Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
Reader mode
If you want to trap people in a fog Ulgu style I could see the following variations:
-Moderately Complicated - Create an area of dense fog for a short duration. Behaves as dense fog would. Mechanically its a reskin of Pall of Darkness, trading off absolutely impenetrability for potentially longer duration.

-Fiendishly Complicated - Mathilde already has this - her mastery of Universal Confusion would create a fog which would legitimately be difficult to leave...admittedly because they'd be confused and running around flailing at the air.

-Low Battlemagic - Variation on Smoke and Mirrors, as a borderline Battle Magic which blurs space within the confines of a vision-obstructing effect.

-Serious Battlemagic - Just Pit of Shades them...its technically trapping people.
 
Tasoli said:
It occurs to me that Thread seems to have completely missed the greatest Ward save idea and got stuck on the idea of teleporting Mathilde away from the danger but I feel like it is wrong way around.

I mean why not use Smoke and Mirrors to teleport the incoming attack away from Mathilde? Or even better teleport it backwards so it looks like it looks like reflected back. I mean Spell called Smoke and Mirrors for a reason.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Boney already shot this down, but I want to add: Trying to read power into an evocative spell name this way sounds like a great way to get the spell renamed to "Short Distance Teleport" or something equally bland.

Context: "Smoke and Mirrors" should not be read as a list of two things, it's an English-language stock phrase derived from a specific setup where you use the light from an off-screen illuminated object or projector, reflected via a mirror or series of mirrors, projected onto a cloud of smoke, in order to produce an illusionary visual display of an object hovering in mid-air. The phrase has since been generalized to mean "things that aren't located where you see them" and "things that look real but have no substance".

The fact that the short-distance teleport spell is named "Smoke and Mirrors" refers primarily to its ability to put the caster somewhere else. It absolutely does not give the spell vague arbitrary powers to 'reflect' things just because the name sounds similar.

Also, the spell does not allow Mathilde to step into mirrors, travel via reflections, turn into smoke, or control smoke.
 
Exmorri said:
The fact that the short-distance teleport spell is named "Smoke and Mirrors" refers primarily to its ability to put the caster somewhere else. It absolutely does not give the spell vague arbitrary powers to 'reflect' things just because the name sounds similar.

Also, the spell does not allow Mathilde to step into mirrors, travel via reflections, turn into smoke, or control smoke.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I just wanted to teleport incoming stuff away. I am not suggesting any other. So nice strawman you have there.
 
Tasoli said:
I just wanted to teleport incoming stuff away. I am not suggesting any other. So nice strawman you have there.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A strawman would be if I attributed those things to you in order to pretend I'd won an argument with you. Here I am raising them as other examples of ways one shouldn't try to read too much into spell names in general.
 
Exmorri said:
A strawman would be if I attributed those things to you in order to pretend I'd won an argument with you. Here I am raising them as other examples of ways one shouldn't try to read too much into spell names in general.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I am not reading too much in to it. I just wanted to make nice idea fit in to the name. IF you can teleport something back to its caster it would make sense and would be a neat idea to tie that to spells name. No need to be patronizing about it.
 
BoneyM said:
Throttling and Roiling Shadows just need to do a set thing to what it encounters, Shadowsteed just needs to go in whatever direction Mathilde indicates. If you're looking for something that can move and fight independently, that's either a lot of programming you need to mentally encompass every time you cast a spell, or... you need it to be able to think for itself. Which isn't insurmountable, but it is very tricky, and the easiest answer (note: not necessarily best answer) is daemons. Or the souls of the dead. The harder answers are generally very closely kept secrets. The Golds aren't telling what the deal is with Gehenna's Golden Hounds, nor are the Jades about the Dwellers From Below. Ask an Amber Wizard about Flock of Doom, and they'll mutter something about 'Corvus the Crow Lord' and change the subject.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Didn't Shadowsteed basically navigate the roads and such even while Mathilde was engrossed in reading books? I think it would make more sense for Shadowsteed to follow a basic direction while having the ability to automatically navigate basic paths (like roads and such) along that direction. This would make sense because it's a magic horse, and horses do have the natural ability to follow a road without training--we do see a number of spells that can take a basic order and "fill in" the general, basic steps of accomplishing that (like a Flock of Doom, which probably doesn't require the caster to control each crow individually as it attacks the target).
 
SaltyWaffles said:
Didn't Shadowsteed basically navigate the roads and such even while Mathilde was engrossed in reading books? I think it would make more sense for Shadowsteed to follow a basic direction while having the ability to automatically navigate basic paths (like roads and such) along that direction. This would make sense because it's a magic horse, and horses do have the natural ability to follow a road without training--we do see a number of spells that can take a basic order and "fill in" the general, basic steps of accomplishing that (like a Flock of Doom, which probably doesn't require the caster to control each crow individually as it attacks the target).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It navigates the road in the same way that a bank of fog navigates the terrain: by flowing over it, uncaring. And Flock of Doom is a substantially more powerful spell, and as that quote says, the Ambers don't share how it works.
 
