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Is it possible to permanently kill a vampire? Posters mention that they can always come back, but is there a way to prevent this?
Easily. First off, most vamps typically need some.... assistance coming back.

Vlad and Isabella are currently in a vault in Altdorf, IIRC.
Like in a bank, or in the Palace? I just have this image of some bank staffer accidentally giving out the keys to that rather then the usual vault, and nobody notices the vampires lying around for some time.
 
K8P Mage Quest
K8P Mage Quest:
(Mathilde Player: Spider Parade!)
(GM: The only people who aren't gawking are actively getting more people to help the gawk properly at the sight.. or staking claims in the section of the residential district the 'Spider Parade!' just vacated.)
(Amber Mages Players: Now that the Grey Mage bought that magic translator, we can probably leave... and get away from the crazy lady.)
(Max Player: I teach the spiders literacy in common... only took one turn to get We functional in it.)
(Amber Mage Players: *hisssss* The instincts scream in terror its contagious we must flee!)
(GM: Eventually, you get around to reading the letter that came back with your results from the review panel. Its a good haul of favors and a separate note indicates the amber order have received your message. They respond that Grey Mages are trained in diplomacy with nonanimals and her province of origin's poor all talk ancestry like that. Just because the person she was talking to was made of giant spiders... your paper tells us that... doesn't make her crazy for talking to spiders you can't understand due to syntax. *eye roll emoji*)
---
K8P Mage Quest (private Mathilde channel):
(GM: Your new favorite drama book continues to be amazing drama and you realize that it container a new character the Vlad.. before he was cool.)
(Mathilde Player: Does knowing this make me a hipster?)
(GM: Not unless you brag about reading the Liber Mortis to people... One more reason they all must never know you read the Book.)
(Mathilde Player: They must never know I've been flirting with being a book that gives me hipster street cred... they'd probably react worse than if they know I was reading the necromantic lore Book. *Flashbacks to what happened to Daniel during her apprenticeship*)
(GM: Err... also you got enough Morr Lore to cover that field of knowledge and help out the piety counselor he calculates months if not years where taken off that tasks duration due to your Morr Lore and thank you *silently wonders what the other GM did to whoever 'Daniel' was. This is like the fourth time she has freaked out over possible signs of being a hipster in character*)
---
K8P Mage Quest:
(GM: So you stick a bar/temple on the Mugging site and the hard part is explaining to the dwarves what a cat looks like... you have to literally supervise them the entire time. That is one smug cat statue.)
(Mathilde Player: Its a commemorative SMugging cat statue after all. Any special abilities.)
(GM: *Rolls* er... *mumbles irl* I don't remember that even being on the table. I'm confused *stops mumbling* it apparently allows cats in its influence to safely eat things they shouldn't be able to eat safely.)
(Mathilde Player: Well it is a protective, smug cat statue... wait if there are no cats here, how do I even know this?)
(GM: Because Corporal Snuggles is eating a rather large slice of ham on the statues head. *mumbles irl*When did I write this in my notes?*stops mumbles* you know that a Oswald Oswaldson the 144th just came in looking for his cat and found it.)
(Mathilde Player: Well that should take care of the advertisement actions, free action completion get! Also, I have received the gift know who I can send minions that annoy me to for punishment.)
(GM: Be aware the cat has been temporarily demoted for running off like that. Also, you get 4 stat points and a psychic link for actually paying attention to your familiar. Who hit a growth spurt and is actually dog shaped again, instead of ball shaped. All that exercise means he actually walks instead of bouncing squishily after you.)
(Mathilde Player: Who's a dog shaped dog! Good boy Wolf you dog shaped dog you!)
Later:
(GM: You succeed in traumatizing the sleazy ideas against dwarfs out of EIC... and then take your horror story theater on the road. Its super effective.)
(Max Player: ...and what did she learn from this?)
(GM: She learned that "Codrin Petrescu's sort of a Sylvanian joke," for 'may all your urination be inclined to rising levels of arboreal verticality. Things Belegar feels about this factoid are not favor worthy for that twit.)
Later still:
(Johann Player: Oh you want to know about me, I'm a golden cyborg (except my head because apparent doing that makes hungery peasants try to steal your skin) with very high diplomacy and intrigue, mostly because my diplomacy makes me personable enough to uncanny valley my windmate mages. When I got the all that high quality dwarven gold I decided to upgrade myself. Glorious bonuses to those rolls... I'm here because researching skaven tech and even taking it from skaven is far, far less annoying that dealing with those people.)
(Mathilde Player: Okay, need some buffs?)
(Johann Player: I'm good. I charge at the ratling gun head on making hideously tacky stupidly expensive, self propelled mine cart noises.)
(Mathilde Player: Stealthy mage makes nonentity non-noises and charges in selectively incorporeal.)
*A pile of combat rolls later, the GM simply puts up a link to a rather fast paced, techno mix where the vocals are all variants of auto~tuned Wilhelm screams*
(Johann Player: I loot the ratling gun first!)
*rolls for loot*
(GM: You find lots and lots or random bewarpstoned trinkets and Mathilde private channel)
---
*One hilarious scene of spontaneous, accidental, synchronized, multi species, invisible, beshadowed aerobics session later... and a quick separation later*
Clan Mors Quest:
(GM: So your outpost goes down to the relentless sound of annoying metal on metal tinging what sounds strangely like someone constantly yelling 'IMMUNE' endlessly because of some random human in robes making loud silly noises while the following sound tract plays *posts link to about song* no one survives to tell you this happened.)
