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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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BoneyM said:
Each of your underlings will have things they want to do and thing you want them to do. If those two things intersect it's gravy, but if you find they're doing what they want to do simply because you've got nothing better for them to do you should really be cutting them loose.
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Now I'm getting confused. This implies you're suggesting things, as opposed to the flat out mechanics stuff of the earlier reply which says "they do something on your orders or they leave"
 
Guile said:
There is the concern that we're spending multiple actions kicking over the hive that is a Skaven clan when it's not our job, the dwarves don't know we're doing it, and it might unbalance the web of power hereabouts. We're unlikely to be spotted, because Magisters, but just the idea that the twisty bastards that are Skaven might correctly guess the dwarves (i.e. us) are making a play makes me nervous as hell.

Remember the last time we tried to cause infighting? It worked out because goblins are dumb, but the Moulder rats correctly deduced that we weren't a skaven assassin despite looking exactly like a skaven assassin.
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Which isn't the goal here? Its working with Johann for:
-Building teamwork. He's a peer being told what to do by a less senior party, show him our chops and vice versa so we stop stalking around each other passive aggressively.

-Skaven loot for tech studies. Assuming he's not dumb and has logical reasons for approaching Skaven stuff(he DID make Magister and no College lets you do that without high competency and trust), he has applicable skills. Mathilde on her own would be hard pressed to identify whats most valuable outside of Gromril or written information, but working with Johann means depriving Mors of wargear for our own sides' investigation.

-Opportunistic sabotage and theft will happen regardless if we go there and a good diversion lets the spiders settle in withoht being interrupted.
 
veekie said:
BoneyM said if we wanted to explicitly hit the Skaven together with two Magisters thats what we use.
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And it's still a terrible idea without the rest of the K8P military prepared.
You know who are happy to poke and kill Skaven for us, if left alone?
That's right, other Skaven.

Why does the Conspiracy of Silence exist?
To let the Skaven feel secure enough to war amongst themselves, rather than unite against an external foe.
Lets not give them that foe until we're ready.
 
[X] Plan: Spiders,papers, new underlings and Ranald the Protector.
[X] Have Maximilian write a paper on a subject you dictate.
[X] Current Task: Have Johann investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
-[X] But make clear you'll make available to him maps of Clan Mors underground to help with his work,and free him for next season.
[X] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
[X] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
[X] Teach the We Dwarven semaphore. (1)
[X] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel. (2)
[X] Francesco Caravello has emerged as the leader of the Undumgi. He will likely end up under Dreng's or Princess Edda's control, but you could step in and bring them under yours. 2 organisations cost 1 action per turn. (3)
[X] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar. (4)
-[X] The Protector. Let Ranald the Protector take a second shot at this whole Protecting thing. We have a temple, we have a new people. Let's make it work. Tell the (edited) story of how Ranald protected you from Orckish energies, and how you broke the Idol ritual in that place that is now his Temple, saving who knows how many lives.
[X] Write a paper on Mathilde's Multidimensional Aethyric Projection. (5) -overwork
[X] Write a paper on the We. (5) -overwork.
[X] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
[X] Have additional rooms excavated underneath your Penthouse: -50gc for 2 rooms.
[X] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: Dreng, Marshal of Karak Eight Peaks. Offer to makes some MAP's for him, or do some short scouting runs where he needs them. Maybe you can Enchant one main MAP, to do all of K8P, until they can make their own part sized carvings. And the MAP is better for seeing tunnels. Talk to him about what he'd need for best ability to plan fights.


Logic: Give us our dictation for action economy, do the We paper before the Ambers undercut us, teach them a way to speak that works for large beasts, though it worries me they might start speaking to some of the other factions or hives. Give our new Magister a job with the webs, but promise him time to pursue his passion with out help and blessing next turn.

Get the translation item, because that's useful, resettle the We in space we already scouted, which means under the Citadel. This will put them in the middle of the Karaks and let them hunt under more mountains and switch targets at need. Picking up a second organisation is just good action economy, as it costs us nothing but opporunity costs, and there the choice is underworld or overworld, and I want to try and give Ranald the Protector another chance. Because Ranald did protect us, in our time of need.

