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I disagree that river travel is all that much safer than land travel. Sure, the rivers are patrolled, but so are the roads and the seas. It's not like you can't get river bandits or monster either. Rivers also trap you a lot more effectively. You can't just leave the route you're taking if someone or something comes after you, it's fight it off or die.
River travel is faster, which means it has fewer random encounters. Only the risk from dedicated and fixed bandit ambushes remains the same.

Edit: Faster travel time also means faster patrols and thus more risk for the aforementioned organized bandits.
 
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People you do realise that there are cultures in history that consider fat far attractive than thin, there are cultures now which consider that the case.


Also, I'm still wondering why people aren't considering using Gamblers Armour (or armour of fortune since I just had look at magical armour), a Ranald themed armour from the tabletop, as a template to try and gain a ward save... I mean we are a servant of Ranald. Although it probably needs more knowledge to make
 
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You can fix ships a lot more reliably than you can fix caravans. Ship's Carpenter was a job for a reason. Caravans have pretty much all the same needs as a ship, but it's much more expensive to carry the extra people and materials.

Land travel is probably the preferred route to the East because it's a known route. Traveling unmapped or unknown routes is incredibly risky, and not a merchant enterprise. That's something you want state backing for, and none of the Old World nations really has the resources or interest yet.




I disagree that river travel is all that much safer than land travel. Sure, the rivers are patrolled, but so are the roads and the seas. It's not like you can't get river bandits or monster either. Rivers also trap you a lot more effectively. You can't just leave the route you're taking if someone or something comes after you, it's fight it off or die.

Rivers are massively faster than land travel, river monsters are highly capped at the size they can get to. No krakkens for one thing.


Also, I'm still wondering why people aren't considering using Gamblers Armour (or armour of fortune since I just had look at magical armour), a Ranald themed armour from the tabletop, as a template to try and gain a ward save... I mean we are a servant of Ranald. Although it probably needs more knowledge to make

Because actual armour destroys our ability to use magic. The robes work because the armour effect is entirely magical, if we go with actual armour then it interferes with our ability to cast and whilst it's possible to learn to work around it I expect that to be trait related.
 
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@BoneyM : I am guessing that figuring out silk weaving has been put on something of a back burner due to the help from Karaz-a-Karak sucking up a huge amount of Belegar's AP? Has to spend as much time as he can to make the best possible use of them that he can well they are here and they are not helpful for figuring out silk.

It's in Francesco's hands right now, so it's taking place off-screen.

Wait, rewarding a Clanless collective by making them into a new Clan was something completely unprecedented? And King Belegar just did it without much discussion? I thought it was based on old and long unused precedence or something. But in that case what he did is probably more radical and noteworthy to Dwarfdom than any of the Umgi Wizard games he plays.

It's technically something Kings have the power to do, but they usually don't because it upsets the existing power structures and having too many Dwarves and not enough Clans is normally the opposite of the problem.
 
I disagree that river travel is all that much safer than land travel. Sure, the rivers are patrolled, but so are the roads and the seas. It's not like you can't get river bandits or monster either. Rivers also trap you a lot more effectively. You can't just leave the route you're taking if someone or something comes after you, it's fight it off or die.
The difference is that a river and the area of land on either side from which threats can credibly attack riverine traffic is a relatively small area. It's easier to defend.

Furthermore, truly effective river pirates need boats, and the boats are themselves vulnerable to being destroyed. Once reports of river piracy spread, it's relatively straightforward to investigate and localize the boats responsible because they are, again, pinned down to the line of a river.

Rivers aren't inherently safe, but it's easier to secure a river than a road, and easier to secure either than to secure a "sea-lane" that can potentially be threatened by ships striking out from hundreds of miles away in enemy territory.
 
Because actual armour destroys our ability to use magic. The robes work because the armour effect is entirely magical, if we go with actual armour then it interferes with our ability to cast and whilst it's possible to learn to work around it I expect that to be trait related.
Or you know trying to combine that trait with the robes...

Since Ranald has given the blessing to actual (heavy) armour is there a reason he wouldn't be willing to add it to robes
 
You can fix ships a lot more reliably than you can fix caravans. Ship's Carpenter was a job for a reason. Caravans have pretty much all the same needs as a ship, but it's much more expensive to carry the extra people and materials.

Land travel is probably the preferred route to the East because it's a known route. Traveling unmapped or unknown routes is incredibly risky, and not a merchant enterprise. That's something you want state backing for, and none of the Old World nations really has the resources or interest yet.
But equally reliant on shelter to do the fixing, just going on threat variety at the moment I'd still take a caravan. This will change when ships that are fast enough or powerful enough to make a trip are developed of course.
 
I happen to remember a couple of bits in one of the ToL books that at least a pair of normal Skaven (the ones in charge of interaction with Nagash) manage to survive at least one or two centuries.
Skaven have both plot armor, and lemmings like behavior. They can do anything plot demands, but for normal Skaven to live centuries is like your average human to live a millennia (Looks at the Empress).