(Skaven player: Wait... if purple makes orcs invisible... what does them painting themselves pink again mean?)
(GM: OOC knowledge warning guys.)
---
Clan Eshin Quest:
(Skaven Assassin from earlier: So Traitor Clan managed to tick off some humans and are getting pounded from yet another side.)
(Another Skaven Assassin: I think we would have noticed if the orks got into a big enough fight to make that possible. We checked on them like two turns ago. I'm not for wasting actions on confirming that.)
(Skaven Assassin from earlier: You guys never listen to me no matter how many times I survive combat or tell you things.)
(Skaven half serious peacemaker: So that outpost is a wash, mission successful then.)
---
K8P Mage Quest:
(Mathilde Player: So I found lots of ninja stars as trophies in there, Clan Eshin is at war with them too apparently, what did these idiots do?)
(Johann Player: Don't know, get anything really good?)
(Mathilde Player: I got a warpstar that constantly renews its warp poison.)
(Johann Player: Into the lead lined BOX! of favor generation!)
Later:
(Mathilde Player: Finally, a new warboss to randomly one hit assassinate on a scouting trip. I was kind of worried I was losing my touch.)
---
Meanwhile in Clan Mors Quest (Private Chieftan channel):
(GM: So your Chieftan rants on endlessly about things that aren't your fault and utterly fails to not blame you for things you did succeeded in reporting. Loudly.)
(Mors Chieftan: That is in fact what I am doing, listening to my own glorious-glorious voice. I never get tired of this part of the job.)
(Mors Messenger: Kind wish he'd drop dead so I can leave with my hearing intact. Being rather cowed here.
(GM: Well your dagger apparently gets tired of your glorious-glorious voice and spontaneously lodges itself into your chest.)
(Mors Chieftan: LOLwut?)
(Mors Messenger: LOLWUT?)
*Mors Chieftain and Mors Messanger roll perception*
(GM: There is still a dagger lodged in your/his torso... and your an ex-Chieftain.)
---
Clan Mors Quest: Public channel:
(GM: So you storm vermin storm into the room to discover why its suddenly dead quite. Before you is a random minion skaven messenger staring at the chieftain radiating confusion musk.)
(Storm Vermin Squadhead: What is the Chieftain doing? Any indication of why he stopped ranting without sending the minion scurrying away in terror or killing him off?)
*Storm Vermin all roll perception*
(GM: Mostly rotting on the ground and radiating confusion musk over his own fancy dagger lodged in his torso.)
(Storm Vermin Squadhead: Ooookkkkaayy... I stare at the random with a questioning musk release.)
*Mors Messenger rolls perception*
(Mors Messenger: I continue staring at the Chieftain in confusion. Judging by the roll, its oblivious confusion as the wheels in my head have slipped a gear or thirteen.)
(Storm Vermin Squadhead: Explain this messenger!)
*Mors Messenger rolls perception*
(Mors Messanger: Kind of heard that, barely, but completely missed the implications. The dagger moved on its own and stabbed him... daggers aren't suppose to be able to do that. We have daggers that can move on their own now? That sounds like a good-good, but they apparently raise objections through stabbings... is that a bug or a feature *babbles in confusion longer*)
*Mors Messenger rolls perception*
(Storm Vermin Squadhead: So I blink at that and sick most of the Storm vermin on him on principle... and while we are dealing with the messenger I order my least favorite to go find a box and put the Chieftain's dagger and sheath in it. Gonna gift that to a whoever I have to report to to explain this. You know, in case our snack is right about the dagger. Dibs on Chieftain's helmet!)
*Mors Messenger rolls perception*
(Mors Messenger: Oh, now I succeeded. Flailing and radiating fear musk are all I can do before rolling a new character. I'm glad I didn't actually name this character yet. Its like his life span was measured in botched perception rolls)
(Least favored Storm Vermin: Ah man.)
---
K8P Mage Quest:
(GM: Kragg comes by radiating something disturbingly close to frolicking actually skipping for him. His beard is singed. He isn't grumpy at all.)
*Amber Mages roll to disbelieve*
(GM: You aren't even in this scene, though you did see him notskipping by. So nope... still saw that.)
(Amber Mages Players: She broke Kragg. KRAGG! We are all going to go mad! ARG!!!)
(GM: Right-o have fun with that. He wants to see Mathilde sparring and has questions about your new sword.)
(Max Player: New sword?)
(Mathilde Player: I spent 25 dwarf favor on a greatsword of doom! and found apparently expendable gromril full plate while scouting the Skaven.)
(Max Player: Niiiice!)
(Amber Mage Players: SsssKKKEEEEEEEeeeEEEEeeeeEEE!!!)
(Johann Player: Aren't you like tiny and a grey mage? When did you take up a greatsword of all things?)
(GM: Since before this campaign. She had one on when you met her. How do you not know this? You just a had like a bijillion fights with her in the party? Like this session.)
(Johann Player: I keep skimming people's descriptions. Also just because I was fighting with her in the same room repeatedly doesn't mean I've actually seen her actually fight.)
(Max Player: Haven't seen her fight? Like you failed to note she goes around inn a witch hunters hat all the time? I'm the wulf cavalry think she is their commissar or something, because of it.)
(Johann Player: One she is basically invisible in combat, like things just die or random melt around you. Also, witch hunters hat? *check character sheets* I am made of oblivious... also invisible commissar that makes you feel adiquit with their combat prowess? I didn't realize she was with the angry marines.)
(Mathilde Player: That is just a rumor and you know it. Why do people keep saying that? Also, I manages to pick off a Mors Clan Chieftain. In front of a witness, who only saw the dagger move on its own and the slipped out when the Storm vermin guard stormed into the room.)
(Amber Mage Players: SsssKKKEEEEEEEeeeEEEEeeeeEEE!!!)
 
