Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Yes, they may desert and thus lose the duty to follow our orders, but while they are there we'll be their boss.
Given that wizards have much better options on what to do than armies, I worry that if we botch our relations with them, we'll end up the leader of wizards with no actual wizards willing to follow us.

Armies have much less independence, in comparison. To remain viable and worth the "gold and glory" they're promised, they have to stay cohesive and united behind a cause. Or turn to banditry.

Wizards can just up and leave if they don't have some deep obligations. Which they don't, since they're beholden to the Empire and Colleges, not the dwarves. If they don't want to be under our command, this army is going to lose valuable wizards, so here's hoping our diplo is up to scratch.
 
I thought lesser spells usually get lesser misshaps?
If a Battlewizard fucks up it's cities on fire and demons in the streets.
If a journeyman fucks up it's a lot less likely to be deadly to other people than himself, and maybe not even that.

Technically, Miscasts for a simple spell can snowball into "Daemons everywhere".

It's unlikely, but possible.
 
Why? They can always de-volunteer if they don't like us or being under our control. Journeymen have quite a bit of freedom.

That doesn't mean they will or that it would be smart for them to do so, but it does mean that they can.
As the Stirlanders can, after being told to change allegiance from their native Sigmar for some other god when Mathilde's anti-Sigmarism comes into play.

Also, this stage of the campaign is meant to dictate the forthcoming structure of the military hierarchy — your insistence that we could just commandeer the Wizards after they've joined up with some other guys' focuses strikes me as suspect.
 
[X] Accept as leader of the Stirlander forces (commanding 5,000 crossbowmen and 5,000 huntsmen).
[X] The Stirlander forces
[X] Spend time with your wolf pup, trying to develop a famliar bond.
[X] Deliver last-minute messages for Belegar, trying to scrape together any remaining support to be had before leaving.
- [X] To Dwarfholds of the Grey and Black Mountains.
 
As the Stirlanders can, after being told to change allegiance from their native Sigmar for some other god when Mathilde's anti-Sigmarism comes into play.

Also, this stage of the campaign is meant to dictate the forthcoming structure of the military hierarchy — your insistence that we could just commandeer the Wizards after they've joined up with some other guys' focuses strikes me as suspect.
Suspect? What are you on about? I only mentioned it once..

On a non-silly note, as I've mentioned, armies are much less mobile. They can't just simply abandon this campaign, because it's likely what's paying for them to remain functioning as an army. As well as fed.

They'd need to risk unemployment, which is rather difficult if you've got 10 000 mouths to feed and are in friendly territory, meaning foraging is going to be frowned upon. No, Stirlanders are unlikely to have all that many options. They're in it for the long haul.

I do agree that Mathilde's anti-Sigmarism is an issue. Luckily that isn't the only faith Stirlands armies follow and she's against it being the dominant or controlling faith, because removing it entirely is something she considers impractical. I'm not too sure what the faith status of the Stirland contingent really is at this time, but of course, it's likely to be up to rolls like most things.
 
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Our magic users have to be coordinated without working together very effectively this invasion will have no chance resisting any magical attack whatsoever, and there is no one who is qualified to do that other than us. There are however many people who could lead Stirlands army.
 
I see the whole army vs mages issue as less about what unit will be more useful for Matilde or where Mathilde can make more of a difference, but as one of aspirations and self-image, who Mathilde is going to be. Currently, she is a mage who sabbles in research, enchantment, swordplay, marksmanship, business, and, of couse, spycraft. She is spread thin enough as she is, please, do not add fraking army command to the list of the things she needs to learn doing. Or, if you are absolutely insistant upon it (which is fine in itself), consider what she could abandon to get a bit more focused.
 
[X] Accept as the most senior Wizard present (commanding two Amber Journeymen and one Gold Journeyman).
 
I remember there being a journeyman wizard that had a pretty large effect on the campaign they participated in. Recently even. Somewhere in Sylvania I think?
We oneshotted a vampire with burning shadows, which in that situation probably equals saving three or four thousand soldiers. We also didn't make any major campaign contribution as a spymistress.
Double critical, comboed with Kasmir.

So as long as our tiny wizard corps consistently criticals in every battle, we'll be all set!
Personally, I don't want to sideline Roswita and become de facto ruler of Stirland. Therefore, I don't want to start a fight where that's our only winning outcome. Therefore, I don't want to go back to the Empire as the leader of a hard bitten, glorious, private army of Stirlanders that the Countess didn't give us. Therefore, I don't want to make that our win condition for this expedition. Therefore, I don't want command of the Stirland contingent.
It's like, I read these words coming out of your mouth, but I don't understand them at all.

