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Dwarves, of course, being renowned for their willingness to go along with deception and trickery...

It's a non-starter in general. The Grey College is already giving a lot of leeway with the Vow of Poverty, going for more is not going to result in good things.
Lets not wake a sleeping demon.

Poking into one of the hard set rule regarding money and power will ends up with us on the receiving end of a knive in the dark from a grey master.

At this moment, we are not lacking either in friends, money, power or prestige.


You can never have too many friends.
 
You can never have too many friends.
I happen to agree. Unfortunately, Mathilde is actually vastly underfriended as she is now. There's a vast, vast network, larger than I think most Umgi or Dawi realise, of potential friends right around the metaphorical corner that Mathilde hasn't even begun to contact.

Thankfully, we happen to have the Manual of How to Make New, Old and Everlasting Friendships( L i b e r M o r t i s).
 
Welp, can only hope we're doing the pall of darkness action next turn and that we don't need to do fog path again then. That or we're going to be willing to do an over work action next turn to take it.
 
Why was Pall of Darkness important again? I've honestly forgotten.

..

It's the only action we have to improve our windsight trait.
1) If successful we can cast a spell which blankets a room in total darkness but Mathilde can still see through the darkness using her windsight.
2) It deepens her ability to utilise her windsight in general which potentially opens up a windsight trait improvement at the end of an arc or adventure. This expedition almost assuredly counts.
3) Doing this makes some fights utterly trivial as groups of enemies wont even be able to coordinate to fight together, we can also potentially teach johann how to see through pall of darkness with his windsight. If we do that we have a way for both of us to work together essentially invisible in the middle of enemy formations able to coordinate whilst literally no one else can.

I was hoping we'd do pall of darkness this turn so we could teach Johann how to look through it next turn so we could do more action adventure shenanigans with him.
 
..

It's the only action we have to improve our windsight trait.
1) If successful we can cast a spell which blankets a room in total darkness but Mathilde can still see through the darkness using her windsight.
2) It deepens her ability to utilise her windsight in general which potentially opens up a windsight trait improvement at the end of an arc or adventure. This expedition almost assuredly counts.
3) Doing this makes some fights utterly trivial as groups of enemies wont even be able to coordinate to fight together, we can also potentially teach johann how to see through pall of darkness with his windsight. If we do that we have a way for both of us to work together essentially invisible in the middle of enemy formations able to coordinate whilst literally no one else can.

I was hoping we'd do pall of darkness this turn so we could teach Johann how to look through it next turn so we could do more action adventure shenanigans with him.
A field of absolute darkness we can see through that allows us to take apart enemies with ease... am I the only one who's reminded of Grue by this? Other than the lack of sound-dampening the powerset is nigh identical.
 
Pall of Darkness, when cast with our Staff, is Relatively Simple. That hopefully means that it's much easier to cast non-verbally after we've just nuked somewhere with firebreath.

If we can see through Pall of Darkness, we may well also be able to do something like do the same thing that we're doing with Skywalk, have the spell repeatedly cast, and make a spell that repeatedly casts Pall of Darkness as we move around, allowing us to run around without having to manually chain cast. That would be a gamechanger in things like underground engagements. If we can get a long lasting enchantment of our Aethyric Armour Mastery then we can probably kill arbitrary numbers of enemies there, as it would be incredibly hard to fight us, given we could keep Substance of Shadows up indefinitely as well, and be selectively intangible*.

* At some point I'd like to see if we could modify Substance of Shadows to be Substance of Mist, substituting one of the elemental aspects of Ulgu for another.
 
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All it takes is one moment of bad luck, one moment of overconfidence, and we can die to even a relatively weak enemy (represented in-quest most likely by a string of terrible rolls). It's not likely, but it absolutely can happen. And don't forget, if Mathilde does get declared a dark magister for whatever reason, it's basically certain any group tasked with hunting her down will include Grey Magisters and people with information on Mathilde's known skills and gear (the seed, Branulhune, etc).

Pedantry: do empire people even know what Branulhune does? All they know iirc is that it is a stronk Dawi sword, and maaaaybe if they interview witnessess that she can summon it.

That's a daft name, seeing as some of its most famous practitioners (including its creator!) most certainly aren't/weren't vampires.

Considering Vampires are imperfect Nagash's, depends on one's definition of a vampire on that one.

