brace itself against any demonic hordes that slip past us. It should also help us avoid being blamed.
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Yes.

DiceOfStupidity said:
That is not really I was asking about. It's more matter of tactical flexibility. Hypothetical situation: let's say we fortify main gate. Demons exit through unknown entrance, and then expedition is suddenly between hammer and hard place, with demons attacking both from Karak main gate and from behind. Being on receiving end of simultaneous attack from multiple angles is losing proposition. And demons not stupid. I was asking for whether can we cave main entrance if needed.

Likewise scouting I mentioned was not to find hidden entrances. Yes, that is likely impossible without months of efforts. I was thinking of possibility where we fortify main gate and demons will sally out to attack back of fortifications. Scouting was to detect that sally before they hit defensive possition.
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Scouting and watching for enemies will happen even if it's not explicitly mentioned in the plan. The Expedition isn't stupid either.

melody-chii said:
I know it would be less a 'cautious controlled campaign of harassment' but we do have a bunch of Slayers. Can't we just be like: have at it? And we can either fortify or retreat behind them.

This is obviously quite mean but I'm not quite sure a suicide mission is a bad thing since they're a suicide cult to begin with.
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Details like this will be worked out after a plan is decided on, and the Slayers aren't under Mathilde's command.
 
[X] Fortify the road to Kislev to keep the Daemons isolated from population centers.
Joerg, Ruprecht, and Snorri are in favour of this idea.
 
[X] Fortify the road to Kislev to keep the Daemons isolated from population centers.
 
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If we fortify the Karak entrance we will almost certainly be fortifying the full 360 degrees.

Also, what do people voting to fortify the road expect stops the daemons making a detour a couple of miles off road and just bypassing us?
 
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BoneyM said:
It's sowing season, so extremely. If their homes are destroyed and their fields aren't sown in time, then they're just as dead as if daemons killed them
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But this would take a couple days to put distance and a couple days to go back?

Also we have a Jade Wizard to help?

Would daemons even get to the part of beelining towards an empty village?
 
I'm super surprised that people are going for the road option, it means the daemons can sally out enforce and attack us in a large blob all at once instead of being forced into fighting in limited numbers. It's also not even very good at its main aim of stopping daemons getting to kislevian population centres.
 
Have a tally.
Adhoc vote count started by Aranfan on Dec 13, 2020 at 7:08 AM, finished with 119 posts and 26 votes.
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Tomcost said:
But this would take a couple days to put distance and a couple days to go back?
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They'd be going back to a razed village, which would almost certainly include their granaries being burned and their wells tainted.

Tomcost said:
Also we have a Jade Wizard to help?
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In this scenario, the Jade Wizard would be part of a convoy heading in the complete opposite direction.

Tomcost said:
Would daemons even get to the part of beelining towards an empty village?
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What? If there aren't incoming daemons, why do you want to evacuate them?
 
SuperSonicSound said:
I'm super surprised that people are going for the road option, it means the daemons can sally out enforce and attack us in a large blob all at once instead of being forced into fighting in limited numbers. It's also not even very good at its main aim of stopping daemons getting to kislevian population centres.
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I'm just as surprised that people are voting to put the steam wagons at risk. We made an entirely new spell just to keep the things from breaking down over rough ground and here we are putting them in the path of a daemonic incursion? We kinda need those, you know?
 
Alratan said:
We're fixed in one place so can be flanked or bypassed, we have no pre-existing fortifications we can reuse, and most importantly we're too far away to relieve/reinforce a dwarven evacuation/sally attempt.
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The road fortification place is said to be a good enough substitute to forting up in a karak entrance with unknown side entrances. Also the distance from the karak is a feature, since travel time would degrade demon effectiveness and have a side benefit of possibly facing a split force instead.
BoneyM said:
"If they cannot reverse the blockage of magical energies, their only other alternative is to find people to sacrifice," Joerg says. "If we fortify a chokepoint to the west of here, we have almost as advantageous a position as if we besieged the entrance, with the added possibility of them heading east or deeper into the mountains and dissipating harmlessly."
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On a dwarven evacuation attempt, really the best we could hope for on that front are survivors in a completely sealed vault. Any escapees would either be focused on by the enemy demons, or be already dead if they were sieged for a long time.


SuperSonicSound said:
they can easily go past our flanks,
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How? We are far enough from any population centers, and them scattering would only be to everyones benefit since they would still slowly degrade.

Them going through the mountains successfully (knowing which way to go, terrain difficulty, finding civilization when they pass through) before degrading is apparently a small enough chance that it isn't even discussed aside from being a way to have them dissipate harmlessly (last bit of my quoted part above).
 
NuclearConsensus said:
I'm just as surprised that people are voting to put the steam wagons at risk. We made an entirely new spell just to keep the things from breaking down over rough ground and here we are putting them in the path of a daemonic incursion? We kinda need those, you know?
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Not really, Borek needs those for his quixotic quest. Most other dwarfs would look at the broken wagons and say 'well we freed a Karak this year, good use of resources, we'll try for Dun in a few more years'
 
[x] Fortify the road to Kislev to keep the Daemons isolated from population centers.
[x] Harass the Daemons with cavalry to slow them down enough that they cannot reach population centers in time.
 
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