Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting will open in 7 hours, 56 minutes
Reader mode
Can anyone point me to the omake where it's a dating game and the hidden route has you get brought back from the dead by our lady magister?
 
deathofrats0808 said:
Not quite true. In typical Asur style, their treaty is worded vaguely enough that Ulthuan can choose to step in or not as it pleases.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If memory serves, it's not so much that the treaty is worded strangely, but rather that the treaty was negotiated with a legal entity- the Duchy of Westerland- that hasn't existed in almost 200 years. And Ulthuan has been coy about if they consider themselves bound to the treaty or not, given that fact.
 
Horologer said:
Freshwater is actually a pretty bad conductor of electricity. As it turns out, salt water conducts electricity pretty well due to dissolved ions, which is probably where the confusion comes from. But pure water has almost nothing in the way of "free" charged particles, so it doesn't conduct an electrical charge very well. Since a magically conjured mist is probably almost pure or completely pure water (assuming it's water at all), I don't think the physics works out that way.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
As far as resistance goes, a mist is IIRC, a BETTER insulator than either water or air, though its also a pretty good medium to store large quantities of static electricity.
 
Thomasfoolery said:
I think there's no way Ulthuan goes to the bitter end for Marienburg, a credible army makes it to the walls and they quit the contest and retreat to their embassy (Honestly a credible army making it to the walls is probably when a negotiated settlement is struck, none of the parties involved particularly want fighting inside the city). Marienburg is a useful enough patsy to support when it's cheap enough to do so, but they'll get most of the benefits regardless of who's in charge.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A credible army making through the swamp to the walls and being big enough to overwhelm the cities fortifications and the abundant mercenary forces Marienburg can buy, beyond what can be easily equalized just by having some elven mages drop by. Those are the actual requirements to make it so supporting Marienburg is no longer dirt cheap. And they are rather comprehensive.
 
Last edited:
veekie said:
As far as resistance goes, a mist is IIRC, a BETTER insulator than either water or air, though its also a pretty good medium to store large quantities of static electricity.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Dry air has a resistance of roughly 1016​Ωm while pure water is around 107​Ωm. If you have water droplets suspended in the air, isn't that just pockets of less resistance?
 
Last edited:
Horologer said:
Given the time period, I'd say that most people don't know enough about electricity for that kind of symbolism-based thinking to work.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Eh, electricity is a little more common than in similar periods IRL, because lightning magic exists. It might not be completely common knowledge, but I expect it to be more widespread than history would tell us.

veekie said:
Thats the point. Its the fifth and arguably least critical element of their defense, because where the other elements will allow an invasion if they are gone, the trade dominance only makes existing difficulties worse - if the Empire has the political will to pave over the marsh then they've already fucked up far, far worse, and it cannot carry out an embargo without naval dominance.

Its strategic defense role is overstated, its mainly a massive moneymaker, because having a monopoly on Imperial riverine trade lets them take whatever price they want.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
So, why are you quoting me when you say this? My point was that the canal breaks their trade monopoly and therefore makes them less attractive to invade. It does bring the side benefit of meaning the First Fleet isn't stuck in Altdorf if it's needed at sea and Marienburg aren't cooperating though.

veekie said:
Can't actually address this point without going deeper into economics than I have the time for, but that is only true on a very superficial reading of things. High value goods, which can be luxury items, high quality equipment, books or reagents are valuable for moving productivity around, beyond the very real importance of things like saltpeter or high grade steel being moved on the same channels
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
But unless those things are being imported from foreign polities, or shipped in from Nordland/Ostland, the existing infrastructure still works normally. Like, Marienburg blocks sea access, but doesn't stop the Empire moving anything and everything it can on the rivers once they get there. And because the river system flows through so much of the Empire, I don't believe they move large quantities of necessary goods through Marienburg anyway. I think they mostly move international imports and exports. Which in a world where you can't count on not going to war with anyone, most likely means largely luxury goods.

Simon_Jester said:
The question you invite, then, is "do the Imperial ports on the north coast, the ones not connected to the Reik river network, HAVE those advantages?"