I apologize for how confrontational this sounds, but on what grounds do you say that this is the "correct" wording? I'm not fluent, but I did grow up speaking Greek with my relatives. ίσκιος exists as a term for shadow, but I had to look it up. σκιά is in Attic and Koine Greek as well as Modern Greek; ίσκιος is of Byzantine origin. Is there something I am missing?
To be honest, at first I just went with what sounds right (as a fluent but not native Greek speaker). But at least in modern Greek, any and all compound words with the word for shadow in their root use iskio- over skia-. And even in ancient (Attic) Greek ἰσκιερός means "that which has shadow". Using Skia- with the -a ending in a coumpound word also just sounds wrong to a Greek speaker, similar to how mouse is "ποντίκι", but mouse trap is "ποντικοπαγίδα" not ποντικιπαγίδα".

But all this is being said by someone who was a shit student in ancient Greek (which I had to do for 6 years), so if a philologist points out how wrong I am or if Sciomancy (with an 'o') is already an established word, then I gladly concede.

As a Greek, I feel sorry I missed the greek discussion until there was nothing more to really add.

Lets not wake a sleeping demon.

Poking into one of the hard set rule regarding money and power will ends up with us on the receiving end of a knive in the dark from a grey master.

At this moment, we are not lacking either in friends, money, power or prestige.


You can never have too many friends.

I doubt there is any dark magister that can knife us in the dark at this point, unless we roll a 1. Maybe a grey lord magister.

I do agree this will end badly, with Mathilde hunted by the colleges and potentially even burning her bridges with the Dawi, but it won't be an instant game over like the thread is treating it. Black magister Mathilde has the skills to potentially survive and escape Empire persecution. That's not because she is stronger than the Empire, mind you, but rather, because the Empire and Colleges are stretched on so many fronts there is only so much power they can spare for Mathilde if she is not an existential threat, and, while its not a certain win for her that level of power is also not a certain game over.

Even though it is not what I'd ever vote for, I am confident that the quest can continue even if we go full Omegahugger without needing amazing rolls for us to survive, we'll just lose a big part of our friends, connections, money and prestige.
 
Arguably, thanks to Substance of Shadow, learning to see through Pall of Darkness would be a much bigger upgrade to Mathilde's lethality than a new sword style. It could be an enormous game changer.

Such a gamechanger, that I'm actually happy that we delayed it until next turn, as I will then advocate we put the Gambler on it if we complete the sog path spell this turn.

Considering Vampires are imperfect Nagash's, depends on one's definition of a vampire on that one.

Arguably, the original vampires were upgraded Nagashs according to some versions of canon, given he doesn't seem to have the vortex in their soul that condenses true dhar for his necromanny
 
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Arguably, the original vampires were upgraded Nagashs according to some versions of canon, given he doesn't seem to have the vortex in their soul that condenses true dhar for his necromanny
I think his original Elixir for eternal life made the drinkers constantly dependant on that stuff, so only needing blood or Dhar instead of one specific alchemical product is definitly a step up from his original.

However Nagash himself has propably become something entirely different since his various deaths and warpstone-mutations, so he seems at least harder to kill and prevent form returning than any Vampire by now.
 
I think his original Elixir for eternal life made the drinkers constantly dependant on that stuff, so only needing blood or Dhar instead of one specific alchemical product is definitly a step up from his original.

However Nagash himself has propably become something entirely different since his various deaths and warpstone-mutations, so he seems at least harder to kill and prevent form returning than any Vampire by now.

Nagash built the Black Pyramid as a nigh-indestructible piece of magical architecture that resurrects him, it doesn't seem an integral part of his transformation.

The Von Carstein Ring is a lot more convenient, but much easier to steal.
 
Arguably, thanks to Substance of Shadow, learning to see through Pall of Darkness would be a much bigger upgrade to Mathilde's lethality than a new sword style. It could be an enormous game changer.
Very Important Note:
Per the mechanics of warhammer, being Ethereal does not protect you from magical attacks. Substance of Shadow only makes you intangible to mundane physical weaponry.

The issue I have with Pall of Darkness as a combat option is that it is very 'all or nothing'. Against fodder it is a perfect I Win button. However against anyone with the ability to counter or disrupt it, it provides no benefit at all. And can be actively dangerous if combo-ed with Substance of Shadow.
In contrast the sword style will help to at least some degree against anything from Snotlings to Carnosaurs.
 
Nagash built the Black Pyramid as a nigh-indestructible piece of magical architecture that resurrects him, it doesn't seem an integral part of his transformation.

The Von Carstein Ring is a lot more convenient, but much easier to steal.
But he doesn't seem to need his own elixier anymore either.
And neither blood, or Dhar (at least not to stay "alive", only to Rezz himself).