And let's get those papers published and get to know Max better. Also, if we are going to be doing scouting now and again, we should get to know the Inner Marshal. Next turn then, the Temple and Research actions can finally go to catching up with our backlog and getting some new spells down.

Using the Gambler on writing papers just didn't feel right.

Also, remember all those folks who were voting for buy the enchanted item for speaking to the spiders last discussion? Remember?

Also, @BoneyM Did you see the spider-man Grounding Rod song?

EDIT: Do remember, we took this job to catch up on our own research. Remember?
 
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veekie said:
Its working with Johann to hunt for Skaven tech.

...and do opportunistic sabotage/theft, but those were happening regardless.

BoneyM said if we wanted to explicitly hit the Skaven together with two Magisters thats what we use.
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That sounds almost as bad as the 'cause mayhem' vote. Especially when you consider BoneyM confirming that Mathilde would opportunistically steal anything valuable enough no matter what.

The purpose of going below the Citadel should be to collect material for Johann's research, try to swipe some valuables, and get up-to-date information for the spiders. Riling up Clan Mors by destroying things or, worse, weakening them enough for Clans Skryre and Moulder to move in are bad things to do until Belegar has the forces ready to take advantage of the situation.
 
Alliterate said:
And it's still a terrible idea without the rest of the K8P military prepared.
You know who are happy to poke and kill Skaven for us, if left alone?
That's right, other Skaven.

Why does the Conspiracy of Silence exist?
To let the Skaven feel secure enough to war amongst themselves, rather than unite against an external foe.
Lets not give them that foe until we're ready.
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Mmm, well to be fair I don't think he meant full on sabotage akin to what we did in Lhune and Nar, rather, what makes it easier to accomplish the goal of quietly nabbing stuff.
 
Alliterate said:
And it's still a terrible idea without the rest of the K8P military prepared.
You know who are happy to poke and kill Skaven for us, if left alone?
That's right, other Skaven.

Why does the Conspiracy of Silence exist?
To let the Skaven feel secure enough to war amongst themselves, rather than unite against an external foe.
Lets not give them that foe until we're ready.
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I don't think the Conspiracy of Silence remotely applies once dwarves are involved.
 
primemountain said:
Plan: Spiders,papers, new underlings and Ranald the Protector.
[X] Have Maximilian write a paper on a subject you dictate.
[X] Current Task: Have Johann investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
-[X] But make clear you'll make available to him maps of Clan Mors underground to help with his work,and free him for next season.
[X] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
[X] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
[X] Teach the We Dwarven semaphore. (1)
[X] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel. (2)
[X] Francesco Caravello has emerged as the leader of the Undumgi. He will likely end up under Dreng's or Princess Edda's control, but you could step in and bring them under yours. 2 organisations cost 1 action per turn. (3)
[X] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar. (4)
-[X] The Protector. Let Ranald the Protector take a second shot at this whole Protecting thing. We have a temple, we have a new people. Let's make it work. Tell the (edited) story of how Ranald protected you from Orckish energies, and how you broke the Idol ritual in that place that is now his Temple, saving who knows how many lives.
[X] Write a paper on Mathilde's Multidimensional Aethyric Projection. (5) -overwork
[X] Write a paper on the We. (5) -overwork.
[X] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
[X] Have additional rooms excavated underneath your Penthouse: -50gc for 2 rooms.
[X] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: Dreng, Marshal of Karak Eight Peaks. Offer to makes some MAP's for him, or do some short scouting runs where he needs them. Maybe you can Enchant one main MAP, to do all of K8P, until they can make their own part sized carvings. And the MAP is better for seeing tunnels. Talk to him about what he'd need for best ability to plan fights.
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Your plan isn't formatted properly.

It would also be helpful if the creators of Turn 20 Down with Clan Mors, Not Plan TNE, and Johann Adventurer put "Plan" or "Plan:" at the start of their vote for the purpose of automatic tally collation.
 
[EDIT: Originally voted for Not Plan TNE, swapping that out]

I'm not too keen on teaching the We written Reikspiel before we've got a better handle on what makes them tick, or before we see how the other Reikspiel-speaking residents interact with giant spiders; that's something I feel we can leave until later. Semaphore seems like the safer bet, since it will let the We communicate critical information with dwarves (who are, on the whole, more straightforward than the 'umies.).

