Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
And some people want to read about Mathilde's cracking the Skaven language and ushering a new age of espionage. And the OOC frustrations are misleading because some of then are just a vocal minority that is outspoken on their pet projects.

Seeing if someone is in the minority or not is why we have votes. Personally I do not think a plan with no advancement of secondary projects like the AV or the temple can win
 
The underliend sums up the issue with the approach. Personally I'm not very interested in the skulls, but if I were the fact that 'they will keep for a few hundred years' would be wholly irrelevant because seeing it done on the hypothetical turn 1025 is the same thing as saying 'they should not be done ever'. IMO there has to be some kind of balance between the things people would like to see to explore the world and the character and pure utilitarianism because this is an interactive story as much as a game.
This feels like nitpicking. I don't think anyone is that interested in vampire skulls. His point was that most of that backlog no one cares about.
 
A three plan course get em while they're hot! :D

[X] Plan Queekish and Gem Sneks
-[X] MAX: Study an artefact: The book on Chaos Dwarf anatomy.
-[X] JOHANN: Join him on raids with the aim of finding written correspondence and a gas mask in Clan Skryre.
-[X] DUCK: Johann's investigation into the ratling gun has hit a wall. See if you can help.
-[X] Found an internal investigation division, to investigate possible misconduct.
-[X] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for Qrech to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
-[X] Study an artifact: the unknown black gem.
-[X] Gain enough control of your attraction to smoke and gases to have it collect away from your face. (NEW)
-[X] Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae. COIN.
-[X] Have additional rooms excavated underneath your Penthouse: -100gc for 4 rooms.
-[X] The Gambler: Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae.
-[X] Serenity: The ability of Alkharad to assume a projected form of mist. (ALMOST FADED)

[X] Plan Queekish and Rapport Sneks
-[X] MAX: Study an artefact: The book on Chaos Dwarf anatomy.
-[X] JOHANN: Join him on raids with the aim of finding written correspondence and a gas mask in Clan Skryre.
-[X] DUCK: Johann's investigation into the ratling gun has hit a wall. See if you can help.
-[X] Found an internal investigation division, to investigate possible misconduct.
-[X] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for Qrech to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
-[X] Study an artifact: the unknown black gem.
-[X] Seek to build a stronger rapport with Qrech, and provide enough sources of mental stimulation that you can turn your attention elsewhere. (NEW-ish)
-[X] Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae. COIN.
-[X] Have additional rooms excavated underneath your Penthouse: -100gc for 4 rooms.
-[X] The Gambler: Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae.
-[X] Serenity: The ability of Alkharad to assume a projected form of mist. (ALMOST FADED)

[X] Plan Sneks with Temple
-[X] MAX: Study an artefact: The book on Chaos Dwarf anatomy.
-[X] JOHANN: Join him on raids with the aim of finding written correspondence and a gas mask in Clan Skryre.
-[X] DUCK: Johann's investigation into the ratling gun has hit a wall. See if you can help.
-[X] Found an internal investigation division, to investigate possible misconduct.
-[X] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for Qrech to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
-[X] Study an artifact: the unknown black gem.
-[X] You have set up a Shrine to Ranald. Expand it into a Temple to the Gambler - a gambling hall with clean cards, guaranteed unloaded dice, fresh sawdust in the fighting ring, and a lottery every Festag. Costs 100gc.
-[X] Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae. COIN.
-[X] Have additional rooms excavated underneath your Penthouse: -100gc for 4 rooms.
-[X] The Gambler: Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae.
-[X] Serenity: The ability of Alkharad to assume a projected form of mist. (ALMOST FADED)

All of these are focused around trying to juggle our job and other stuff we also want to see, and have some of our hopes pinned on.
 
The underliend sums up the issue with the approach. Personally I'm not very interested in the skulls, but if I were the fact that 'they will keep for a few hundred years' would be wholly irrelevant because seeing it done on the hypothetical turn 1025 is the same thing as saying 'they should not be done ever'. IMO there has to be some kind of balance between the things people would like to see to explore the world and the character and pure utilitarianism because this is an interactive story as much as a game.

