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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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fictionfan said:
I would be nice if the nearest concentration of Orcs was more than a day's march away. But if we take it where is the next closest concentration from Drazh? If it's just a day from there we haven't really gained anything.
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The next big concentration is probably Iron Rock, another former dwarf settlement though unlike K8P and Black Crag this one wasn't a full Karak; just a mining settlement.


Mopman43 said:
Wasn't that Karak Azgal?
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Karak Izril is the old name for Karak Azgal. Sort of like K8P is also Vala-Azril-Ungol.
 
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According to this map, Iron Rock is a lot further away as the crow flies and an awful lot further away by the overland route along the pass.
 
Couldn't the Dwarves literally pay for human settlers to set up near Black Crag. Throw money at the problem dammit.

Mathilde could then suggest an action as Loremaster to set up human temples, inquisitors, etc to keep any Chaos taint low.
 
Fehu said:
Couldn't the Dwarves literally pay for human settlers to set up near Black Crag. Throw money at the problem dammit.

Mathilde could then suggest an action as Loremaster to set up human temples, inquisitors, etc to keep any Chaos taint low.
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How would them getting killed help? If we are getting settlers might as well get them in K8P where they can help with the defense. It isn't like it's even 10% full yet.
 
Fehu said:
Couldn't the Dwarves literally pay for human settlers to set up near Black Crag. Throw money at the problem dammit.

Mathilde could then suggest an action as Loremaster to set up human temples, inquisitors, etc to keep any Chaos taint low.
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How many people would be willing to settle in some of the most dangerous territory ever without massive; constant and unrealistic amounts of gold thrown at them?

To make the area safe and self sustaining the Karaz Ankor needs to reconquer Iron Rock and the Black Crag and a big polity; probably the Empire; needs to grab the Border Princes and then help Barak Varr fortify the Blood River.

That's about the most that could be hoped for and it'd be a slow slog for decades because without some serious necromancy getting that many bodies together is a daunting task.
 
Given that Iron Rock is on the other side of a big mountain range I disagree that it needs to be conquered to secure Karak Drazh.

Particularly as taking Karak Drazh should open up the the Underway routes north to Karak-a-Karak.
 
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Jrin said:
That sound like a fun little adventure for Mathilde should we ever get tired of research and social since its a new environment interaction with all sorts of gritty and newbie adventurers at ground level.
Kind of like Goblin Slayer!
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The town of Deadgate no longer exists in quest canon. I'm pretty sure it only still exists in regular canon because it's such a good RPG setting, rather than a town built into a Night Goblin stronghold in the middle of the Badlands being particularly defensible.

The Lone badger said:
Johann can 'see' a MAPP, right? Not the projection itself, but the strands of ulgu making it up.

A nice gift for him might be a sheet of glass that you can lay down on a page in a book. It uses ulgu to find the edges of the characters, the division between ink and not-ink. Then it displays this text in a large MAPP floating above the book. Useful for old magisters who's eyes are failing, and for idiots who poured molten metal into their eyes.
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The standard ink for this time period is made of iron salts and tannic acid, which is already visible to his Magesight. But yes, Johann can 'see' a MAPP.

fictionfan said:
Reading again and this seems odd. I mean the dwarfs were allied with the elves for more than a thousand years. I would expect there to be something.
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Dwarves would say that Khazalid hasn't changed since the time of the Ancestor Gods, but this is a very good counter-example. There were once connotation-neutral words for such things, but now they're veritably rich with all sorts of implications, so now if a Dwarf wants to be polite they either use 'Zhufokri' or Reikspiel loanwords.

Mopman43 said:
Wasn't that Karak Azgal?
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Karak Azgal is the name of the ruin, Karak Izril was the name of the Dwarfhold. Most fallen holds have post-fall names, like Karak Varn vs Cragmere and Karak Drazh vs Black Crag. Even Karak Eight Peaks once qualified, though it's open to debate whether the name is still being used instead of Vala-Azril-Ungol out of cynicism, a desire to wait and see, or because it's the name familiar to the current multi-species society.

Mopman43 said:
Edit: @BoneyM? How far of a march is Iron Rock from Drazh/K8P?
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A fair way. It's about as far north from Ulrikadrin as it is east from Barak Varr.
 
BoneyM said:
Dwarves would say that Khazalid hasn't changed since the time of the Ancestor Gods, but this is a very good counter-example. There were once connotation-neutral words for such things, but now they're veritably rich with all sorts of implications, so now if a Dwarf wants to be polite they either use 'Zhufokri' or Reikspiel loanwords.
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And they might be technically correct, as the dwarves met the elves and started fighting alongside them before the last of the Ancestor Gods departed, I think.
 
Alratan said:
And they might be technically correct, as the dwarves met the elves and started fighting alongside them before the last of the Ancestor Gods departed, I think.
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Sort of. The Elves started colonizing the Old World after those traditionally considered 'Ancestor Gods' departed, but the Karaz Ankor was ruled at the time by Snorri Whitebeard, the eldest son of Grungni and Valaya, elder brother to Smednir and Thungni. The question of why he doesn't 'count' as an Ancestor God, especially since his reign lasted at least 1300 years, can be neatly bypassed by the theory that Grombrindal is Snorri Whitebeard.
 
