Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
Reader mode
Glau said:
Oooooh, add this effect into fog path BM evolution and you get something that lets you literally waltz armies around eachother. As a payoff to Warrior of Fog, I can't think of a more appropriate spell.

Which way is easy to move? Which way is hard? Where is the enemy, in the fog?

Control of the answers can be yours with Mathilde's Weaponized Enshrouded Battlefield.

Trap your enemies in Mathilde's WEB.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
TBH, we might be better off with a modularised approach.
One Spell to blanket a large area with mundane fog (even easier now with the Staff of Mistery)-
BoneyM said:
You could be able to achieve something similar to a mundane fog bank to cover a significant chunk of a battlefield without reaching the level of Battle Magic, but manipulating the perception of hundreds at a time can be expected to be Battle Magic. But the power level as well as any quirks, limitations or drawbacks of a given spell would depend on rolls made while creating it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And add other individual Spells that just add to an(y) existing fog the other associated effects we've been spitballing, like-
- What Was That Sound?
- This Seems Like Solid Ground.
- How'd We Get Turned Around?
- Terror Shadow Tentacles Abound!!
 
Last edited:
I wonder if the reason Alrik's holding onto the throne is because he believes Ulthar to somehow be complicit in the murders? Ulthar benefits from his brothers' deaths, and Alrik might believe him radical enough to arrange such a thing. We know it's unlikely for Ulthar to have been involved, for various reasons, but the death of his sons in such a shameful way may have unhinged him a bit such that such a thing seems plausible?
 
Alliterate said:
TBH, we might be better off with a modularised approach.
One Spell to blanket a large area with mundane fog (even easier now with the Staff of Mistery)-

And add other individual Spells that just add to an existing fog the other associated effects we've been spitballing:
- What Was That Sound?
- This Seems Like Solid Ground.
- How'd We Get Turned Around?
- Terror Shadow Tentacles Abound!!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hmmm. The creation of a Fog Environment that makes other Fog spells and army maneuvers easier to cause and cast sounds sort of like Throne of Vines, doesn't it?
 
Glau said:
This is a bad situation. Aging, bitter king. Black sheep heir. Family shame of both the brothers' death and the king's refusal to shave his head. We've seen, I think, Ulthar (whom in my head is oakenshield from the Hobbit movie) having a faction around him when we found him in the hold, but I don't think he intends it to be one. But as friends and opportunitists assemble around him, the old king may see threat.

So a recipe for a paranoid ruler escalating. And given the king IS going to hear muttering that he should abdicate, and AFTER his two sons died 'to eachother' with only a single, now dead witness? I think he is going to go star chamber, and start destroying Innocents.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I suppose we could bring up investigating the matter, see if there's anything a grey wizard can turn up on whatever's going on in that hold.

I'm also in favor of presenting investigation of things like the source of the Mortis river(the destruction of the Blasphemy of Blood earlier in the quest implies that the river could be fixed by the destruction of an enchantment that is the source), or investigation of the trade routes across the badlands(there has to be a way to make them safer), or my personal favorite: trying to find Karak Zorn(c'mon, let's make Belegar responsible for the contacting of a new chunk of cutoff dwarves, like a southern young Thorgrim. It would greatly raise his prestige, and maybe open up ways to solve this feud by making him heir.)

Glau said:
It's really a luck spell, when you look at it: a low fog that blocks views of the ground, and makes sure your blind steps always land on the best terrain they could. At least, that is what it should feel like to the user, and I'm betting *most* of the underlying surfaces have to be about the same height and solid enough to anchor airwalk to....

Or is it? If the mass-skywalk is targeted at the travelers rather than filling in the ground, then going over walls should be possible, right?

But the point is, you could do this maliciously too. The terrain underfoot is always six inches higher or lower than you expect it to be. Swamps have feet and wheels funneled into them. Just WRECK charging horses utterly, like broken legs all around, GG.