The 'utilitarianism' is part of the story. Queekish is not only part of Mathilde's assignment, but also presents a big paradigm change to the Old World and possibly beyond.

Everything is part of Mathilde's story, the only bit that's outside it is the dice rolls. Trying to split Mathilde's job to 'utilitarianism' is false.
 
[X] Plan Skryre Papers And Basic Necessities
-[X] MAX: Study an artefact: Skaven book on the Anatomy of Chaos Dwarves, partially translated.
-[X] JOHANN: Join him on raids with the aim of finding written correspondence and gas masks(Skryre).
-[X] DUCK: Gretel's motivated by wealth. Take her on a raid, looking for wealth and Queekish (Skryre).
-[X] Start building a paramilitary river navy to ensure the coming trade explosion doesn't lead to a similar explosion in riverine banditry. (NEW)
-[X] Seek to build a stronger rapport with Qrech, and provide enough sources of mental stimulation that you can turn your attention elsewhere. (NEW-ish)
--[X] Convince Qrech that the Underempire has no way of knowing he's even alive, and that he should prioritize the comfort with which he will live the rest of his life.
-[X] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for Qrech to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency. (will require acquiring said documents somehow)
--[X] Write in: Convince Qrech that with Moulder gone from Eight Peaks, and their center of power far from the Empire, you no longer have any conflicts in interest with his clan and that it is in Moulder's best interests that the other Skaven of Eight Peaks suffer a similar fate.
-[X] Gain enough control of your attraction to smoke and gases to have it collect away from your face. (NEW)
-[X] Wolf is fully grown and a Very Good Boy. Train him. (increases his intelligence, he may learn to speak Praestantia)
-[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: The ability of Alkharad to assume a projected form of mist.
-[X] PENTHOUSE: Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent forcible entry.
-[X] The Deceiver: Support Qrech gambits

Explanations already made previous, but for completeness:
-Translation needs documents or it auto fails.
--Two raids give enough redundancy that failure, or partial success due to insufficient materials is a negligible probability.
--Yes, I'm 'pre-spending' one extra AP on this, but that saves us 2 AP next turn if we wind up needing to do it again, as that would require another raid AND translation action.
--Targeting Skryre makes sense because they have the technical lexicon we need to finish the other side of tactically relevant Queekish. We do not need to 'balance' the raids, looting raids are unlikely to do fatal damage to Skryre, not when Mors has most of their forces facing the orcs.
--Sending Johann and Gretel makes sense because as the stealthiest units other than Mathilde, we're more likely to get significant documents, or if we get lucky enough, Skyre books and blueprints.
--Sending Hubert and Adela does not, Hubert is impatient and Adela's preferred weaponry destroys documents, especially in the presence of flammables like a Skryre lab may be.

-Qrech gambits are chosen with an eye to not making any commitments we don't intend to follow through within a year. I'm not promising freedom until we know we don't have more stuff to squeeze out of him, in which case his future complaince is optional.

-EIC action wise banditry is easier to prevent than to stop. We want would-be river pirates to drop dead on their first time, discouraging them after they already set up hideouts along the route would be much harder.

-While the gas mask is a better long term solution, we're at least several turns away from having a functional mask replica on our side even if we looted one. Controlling the Arcane Mark is a significant survival element. Skryre might use poison gas the most but its hardly exclusive to them.

-Wolf and the Qrech buttering up are to set us up in position to do Spoken Queekish next turn.

-Of the Fading papers, the Waagh paper is easier to refresh, we have a whole mountain full of greenskins left. So it goes second.
 
I don't see the need to build a groundwork for learning spoken queekish because I don't see the need to spend our time on understanding spoken Queekish. Once we have written queekish others in the grey college can pry the spoken version from other skaven prisoners. Written queekish deals with the long term plans and instructions that would be a massive boon on a strategic level. Spoken queekish is going to be instructions between guards and any immediate actions, helpful on a tactical level.

I think you forgot two important fact.

1. we are surrounded by skaven.
2. Mathilde greatest contributions to the war effort involve contatly inflitrating behind enemy lines.

Saying we have no need for Spoken queekish while admiting it is mostly usefull on a tactical level, when we are constantly engaging with Skaven on a tactical level and likely to continue doing so for many years to come fells like a contradiction in terms to me.