[Maximilian teaching the We: Learning, 62+16+10(Patient)+7(Library: The Empire of Man)=95.]
Note to selves: our employees benefit from our library.

To say that you draw a few stares as you lead a procession of enormous spiders across the Eastern Valley is an understatement. Despite the entire Karak being forewarned to avoid any messy misunderstandings, the only people who didn't stop to gawk were the ones calling for other people to get here quick so they could join in the gawking. The We seemed equally uncomfortable, both from the amount of stares they get and from being exposed, and you reflect that this may be the first time any of their species has walked under the open sky. You also get your first glimpse of the three Egg-Layers, which resemble an Arachnarok spider in size but completely lack fangs, and the innumerable dog-sized Web-Weavers clinging to the Egg-Layers like a coat of armour. The Hunters flank the skittering procession, though that they're facing forward instead of outwards is a gesture of trust.
For some reason I think that our success/actions will be a bit less surprising to the council than our initial success was.
 
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There's no real evidence of that being the case though. Like, Kragg could still do exactly what he wanted, and yes he's the most experienced Runelord around, but Runes come across as the sort of thing that doesn't take skill to operate, only to create.

And so? If an unpredictable effect is screwing around in someone else's body, why does Mathilde care? She'd have to be at range to be using a pistol anyway.
Skill is indeed pretty pointless when it comes to using Runed items. Its also pretty not relevant in their direct operation because they are magical enchantments which alter how the object works that don't care who or what is using it or even really how.