So if we want to evolve fog path into battle magic, I think we could do something that would target speed for a buff/debuff, along with breaking line of sight.

Something perfect for denying battle, or for manuevering around an enemy army. Not useful on TT scales or with TT assumptions about engagement, but SUPER useful in a narrative game.

...

Oooooh, add this effect into fog path BM evolution and you get something that lets you literally waltz armies around eachother. As a payoff to Warrior of Fog, I can't think of a more appropriate spell.

Which way is easy to move? Which way is hard? Where is the enemy, in the fog?

Control of the answers can be yours with Mathilde's Weaponized Enshrouded Battlefield.

Trap your enemies in Mathilde's WEB.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think adding too many effects and concepts to one spell is going to make it too difficult, but I still really like the idea of an inverted version of the spell, using multiple castings of Skywalk and maybe Move to make everyone in the area of effect trip into potholes(caused by a skywalk with holes in it having raised them a bit above the ground) in the worst possible way.
If you want more effects than a 'makes movement easier/harder toggle', I'd recommend combining it with a second spell on the battlefield.

Even as it is, it's crazy useful, do you know how hard it is to find ideal ground for a heavy cavalry charge? There are so many things they can't charge over.
With the correct demonstrations I believe this spell could greatly increase the influence of the Grey Order in key Imperial Knightly Orders.
 
Last edited:
NexusEye said:
Ultimately it doesn't matter if Alrik is at fault, what matters is that other dwarves believe he is. As pointed out by @me.me.here two of his sons are kinslayers and the last one is a disowned and illegally reowned radical. Not to mention that the one son which isn't a burning shame to all dwarfkind is the one that deliberately tried to make himself the exact opposite of what his father wanted. That doesn't imply good things about Alrik's parenting skill. Even in the best case scenario where Alrik really is innocent of his sons actions he still failed to prevent it which is enough by dawi standards, stopping this kind of things is an implicit part of a king's duties. King's are supposed to dedicate their entire being to their Karak and if a major screwup is their fault they take the oath and if a king isn't at fault they're supposed to take the oath anyway out of shame. Either Alrik is refusing responsibility for his error or he values his own life above his honor, his Karak's honor, and the honor of every single dwarf in the Karak.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

A lot of folks seem to have taken my comment the wrong way. It's not to say that Alrik should be innocent in the eyes of other dwarves. Of course they blame him.

Ultimately it doesn't matter if Alrik is at fault,
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It does, because "what dwarves think of it" isn't the only important thing. "What's actually going on" is important too. The best possible interpretation of Alrik's actions is that he hasn't taken the Slayer Oath because he knows very well that there's some kind of major shitshow in his clan that he wants to resolve before leaving things to his son or that he doesn't think his son is capable of handling.

Would that absolve him in the eyes of the other holds? NO! But it might absolve him in Mathilde's eyes, or at the very least a closer examination of the actual political situation in the hold might well reveal that "remove Alrik" won't solve a damn thing and might actually make matters worse.
 
guyfromtheplace1 said:
I think adding too many effects and concepts to one spell is going to make it too difficult, but I still really like the idea of an inverted version of the spell, using multiple castings of Skywalk and maybe Move to make everyone in the area of effect trip into potholes(caused by skywalk having raised them a bit above the ground) in the worst possible way.
If you want more effects that a makes movement easier/harder toggle, I'd recommend combining it with a second spell on the battlefield.

Even as it is, it's crazy useful, do you know how hard it is to find ideal ground for a heavy cavalry charge? There are so many things they can't charge over.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
As long as it can work through one of those knee-high, hugs-the-ground types of mists.
Can't imagine it's great to be charging at an enemy you can't see either through that same impenetrable fog. Or drive a Steam Wagon through, for that matter.

But yeah, modular rather than 'do everything with one spell' seems like it could have better results, if requiring more work.

Might also work with adding selective effects to patches of the fog- sure footing here for our guys, sound and maybe direction confusion for them over there, and 'screams of death and terror' sounds at the back for their reserves to have... reservations about moving up into it.