The whip and the vials both seem likely to be not to interesting even when we do get around to them. The firearms I expect at most modest benefits compared to what our factory is currently churning out. Throwing star might have some nifty use with its permanent conjuring ability maybe? Otherwise probably not that significant. Skulls can keep a few hundred years. So of those items the book is being worked on and the only other two that seem all that interesting are the gem and coin.
It fell way worse when you realie every action there is competing with every other action, you are basicaly looking at a small sample of our backlock in isolation.

Raid actions aren't just for the documents and they have another purpose. Alongside backlog, we also get stuff that we want. We get a gas-mask from Skyre that we really, really want. We get money and resources. We get information on our enemies. Mors has no idea what Eshin is up to. Skyre tells us what they are up to and gives us another piece of the puzzle for Eshin's plan. They are also right below the dragon, which is something we really want to know about.

I mean in principle I totaly agree with you, wich is why I have the action on lotting the Skryre clan in the hope of gas masks, but in practice the last loot votes were filled with the sentiment that we don't want money since we have enought already and vow of poverty, and we don't want shinies since it will just increase backlog, I don't agree with either of that but enought of the thread do that I don't se a second raiding action being a good use of time.
 
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This feels like nitpicking. I don't think anyone is that interested in vampire skulls. His point was that most of that backlog no one cares about.

That is a very nebulous statement that cannot be verified without doing statistical analyses. What is most of the backlog and what is most of the thread and how exactly do they interact when voting plan format where people may prioritize the plans with certain actions over preferences in others?

I used the 'they will keep for hundreds of years' to show how the utilitarian argument can be used like a seldgehammer to delay and delay when what it actually does is crowd out certain actions entirely
 
[X] Plan: Let's Squeek v2
-[X][MAX] Study an artefact: Skaven book on the Anatomy of Chaos Dwarves, partially translated.
-[X][JOHANN] Join him on raids with the aim of finding written correspondence (Skryre).
-[X][DUCK] Hubert wants glory. Take him on a sortie, with the side-goal of finding written correspondence (Mors).
-[X][EIC] Start building a paramilitary river navy to ensure the coming trade explosion doesn't lead to a similar explosion in riverine banditry.
-[X] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for Qrech to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
-[X] Use King Belegar's pull to bring in some linguistics experts from the Empire's universities, though after proper vetting and swearing them to silence.
-[X][GAMBIT] Convince Qrech that the Underempire has no way of knowing he's even alive, and that he should prioritize the comfort with which he will live the rest of his life.
-[X] Wolf is fully grown and a Very Good Boy. Train him. (increases his intelligence, he may learn to speak Praestantia)
-[X] Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae.
-[X][PENTHOUSE] Have additional rooms excavated underneath your Penthouse: -100gc for 4 rooms.
-[X][Serenity] The ability of Alkharad to assume a projected form of mist. (ALMOST FADED)
-[X][COIN] Deceiver: Help with Qrech Gambit

[X] Plan Slow and Steady with more papers
-[X] MAX: Study an artefact: The book on Chaos Dwarf anatomy.
-[X] JOHANN: Join him on raids with the aim of finding written correspondence (Choose: Clan Skryre).
-[X] DUCK: Adela's started her education in Dwarven engineering. Escort her to do field-testing with some of Gotri's prototypes, and grab what Queekish you can while doing so. Clan Skryre.
-[X] Found an internal investigation division, to investigate possible misconduct.
-[X] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for Qrech to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
-[X] The Colleges want you to do a series of lectures on your paper, Waaagh and Peace. Travel to Altdorf and do so.
-[*] Hire a Priest of Esmerelda to teach the We.
-[X] You have set up a Shrine to Ranald. Expand it into a Temple to the Gambler - a gambling hall with clean cards, guaranteed unloaded dice, fresh sawdust in the fighting ring, and a lottery every Festag. Costs 100gc.
-[X] Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae. COIN.
-[X] Have additional rooms excavated underneath your Penthouse: -100gc for 4 rooms.
-[X] The Gambler: Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae.
-[X] Serenity: The ability of Alkharad to assume a projected form of mist. (ALMOST FADED)