The other question is "is it feasible for the bulk of the Imperial economy to plug itself into the maritime trade of these ports in any meaningful way, or does the tyranny of overland distance, complicated by the need to get past terrain obstacles like beastman-haunted forests and mountains, prevent this?"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Which are all fair questions. I think that if given enough time, yes, the Empire could eventually move its international trade. It wouldn't be quick or easy, but it could be done. Plus, they do something of a trade with whichever tribe of the Norse aren't raiding them that year IIRC.

So you get a situation where luxury goods can flow to and from the sea in the Empire, but essentials cannot, at least not without paying Marienburger taxes.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
But what essentials are they shipping by sea? Internal goods, aside from to and from Ostland/Nordland can still travel by the river network, whether the mouth of the Reik is blockaded or not.

Yes, but Elector Counts are expected to march to each other's defense in the face of a pre-eminent threat, and the Empire has historically shown up when Kislev was existentially threatened by Chaos (the only thing that usually hits the Empire through Kislev).

Marienburg getting to sit such wars out entirely and not pay any taxes to Imperial coffers to finance the Emperor's own forces is a much more extreme form of free-riding than the Elector Counts engage in.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I was thinking more of Chaos Warbands or trolls. Not necessarily existential threats, but thing sthat the Empire would have to deal with if Kislev wasn't there. And they provide no support for taht, so far as I know. And indeed, they don't always march to Kislev's defense. They did for Asvar Kul and maybe Morkar, but apart from that, nothing.

The Elector Counts are theoretically bound to march to each other's defense. Pretty sure they don't always do that though. Indeed, there was that scene with the Emperor and Heidi, where they ran down a list of the Counts and why none of them would bother to help with Sylvania, despite 'Eastern Stirland' being an active warzone.

Earlier you observe that the Empire totally has sea access. I point out that their sea access is marginal and not connected with their main industrial centers by water.

Now you note that they have a third-rate Navy.

Do you think that's a coincidence?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think the Empire has always had a third rate navy, even when it owned Marienburg. It doesn't need or want an actually powerful navy, it wants to defend its coastline from Norscan raids, which it does. It needs a sea port to tap into international sea trade at all, but I don't think Marienburg specifically is vital to the Empire, even if they'd love to have it.

Mopman43 said:
Beyond the fact that the Chamberlain considered it a pretty serious matter, these are some quotes from Boney at the time the vote was about responses to the embargo.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is all very interesting, thanks. I don't believe it undermines my ultimate point (possession of Marienburg is not necessary for the Empire to have international trade - arguably it's able to have sea trade too - even if the canal stopped existing).

Mopman43 said:
If memory serves, it's not so much that the treaty is worded strangely, but rather that the treaty was negotiated with a legal entity- the Duchy of Westerland- that hasn't existed in almost 200 years. And Ulthuan has been coy about if they consider themselves bound to the treaty or not, given that fact.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ah, thanks. I knew it was something like that. Brings up the interesting question of how the treaty works if the Barony of Westerland became a thing again though.

Interesting discussion, but I'm going away for a bit because it's late. Just an FYI if people want to continue later.
 
deathofrats0808 said:
They did for Asvar Kul and maybe Morkar, but apart from that, nothing.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Definitely not Morkar, Kislev wouldn't be established for another 1,500 years. At the time, the land was only inhabited by nomadic Ungols and Roppsmen.

The only definite time we know of that the Empire came to aid Kislev directly was the Great War Against Chaos. But, trade and armaments have contributed considerably to Kislev's survival- Boris Bohka would not have been able to rebuild Kislev without the Empire. And, well, there's rather massive gaps in Kislev's history, it wouldn't be out of bounds to assume that Imperial forces might have aided Kislev at other times.
 
This either went really badly, or the 8 Peaks Reclamation Celebration involved everyone getting so drunk that they're all friends now.
 
Mopman43 said:
This either went really badly, or the 8 Peaks Reclamation Celebration involved everyone getting so drunk that they're friends now.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The celebration shouldn't even happen until they're gone, IIRC. Nah, I'm thinking this has something to do with the Waystones, but I've got no clue if it's good or bad. Maybe Thorgrim showed up and... something? Gah, now I'm going to be panicking for the next several hours.
 