Do it often and well enough, and even any regular fog you drop will have people reluctant to enter.
 
Last edited:
Glau said:
I think the point was more that oaths of fealty to your king override just about any misgivings dwarves might have, so there never would be a coup. His own karaks would never overthrow him. After all, the plotters would have to break their oaths even before they can make an attempt.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Not quite; what I was getting at is that it takes truly drastic circumstances to make a dwarf break their oath, and the fallout if things get that far is potentially incredibly nasty.

For the situation in Karak Hirn to boil over internally, it'd most likely take the shame over their king's behaviour just escalating and escalating until finally they start to snap, which isn't going to result in reasonable reactions. Honestly, I'd expect anything from violent murder attempts to suicide depending on the dwarf in question. If enough of the first happen at the same time, then that's a coup- and regardless of how justified they might personally feel it to be at the time, they'd still be seen as oathbreakers by basically every other dwarf out there. Then, depending on how the dwarves involved feel about their actions in the aftermath- whether they decide to go slayer out of shame, double-down and declare they were right, etc- things could end there and then, or they could escalate (their kin support them, other dwarves turn on them, other dwarven Karaks are oathbound to respond, etc) if they refuse to do the 'honourable' thing.

On the other hand, if the dwarves in Karak Hirn manage to keep the lid on their emotions then the look of the Karak will still be getting slowly worse and worse. We've already seen Belegar suspecting something is rotten is up with the entire ruling clan, and the longer Alrik refuses to shave his head the more widespread that view is likely to become. If that keeps up long enough, then at the low end you could end up with stuff like trade disruption, diplomatic snubs, and so on as the other Karaks start to consider them persona non grata. At the high end- which I'd like to emphasise is very unlikely- you end up with one of the other dwarven kings deciding Alrik's gone too far, that he's betrayed the ancestors, that the entire clan is hopelessly corrupt, and that he needs to be removed by force.

Putting it into simpler terms, the circumstances required to make dwarves break oaths all but guarantee that however they respond it will not be measured or rational. And if they think other dwarves are oathbreakers, especially if it's a serious oath like loyalty to their king, then they're similarly unlikely to react reasonably to it. Basically, they get hit coming and going, and the situation is even worse if there are multiple competing obligations or oaths in play.

This is, of course, only my opinion and understanding of how important dwarves hold their oaths, but to me at least it makes sense.
 
As far as I remember Mathilde has never been much into drinking and gambling. Starting with it now just to confront Panoramia with the worship of Ranald seems a bit silly to me.
Edit: I need to get my memory checked; see the next post.

[X] A Picnic in the Fields
[X] A Scenic Hike
 
Last edited:
Gingganz said:
As far as I remember Mathilde has never been much into drinking and gambling.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well that's just not true at all. :V
BoneyM said:
[Glory Unto Ranald: Piety, Req 40, 67+21+20(Empowered)=108.]
[Completely Sober Management: Stewardship, Req 50, 44+16-10(Goat-Kicked)=50.]
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
BoneyM said:
And how did your own gambling go?

[Gambling: Intrigue, 93+17=110.]

Splendidly, of course. You were the house, and the house's typical win/loss ratio is quite well known.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Lavaflow said:
Mathilde is into gambling when she can stack the deck very solidly in her favour.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I refute the implication that she wouldn't gamble when the odds were far worse than 'stacked'.
BoneyM said:
As unleashed greenskin energy whirls, you have a scant few seconds to use Mork's withdrawal to think clearly. Your act of cunning had allowed Mork to make you the conduit for his Cunning. But you already were a conduit for a God of Cunning, were you not? More than any mere worshipper. You have witnessed His battles, channelled His favour, and dedicated shrines to Him. Somewhere within you was the part where your own Ulgu-entwined soul reached out to Ranald, just as inside you was the part where Mork had slipped behind your eyes and used you as his puppet. All you have to do is bridge the two...