[] Plan Skryre Papers And Basic Necessities
[] Plan Slow and Steady
 
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How will they do that? The skaven still has to be willing. Look at how unwilling Qrech has been and we've been laying down the groundwork for an year and that's with actual divine intervention.
You get enough skaven prisoners, apply enough pressure, and ask them what sound does this symbol make and one of them will break or you get enough of the same answers to make a conclusion. The reason they couldn't do it before is because they had no knowledge of what the symbol met. Why they didn't do this before to figure out what the symbols mean I don't know, likely to have something with the conspiracy of silence. With a functional lexicon they could even do field interrogations.

My feeling on the subject is that a lot spoken queekish revolves around set of senses that makes it hard for humans to follow making it only useful for a subset of wizards who have familiars that can translate those senses. It just doesn't make sense for me to spend a ton of AP on something only a small subset will ever be able to really use. And an even smaller subset of wizards will even in position to use with the conspiracy of silence and all. If the grey order thinks spoken queekish is useful enough to pursue they can do that. I don't think it is though.
 
The underliend sums up the issue with the approach.

That was a joke about vampires always being fine waiting to come back, I do think it would be a big waste of time to look at them anytime soon though. Mathilde would need to gain some pretty gamechanging abilities to make much use out of researching them I feel. Anything she did right now would be treading old ground.

IMO there has to be some kind of balance between the things people would like to see to explore the world and the character and pure utilitarianism because this is an interactive story as much as a game.

But the votes that win are the story people want told? Like I'm not against eventually looking into the skulls as an example is it seems possible we have a way to find some novel information but if it turns out the thread never votes to do so why is that an issue? It just means people found other things more interesting.
 
[X] Plan Delayed Gratification
-[X][MAX] Study an artefact: Skaven book on the Anatomy of Chaos Dwarves, partially translated.
-[X][JOHANN] Join him on raids with the aim of finding written correspondence (Skryre).
-[X][DUCK] Johann's investigation into the ratling gun has hit a wall. See if you can help.
-[X][EIC] Put policies in place that local news should be collected and sent to you (rumour mill).
-[X] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for Qrech to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
-[X][GAMBIT] Convince Qrech that the Underempire has no way of knowing he's even alive, and that he should prioritize the comfort with which he will live the rest of his life.
-[X] You have set up a Shrine to Ranald. Expand it into a Temple to the Gambler - a gambling hall with clean cards, guaranteed unloaded dice, fresh sawdust in the fighting ring, and a lottery every Festag. Costs 100gc.
-[X] Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae.
-[X] Wolf is fully grown and a Very Good Boy. Train him. (increases his intelligence, he may learn to speak Praestantia)
-[X][PENTHOUSE] Have additional rooms excavated underneath your Penthouse: -100gc for 4 rooms.
-[X][Serenity] The ability of Alkharad to assume a projected form of mist. (ALMOST FADED)
-[X][COIN] Deceiver: Help with Qrech Gambit

Here is my plan, hopefuly we will get a lot of long waited things done this time.
 
[X] Plan Radio Wolf
-[X] MAX: Study an artefact: Skaven book on the Anatomy of Chaos Dwarves, partially translated.
-[X] JOHANN: Study an artefact: Unknown black gem, stolen from the Skaven.
-[X] DUCK: Johann's investigation into the ratling gun has hit a wall. See if you can help.
-[X] EIC: Put policies in place that local news should be collected and sent to you (rumour mill).
-[X] Seek to build a stronger rapport with Qrech, and provide enough sources of mental stimulation that you can turn your attention elsewhere. (NEW-ish)
-[X] Try to convince him outright to teach you Queekish. (NEW) - COIN HERE
-[X] Convince Qrech that the Underempire has no way of knowing he's even alive, and that he should prioritize the comfort with which he will live the rest of his life.
-[X] Convince Qrech you're ambitious and loyal only to yourself, and you're willing to repay his cooperation in ways that will benefit the Under-Empire.
-[X] Gain enough control of your attraction to smoke and gases to have it collect away from your face. (NEW)
-[X] Wolf is fully grown and a Very Good Boy. Train him. (increases his intelligence, he may learn to speak Praestantia)
-[X] [SERENITY] Write a paper: The ability of Alkharad to assume a projected form of mist.
-[X] Your dungeon was built with a reasonable amount of paranoia. Apply an unreasonable amount of paranoia.
-[X] The Gambler: Convince Qrech to teach Queekish.