You... don't want these things to happen?
 
On an unrelated note, the name Dwarfs give mages really cracks me up. Zhufokri, or "Torrent/Waterfall Craftsmen". It encapsulates both the bewilderment of "why would you ever do that?" and the grudging respect of accomplishing such a ridiculous achievement.
 
[x] Accept as the most senior Wizard present (commanding two Amber Journeymen and one Gold Journeyman).
[x] Deliver last-minute messages for Belegar, trying to scrape together any remaining support to be had before leaving.
- [X] To Elector Counts.
- [X] To the Colleges of Magic.
- [X] To Dwarfholds of the Grey and Black Mountains.


Y'all have no idea how much I'm looking forward to this.
 
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We contributed more as a warrior and a spymaster then a wizard. Besides, we were pretty much magister level by the time the conflict got going.
And we have no idea what kind of Journeymen BoneyM just threw at us.
I'm just saying that using Mathilde's situation in Sylvania as an example of what your normal journeyman can do isn't the best idea.
I have to admit that what I said was mostly tongue in cheek.
Actually not at all.
Speaking for the Stirlanders means we take responsibility for them as a Knight of Stirland, we will be in charge of suggesting means which they may be used, and we MAY optionally, lead them in the field directly(I SERIOUSLY doubt out of ten thousand soldiers who ragequit there are zero officers, or possibly one or two of our former attaches)

Speaking for the Wizards. means we take responsibility for the Journeymen as a Magister of the Colleges, we'll be in charge of being aware of and suggesting means by which they can be employed in the field, and we may optionally directly take command of them for missions and ambushes. They have independent initiative, but this is for their discussion at the top level strategy panel

Going for a whynotboth here is somewhat problematic.
You misunderstand me. Speaking for one or the other means that we officially take control and responsibility for those forces. But think of what will happen to the forces we don't speak for.

If we go with the Wizards then they will have to obey us or be at odds with the King commanding this whole campaign. We will override their ideas if we don't like them and our suggestions will be more like commands, for good or ill. But we're also a newly minted Magister with only limited knowledge of their arts. Whenever we aren't micromanaging the journeymen or advising the council we'll be doing whatever we deem right with our varied skills.
The army from Stirland will get some random rolled up dude leading them and will be beholden to one or more the War Council's military commanders.

If we take command of the Stirland contingent we have to deal with that near constantly. But we also get to apply our considerable Martial to most battles in this campaign on a larger scale than we'd get just charging into combat. The forces also include a large number of woodsmen.
The journeymen will be directly under the King, who, due to lack of time, will probably routinely assign them to one or more commanders of his war council and, due to lack of experience and knowledge, will ask the most qualified of his advisors as to how to do that. Guess which one that would be. Often the journeymen would, according to the dwarves, will be free to apply their arts however they think best as long as they don't mess things up with their almost chaotic ways. But according to College customs we are still their senior and deserving of respect, if not obedience. In fact them doing us favor means doing a favor to a Grey College Magister, something that they expect could matter even after going back home.

So my argument is that all we lose by going the military commander route is free time and hard control over three journeymen, and responsibility for their mishaps. They will still be nearly as useful in my opinion. But if we don't go for that we risk 10,000 ranged troops getting underutilized and their needs and worries neglected. three important individuals can always curry favor with us. 10,000 will have a much harder time at it, and we a harder time convincing whoever is in charge of them in the war council to see things our way, being merely the magic councilor and all.
 
As the Stirlanders can, after being told to change allegiance from their native Sigmar for some other god when Mathilde's anti-Sigmarism comes into play.
That's a very good point. We won't tolerate Sigmar worship in an institution we control. Installing another god amongst the most hidebound of default-Sigmarite Stirlanders is going to hit morale hard.
 
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Mathilde doesn't need more glory or rep as a military leader. She's a grey wizard - the people who need to know her name and fame beyond that is detrimental. Not that Stirland commander is the more prestigious choice as there are half a dozen commanders of soldiers on the council but only one commander of wizards. Moreover that's the sort of prestige that does contribute to our career.

What's more, the winning vote for why have we joined was overwhelmingly as a wizard of the colleges. Fortune and glory or as a knight didn't really figure. Suddenly switching because there's a lot of Stirlanders to be had feels off. I doubt it will raise us in the estimation of the Dawi.

OC it doesn't interest me that much to take the noble commander role. That itch is already scratched by von Hohenzollern, Rutheen, de Montdort et al. Let Mathilde do something different. Please.
 