On the topic of the Anvil of Doom, which I consider an iffy point of comparison anyway due to how much of a pinnacle of the craft it is and how Kragg regularly breaks rules of Runecraft anyway, there is that conversation he had with Belegar directly after the battle where his explicit angry look made Belegar go "not worth the risk to the Anvil".

And I figure its a problem because properly rifled guns deform the bullet in the gun's barrel, in Mathilde's hand. These are magical devices and when you start mucking about with changing a magical device after you have made it and enchanted it is not something that I ever recall as being described as safe in any lore I've ever read for Warhammer. Enchantment of an object from the colleges is one effect, and we've never had it indicated we could have multiple effects and if we break the object that enchantment is going to do something unstable. Runesmithing is still enchantment and is still using magic. It is more stable, but it is also described as more rigid what with all the rules.

But also here's a line of thought to chew over. Take an axe and engrave the Rune of Cleaving onto it. It is now supernaturally good at cutting and being an axe. What happens when you break the axe blade in half but leave the Rune intact? Its no longer on an axe. Its not even on a complete weapon anymore. Its on a chunk of broken metal. Its not on the axe it was inscribed upon ages ago, its on the fragments of that axe. Why should it continue to function in the exact same manner?

Rule of Form - Weapon runes can only be inscribed on weapons, armour runes can only be inscribed on armour, banner runes can only be inscribed on standards, engineering runes can only be inscribed on war machines, and talismanic runes can only be inscribed on talismans.

When you consider the Rule of Form it says that weapons runes can only be used on weapons. A thing has to have the form of a weapon to take such a Weapon Rune. So turning that logic around if you can only apply a Rune to a weapon it must be a Weapon Rune and have some kind of effect suitable for a Weapon Rune. This means that the form of the object upon which the Rune must be inscribed has an influence on the Rune's effect. A broken weapon perhaps can still be used as a weapon, but it is no longer precisely in the form of a weapon and is scrap. So considering as well that point about form and Runes, the form changing means it should change the Rune in some respect. Maybe it just fades, maybe it breaks spectacularly, maybe it starts acting weird. But it staying the exact same just on a smaller chunk of the object seems optimistic on the topic of magic in warhammer, that most unreliable of things.

If you frame it like I am as a Rune being inscribed on an object as locking a stable matrix of identity-less Magic to a specific object as an indelible part of it, then it makes sense to me that if you alter the object you alter that stable matrix. Deforming parts of it, and since the form of that matrix is what imparts the effect then altering it should alter what the effect is.
 
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So I want to bring people's attention to something that hasn't been mentioned, but might be interesting to note.

This quote is talking about Codrin and the runic bolstering he got from Kragg. Mathilde wonders at any long term effects he might experience... and there's a possibility that there are, and the Undumgi might be experiencing them.

This quote wouldn't be such a big deal alone, and in fact it might not be, but it's interesting because both Mathilde and Belegar noted it as unusual and bemusing to have humans worshipping Grimnir and Valaya, Dwarven Ancestor Gods...

Then there's this. This might be the weirdest one, considering Mathilde has a super high Learning score and is constantly interacting with Dwarves and actively picking up Khazalid. Yet the Undumgi are only "slightly less" behind in learning it? Seems weird, especially considering a good number of them should be peasants that don't have high levels of education, so picking up a whole language nearly as fast as Mathilde is pretty impressive.

I'm not quite certain enough to make any conclusions, but there MIGHT be a pattern here. I'm going to be looking out for signs, but the Undumgi might be Dwarfing up as a result of Kragg's runes.
Not, impossible. Despite almost 2500 years of alliance, between the time of the three Emperors, and the increasing rarity of Anvils of Doom, as well as the even rarer instances of bringing them into combat, it's not impossible that the augments available to the Anvils have never been applied to humans before.

And the Anvil's methods are distinctly different from regular augment magic, at least in delivery and mechanics if not effects.
 
That's what the "Burn them to ashes, melt them into lead bricks, and then dump them in seperate oceanic trenches" thing is about.

Granted, it also isn't easy to bring them back once deadified like that. Even I know it takes a great deal of effort, as well as rare ingredients and someone willing to do so.