There was this one quest where Alucard takes a vacation in Warhammer and he goes to the Morrslieb. Skaven have a mining operation there, where they mine Warpstone off the moon and all I could think was yeah. They'd totally do that.

All this is to highlight that Skaven do what Skavens do and the Conspiracy of the Silence is there for a reason: Skaven, as written in Warhammer lore, are totally outside of the power curve compared to everyone else.

Also, I juts love the idea of Lahmians having the Empress in their grasp. And the end result of "We killed the Empress. All hail the new Empress." I'd think even the Grey Order would be impressed by the end result...
 
You can fix ships a lot more reliably than you can fix caravans. Ship's Carpenter was a job for a reason. Caravans have pretty much all the same needs as a ship, but it's much more expensive to carry the extra people and materials.

Land travel is probably the preferred route to the East because it's a known route. Traveling unmapped or unknown routes is incredibly risky, and not a merchant enterprise. That's something you want state backing for, and none of the Old World nations really has the resources or interest yet.




I disagree that river travel is all that much safer than land travel. Sure, the rivers are patrolled, but so are the roads and the seas. It's not like you can't get river bandits or monster either. Rivers also trap you a lot more effectively. You can't just leave the route you're taking if someone or something comes after you, it's fight it off or die.

It's made very clear in multiple places in canon, that rivers are vastly safer than the roads. Beastmen can just walk out of the forest next to the rod, but aren't very good at boat building. Forest goblins aren't much better.

You can also travel much faster on a river.
 
People you do realise that there are cultures in history that consider fat far attractive than thin, there are cultures now which consider that the case.


Also, I'm still wondering why people aren't considering using Gamblers Armour (or armour of fortune since I just had look at magical armour), a Ranald themed armour from the tabletop, as a template to try and gain a ward save... I mean we are a servant of Ranald. Although it probably needs more knowledge to make

What's your source for these? From some quick googling these seem to have been invented for Total Warhammer.
 
River travel is faster, which means it has fewer random encounters. Only the risk from dedicated and fixed bandit ambushes remains the same.

Edit: Faster travel time also means faster patrols and thus more risk for the aforementioned organized bandits.
River travel is faster than land travel, but that benefits profit, not safety.

Random encounters aren't actually a real thing. Bandits don't roam randomly hunting for people to attack, they pick a road or a village or a point and attack people who pass through.

Faster patrols doesn't mean better patrols. You want more patrols for better patrols.

Rivers are massively faster than land travel, river monsters are highly capped at the size they can get to. No krakkens for one thing.
Monster size is an excellent point. I don't tend to think of monsters as the primary threat to travel though, as AFAIK most animals won't chase a fleeing ship.


The difference is that a river and the area of land on either side from which threats can credibly attack riverine traffic is a relatively small area. It's easier to defend.

Furthermore, truly effective river pirates need boats, and the boats are themselves vulnerable to being destroyed. Once reports of river piracy spread, it's relatively straightforward to investigate and localize the boats responsible because they are, again, pinned down to the line of a river.

Rivers aren't inherently safe, but it's easier to secure a river than a road, and easier to secure either than to secure a "sea-lane" that can potentially be threatened by ships striking out from hundreds of miles away in enemy territory.
Roads have pretty much the same area limitations as a river though. Like, if you can park a dozen bandits fifty feet from a road, you can do the same for a river. You just need a slightly better scouting system.

Not necessarily. Effective river bandits need either a boat, or a way to stop the travelers. A narrow spot, or just one where ships have to slow to make a particular turn will do. And again, that's the same for ambushing caravans. You need something to slow them down, or speed yourself up.

I agree it's easier to secure a river or road than it is the sea, but I still don't think river travel is a massive boost in safety compared to current travel, and especially not compared to literally taking a ship from Marienburg to Tilea, which can stick close to the shore and only travels relatively organized territory.


But equally reliant on shelter to do the fixing, just going on threat variety at the moment I'd still take a caravan. This will change when ships that are fast enough or powerful enough to make a trip are developed of course.
Ships are though? Like, Bretonnia has basically 18th century ships. And sure, it helps a hell of a lot to be able to shelter in place while you fix stuff, but if you're in a fight, you can't fix caravans either so...


It's made very clear in multiple places in canon, that rivers are vastly safer than the roads. Beastmen can just walk out of the forest next to the rod, but aren't very good at boat building. Forest goblins aren't much better.

You can also travel much faster on a river.
I've been told this before, but never actually seen anything say that.


What's your source for these? From some quick googling these seem to have been invented for Total Warhammer.
Gambler's Armour is in 8th Edition. Heavy armour with a 6+ ward save. No reference to Ranald though, because it's a common magic item.
 