ReImagined said:
Dry air has a resistance of roughly 1016​Ωm while pure water is around 107​Ωm. If you have water droplets suspended in the air, isn't that just pockets of less resistance?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Nope, higher actually, because the electricity finds it much harder to create an ionized path to anything, ionizing water doesn't do anything other than heat the water, ionizing the air has to curve around all the water, ensuring it cannot take the straight path, meaning it has to either boil the water or ionize something between 3-4 times as much air to traverse mist as open air.
deathofrats0808 said:
So, why are you quoting me when you say this? My point was that the canal breaks their trade monopoly and therefore makes them less attractive to invade. It does bring the side benefit of meaning the First Fleet isn't stuck in Altdorf if it's needed at sea and Marienburg aren't cooperating though.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm saying the trade monopoly has minor to negligible effects on Marienburg's desirability for conquest. Its lost clay, so theres the revanchists. With or without the canal, it remains positioned to be the premier trade center of the Old World, so theres the profit seekers.

That it allows Marienburg to threaten the Empire with a trade blockade is nigh irrelevant to the realities.
deathofrats0808 said:
But unless those things are being imported from foreign polities, or shipped in from Nordland/Ostland, the existing infrastructure still works normally. Like, Marienburg blocks sea access, but doesn't stop the Empire moving anything and everything it can on the rivers once they get there. And because the river system flows through so much of the Empire, I don't believe they move large quantities of necessary goods through Marienburg anyway. I think they mostly move international imports and exports. Which in a world where you can't count on not going to war with anyone, most likely means largely luxury goods.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Many of said things are imported. Domestic imperial production of nitrates doesn't mean much when you can't get the nitrates to Nuln - Marienburg can deliever Bretonnian Bat Poop to Nuln in a hundred times greater quantity, at greater speed than Wurtbad could.

Being able to make it somewhere in the Empire doesn't mean much if you can't get the goods to destination. The Empire's produced goods don't just pop into a spreadsheet and pop out when spent.
 
Last edited:
Going to bed real soon and might miss the updoot. Some notes, depending on whether we're getting the reclamation-celebration feast or a real turn vote first:
  • If we get the reclamation-celebration feast and a Boon/Great Deed vote: the thing I favor is spending the Transcendent Boon on the Great Library (which I have been trying to name Karak Kron) and a Great Deed on permission to establish a research institute so we can convert our wizard actions to research institute actions. I'd also like to spend our second Great Deed on equipping the college, if that's legal, because we're very low on College Favour and getting the magical equipment for free seems useful. (Though if it only costs money to get the important stuff, then that's less important; we've got lots of money.)
  • If we get our standard turn vote instead: I favor the Fog Path/conditional Overwork on Fog Path/meet Expedition Early/Protector use setup for our personals, and I strongly feel we should use our EIC action on infiltrating the Karnos cult, for reasons I outlined here and here.
EDIT: And as I post, Boney drops an excitement bomb on the thread. My girlfriend will probably be unhappy if I stay up camping the thread or if I set an alarm for the wee hours of the morning, alas.
 
Can we go two for two?

Who's home?

1: Literally nobody
2: Dreng
3: Belegar and Dreng
4: Belegar and Kazrik
5: Belegar, Kazrik, and Dreng
6: Belegar, Kazador, and Dreng
Boney threw 1 6-faced dice. Total: 3
3 3
 
BoneyM said:

Why, dice. Why you do this.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
So, looking at this, the pattern seems not to go from good to bad, or vice versa, but rather most likely to least likely? At least if we assume the Okral getting along well is more likely than feuding and causing an actual problem. Which might be the case, depending on whether Thorgrim was actually putting pressure on them to behave and we just got really unlucky over the last two turns. Toeing the line, at least, seems harder to have managed than either of those, so it makes some sense. IN that case... what's the most unlikely outcome?
BoneyM said:
Can we go two for two?

Who's home?

1: Literally nobody
2: Dreng
3: Belegar and Dreng
4: Belegar and Kazrik
5: Belegar, Kazrik, and Dreng
6: Belegar, Kazador, and Dreng
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
uh... OH dear god why? Who summoned another Waaagh!?
 
Are we actually having a dwarf civil war?

Edit: If we are could we managed to get the Orcs to attack again? That might stop it.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting will open in 7 hours, 56 minutes
Remove ads
Back
Top