Two actions on Qrech and Queekish and a third on Wolf to also help on Queekish.
Fourth action is on not dying from Skaven poison clouds, we spent 5 favours and got nothing but we can spend an action and hopefully fix the problem.

Wolf is an action we need to take eventually for the Queekish project and we'll get better dividends by taking it now. Additionally it'd be awkward if we straight up can't understand Queekish and should be useful for gaining more context from our Skaven captive Qrech that we are otherwise missing due to a lack of sensitive hearing and smell. Additionally this is a straightforwardly good choice that generally gives us a fair amount of useful advantages such as Radio Wolf, Librarian Wolf, Translator Wolf, Generally awesome Wolf.

If a plan doesn't have Wolf I wouldn't even consider it.

[X] Plan Learn to Speak
[x] Plan Translation Focus v2
[X] Plan Skryre Papers And Basic Necessities
 
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[X] Plan Slow and Steady
-[X] MAX: Study an artefact: The book on Chaos Dwarf anatomy.
-[X] JOHANN: Study an artefact: The unknown black gem.
-[X] DUCK: Adela's started her education in Dwarven engineering. Escort her to do field-testing with some of Gotri's prototypes, and grab what Queekish you can while doing so. Clan Skryre.
-[X] Found an internal investigation division, to investigate possible misconduct.
-[X] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for Qrech to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
-[X] The Colleges want you to do a series of lectures on your paper, Waaagh and Peace. Travel to Altdorf and do so.
-[*] Hire a Priest of Esmerelda to teach the We.
-[X] You have set up a Shrine to Ranald. Expand it into a Temple to the Gambler - a gambling hall with clean cards, guaranteed unloaded dice, fresh sawdust in the fighting ring, and a lottery every Festag. Costs 100gc.
-[X] Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae. COIN.
-[X] Have additional rooms excavated underneath your Penthouse: -100gc for 4 rooms.
-[X] The Gambler: Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae.
-[X] Serenity: The ability of Alkharad to assume a projected form of mist. (ALMOST FADED)

Throwing my hat in the ring. This aims to pick up quite a few different goals the thread seems to have while keeping on track for building a written queekish lexicon with Skyre technical documents.
 
[X] Plan Skryre Papers And Basic Necessities

What I actually want.

[X] Plan Queekish and Rapport Sneks
[X] Plan Slow and Steady, Johann goes Skryre

[X] Plan Slow and Steady with more papers

Stuff that I'm willing to approval vote.
 
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[X] Plan Delayed Gratification

[X] Plan Slow and Steady

Here you go @Zaratustra @Neshuakadal

I will vote for any plan that has us cut down on the pure utilitarian approach because as I said above I do not think it is good for the thread's state of mind to have a thousand and one projects in an ever-mounting backlog
 
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[X] Plan Learn to Speak
-[X] MAX: Study an artefact: Skaven book on the Anatomy of Chaos Dwarves, partially translated.
-[X] JOHANN: Study an artefact: Unknown black gem, stolen from the Skaven.
-[X] DUCK: Panoramia's about ready to test for Magister, but she doesn't have a lot of free time to prepare. Work with her to help make the most of every spare minute. (NEW)
-[X] Put policies in place that local news should be collected and sent to you (rumour mill).
-[X] Seek to build a stronger rapport with Qrech, and provide enough sources of mental stimulation that you can turn your attention elsewhere. (NEW-ish)
-[X] Try to convince him outright to teach you Queekish. (NEW) - COIN HERE
--[X] Convince Qrech that the Underempire has no way of knowing he's even alive, and that he should prioritize the comfort with which he will live the rest of his life.
--[X] Convince Qrech you're ambitious and loyal only to yourself, and you're willing to repay his cooperation in ways that will benefit the Under-Empire.
-[X] Investigate the exact circumstances required to induce a transformation.
-[X] Wolf is fully grown and a Very Good Boy. Train him. (increases his intelligence, he may learn to speak Praestantia)
-[X] [SERENITY] Write a paper: The ability of Alkharad to assume a projected form of mist.
-[X] Your dungeon was built with a reasonable amount of paranoia. Apply an unreasonable amount of paranoia.
-[X] The Gambler: Convince Qrech to teach Queekish.



