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Hah. That rather misses the point- of course it doesn't apply here directly.
But the Conspiracy of Silence exploits a known trait of the Skaven- that absent an outside threat, they will tend to fight amongst themselves.

Poking them too hard, too obviously before we're ready risks uniting Mors, Skryre and Moulder against us.
Doing that without the full backing and agreement of Belegar and the war leaders and adequate K8P preparation... is somewhere north of recklessly negligent.
I'd honestly assume skaven are being picked off occasionally by ranger patrols. No reason to assume helping Johan with his plan to get skaven tech to poke at is going to set them off any worse than that.
 
Can someone voting for Plan Not Really Preliminary Anymore tell me why that plan has the Asp blood research action and the tower building action? If you're going to preempt the point of the tower by researching the blood now, what's the point? Just vote for excavating our vault and library this turn.
 
Can someone voting for Plan Not Really Preliminary Anymore tell me why that plan has the Asp blood research action and the tower building action? If you're going to preempt the point of the tower by researching the blood now, what's the point? Just vote for excavating our vault and library this turn.

Probably because they are impatient and don't trust the thread to vote for Asp blood next turn? If the Asp blood roll fails though because of the rush to research before the tower is up though, there's a very good chance it'd be several turns before enough support is amassed again to research the Asp Blood, because AP Starvation is a very real phenomenon. Fail the blood research roll, and I suspect it'd be harder to convince the thread to part with AP for another attempt to roll the Asp Blood. The obvious compromise vote here is basically: vote for tower building this turn, and the tower building voters would promise to vote for snake blood next turn. The problem is how to organize such a compromise, besides the Tower building with no asp blood offers on the table right now.

If Asp Blood research wins by a close margin before our lab is up, and it fails, we've basically multiplied our AP expenditure from 2 to 3 on the Asp Blood. Furthermore, I need to ask the thread: are you comfortable researching the Asp Blood in front of the Journeymen? If your answer is sure, why not, then looping in the Journeymen in case we run into difficulties with Asp Blood research is probably one move you should strongly consider. While I'm personally inclined to err on the side of privacy, I am open to a case to conduct snake blood research in a lab which our journeymen and Johann (which alot of people in this thread express distrust and antagonism with!) are able to freely access.
 
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Adding an approval vote for Improvement, Improvement Everywhere.

Really hope some "good of the empire" plans get some traction.
 
This is incredibly unlikely, since the spiders are going to be in a secure area with restricted access. Remember that the Citadel is garrisoned by dwarves.
Yeah, that's fair. I'll have to chew this over for a while; so many good choices, so little time.

Cloning Mathilde is starting to sound like a better and better idea, even with the risk of one spontaneously sprouting a goatee and becoming Negaverse Mathilde or something.
 
And that I suppose is Nagash's trick. How a human can approach the power of the Dark Elves wielding True Dhar without an Elf's multiplexed mind to crush the winds into a single perfect shape instantly. Take ONE thread and weave it with that one thread of singular focus.

Weave it with the patience and focus of a literal priest, which both Frederick and Nagash were.

The description actually sounds a little like making tempered glass.
This has interesting, and frightening, implications in regards to the craft of the Chaos Dwarfs.

Because "work it slowly, carefully, exactly and patiently" is something Dwarfs would be good at. And if good Dwarfs are able to manipulate magic so finely that they can take all the different winds of magic and turn it into something... tamed... achieving something interestingly comparable to elf Qhaysh... Then evil Dwarfs being able to apply that expertise to the manipulation of Dhar, well...

So. Yeah. Either the Chaos Dwarfs already know the First Secret of Dhar -- just by independently stumbling upon it, due to a Dwarf mindset being well disposed towards doing so -- or them learning it would be really damn bad.


Of course, on the other hand -- Dwarf Runesmiths learning of the Second Secret of Dhar... Well. You'd be able to trust Dwarfs with the first two secrets of it. Especially Runesmiths or Runelords, who already are secretive as hell.

