Serving a Dwarf King (at the edge of the civilised world) makes things less complicated, overall.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
It does make our enemies much clearer then it is for most. Gray wizards that act in the empire are likely to have many "frenemies".
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Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
Well if we didn't serve Belegar, we wouldn't know secrets that could break the Karaz Ankor, and we wouldn't have to try and figure out how to explain things without letting those secrets out... And that's not even considering how we would deal with a conflict between the Empire and Karaz Ankor, or the Marienburg's mess.
Eh, I suppose it depends on your definition of complicated.
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
Well, not having to worry if literally any of your coworkers are or have become compromised by vampires, Chaos or Skaven would make working with dwarfs less complicated by default, wouldn't you say?
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
Maybe. Depends on if said coworkers have the potential to shatter a large portion of the Order forces in the world or spawn one or more wars should they need to die. Considering we've seen an Empress be murdered for something like this and it barely rocked the boat, I wouldn't expect it to be that bad.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
The Elves definitely built some portions of the Network alone. The Isle of the Dead, where they created the Great Vortex, is built of Waystones. What features though?
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I was thinking back to this. Should we spend a bit of DF on learning about how to do demolitions? I feel deep in my soul that we are going to have times in the future that we want to blow up some stuff, but not other stuff behind enemy lines in the future. Also our firebreath is an explosive that we always bring with us.
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Thinking more about the situation with Vlag, danger of karak disappearing in warp seems minimal.
I'm looking at situation taking as constrain fact that Vlag is not turned into third major warp gate:
=> Vlag cannot be fully exposed to Slanesh realm - stone is not melted, mutated and otherwise changed into strange form half-living and moaning form.
=> If there was completely open access between Vlag and once Vlag was back to reality it would emanate enormous amount of magic on reappearance. Storm of magic did not happen.
=> Open access between Vlag and rest of warp would remove any potential remaining dawi resistance in quick order.
So there cannot be fully open flow between 'banished' karak and rest of demon realm. Given that:
=> Vlag is likely accessible to demons form warp, but not trivially.
=> Vlag being separated from Warp means it is in fact being help in place by tapestry of real world (otherwise it would just drift freely)
=> Power available to Vlag is not infinite (no free flow from Warp)
Then, there are condition needed for any type magic to actually push place that big out of normal world. It is almost safe bet that it cannot be done without reality being significantly weakened. Storm of magic conditions.
All together, it likely means, that demons cannot easily switch Vlag in and out of reality. It is very likely it relies on disturbance of re-appearing weakening reality enough to disappear back. A sustained momentum type of deal. They likely can also 'lose' part of karak in transit. Whatever piece of Karak where conditions normalize to something reasembling normal condition is likely there for good. The watchtowers and mines? They are likely there to stay. Same with road. It's very hard to break stabilized reality once it had chance to settle, so at very least demons would need next storm of magic to recapture lost areas.
If we get karak back for even few hours? It's likely there to stay.
I'm looking at situation taking as constrain fact that Vlag is not turned into third major warp gate:
=> Vlag cannot be fully exposed to Slanesh realm - stone is not melted, mutated and otherwise changed into strange form half-living and moaning form.
=> If there was completely open access between Vlag and once Vlag was back to reality it would emanate enormous amount of magic on reappearance. Storm of magic did not happen.
=> Open access between Vlag and rest of warp would remove any potential remaining dawi resistance in quick order.
So there cannot be fully open flow between 'banished' karak and rest of demon realm. Given that:
=> Vlag is likely accessible to demons form warp, but not trivially.
=> Vlag being separated from Warp means it is in fact being help in place by tapestry of real world (otherwise it would just drift freely)
=> Power available to Vlag is not infinite (no free flow from Warp)
Then, there are condition needed for any type magic to actually push place that big out of normal world. It is almost safe bet that it cannot be done without reality being significantly weakened. Storm of magic conditions.
All together, it likely means, that demons cannot easily switch Vlag in and out of reality. It is very likely it relies on disturbance of re-appearing weakening reality enough to disappear back. A sustained momentum type of deal. They likely can also 'lose' part of karak in transit. Whatever piece of Karak where conditions normalize to something reasembling normal condition is likely there for good. The watchtowers and mines? They are likely there to stay. Same with road. It's very hard to break stabilized reality once it had chance to settle, so at very least demons would need next storm of magic to recapture lost areas.
If we get karak back for even few hours? It's likely there to stay.
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We already know secrets that could break the Empire (Heidi, plus the Liber Mortis), and humans are a lot more likely to poke at that sort of thing or try to use it to their advantage. We would always be involved in Marienburg, since the EIC is strongly tied in the rivertrade. And we ended up involved in the Nordland/Middenland mess anyway.
Grey Wizards are compulsive meddlers, and this is one facet that Mathilde does not at all deviate from.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Elf Waystones drain magic out of the environment and funnel it onwards over long distances. Karaz Ankor Waystones apparently are separated into two types, one doing more large scale draining and one working only as funnels that don't drain.
There's a gap between 'useful enough to officially recognize' and 'the sort of job you want royalty doing'.
Whoever's the most senior Ranger reports to whoever's the in charge of the relevant military branch.
Karak Izor is part of a the Vaults, a massive mountain range at the intersection between the Black and Grey Mountains. Lots of Dwarves from fallen Dwarfholds resettled there and carved out their own small Dwarfholds. Most of them are very closely aligned with Karak Izor and fight alongside them when necessary.