EDIT: (sigh)

[X] Plan Slow and Steady
 
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[X] Plan Slow and Steady

It has both the lectures and the temple. I am happy.
 
[X] Plan Season of the Rat
-[X] MAX: Unknown black gem, stolen from the Skaven.
-[X] JOHANN: Join him on raids with the aim of finding Skaven Gas Masks and correspondence (Clan Skryre).
-[X] DUCK: Johann's investigation into the ratling gun has hit a wall. See if you can help.
-[X] EIC: Start building a paramilitary river navy to ensure the coming trade explosion doesn't lead to a similar explosion in riverine banditry.
-[X] PAPER: The ability of Alkharad to assume a projected form of mist.
-[X] PENTHOUSE: Have a gyrocopter landing pad built into your balcony.
-[X] QRECH: Try to convince him outright to teach you Queekish.
--[X] COIN: The Gambler
-[X] GAMBIT: Convince Qrech that the Underempire has no way of knowing he's even alive, and that he should prioritize the comfort with which he will live the rest of his life.
-[X] SELF IMPROVEMENT: Practice shooting while invisible. (applies to Substance of Shadow; will apply to Invisibility)
-[X] The Colleges want you to do a series of lectures on your paper, Waaagh and Peace. Travel to Altdorf and do so.
-[X] Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae.


[X] Plan Season of the Slow Rat
-[X] MAX: Unknown black gem, stolen from the Skaven.
-[X] JOHANN: Join him on raids with the aim of finding Skaven Gas Masks and correspondence (Clan Skryre).
--[X] COIN: The Gambler
-[X] DUCK: Johann's investigation into the ratling gun has hit a wall. See if you can help.
-[X] EIC: Start building a paramilitary river navy to ensure the coming trade explosion doesn't lead to a similar explosion in riverine banditry.
-[X] PAPER: The ability of Alkharad to assume a projected form of mist.
-[X] PENTHOUSE: Have a gyrocopter landing pad built into your balcony.
-[X] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for Qrech to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency. (Use Skryre documents)
-[X] GAMBIT: Convince Qrech that the Underempire has no way of knowing he's even alive, and that he should prioritize the comfort with which he will live the rest of his life.
-[X] SELF IMPROVEMENT: Practice shooting while invisible. (applies to Substance of Shadow; will apply to Invisibility)
-[X] The Colleges want you to do a series of lectures on your paper, Waaagh and Peace. Travel to Altdorf and do so.
-[X] Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae.

I'm going straight for the high value targets, priority research and long term benefits, it spreads us a bit thin, but so we worship Ranald or not!?

You know I'm born to lose, and gambling's for fools, but that's the way I like it baby I don't wanna live forever!
 
Here's my plan. Time for sleep.

[x] Plan Translation Focus v2
-[x] MAX: Study an artefact: Chaos Dwarf Anatomy Book
-[x] JOHANN: Join him on raids with the aim of finding written correspondence and gas masks (Skryre).
-[x] DUCK: Johann's investigation into the ratling gun has hit a wall. See if you can help.
-[x] Found an internal investigation division, to investigate possible misconduct.
-[x] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for Qrech to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
--[X] Write in: Convince Qrech that with Moulder gone from Eight Peaks, and their center of power far from the Empire, you no longer have any conflicts in interest with his clan and that it is in Moulder's best interests that the other Skaven of Eight Peaks suffer a similar fate.
-[x] Seek to build a stronger rapport with Qrech, and provide enough sources of mental stimulation that you can turn your attention elsewhere.
--[x] Convince Qrech that the Underempire has no way of knowing he's even alive, and that he should prioritize the comfort with which he will live the rest of his life.
-[x] Wolf is fully grown and a Very Good Boy. Train him. (increases his intelligence, he may learn to speak Praestantia)
-[x] Travel to Ubersreik and Mousillon to try to claim any captured Skaven writings.
-[x] Have additional rooms excavated underneath your Penthouse: -100gc for 4 rooms.
-[x] Write a paper: The ability of Alkharad to assume a projected form of mist. (ALMOST FADED)
-[x] The Gambler: Qrech rapport