Under the Temple of Sigmar, IIRC. Holy ground and all that.
So is that a yes or a no? I mean, religions used to lend money all the time....
 
@EVA-Saiyajin @SuperSonicSound thanks! that makes me feel less rushed. I was worried that it was right around the corner. But, I have a bad sense of time. (sorry, this is really late. first thing I wrote, then this \/ happened

@BoneyM thank you for the clarification. I just see so many people always getting extensive, I was wondering if I was missing something. Unless I am missing something, we have a grand total of 1 non-extensive library, with all of the leading library votes only having one non-extensive (the romance novels). It was just odd to me, though it does make sense. Definitely happy that its an upgrade, because otherwise I would be arguing for extensive esoteric or bust.

Also, I think @SuperSonicSound is referring to the shopping votes, not the library votes, though those have fairly similar problems in my mind. both are similarly open-ended, both spend money no-one can agree if we should spend, etc.

In the end, I think that people just a) don't want to read through all of the discussion (and occasional more heated arguments) and/or b) trust those of us who care/have time enough to work on the more open-ended votes to make a good choice. Let's not let them down!

I don't really understand this seemingly newfound need for a pistol, but it looks like its going to win, so c' la v'ie. Seems like another cash sink. Super sad the stealth sword didn't win too, but whatever. hitting hard is a fair option. I just prefer to double down on strengths than cover weaknesses. If we need fast/strong sword, IMO, then something has probably gone a bit wrong. And we are clearly not the stealthiest there is, so I was hoping the sword would help. This is a favor 25 sword, after all. I doubt even our possible increases in magical skill/power would render it irrelevant.

In any case... I don't really love any of the library plans, but...

[X] [LIBRARY] Snakes And Swords
[X] [LIBRARY] Plan Redshirt

Fine, these will do. Can we cut back on the book-buying soonish? Im not saying stop entirely, but we are spending way more per turn than we make, and I would prefer to keep some of this windfall of cash we got for a rainy-day fund (or a now-or-never amazing opportunity fund). I think that the books are super in character, but I also think that Mathilde is too practical to not keep some back in case things go amazingly wrong or right.

Also, though I was originally against the romance novels (more due to quantity and unreadability than anything), I am happy to see her get a few. Though I will argue that just because she likes romance novels for leisure reading, and is buying most other books for work, doesn't mean that she won't read some of them for entertainment. Many people like to read to learn and entertain at the same time. Probably more the basic level / extensive level books than the hard, heavy stuff, but maybe not. IDK.

And now, with all that... dinner time. my hands hurt. I have a bad habit of writing a long, single, extensive post, or nothing/just a vote. To anyone who got here, thank you for your consideration! I would be happy to hear why you agree/disagree. Ping/quote me though, I'm not always paying attention.
 
Ok, here's my attempt to consolidate the votes and clear up the formatting issues. I dont think theres any big changes here, but there was at least one marksdwarf pistol vote of nonstandard formatting, so since thats (iirc) the closest vote its important to remember once the voting closes
Adhoc vote count started by Abby Normal on Oct 10, 2019 at 7:46 PM, finished with 1120 posts and 183 votes.
 
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In the end, I think that people just a) don't want to read through all of the discussion (and occasional more heated arguments) and/or b) trust those of us who care/have time enough to work on the more open-ended votes to make a good choice. Let's not let them down!

I think that this is going to be a pretty major factor to consider in general. It's very much reached the point where keeping up with the thread is a significant time investment, which means there's no way to give the thread fine control over... well, pretty much anything, without it becoming dominated by the dedicated minority.
 
[X] [SHOPPING] A Marksdwarf Pistol.

Should be portable enough that we can take it without moving around equipment, we already know how to use it, and the extra accuracy and damage for the single shot make it superior for assassination.

[X] [ENCHANTMENT] Grounding Rod

Cheap enough not to matter and something we want on hand NOW if we need it. If we're blowing through grounding rods fast enough to be worth spending Dwarf favors making a permanent version rather than buying any we're doing something badly wrong.


[X] [LIBRARY] Snakes And Swords

Expensive topics are ones we're going to want eventually anyway and incidentals are cheap.