Partially random question @BoneyM, but how do the dwarves view halflings? I recall that you elaborated that the Dawi view humans as Vornari and Elves aren't even compared to a useful plant or mineral, so what are halflings compared to?
 
The benefits of having a lot of fodders is having a lot of fodders between Mathilde and gibblies. I certainly don't want Mathilde to receive death by mook ending, 4 extra life is nice but does not discount 10,000 life we can get.
 
The benefits of having a lot of fodders is having a lot of fodders between Mathilde and gibblies. I certainly don't want Mathilde to receive death by mook ending, 4 extra life is nice but does not discount 10,000 life we can get.
Cause all those extra lives worked out REAL Well for Abelheim. I'm sure the Clan Eishin Assassins or Jezlock Teams will have trouble with the fodder.

@BoneyM Since there's going to be ALOT of Dwarven talking going for the forseeable future, could you maybe add somekind of AN or Spoiler listing translations of Dwarven into English, because alot of people don't own dwarven dictionaries so we don't have any idea what's being said.
 
@BoneyM, it may be a bit premature asking it this turn when we have no time for any type research - but I would like to ask whether it's viable.

I was thinking about Mathilde and the ways to get better at magic. Outright active training is not viable, as it is too risky. But would it be possible for her to train her Witchsight? Please note, that I do not mean training/upgrading 'Windreader' - that trait signifies understanding of magic. I am thinking about training raw perception.

Below relevant quote from Realms of Sorcery - and yes, I know that we cannot base anything on that, but it remains best source of information about the world and magic in general.
Any person possessing witchsight sees the world as if through two types of vision superimposed upon each other. With his normal mundane sight, the Aethyrically sensitive person sees like any other Human does. With his witchsight, the person actually sees the Winds of Magic to some degree, either as swirling clouds and rivers of churning coloured energy, or as manifestations of their own thoughts, memories, emotions, expectations, beliefs, and fears and those of the people around them. The common expression of witchsight in untrained magic users is as strange shapes and flickering lights just at the corner of their vision. Depending upon how strong one's witchsight is, one may be able to see the movements of magic and magically charged items and beings, even in the dark or if one's eyes are shut, blinded, or missing.

Some people with the most developed witchsight are able to see the entire world even without their eyes, perceiving with perfect clarity the souls, thoughts, and intentions of all living beings around them, seeing how magic swirls around and through them and all other things in the world.
Please note underlined part.

Mathilde seems to be squarely placed on first part of the description, with average level of witchsight. Would it be possible to train it to up to level described in underlined part? Is it a thing in quest at all? Also, if she succeeded, would it impact her life in negative way? (since I can imagine being rather distracting)



My second question is Arcane Mark - the "Flicker" trait. Mathilde is now magister, and have rather comprehensive knowledge of magic. How much does she knows about it? Does she knows how it works? What exactly it is caused by? The mechanism?

Is it outpouring of Ulgu rolling out from her? Or does she affect other winds, and that causes effect? Is it caused by her body, or unconscious mind? Would it be possible to suppress? Or better yet, be possible to channel in different way? And the basic question: can she perceive it at all? Or is it hidden 'in the background'?

By common sense, it should be possible to suppress it with effort of will - at least as long as she is concentrating. Mathilde is now rather skilled mage, used to manipulating large quantities of Ulgu with precision. She should be able to control/suppress Ulgu emitted by her own body. Or maybe she can work with other direction - to boost effect as strongly as possible. That would make for a useful by itself.

Obviously, best case is control. There is quite a bit of strength hidden into effect - forcing all nearby fires to burn low and flicker is not actually easy and requires quite a bit of mystical force. If she can align that strength into supporting magic she casts, it could be beneficial. And in fact, list of Arcane Marks does have effect that corresponds to it.

@BoneyM - is it viable at direction of research?
 
Cause all those extra lives worked out REAL Well for Abelheim. I'm sure the Clan Eishin Assassins or Jezlock Teams will have trouble with the fodder.

@BoneyM Since there's going to be ALOT of Dwarven talking going for the forseeable future, could you maybe add somekind of AN or Spoiler listing translations of Dwarven into English, because alot of people don't own dwarven dictionaries so we don't have any idea what's being said.
There's this... Khazalid

Mathilde seems to be squarely placed on first part of the description, with average level of witchsight. Would it be possible to train it to up to level described in underlined part? Is it a thing in quest at all? Also, if she succeeded, would it impact her life in negative way? (since I can imagine being rather distracting)



My second question is Arcane Mark - the "Flicker" trait. Mathilde is now magister, and have rather comprehensive knowledge of magic. How much does she knows about it? Does she knows how it works? What exactly it is caused by? The mechanism?

