Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
Mathilde's Miniature Me.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Shovern
Extravagant Shitposter
Half a Mathilde? Does the thread really think the best we could do when it comes to creating children is Half a Mathilde? That sounds like leaving a job half finished to me, and that's not good enough.
To start lets look at a baseline child:
Mathilde x Random person pulled off the streets:
With our Dwarf rep of 104 and their presumed rep of 0, any child born of this arrangement should inherit on average, 52 Dwarf rep, or the aforementioned "Half a Mathilde."
But we're not looking to romance a random person. Our top two Waifu candidates, Johann and Panorama, are both in possession of Royal boons which indicates they both undoubtedly have earned Dwarf favor of their own which they can contribute to the theoretical child.
But given the lack of specific Dwarf favour info to be found in eithers bio's, We'll have to ballpark the number. Starting with Johann for ease of reproduction; I feel it is safe to assume that between his assistance with the artillery, diligent service as a wizard under the Loremaster of Karak Eight Peaks, various raids against the hated Thagorakki menace, and his crowing (and public) achievement of wading through boiling dirt to kill grobi with his bare hands. That he should be in possession of around 25 Dwarf rep. And if he's not, then I theorize that demonstrating the fact that he is in fact made of gold, should be enough to tip him over.
So Mathilde x Johann:
Our rep of 104 and his rep of 25 would average 64.5, six-tenths of a Mathilde. Better, but not good enough.
I remember a while back, perhaps around 60 Dwarf rep, that BoneyM stated that one of the few things above us when it came to Dwarf rep, was Tobaro(Citation Needed). That would imply that Tobaro has more than 60 Dwarf rep. They still might have more than we do, but for sake of kepping hope down, I use a rough guess of 80 rep, unless someone can provide a better number.
My proposal is simple. While we cannot simply steal their Dwarf rep, I imagine their citizens inherit a portion of it for themselves, so we simply need to insure that our theoretical child would be born as a citizen of Tobaro.
Now when it comes to calculating how much of that Dwarf rep is inheirited, I have a simple solution.
They say that it is Nature vs Nurture that determines how many reputation points someone ends up with. And since they also say it takes a village to raise a child(which is nurturing), I'd say it's fair to remove the nature half of points from the inheritable Tobaro points. (Note: Mathilde and Johann as parants both provide Nature: genetics, and Nurture
arenting, and thus provided full points.) Giving us 40 points. Traditional Dwarven thoughts would, as far as I can tell, imply that the order of importance of organizations in ones life should go Clan->Guild->Karak. Which implies that Tabaro would be a Tertiary influence, or a thirdly influence if you would leaving are new formula as follows:
(Mathilde + Johann)/2 + Tobaro/6 = 77.83, just over three fourths of Mathilde.
Much better than half a Mathilde if you ask me.
I could make the argument that we should attempt to form a Wizard guild of Karak Eight Peaks, that the child would be immediately inducted into for more Dwarf rep. That would add 7.5 Dwarf rep ( ( (Panorama(15) + 3ducklings(5) ) /Nurture(2) ) /Guilds Secondary(2) =7.5). But it would be reliant on the child being magical, which while likely, is no guarantee. And while I suppose we could have children until one was magical, AP hell is already bad enough without an army of children to manage.
...Is this what thread madness feels like?
To start lets look at a baseline child:
Mathilde x Random person pulled off the streets:
With our Dwarf rep of 104 and their presumed rep of 0, any child born of this arrangement should inherit on average, 52 Dwarf rep, or the aforementioned "Half a Mathilde."
But we're not looking to romance a random person. Our top two Waifu candidates, Johann and Panorama, are both in possession of Royal boons which indicates they both undoubtedly have earned Dwarf favor of their own which they can contribute to the theoretical child.
But given the lack of specific Dwarf favour info to be found in eithers bio's, We'll have to ballpark the number. Starting with Johann for ease of reproduction; I feel it is safe to assume that between his assistance with the artillery, diligent service as a wizard under the Loremaster of Karak Eight Peaks, various raids against the hated Thagorakki menace, and his crowing (and public) achievement of wading through boiling dirt to kill grobi with his bare hands. That he should be in possession of around 25 Dwarf rep. And if he's not, then I theorize that demonstrating the fact that he is in fact made of gold, should be enough to tip him over.