He takes a drink. "I do think if it did come down to that, you would have been okay. A few uncomfortable debriefs and closer scrutiny for a while. That's part of how the Grey College works - we project an aura of being so harsh on our own that people think we're easy to blackmail, and that leads to us finding a lot of blackmailers. But I had to let it play out, so I told you what they thought the consequences would be for you. So you got placed on the board as a piece in their scuffle over Sylvania."

So I was thinking... they say the grey college kills more of their own magisters than all other colleges combined.

Isn't that also a good reputation to have if you want an easy to use pretext to fake deaths without arousing suspicion? How many of said executions are actually real, I am starting to wonder...
 
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"And one set of 'natural causes'. How'd you manage that?"

He smiles. "Let's just say there was an Amethyst looking to shore up their position."
Huh, Elspeth?
Yeah. Army of Stirland gets the mark-twos, which means the EIC has a bunch of mark-ones coming back in as they get cycled out. Wilhelmina turned them into profit and protection
And eventually the Templars, firearm enthusiasts that they are, will want newer and shinier toys, so she sells them Mk IIs for their Mk Is and gold, and then sells said lovingly used, Witch Hunter-approved even (!), firearms to the Elector Counts next province over who are thinking about trying this "firearm" thing. If it's good enough for the Templars of Sigmar, it's good enough for your troops, ain't that right?
 
Reaction to the Regimand social action: holy shit, from the outside, a loyal Grey Wizard doing a bunch of prosocial scheming looks distressingly like a genuine Black Magister who saw which way the wind was blowing, burned his masters to stave off suspicion, and assassinated the Empress for giggles.

Did he ever debrief Algard on this? Like, OK, his point about better to ask for forgiveness than permission when doing your crazy MI6 bullshit makes sense, but he didn't actually mention ever asking forgiveness. Just the part where he murdered his way through a list.
 
No idea, but Grey Seers do live longer than normal Skaven due to a combination of magic and better living conditions. Also likelymuch easier access to whoever makes the skaven juvnat so conceivably.
on the other hand that gets balanced out by things like "snorting powdered warpstone like coke"
 
Gambler's Armour is in 8th Edition. Heavy armour with a 6+ ward save. No reference to Ranald though, because it's a common magic item.

Ah, so it is. Not too sure about the Ranald connection, the names would suggest it but one of the strictures of Ranald says 'only amateurs and the slow-witted need armour'. In any case, Divine enchantment would be outside Mathilde's wheelhouse, even though she is close to Him.
 
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Roads have pretty much the same area limitations as a river though. Like, if you can park a dozen bandits fifty feet from a road, you can do the same for a river. You just need a slightly better scouting system.

Not necessarily. Effective river bandits need either a boat, or a way to stop the travelers. A narrow spot, or just one where ships have to slow to make a particular turn will do. And again, that's the same for ambushing caravans. You need something to slow them down, or speed yourself up.

I agree it's easier to secure a river or road than it is the sea, but I still don't think river travel is a massive boost in safety compared to current travel, and especially not compared to literally taking a ship from Marienburg to Tilea, which can stick close to the shore and only travels relatively organized territory.

Remember we're talking about rivers that can be a mile across far inland (everything is bigger in Warhammer). These rivers are navigable by ocean crossing ships very deep into the Empire. These are enormous channels. You need a boat. Because of the terrain, it's not easier to secure a road. It's hard to the point of being nigh on impossible in Warhammer, as the great majority of what's inside the external borders of the Empire is literally enemy territory, owned and occupied by beastmen and greenskins. What you can do is punch through hard and fast enough to penetrate through the enemy forces. That's easier to do on a river when you have a significant advantage in force concentration on ships that caravans don't have.
 
Hm, I wonder if Avatar lets us apply Windherder to divine magic? An interesting point of study if nothing else, as we are also naturally gifted in enchanting.
 
Ah, so it is. Not too sure about the Ranald connection, the names would suggest it but one of the strictures of Ranald says 'only amateurs and the slow-witted need armour'. In any case, Divine enchantment would be outside Mathilde's wheelhouse, even though she is close to Him.

Channelling my inner Ranaldite cheater, need and want may be different things. You could interpret it to mean that you should be good enough to survive and prosper if caught without it, but that as a nice to have it's fine.

That could be reflected by the protection not always working, so you can't count on it...
 
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:|
The annoying thing about this is that we don't even have enough info to take this to Belegar. Celestials.
It's not quite that useless, we have some information. She doesn't just say that the expedition could end badly, she specifically hopes we can help them, which implies that we, personally, can make the difference between success and failure.

She also didn't warn us about anything at K8P, which suggests there won't be any crises at K8P during the same time period, because those would have higher priority for our efforts and preparation and probably be easier to divine. So the implication that we have at least a short time when we can afford to turn away from domestic matters is slightly useful.
 
Honestly, any part of a river that's narrow enough for bandits without boats to be a threat is going to be heavily patrolled anyway just to make sure that beastmen don't slaughter any boats going down that narrow.
 
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