Of course the issue would be figuring out how to communicate such knowledge to the Dwarfs. i.e. The fact that you somehow know all this. In a way that doesn't come back to bite you. (I mean, maybe it's easier because unlike other wizards who would know the issue with "How the fuck did you just do that??" the Dwarfs might not know it. So it's not necessary to come up with the same excuses that you would for a wizard.) But still. If it were managed, then... it could be quite useful. Dwarf Runesmiths would be able to shatter entire armies of Necromancers and constructs of Dark Magic.

Of course, it might not work. Maybe the Dwarfs already know this, and it's how they counterspell with their Anvils of Doom to begin with. Or maybe the Dwarfs, being unable to see magic, would not be able to see where to hit Dark Magic in that one spot that will make it unravel explosively. Or maybe there's no easy excuse to find for why you would know such magic.

Or, for that matter, maybe trying to teach something, or even just demonstrate and give information about, to a Runelord is an exercise in frustration/futility and ain't gonna get you shit. Still, there's probably more ways to be able to pass on information than just by trying to bluntly tell somebody about it.

But if it did work... The possibility and potential is interesting. Because I'm willing to bet that this situation -- of the Dwarfs having a friendly wizard and trusted, and said wizard having access to the Liber Mortis -- has never come up before. So the Dwarfs have never been in a position to receive such knowledge.
 
I see all. Why do you ask?
Panoramia rolls her eyes. :V
I'd honestly assume skaven are being picked off occasionally by ranger patrols. No reason to assume helping Johan with his plan to get skaven tech to poke at is going to set them off any worse than that.
Or we could assume the veteran Dawi Rangers with generations of institutional experience know what they're doing, while we're impulsive Manling Mages stomping around where we're likely to do more harm than good.

To be clear, it's this intention of deliberately poking them that is reckless.

Don't needlessly poke the Skaven.
 
Or we could assume the veteran Dawi Rangers with generations of institutional experience know what they're doing, while we're impulsive Manling Mages stomping around where we're likely to do more harm than good.

To be clear, it's this intention of deliberately poking them that is reckless.

Don't needlessly poke the Skaven.
I think you're kind of underestimating the ability of them to be discreet when the job is to get tech and acquire valuable stuff, not cause mayhem when it's not voted for.
 
Oh, I saw that some of the other re-written songs were marked up as media so was wondering if you saw it. I guess it just isn't good enough for it, or I should have linked a video or something. Never mind.

I was in popcorn mode instead of QM mode when I saw it. QM Boney appreciates all fan content, but popcorn Boney didn't have the spiderman cartoon in their childhood. Link it to me again and I'll add it.
 
Poke!
The vote says poke!
That's not stealthy infiltration. That's "go and stir things up".

(Plan Citadel Focus is also a waste of Johann. Make him do something we are paying him to do, not something he'll do for free anyway. ) - feel free to ignore this part.

Don't poke the Skaven.
 
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Which isn't the goal here? Its working with Johann for:
-Building teamwork. He's a peer being told what to do by a less senior party, show him our chops and vice versa so we stop stalking around each other passive aggressively.

-Skaven loot for tech studies. Assuming he's not dumb and has logical reasons for approaching Skaven stuff(he DID make Magister and no College lets you do that without high competency and trust), he has applicable skills. Mathilde on her own would be hard pressed to identify whats most valuable outside of Gromril or written information, but working with Johann means depriving Mors of wargear for our own sides' investigation.

-Opportunistic sabotage and theft will happen regardless if we go there and a good diversion lets the spiders settle in withoht being interrupted.
Clan Moulder is at war with two other Skaven clans, and they still correctly deduced things were fishy when we tried to start shit in Karag Lhune disguised as a Skaven. If the goblins hadn't been DC 30 easy marks, we would have been in trouble (more trouble than we already were from those roided-up bloodhounds). The same principle broadly applies to our new plan of double sabotage and theft. It's probably fine, but the consequences if we flub a roll are huge.
 