[X] Tower of Utter Neutrality - with rune and material and a great deal of care, make your Tower completely magically neutral. Large bonus to studying anything magical, small bonus to studying everything else from higher Magesight contrast. 250gc, 5 Dwarf favours.

Bandwagon, but for good reasons. On top of the promise/possible thread revolt argument a bonus to all study options and a larger one to magic study makes a LOT of sense for a learning advisor, beating out a free action for paper writing even in strict utility.

[X] [KRAGG] Hit Hard

Everything else we can get through training or make do without, but this sword is fundamentally meant to be something that NO enemy could ignore when we hit them with it.

Fine with any of the spider options.
 
Our book purchasing has dropped pretty dramatically each turn; first turn we spent about four thousand gold on it, then about two thousand and 2 favor the next turn, and now the top plan is looking to spend about 700gc and 2 favor. Obviously we're spending a huge amount of money on this, but it helps us do the job, we started with a huge amount of money, and, well, it's right for the character.

Anyway, the pattern is pretty logarithmic: our book spending is more-or-less halving every turn. We're in the book-purchasing realm of "odds and ends to do our job" now that we have a massive level of baseline competence established by our library.
 
The Skaven Army Book fluff is probably most interesting for the fact it's the only Army book/codex I can recall that consists almost entirely of "Mission failed, we'll get 'em next time."

Sometimes it's Athel Loren sortieing out that fucks them over, or underestimating Asur fleets, but typically it's other Skaven fucking up like Saturday morning cartoon villains.
 
I think that this is going to be a pretty major factor to consider in general. It's very much reached the point where keeping up with the thread is a significant time investment, which means there's no way to give the thread fine control over... well, pretty much anything, without it becoming dominated by the dedicated minority.
This thread is currently in 12th place for most messages in the questing forum. Out of those it's probably the thread that's spent the least time active, though that's difficult to confirm due to the hiatus.
 
hope they don't have to be in order. someone let me know if they do please.

[X] [SPIDER] They are the very definition of 'miscellaneous weirdness' and thus the responsibility of the Court Wizard.

[X] [KRAGG] Hit When They're Not Looking

[X] Tower of Utter Neutrality

[x] [ENCHANTMENT] Grounding Rod

[X] [SHOPPING] No purchase.

[X] [LIBRARY] Snakes And Swords
[X] [LIBRARY] Plan Redshirt
 
In the end, I think that people just a) don't want to read through all of the discussion (and occasional more heated arguments) and/or b) trust those of us who care/have time enough to work on the more open-ended votes to make a good choice. Let's not let them down!
I think that this is going to be a pretty major factor to consider in general. It's very much reached the point where keeping up with the thread is a significant time investment, which means there's no way to give the thread fine control over... well, pretty much anything, without it becoming dominated by the dedicated minority.
This thread is currently in 12th place for most messages in the questing forum. Out of those it's probably the thread that's spent the least time active, though that's difficult to confirm due to the hiatus.

And building on this, even I rarely have time to read all the debates on topics that I only moderately care about, let alone all the ones that are of less importance to me. I try to keep up when I can, but I most of the time wake up in the morning and just skip to the most recent. rinse repeat multiple times a day. I might skim through and try to read all of Boney's messages and clarifications, but... to my knowledge, there's no great way to do that, so I dont both pretty often. Its for a few hours at night that I can actually spend time involved.
 
This thread is currently in 12th place for most messages in the questing forum. Out of those it's probably the thread that's spent the least time active, though that's difficult to confirm due to the hiatus.
It's funny, not so long ago, I though the Victoria thread was moving fast because it had 140 pages in the first week and a half. And that is fast, but it's not exactly comparable...

Edit: The post that ended the hiatus was about a month and a half- and 1200 pages- ago.

1200 pages over 41 days; a little under 30 pages a day. And it is, if anything, only speeding up.
 
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[X] [SPIDER] They are the very definition of 'miscellaneous weirdness' and thus the responsibility of the Court Wizard.

[X] [SHOPPING] No purchase.

[X] Tower of Utter Neutrality

[X] [KRAGG] Hit Fast
 
I've consolidated some of the Informational threadmarks. WHFB statline is on the charsheet, K8P Expedition and Stirland Geopolitics moved to the Collection of Important Information, Spellbooks grouped together. Mainly so charsheet is accessible from the drop-down.
 
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