BoneyM said:
Sort of. The Elves started colonizing the Old World after those traditionally considered 'Ancestor Gods' departed, but the Karaz Ankor was ruled at the time by Snorri Whitebeard, the eldest son of Grungni and Valaya, elder brother to Smednir and Thungni. The question of why he doesn't 'count' as an Ancestor God, especially since his reign lasted at least 1300 years, can be neatly bypassed by the theory that Grombrindal is Snorri Whitebeard.
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I think one of the histories records Grimnir as making first contact with the elves during the Great Incursion, and their high mages were the ones to tell him about the imploded warp gates after they teamed up to defeat a chaos army.

As you say, the colonies are later, but the roots of the alliance seem to have been formed then.
 
BoneyM said:
Sort of. The Elves started colonizing the Old World after those traditionally considered 'Ancestor Gods' departed, but the Karaz Ankor was ruled at the time by Snorri Whitebeard, the eldest son of Grungni and Valaya, elder brother to Smednir and Thungni. The question of why he doesn't 'count' as an Ancestor God, especially since his reign lasted at least 1300 years, can be neatly bypassed by the theory that Grombrindal is Snorri Whitebeard.
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Wait, wait, wait...
I think there was some serious interaction between Grimnir, just before or during the Death march, and Caledor Dragontamer, at one point, or am I confusing the official canon with that of some fanwork or other...
WHF canon is a bit of a mess...
*Mathilda-d*
 
yannoshka said:
Wait, wait, wait...
I think there was some serious interaction between Grimnir, just before or during the Death march, and Caledor Dragontamer, at one point, or am I confusing the official canon with that of some fanwork or other...
WHF canon is a bit of a mess...
*Mathilda-d*
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Actually that sounds like soulcakes quest. Some investigation may be needed.
 
ShyPerson said:
Actually that sounds like soulcakes quest. Some investigation may be needed.
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Article:
102 (-4421) -- Grungni makes the Throne of Power and gifts it to his eldest son, Snorri Whitebeard. Grimnir meets the Elves and, despite his gruff manner, establishes friendly relations.
103 (-4420) -- Grimnir fearlessly strides off into the Chaos Wastes and is never seen again. Shortly afterwards marks the last sightings of the other Ancestor Gods.
 
vsh said:
Ow, what happened to it?
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Waaagh Grom.

Alratan said:
I think one of the histories records Grimnir as making first contact with the elves during the Great Incursion, and their high mages were the ones to tell him about the imploded warp gates after they teamed up to defeat a chaos army.

As you say, the colonies are later, but the roots of the alliance seem to have been formed then.
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yannoshka said:
Wait, wait, wait...
I think there was some serious interaction between Grimnir, just before or during the Death march, and Caledor Dragontamer, at one point, or am I confusing the official canon with that of some fanwork or other...
WHF canon is a bit of a mess...
*Mathilda-d*
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Caledor and Grimnir are said to have met and exchanged information on the Great Catastrophe, but formal relations only seem to have been established after Malekith made contact with the Dwarves during his travels after Bel Shanaar was crowned. Either way, close partnership only begun after the Great Vortex was completed, which was the same time the Ancestor Gods departed. This partnership was helped a lot by the close friendship between Malekith and Snorri Whitebeard.
 
BoneyM said:
Caledor and Grimnir are said to have met and exchanged information on the Great Catastrophe, but formal relations only seem to have been established after Malekith made contact with the Dwarves during his travels after Bel Shanaar was crowned. Either way, close partnership only begun after the Great Vortex was completed, which was the same time the Ancestor Gods departed. This partnership was helped a lot by the close friendship between Malekith and Snorri Whitebeard.
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Malekith is an oath breaker without peer. Malekith, on Snorri's deathbed, swore that the friendship between the elves and the dawi would endure forever.

Then he engineered the War of Vengence.

Little wonder then, that the resultant grudge drew Snorri back as the White Dwarf.
 
Aranfan said:
Malekith is an oath breaker without peer. Malekith, on Snorri's deathbed, swore that the friendship between the elves and the dawi would endure forever.

Then he engineered the War of Vengence.

Little wonder then, that the resultant grudge drew Snorri back as the White Dwarf.
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My issue with that theory, is if it was true, you would think Snorri might have actually done something... Anything at all really to see malekith dead. But it doesn't seem as though he ever bothered to do a thing about him.
 
jjffjhjf said:
My issue with that theory, is if it was true, you would think Snorri might have actually done something... Anything at all really to see malekith dead. But it doesn't seem as though he ever bothered to do a thing about him.
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My guess is that he wants to but he can't.

He would love to murder Malekith but the guy isn't easy to kill and as much as he wants to he doesn't have the time to go all the way to naggorath for a shot in the dark. He is busy making sure that the dwarves don't get wipeout by constantly going from crisis point to crisis point to save Dwarves lives. But given he is a dwarf is imagine he is also endlessly waiting patiently for the perfect movement to appear to enact vengeance even if it takes till the end times.
 
masterofmadness said:
My guess is that he wants to but he can't.

He would love to murder Malekith but the guy isn't easy to kill and as much as he wants to he doesn't have the time to go all the way to naggorath for a shot in the dark. He is busy making sure that the dwarves don't get wipeout by constantly going from crisis point to crisis point to save Dwarves lives. But given he is a dwarf is imagine he is also endlessly waiting patiently for the perfect movement to appear to enact vengeance even if it takes till the end times.
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Well the end times happened, and Snorri forgave him, so it still doesn't work.
 
NSMS said:
...there's something called the End Times? :confused:
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The only good part of it was nagash ascending to a god of undeath like he should have always been. casting down that death loving fool morr in the process!

also Luthor Harkon kicking Nehekhara's shit in and only going down after killing thousands of nurgle daemons while both his arms were broken.
 
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