Dwarven belief is that if someone isn't given the proper rites, they'll be reborn at some point in the future as another Dwarf.
Runesmiths might retain some knowledge of them, but for the most part Dwarves don't care about them, because they have their own solution to the problem of ambient magic and they're also an unpleasant reminder of the treachery of Elgi and the lost capabilities of the Karaz Ankor.
Completely separate.
I don't see how those two things are incompatible.
You say features, Dwarves would say vulnerabilities. Their transmission Waystones are a lot harder to find than the ones sucking in ambient energies.
The only one that Mathilde knows how to find is the one that the stream of magic at Karak Vlag is pointing to. Mapping out a significant portion of the chain would be a project of weeks to months.
No.
Small enough to count as close quarters.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Karak Vlag has never been a crossroads with huge traffic of friendly visitors. They likely felt that smaller more defendable gates were more appropriate.*
*Basing this purely on location.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Huh. I thought most of everyone's belief was that someone not given the proper rights has a high chance of getting gobbled up by Chaos within the Aethyr and that that is why Gazul's works, Gazul's rites and Gazul's sally port mattered so much.
That sounds dangerously easy to do for a Chaos Sorcerer with a couple of Windsight blessings and a good amount of time for some fucked up lifetime project.
Guile
Having a really great time right now
Once again apologizing if this has been asked before, since I'm still totally skimming:
Mathilde can't drag Vlag out of the Aethyr, right? That was explicitly a multiple-Wizard-Lord-and-slash-or-Runelord project.
So are we just gonna clog the Waystone array and leave, or clog the Waystone array and wait to see what happens?
The former sounds dangerously irresponsible (though not more irresponsible than ignoring it and moving on), but how long would we wait for the latter (and how long until Borek starts tearing out his eponymous fork-beard)?
Mathilde can't drag Vlag out of the Aethyr, right? That was explicitly a multiple-Wizard-Lord-and-slash-or-Runelord project.
So are we just gonna clog the Waystone array and leave, or clog the Waystone array and wait to see what happens?
The former sounds dangerously irresponsible (though not more irresponsible than ignoring it and moving on), but how long would we wait for the latter (and how long until Borek starts tearing out his eponymous fork-beard)?
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- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
We can't directly drag Vlag out of the Aethyr, but we can cut the power to the ongoing magical effect, which seems likely to be the thing keeping it in the Aethyr, and see what happens.
So hopefully this gets resolved inside a week, between "time it takes to come back" and "time it takes for all the daemons to poof."
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
Thought, but has anyone considered how rescuing Vlag and—potentially—Dum might influence the general Dwarven mindset? Like their whole thing about the world being too shitty of a place to bring kids into because they're inevitably going to suffer? Because one hold getting reclaimed had a marked improvement on morale, even if people are still uneasy about how long it will last. Two or three, so quickly? That's a sign of proper resurgence, especially if we can follow it up in a decade or two by screwing with Drazh should they still be weak.
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
Clog the waystone array, see what happens, wait for Vlag to return, guard the waystone array against the (we assume)inevitable Daemonic sally aimed at reopening it. Leave once all the Daemons discorporate, we can be sure Vlag won't disappear again, and we can unclog the waystone.
No one has asked how long Borek will wait though, probably because most people are working from very optimistic projections of timeframe.
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consequences
Not A Nice Person At All
- Location
- Jerkville
It sure would suck for that ambitious Chaos Sorceror with That One Trick Dawi Hate if there was someone with an HUD and an airforce with near absolute authority to tell his people to wreck some shit.
We're going to clog and wait.... hopefully not very long. The theory is that it's taking an active magical effect, powered by the waystone energy, to keep the karak in the aethyr. If all goes according to plan once we cut off the power supply it should float back into reality like a piece of wood floating to the surface of water.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Not really. Counting your chickens and all, and risking setting myself up for disappointment.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
If Vlag doesn't come back in a week we shrugs and say "Worth a shoot".
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
Also it should be noted that the daemons could possibly dissipate pretty quickly. Days is, like, the worst-case scenario, right?
Fair. I'm mostly asking because I've seen several other cases of chicken counting be mentioned, and this was just one that seemed really nice. As an aside, I wonder what Khazalid for "Hopebringer" would be, since people were talking titles earlier.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
This does suggest another potential, though overly difficult, solution: Brute-force pieces of the Karak back into reality, slowly chipping away at it as one part after another looses its connection to the ritual. Not one I'd favor over clogging the leyline, or getting a bunch of magic-types to tear the entire ritual apart in one go, but technically possible. (If you don't mind dealing with constant counter-assaults.)
Noteably, while we know entire mountains can be Waystones, Mathilde hasn't actually found the runic mechanisms that operate the entire thing. This might be her first time getting a look at the inner working of a mountain-Waystone, if things go well.
- Location
- some computer lab
Clog the waystone array, wait a few days for vlag to come back, wait a few more days for demons to stop coming out, hopefully reclaimed hold.
We still have a resupply point up ahead, so the delay shouldn't matter overly much, might end up slowing down the return trip if the pass freezes over again, but even getting that far with the expedition intact would be a massive success.
Guile
Having a really great time right now
Of course, 'how long it takes demons to dissipate' is probably a moot point if we're waiting around for them to emerge like a tide of nubile pink flesh. Then the only question worth asking is 'How many daemonettes can fit in a Dwarfhold, exactly?' because they'll be coming for our delicious faces within the hour.