This plan is still the strongest focus on the Queekish project of any plan proposed by anyone, as far as I know. It ensures progress this turn by securing a broad selection of documents from several clans and having them translated, and prepares groundwork for strong progress next turn by building Qrech rapport and training Wolf up for potential spoken Queekish translation work. I copied veekie's write-in for additional working on his motivations.

The only non-free action spent on anything other than Queekish is the duckling action, which went to the ratling gun because all document-seizing actions would have been redundant for translation purposes and some arguments were made as to its importance to the Karak.


[x] Plan Spread Focus v2
-[x] MAX: Study an artefact: Unknown black gem, stolen from the Skaven.
-[x] JOHANN: Study an artefact: Skaven vials, stolen from Clan Moulder.
-[x] DUCK: Johann's investigation into the ratling gun has hit a wall. See if you can help.
-[x] Found an internal investigation division, to investigate possible misconduct.
-[x] Seek to build a stronger rapport with Qrech, and provide enough sources of mental stimulation that you can turn your attention elsewhere. (NEW-ish)
--[x] Convince Qrech that the Underempire has no way of knowing he's even alive, and that he should prioritize the comfort with which he will live the rest of his life.
-[x] Wolf is fully grown and a Very Good Boy. Train him. (increases his intelligence, he may learn to speak Praestantia)
-[x] Study an artefact: Ranald's Coin
-[x] Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae.
-[x] Have additional rooms excavated underneath your Penthouse: -100gc for 4 rooms.
-[x] Write a paper: The ability of Alkharad to assume a projected form of mist. (ALMOST FADED)
-[x] The Gambler: Qrech rapport

This plan sets aside document translation in favor of building up Qrech with the intent of completely flipping him next turn, at which point he'll be able to teach us much more efficiently and painstaking translation comes out to a lot of wasted AP anyway. In the meantime, various research backlogs are addressed.
 
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[X] Plan Delayed Gratification

[X] Plan Slow and Steady

Here you go @Zaratustra @Neshuakadal

I will vote for any plan that has us cut down on the pure utilitarian approach because as I said above I do not think it is good for the thread's state of mind to have a thousand and one projects in an ever-mounting backlog
Perhaps you might be interested in mine? They try to get through the backlog.

[x] Plan Spread Focus v2
I'll edit this in as approval vote because I want things with the gem and Vitae to win.

[X] Plan Queekish and Gem Sneks
-[X] MAX: Study an artefact: The book on Chaos Dwarf anatomy.
-[X] JOHANN: Join him on raids with the aim of finding written correspondence and a gas mask in Clan Skryre.
-[X] DUCK: Johann's investigation into the ratling gun has hit a wall. See if you can help.
-[X] Found an internal investigation division, to investigate possible misconduct.
-[X] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for Qrech to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
-[X] Study an artifact: the unknown black gem.
-[X] Gain enough control of your attraction to smoke and gases to have it collect away from your face. (NEW)
-[X] Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae. COIN.
-[X] Have additional rooms excavated underneath your Penthouse: -100gc for 4 rooms.
-[X] The Gambler: Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae.
-[X] Serenity: The ability of Alkharad to assume a projected form of mist. (ALMOST FADED)

[X] Plan Queekish and Rapport Sneks
-[X] MAX: Study an artefact: The book on Chaos Dwarf anatomy.
-[X] JOHANN: Join him on raids with the aim of finding written correspondence and a gas mask in Clan Skryre.
-[X] DUCK: Johann's investigation into the ratling gun has hit a wall. See if you can help.
-[X] Found an internal investigation division, to investigate possible misconduct.
-[X] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for Qrech to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
-[X] Study an artifact: the unknown black gem.
-[X] Seek to build a stronger rapport with Qrech, and provide enough sources of mental stimulation that you can turn your attention elsewhere. (NEW-ish)
-[X] Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae. COIN.
-[X] Have additional rooms excavated underneath your Penthouse: -100gc for 4 rooms.
-[X] The Gambler: Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae.
-[X] Serenity: The ability of Alkharad to assume a projected form of mist. (ALMOST FADED)