So he has somehow beaten the disatvantages of his own Elixier and the Vampire-method alike.
 
Arguably, thanks to Substance of Shadow, learning to see through Pall of Darkness would be a much bigger upgrade to Mathilde's lethality than a new sword style. It could be an enormous game changer.

Such a gamechanger, that I'm actually happy that we delayed it until next turn, as I will then advocate we put the Gambler on it if we complete the sog path spell this turn.

I'm convinced next turn we need to have the coin on the protector. So that's a hard sell.
 
Very Important Note:
Per the mechanics of warhammer, being Ethereal does not protect you from magical attacks. Substance of Shadow only makes you intangible to mundane physical weaponry.

The issue I have with Pall of Darkness as a combat option is that it is very 'all or nothing'. Against fodder it is a perfect I Win button. However against anyone with the ability to counter or disrupt it, it provides no benefit at all. And can be actively dangerous if combo-ed with Substance of Shadow.
In contrast the sword style will help to at least some degree against anything from Snotlings to Carnosaurs.

It's not actively dangerous as long as we don't try to phase through walls while fighting other wizards who can dispel it at the point when they're dispelling it. Which thanks to our Windsight we'd know about in advantage.

It's not all or nothing either. Even when fighting enemies with magic weapons, we can still do things like dodge through them, or through what are obstacles to them but not us, which is an enormous advantage in non-white room combat. It also allows us to do things like ignore smoke or poison hazards.

Also, remember that magical weapons are very, very rare. Even super-elite troops and heroes don't reliably have them. Not even Chaos Warriors do. It's not just against fodder, it's against virtually everyone that Mathilde will ever meet.
 
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It's not actively dangerous as long as we don't try to phase through walls while fighting other wizards who can dispel it at the point when they're dispelling it. Which thanks to our Windsight we'd know about in advantage.

It's not all or nothing either. Even when fighting enemies with magic weapons, we can still do things like dodge through them, or through what are obstacles to them but not us, which is an enormous advantage in non-white room combat. It also allows us to do things like ignore smoke or poison hazards.

Also, remember that magical weapons are very, very rare. Even super-elite troops and heroes don't reliably have them. Not even Chaos Warriors do. It's not just against fodder, it's against virtually everyone that Mathilde will ever meet.

This is true, magical weapons are beyond rare, that said wizards enabling their soldiers to have effectively magical attacks isn't beyond possibility but you're correct substance of shadow is insanely powerful against almost any foe we could fight.
 
This is true, magical weapons are beyond rare, that said wizards enabling their soldiers to have effectively magical attacks isn't beyond possibility but you're correct substance of shadow is insanely powerful against almost any foe we could fight.

It's also a lot more effective underground, ironically, as I think you basically need line of sight to dispel it here, and that's much easier than on a battlefield.

We'd need BoneyM to confirm, but I'd hope that a mobile/chain cast version of Pall of Darkness would be relatively easier to develop after we've completed Fog Path, and might be something to look into after the Dum Expedition.
 
It's also a lot more effective underground, ironically, as I think you basically need line of sight to dispel it here, and that's much easier than on a battlefield.

We'd need BoneyM to confirm, but I'd hope that a mobile/chain cast version of Pall of Darkness would be relatively easier to develop after we've completed Fog Path, and might be something to look into after the Dum Expedition.

Impossible to say until you actually try it. It can be harder to reverse-engineer and alter a spell than it would be to just start from scratch a lot of the time.
 
Impossible to say until you actually try it. It can be harder to reverse-engineer and alter a spell than it would be to just start from scratch a lot of the time.
Who would you say is a better spell codifier (or at least, who did a better job with these spells): Melkoth for his Miasma, or the person who came up with Shadowsteed?

(I wonder if Mathilde's focus on the elemental side of Ulgu makes the mystical side look more impressive to me)
 
Who would you say is a better spell codifier (or at least, who did a better job with these spells): Melkoth for his Miasma, or the person who came up with Shadowsteed?

(I wonder if Mathilde's focus on the elemental side of Ulgu makes the mystical side look more impressive to me)

Shadowsteed for sure. That's a pretty esoteric thematic link to build a horse out of.
 
Impossible to say until you actually try it. It can be harder to reverse-engineer and alter a spell than it would be to just start from scratch a lot of the time.

Ah, I was hoping we could apply the same modular approach, and keep Pall of Darkness black-boxed, and have a parent chain cast it like we're trying with Skywalk. A shame if that's not possible, but, as you say, we may not know until we try.
 
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