Is it outpouring of Ulgu rolling out from her? Or does she affect other winds, and that causes effect? Is it caused by her body, or unconscious mind? Would it be possible to suppress? Or better yet, be possible to channel in different way? And the basic question: can she perceive it at all? Or is it hidden 'in the background'?
It sounds as if better Witchsight might compensate for darkness, allowing us to operate underground without light. Perhaps.

Wizards don't generate the winds- they draw them in, shape and channel them. More likely Mathilde causes eddies and disturbances by her very presence, and Ulgu likes/is shadows, so flames flicker.
 
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Cause all those extra lives worked out REAL Well for Abelheim. I'm sure the Clan Eishin Assassins or Jezlock Teams will have trouble with the fodder.

Those life did work for Abelhelm for the entire purge campaign, it only didn't work when the commander charged for morale benefit instead of staying with guards behind friendly line. I'm sure four wizards staying as a group will be quiet safe from assassins, but history of miscast thus far is more troubling.
 
And we have no idea what kind of Journeymen BoneyM just threw at us.

I have to admit that what I said was mostly tongue in cheek.

You misunderstand me. Speaking for one or the other means that we officially take control and responsibility for those forces. But think of what will happen to the forces we don't speak for.

If we go with the Wizards then they will have to obey us or be at odds with the King commanding this whole campaign. We will override their ideas if we don't like them and our suggestions will be more like commands, for good or ill. But we're also a newly minted Magister with only limited knowledge of their arts. Whenever we aren't micromanaging the journeymen or advising the council we'll be doing whatever we deem right with our varied skills.
The army from Stirland will get some random rolled up dude leading them and will be beholden to one or more the War Council's military commanders.

If we take command of the Stirland contingent we have to deal with that near constantly. But we also get to apply our considerable Martial to most battles in this campaign on a larger scale than we'd get just charging into combat. The forces also include a large number of woodsmen.
The journeymen will be directly under the King, who, due to lack of time, will probably routinely assign them to one or more commanders of his war council and, due to lack of experience and knowledge, will ask the most qualified of his advisors as to how to do that. Guess which one that would be. Often the journeymen would, according to the dwarves, will be free to apply their arts however they think best as long as they don't mess things up with their almost chaotic ways. But according to College customs we are still their senior and deserving of respect, if not obedience. In fact them doing us favor means doing a favor to a Grey College Magister, something that they expect could matter even after going back home.

So my argument is that all we lose by going the military commander route is free time and hard control over three journeymen, and responsibility for their mishaps. They will still be nearly as useful in my opinion. But if we don't go for that we risk 10,000 ranged troops getting underutilized and their needs and worries neglected. three important individuals can always curry favor with us. 10,000 will have a much harder time at it, and we a harder time convincing whoever is in charge of them in the war council to see things our way, being merely the magic councilor and all.
There is no reason to assume that the stirlanders would find their "needs and worries neglected" and if they did then people higher up the chain of command could step in, as everyone here has some experience dealing with conventional troops.

Mages, by contrast, are in great danger of being sidelined. This is a force composed predominately of traditionalist humans, devoted sigmarites and Ulricans, and Dwarves. A significant part of why I want control of the wizards is so that it doesn't get handed to any of these people instead.

And finally, our free time is very much a valuable resource. A Mathilde commanding an army is a Mathidle who can't be off scouting, sabotaging and assassinating.
 
There is no reason to assume that the stirlanders would find their "needs and worries neglected" and if they did then people higher up the chain of command could step in, as everyone here has some experience dealing with conventional troops.

Mages, by contrast, are in great danger of being sidelined. This is a force composed predominately of traditionalist humans, devoted sigmarites and Ulricans, and Dwarves. A significant part of why I want control of the wizards is so that it doesn't get handed to any of these people instead.

And finally, our free time is very much a valuable resource. A Mathilde commanding an army is a Mathidle who can't be off scouting, sabotaging and assassinating.
Not to mention Mathilde doing research, because there is no way in the warp that I will let us ignore the Snake Juice.
 
On an unrelated note, the name Dwarfs give mages really cracks me up. Zhufokri, or "Torrent/Waterfall Craftsmen". It encapsulates both the bewilderment of "why would you ever do that?" and the grudging respect of accomplishing such a ridiculous achievement.
Speaking of, what is our title? It kind of seems like he called us "Chaos Moon Craftsman."
 
And finally, our free time is very much a valuable resource. A Mathilde commanding an army is a Mathidle who can't be off scouting, sabotaging and assassinating.
Why would you ever have your primary dispeller and (though they don't know it) healer off on recon missions?

That's no way to run a war.
 
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