[X] Plan Sneks with Temple
-[X] MAX: Study an artefact: The book on Chaos Dwarf anatomy.
-[X] JOHANN: Join him on raids with the aim of finding written correspondence and a gas mask in Clan Skryre.
-[X] DUCK: Johann's investigation into the ratling gun has hit a wall. See if you can help.
-[X] Found an internal investigation division, to investigate possible misconduct.
-[X] Supply a steady stream of Queekish documents for Qrech to translate, and carefully check the results for consistency.
-[X] Study an artifact: the unknown black gem.
-[X] You have set up a Shrine to Ranald. Expand it into a Temple to the Gambler - a gambling hall with clean cards, guaranteed unloaded dice, fresh sawdust in the fighting ring, and a lottery every Festag. Costs 100gc.
-[X] Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae. COIN.
-[X] Have additional rooms excavated underneath your Penthouse: -100gc for 4 rooms.
-[X] The Gambler: Investigate how living things react to exposure to the Vitae.
-[X] Serenity: The ability of Alkharad to assume a projected form of mist. (ALMOST FADED)

[x] Plan Spread Focus v2
 
I mean in principle I totaly agree with you, wich is why I have the action on lotting the Skryre clan in the hope of gas masks, but in practice the last loot votes were filled with the sentiment that we don't want money since we have enought already and vow of poverty, and we don't want shinies since it will just increase backlog, I don't agree with either of that but enought of the thread do that I don't se a second raiding action being a good use of time.
We can give away all of our shinies to the person you are raiding with and build our relationship. Nothing is stopping us from doing that. We are essentially complaining that we have too many opportunities and avoiding anything that might give us more.
Sending Johann and Gretel makes sense because as the stealthiest units other than Mathilde, we're more likely to get significant documents, or if we get lucky enough, Skyre books and blueprints.
This I feel is an important point. Skyre blueprints essentially save us actions. A blueprint of the machine gun would mean that Johann's problems are basically over. They also let us figure out Queekish faster because we can Breach the Unknown and Tale of Metal the item and compare the results with the blueprint.
That is a very nebulous statement that cannot be verified without doing statistical analyses. What is most of the backlog and what is most of the thread and how exactly do they interact when voting plan format where people may prioritize the plans with certain actions over preferences in others?

I used the 'they will keep for hundreds of years' to show how the utilitarian argument can be used like a seldgehammer to delay and delay when what it actually does is crowd out certain actions entirely
I see zero arguments for most of those things. Like ever. On the hundreds of years bit, you're taking a joke and trying to turn it into a serious argument.
You get enough skaven prisoners, apply enough pressure, and ask them what sound does this symbol make and one of them will break or you get enough of the same answers to make a conclusion. The reason they couldn't do it before is because they had no knowledge of what the symbol met. Why they didn't do this before to figure out what the symbols mean I don't know, likely to have something with the conspiracy of silence. With a functional lexicon they could even do field interrogations.

My feeling on the subject is that a lot spoken queekish revolves around set of senses that makes it hard for humans to follow making it only useful for a subset of wizards who have familiars that can translate those senses. It just doesn't make sense for me to spend a ton of AP on something only a small subset will ever be able to really use. And an even smaller subset of wizards will even in position to use with the conspiracy of silence and all. If the grey order thinks spoken queekish is useful enough to pursue they can do that. I don't think it is though.
1. We have no idea how spoken Queekish works. We have done zero research. Your assumptions are essentially that.
2. Your idea of learning Queekish is a significant effort that risks aggravating the skaven and causing a war for a nebulous gain. The conspiracy of silence exists for a reason. We have a unique position of having divinely backed interrogation techniques that can be used on a reasonably friendly skaven.
 
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[X] Plan Queekish and Rapport Sneks
[X] Plan Slow and Steady, Johann goes Skryre
[X] Plan Slow and Steady with more papers

For now. I'll see if I want to approval vote other plans.
 
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