Johann only just got back from 'becoming a Magister,' how about we don't just turn him loose immediately and actually assert our authority over him? Doing so early makes it easier to insist on later when it really might matter.
 
Johann only just got back from 'becoming a Magister,' how about we don't just turn him loose immediately and actually assert our authority over him? Doing so early makes it easier to insist on later when it really might matter.
Exactly. Establish the pattern you want to see continue early on.
We're in charge, like it or not he's here on our sufferance.
No need to make his life miserable, but the sooner he knows who's boss here, the better.
Ok. How about Spirit's plan?
Better, IMO.
Spends too much time on Spider-communication, really, and I'm still not a fan of teaching the We to read and write, at all.
Lower risk, in that it's less likely to unite 1-3 Skaven clans against us.

I like:
[X] Not Plan TNE
especially. Try that Waaagh! Paper again.
but can also approval
[X] Plan Mors, Gunnars and Ranald
though I'm less sure about that EIC choice.
 
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That Plan Citadel Focus is also a waste of Johann. Make him do something we want him to do.

Citadel Focus basically treats the relocation of the spiders, the deployment of Johann against Clan Mors, and Mathilde working with Johann to poke Clan Mors as one whole synergistic set of actions, where both Magisters run interference against the Skaven of the under-citadel to prevent any chance of Clan Mors interfering with the relocation of the We to the under-citadel. I apologize, but I think you are straw-manning the argument for Citadel focus, which assumes that Mathilde both prioritizes the successful relocation of the We while following up on her scouting of Clan Mors last turn, and her long run concerns about Skaven activity. Of course, you are free to contest that these three motivations of what "Mathilde" wants to do is OOC, but you need to make that case.

Also, I think that some Plan Citadel advocates want to establish a working relationship between Johann and Mathilde, rather than Johann and Mathilde playing a game of cat and mouse and parallel efforts, with regards to coordinating their investigations of the Skaven, so there's also the motivation to bring up precedence here.
 
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Johann only just got back from 'becoming a Magister,' how about we don't just turn him loose immediately and actually assert our authority over him? Doing so early makes it easier to insist on later when it really might matter.
I don't see how that's ever going to matter. If he doesn't follow orders, he can't stay. If he doesn't follow orders when lives are on the line, he probably gets killed by Dwarfs. Either way it's in his best interest to follow orders or find somewhere else he can access Skaven easily.
 
[X] Plan Not Really Preliminary Anymore

Seems like a solid plan. Honestly I mostly just want to get something out of the Asp, it's been so long and there's jugs of rainbow juice just lying around. I don't want them to start fermenting or something.

Unless we can ferment them intentionally. Then I want to know right now, for Science.
 
Poking clan Mor may well provoke them to attack us, even as it weakens them. However, if that poking is confined to robbery and sabotage of the clan we border directly, I don't see how it would provoke them to unite. An actual attack, yes, that would draw a response because that could threaten all 3. Sabotage against Skrye or Moulder, yes. But if we fine and break or steal a few warpfire throwers from Mors, no, they will just be laughed at.

Plus, Johann alone is probably not MORE stealthy and subtle than us keeping an eye on him.
Johann only just got back from 'becoming a Magister,' how about we don't just turn him loose immediately and actually assert our authority over him? Doing so early makes it easier to insist on later when it really might matter.
Personally, I voted for him with the explicit intent of monitoring him while rushing his project to completion, sharing the credit, and then giving him the boot to replace with Panoramia or a new wizard before he can cause any trouble.
 
Johann only just got back from 'becoming a Magister,' how about we don't just turn him loose immediately and actually assert our authority over him? Doing so early makes it easier to insist on later when it really might matter.
Keep in mind that most of his actions are still going to go towards investigation one way or another. Getting him to spend a minority of his time doing his actual job isn't onerous.
 
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