On another plane, Mork has just found himself sitting at a dice table with a man who always smiles, never blinks, and has every ace to ever exist up his sleeve.

A single die tumbles.

What other result could there be but Four, for the Fourfold God?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
I don't think we gambled significantly before the Citadel battle, though.
I don't recall Mathilde trading in a portion of her pay for Mootish Cocks Roosters as tokens. We set things in motion. Served as Ringmaster, sure.

No, we were the House, and Drunk Mathilde found an... innovative way to boost the House cut.
The roll you quoted followed up to state that the profits came not from gambling, but from theft. Or at the very least deceit.
BoneyM said:
The secret isn't a secret at all, it's obvious. Six thousand gamblers, free ale, insufficient lighting. It occurs to some to scour the area the next morning, either remembering dropping a coin or figuring others would have, but hours before dawn your final accomplice had beat them to it, the night's darkness meaningless for one attuned to the Wind of Metal, for whom every silver coin shines like a beacon. A great many coins signed for by the adventurers had returned to you by Maximilian. Gambling, theft, deceit... three out of four, you decide, will do. You can do some protecting tomorrow.

It's only the next morning as your sluggish brain follows through on the plans your ale-fuelled self had made that you realize that tithing this is going to raise quite a few eyebrows at the Bursary.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Edit- and Pit Boss.
BoneyM said:
Every so often there's a round of accusations of cheating, but you need only show up and glare at them until someone backs down.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Then, even when we dated/met Oswald in the Cat Gambling Temple, we pulled rank so as not to have to gamble, as I recall.
BoneyM said:
To those with the clout to not be subjected to the gentle but insistent reminders from the staff that this is a gambling establishment and one is expected to partake, it's one of the better places for a reasonably quiet drink.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
All that said, she's not opposed to gambling, couldn't really be a Ranald worshipper and be against it. Having set up the first proper Temple to Order gods in the reborn Karak- before any of the Ancestor Gods got more than a Shrine- to Ranalds Gambling aspect.
 
Last edited:
Well, this is pretty clear so far.
Adhoc vote count started by NexusEye on Sep 2, 2020 at 9:55 PM, finished with 382 posts and 121 votes.
Click to expand...
 
NuclearConsensus said:
I wonder if the reason Alrik's holding onto the throne is because he believes Ulthar to somehow be complicit in the murders? Ulthar benefits from his brothers' deaths, and Alrik might believe him radical enough to arrange such a thing. We know it's unlikely for Ulthar to have been involved, for various reasons, but the death of his sons in such a shameful way may have unhinged him a bit such that such a thing seems plausible?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If he thought that was the case, I think he'd have just gone with the Salkalten dockworker.
 
There's almost certainly more going on with Alrik's decision than we've been made aware of; we've just seen too many other similar cases in this thread, where people's actions seemed stupid or nonsensical but turned out to have good reasoning behind them, for me to think it's something as simple as 'he's arrogant'. The problem is, we just don't have enough info to accurately predict the specifics of why he's acting the way he is. Enough to make plenty of theories, sure, but not enough to know which one or ones are correct.
 
[X] Drinks and Dice

Changed my mind.
I'd like to see her views on religion.
Not only Mathy's. Just religions in general.

This quest has a big number of really great conversations about gods and faith.
Ranald's shenanigans, Gunnars explanations, Johann's vision, Cython's theories, Kasmir's bog trivia... I honestly want more.
 
Last edited:
After the expedition I think we should go to elf-land. If we're a bad enough dudette to handle the wastes we can handle Nagarythe without embarrassing ourselves.
 
Klaus said:
After the expedition I think we should go to elf-land. If we're a bad enough dudette to handle the wastes we can handle Nagarythe without embarrassing ourselves.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If nothing else, in the run-up to the Expedition we'll have completed most of the common items on the "Preparation for Elfcation" plans. New staff, battle magic, new spell, better robes, starting a custom sword style, etc.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting is open
Remove ads
Back
Top