Thinking about it do we have any spell that hides us from divination? We might need one and we do have Warrior of Fog trait that is perfect for such spell.
 
There's an Azyr spell that burns right through our Ulgu concealment magics, rendering them as nothing. Azyr is the Divination wind- so I'm not sure what that says about the relative ability of Ulgu to conceal versus Azyr to reveal, but it doesn't sound as if Ulgu has had the final word in the argument so far.
 
Last edited:
Exmorri said:
Boney already shot this down, but I want to add: Trying to read power into an evocative spell name this way sounds like a great way to get the spell renamed to "Short Distance Teleport" or something equally bland.

Context: "Smoke and Mirrors" should not be read as a list of two things, it's an English-language stock phrase derived from a specific setup where you use the light from an off-screen illuminated object or projector, reflected via a mirror or series of mirrors, projected onto a cloud of smoke, in order to produce an illusionary visual display of an object hovering in mid-air. The phrase has since been generalized to mean "things that aren't located where you see them" and "things that look real but have no substance".

The fact that the short-distance teleport spell is named "Smoke and Mirrors" refers primarily to its ability to put the caster somewhere else. It absolutely does not give the spell vague arbitrary powers to 'reflect' things just because the name sounds similar.

Also, the spell does not allow Mathilde to step into mirrors, travel via reflections, turn into smoke, or control smoke.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah right, next you're gonna tell me that Mockery of Death doesn't involve laughing at a corpse or Mindhole doesn't mean stabbing someone in the brain. :V
 
Hmm.
You make yourself look like a nightmare creature of purest dread.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I wonder, would Starshine negate the quasi-shadow-reality of our Dread Aspect terror-shadow? The base spell is just 'you look terrifying', and Starshine banishes darkness and exposes disguises, so it probably would.
On the other hand, Mathildes' (empowered) shadow genuinely is a terrifying stabby source of death.
 
Last edited:
Alliterate said:
Hmm.

I wonder, would Starshine negate the quasi-shadow-reality of our Dread Aspect terror-shadow? The base spell is just 'you look terrifying', and Starshine banishes darkness and exposes disguises, so it probably would.
On the other hand, Mathildes' (empowered) shadow genuinely is a terrifying stabby source of death.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It'd probably remove the Terror effect, but the truth that would be revealed when the illusion is stripped away is that Mathilde really does have a shadow that's actively trying to kill people, and probably having no small amount of success in doing so. I can't imagine it being entirely reassuring.
 
BoneyM said:
It'd probably remove the Terror effect, but the truth that would be revealed when the illusion is stripped away is that Mathilde really does have a shadow that's actively trying to kill people, and probably having no small amount of success in doing so. I can't imagine it being entirely reassuring.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
"SHOW ME YOUR TRUE FORM DEMON!"
Man-murdering murder-shadow remains.
"...."
 
Alliterate said:
There's an Azyr spell that burns right through our Ulgu concealment magics, rendering them as nothing. Azyr is the Divination wind- so I'm not sure what that says about the relative ability of Ulgu to conceal versus Azyr to reveal, but it doesn't sound as if Ulgu has had the final word in the argument so far.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Perhaps we should give it a go. I mean Warrior of Fog is perfect trait to see if it is Ulgu at fault or just collage not having right spells. I am guessing Celestials got longer tradition before Teclis time while Greys lacked the same which might be an explanation. Or it might not.
 
In some ways, it's like the difference between Ulgu we know, and Ulgu used for Battle Magic.

Our regular everyday shadow is inquisitive, independent of will, perhaps even capricious, but when it gets a mainline hit of Ulgu, it twists and turns and lashes out violently, a danger to those around us. Our enemies, so far.
(I don't think we've actually used in much when we're surrounded by friendlies, come to think of it?)

I think it would behoove Mathilde to follow Regimands example and attempt to tame her Shadow.
We might learn something, but in particular before any possible journey to the Chaos Wastes, learning about the previous results of magic (nearly) slipping out of our control might be of value to understand say any weird Wastes-induced effects on our casting.

There's also this.
BoneyM said:
[Cleric Gunnars: 100.]
...
"You're sure?"

"Entirely. Look," he says, pointing down at your shadow, which as always was wandering freely. "Zhuf-soul. Possession is the same body, same mind, but replaces the soul. Still Zhuf-soul, still her."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Gunnars rockstar introduction, (thankyou Gunnars), but the (natural?) 100 revealed that Gunnars knows souls.
If he saw in our undisciplined shadow a reflection of Mathilde's soul, does that say anything about her? Could she achieve greater levels of self-control, self-awareness, centering, or similar through mediating on controlling her shadow, and what it means for it to wander freely?
 
Last edited:
It's not just Azyr that cramps the Greys' style. Light wizards have a similar spell, but rather than negating hiddenness in a certain area, it gives the wizard themselves the ability to see through it. Magical stealth vs magical anti-stealth is a rock-scissors-paper game where anti-stealth is rock, stealth is scissors, and there is no paper.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting is open
Remove ads
Back
Top