So Mathilde x Johann:
Our rep of 104 and his rep of 25 would average 64.5, six-tenths of a Mathilde. Better, but not good enough.
I remember a while back, perhaps around 60 Dwarf rep, that BoneyM stated that one of the few things above us when it came to Dwarf rep, was Tobaro(Citation Needed). That would imply that Tobaro has more than 60 Dwarf rep. They still might have more than we do, but for sake of kepping hope down, I use a rough guess of 80 rep, unless someone can provide a better number.
My proposal is simple. While we cannot simply steal their Dwarf rep, I imagine their citizens inherit a portion of it for themselves, so we simply need to insure that our theoretical child would be born as a citizen of Tobaro.
Now when it comes to calculating how much of that Dwarf rep is inheirited, I have a simple solution.
They say that it is Nature vs Nurture that determines how many reputation points someone ends up with. And since they also say it takes a village to raise a child(which is nurturing), I'd say it's fair to remove the nature half of points from the inheritable Tobaro points. (Note: Mathilde and Johann as parants both provide Nature: genetics, and Nurture
arenting, and thus provided full points.) Giving us 40 points. Traditional Dwarven thoughts would, as far as I can tell, imply that the order of importance of organizations in ones life should go Clan->Guild->Karak. Which implies that Tabaro would be a Tertiary influence, or a thirdly influence if you would leaving are new formula as follows:(Mathilde + Johann)/2 + Tobaro/6 = 77.83, just over three fourths of Mathilde.
Much better than half a Mathilde if you ask me.
I could make the argument that we should attempt to form a Wizard guild of Karak Eight Peaks, that the child would be immediately inducted into for more Dwarf rep. That would add 7.5 Dwarf rep ( ( (Panorama(15) + 3ducklings(5) ) /Nurture(2) ) /Guilds Secondary(2) =7.5). But it would be reliant on the child being magical, which while likely, is no guarantee. And while I suppose we could have children until one was magical, AP hell is already bad enough without an army of children to manage.
...Is this what thread madness feels like?
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
No, the projected bodycount of your plan is zero, so I think you're still good.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
Look into the Quest and the Quest will look back.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
You say that like dead bodies is a bad thing. If I could kindly point your attention to the massive Caldera still full with nearly a million or so orc corpse—whether turned to ash or buried under molten soil doesn't really matter—and the multiple mountains around it where nearly a dozen separate factions were removed shortly beforehand...
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
If dwarves get involved remind them that the average lifespan and the average attention span of humans is much shorter biologically, but that the current education system is completely inadequate even if one keeps that in mind.
Aren't Halflings even more immune than Dwarves?
This is a monarchy. And we are the only human with regular access to the King's ear. And the other human of rank is both terrified of us and in the pocket of a corporation of which we are the majority shareholder. Ask Belegar nicely and lean on Francesco to hire someone. If he can't find a good organizer for the project, lean on the EIC. Seriously, it isn't that complicated. 1-3 actions to uplift Karag Nar and the Valleys by a fair amount.
Together with the Witch Hunter thing we even help BoneyM flesh out Francesco's council, which is a major plus in my books.
But before we go forward with something that may not actually be needed: @BoneyM to the best of Mathilde's knowledge, how would Karag Nar Human and Valley Halfling education probably look if left to their own devices? Is it as bad as we imagine?
And I know that even Mathilde's speculation might not give an accurate picture because the oldest Karag Nar born human child should currently be around four years old and the women who migrated there probably didn't bring many children with them. But maybe latter merchants did.
No we don't. We simply need to make basic education free. Karag Nar doesn't have peasants. It has soldiers and tradesmen. And the Halflings are proud farmers from a society where farming isn't looked down upon.
What about basic numbers, history, religion, and laws? Also, how does a Dwarven childhood look beyond that? When does a Dwarf child start to speak full sentences and play without constant parental supervision and what do they do with their time between that age and their apprenticeship?
Currently I can only imagine that their life is either very carefree (other than the pressures to conform and the many family secrets), that basic mining, smelting, metalworking, fighting, literacy, and family traditions are far more extensive than what I imagine, or that the Dwarven child's brain works very slowly, even when compared to an adult Dwarf.
How hard would just establishing a free and non-mandatory primary school be? I'd ballpark ot at 4 actions if Belegar is willing to pay for it but Francesco can't be bothered to sacrifice valuable time for it. Am I far off?
Also, whose area of responsibility would it be on a Dwarven royal council if something seems to be going wrong with the basic education of clanless Dwarves?
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Oh don't remind me. I really hoped we had a use for those recently, but alas it was not to be.
I had such high hopes for you, Birdmuncha. I really hoped you'd give us a proper fight. But in the end, you couldn't even push us past 60% of our full power before getting scared and running off...
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
What exactly are you considering as our full power, if I may ask? Because honestly all Mathilde really did was press a big red button with her mind, make a few clever suggestions, and then go stand vaguely in his path for a bit. We put more effort into utterly destroying the other factions inside K8Ps before the stupid orc even showed up. That hardly merits sixty percent.
Too soon to say. Maybe they'll take a page from the Dwarves, or maybe it will follow the norm of the Empire.
Laws are part of schooling. Numbers are usually taught as part of their vocational training, if they're relevant to it. History and religion are taught by elders. Dwarven developmental milestones are about the same as humans, they just have a much higher bar for when a Dwarf is considered mature and educated enough to be considered an adult. A studious Dwarf can, upon reaching adulthood, fight, mine, and craft metal at least as well as average human professionals, on top of learning their clan's specialty and their chosen vocation (if they differ).
Mathilde has no idea. Try it and find out.
Normally the Steward.
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Well, as the We said, Mathilde is the most echo. It just makes sense to make a Me if you can't make a We. And it is said that people live on through their children.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
The Tower is our strongest single attack, which following the rules of Shounen* means it makes up the majority of our power, hence the 60%.
*The experts of powerlevels
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Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
Fair enough, I suppose, though I would personally think that taking a chunk out of a God's hide would be our strongest attack. Or does it have to be replicable?
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Yes, an attack has to be replicable to be a part of your powerset. Besides, an attack that slightly wounds deities is less useful than one that obliterates all physical foes within range, and I would argue less powerful.
Also, that wasn't us taking a chunk out of a God's hide, that was Ranald proving useful for once. Or Gork being a dumdum and giving his Divine Power to an untrustworthy third party if you ignore the part Ranald didn't personally take a part in.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
Eh, the way I saw it we totally used Ranald as our piggy bank since Mathilde sure as hell wasn't going to keep ahold of that much divine juice, but she had to steal it first and that was all her, if admittedly an accident at first by enacting the counter-ritual.
But fair enough. It's rather difficult to compare power between two completely different fields—in this case the spiritual and physical—though I could theoretically argue that mugging Mork (not Gork, that's the other one) most likely had a long term effect on the entire orcish race compared to a short term effect on a comparatively tiny sub-section, but that's not really necessary. I need to be getting to sleep anyways.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
I guess my question then is what the norm of an Imperial trade city is. Or at least how stuff like this is handled in, say, Altdorf.
How much time do they spend on the non-physical general education stuff. I.e. reading, writing, and learning laws? Just enough for fluency and rote memorization like the first couple of years of a modern human primary school? Or again to the levels of an Imperial human university student or fiction author?
Can we at least get an order of magnitude ballpark, assuming average and boring successes? Like, somewhere between 1 and 10 or somewhere between 10 and 100?
I'm pretty sure it's the former, but your uphill struggle comment made me think that I might have completely misunderstood certain things.
In my mind all we have to do, action wise, is do preliminary fact searching on what is needed, find and hire an administrator, give the administrator a way to hire staff and buy equipment, and effectively spread the word.
Am I completely sleeping on some obvious obstacles?
Hmm. So maybe what we should actually do as the first step is "talk to Francesco about his primary education plans" in the next social turn.
if you can afford it: you get a tutor.
if you can't: you go to a trade school/convent/ knight order.
if you cant afford that: your family teaches you your numbers and letters.
if your family cant: tough luck.
Pretty much what Jyn Ryvia said. The rich get tutors, everyone else gets whatever their parents teach them, and whatever vocational training their chosen career might provide.
Reading and writing definitely aren't to university standards. If their Clan's speciality and their chosen vocation don't need them, then about equivalent to a primary school education. Laws, on the other hand, they are taught very thoroughly.
"Why should my child spend years learning Dwarf letters and the like when everyone else their age is working or apprenticing? I'd be sabotaging their chances in life if I allowed it."
You're talking about dragging a late-Medieval, early-Renaissance people into the late Victorian era. There's going to be a lot of pushback, especially if it's going to be paid for by Karag Nar funds that would otherwise be going towards more familiar public services. It's something you can certainly try to do, but it's something that you'd have to convince the thread is a suitable use of their votes, Mathilde's AP, and my writing time. There's only so many hours in the day, and time Mathilde spends on seeing to the education of a relative handful of children in this small corner of the world is time she's not spending elsewhere.
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I'd note the dwarf education quality has little to do with dwarf education methods, but rather dwarf societal models.
The Empire mainly practices Nuclear Fission families, small core families that blast off to other parts when they hit critical mass for resources. Their resources are generated and shared between very small clusters. If your cousin thrice removed can't afford to raise their two dozen children properly you shrug and go on.
The Karaz Ankor mainly practices strong Clan families, everyone is born into a clan which is itself a micronation. The Clan considers the performance of all its members as crucial to its reputation, a dwarf of a clan not measuring up to minimum standards shames the entire clan. Thus, the entire clan essentially invests the free time of all their adult members raising the skill standards of their youths, with the corollary that this imposes pretty hefty intergenerational pressures on the young.
If you want to fix education I'd suggest Mathilde take a leaf from her own upbringing - the Grey Order takes in and raises a great many children with magical potential, and given the limited numbers of teachers, some degree of group learning has to happen before they reach the point where its useful to set them up with apprenticeships, and they get values hammered in deep long and hard.
The problem here is that basically nobody else does that. Tradesmen will start teaching their children their trade as soon as they can talk, while the kids will start helping out in practical ways in their early teens, and thats mutually exclusive with this arrangement. Revolutionizing education would require a pretty major social and economic shift.
As it is, I suspect the Undumgi are likely to set themselves up in a Clan-like manner, as a large body of comrades in arms from many disparate backgrounds forged into a single whole, with reason to treat the children of their fellows as their own, particularly given the risks of military service.
The Empire mainly practices Nuclear Fission families, small core families that blast off to other parts when they hit critical mass for resources. Their resources are generated and shared between very small clusters. If your cousin thrice removed can't afford to raise their two dozen children properly you shrug and go on.
The Karaz Ankor mainly practices strong Clan families, everyone is born into a clan which is itself a micronation. The Clan considers the performance of all its members as crucial to its reputation, a dwarf of a clan not measuring up to minimum standards shames the entire clan. Thus, the entire clan essentially invests the free time of all their adult members raising the skill standards of their youths, with the corollary that this imposes pretty hefty intergenerational pressures on the young.
If you want to fix education I'd suggest Mathilde take a leaf from her own upbringing - the Grey Order takes in and raises a great many children with magical potential, and given the limited numbers of teachers, some degree of group learning has to happen before they reach the point where its useful to set them up with apprenticeships, and they get values hammered in deep long and hard.
The problem here is that basically nobody else does that. Tradesmen will start teaching their children their trade as soon as they can talk, while the kids will start helping out in practical ways in their early teens, and thats mutually exclusive with this arrangement. Revolutionizing education would require a pretty major social and economic shift.
As it is, I suspect the Undumgi are likely to set themselves up in a Clan-like manner, as a large body of comrades in arms from many disparate backgrounds forged into a single whole, with reason to treat the children of their fellows as their own, particularly given the risks of military service.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
TLDR potentially something viable a fair bit from now.
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
Assuming that a functional prototype of a steam tractor is completed tomorrow, already having gone through decades of refinement to its design, it'll be at least two centuries of stress tests and other evaluations at the workshop before the patent is notarised, followed by another three of field testing at minimum.
In summary, probably not very likely. Dawi quality control is very thorough.
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- Location
- Aotearoa
On the other hand,