I've just got this mental image of a human criminal sidling up to a We and going "hey, wanna help me dispose of this totally not murdered corpse?" and the We only understanding that they've got a new way to get snacks or something.

Bonding with Wolf is good stuff; also getting to know Gunnar better and dealing with the human burial rites issue discussed this turn. The only thing this lacks is snake juice, but I feel like that'll keep for at least one more turn.
 
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
Now I'm getting confused. This implies you're suggesting things, as opposed to the flat out mechanics stuff of the earlier reply which says "they do something on your orders or they leave"
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I think the confusion is there's two types of questions that sound similar but get very different answers.

There have been questions that are trying to find a way to collect wizards like pokemon without eating into the action economy. The answer to all of those questions is a very straightforward "you have to manage them and there is no way to do that without it costing you actions".

There are also questions along the lines of 'will they stop liking us if we make them do work'. The answer to that is a more of a shrugging "they are on the K8P payroll, it's stupid not to give them work, but if you really want to you can just give them money for nothing I guess? but you don't get your action back so it's really dumb, you really should give them work or fire them."
 
shepsquared said:
I don't think the Conspiracy of Silence remotely applies once dwarves are involved.
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Hah. That rather misses the point- of course it doesn't apply here directly.
But the Conspiracy of Silence exploits a known trait of the Skaven- that absent an outside threat, they will tend to fight amongst themselves.

Poking them too hard, too obviously before we're ready risks uniting Mors, Skryre and Moulder against us.
Doing that without the full backing and agreement of Belegar and the war leaders and adequate K8P preparation... is somewhere north of recklessly negligent.
 
Blorp said:
[X] Not Plan TNE
-[X] Have Maximilian attempt to write a paper (choose which from 'Publish or Perish')
--[X] Write a paper on the Waaagh energy and magic witnessed during the Expedition.
-[X] Current Task: Have Johann investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
-[X] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
-[X] Teach the We Dwarven semaphore.
-[X] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[X] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
--[X] Gambler bonus
-[X] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
-[X] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: Gunnar, human burial rites.
-[X] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[X] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)
-[X] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to.

I'm not too keen on teaching the We written Reikspiel before we've got a better handle on what makes them tick, or before we see how the other Reikspiel-speaking residents interact with giant spiders; that's something I feel we can leave until later. Semaphore seems like the safer bet, since it will let the We communicate critical information with dwarves (who are, on the whole, more straightforward than the 'umies.).

I've just got this mental image of a human criminal sidling up to a We and going "hey, wanna help me dispose of this totally not murdered corpse?" and the We only understanding that they've got a new way to get snacks or something.

Bonding with Wolf is good stuff; also getting to know Gunnar better. The only thing this lacks is snake juice, but I feel like that'll keep for at least one more turn.
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This is incredibly unlikely, since the spiders are going to be in a secure area with restricted access. Remember that the Citadel is garrisoned by dwarves.
 
[X] Plan Mors, Gunnars and Ranald
-[X][MAX] Current Task: Have Maximilian investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
-[X][JOHANN] Allow him to spend all his time investigating Clan Mors
-[X][EIC] Instil corporate policy: long-term financial good of the Empire.
-[X][PENTHOUSE] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[X][SOCIAL] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)
-[X][COIN] Use Gambler - apply to Help We Establish their Nest
-[X] Deliver King Belegar's request to the College for a translation item (does not cost an action).
-[X] Teach the We Dwarven semaphore.
-[X] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
--[X] Use Gambler here
-[X] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
-[X] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: Gunnars

This is going to be my ideal plan. We have three actions focused on sorting out the spider situation which is more than enough; we have Max working out the properties of spiders web which is beneficial for both military purposes and financial as food >> spiders >> silk beats out a thousand mile journey surrounded by enemies then back again tremendously, it has us help establish their new nest in a safe location with easy access to a food source while freeing up the Chiselwards for dwarves, and it has Mathilde teach the We Dwarven semaphore as it's a language that seems much more suited for a spiders physiology and Mathilde already has an understanding of them, while following it up with the commission of an translation item. As I've previously stated, while Mathilde asking would be easier, I feel that the benefit the College would receive from having a Dwarven King commission an item from the College of Magic more than outweighs it.

As others have mentioned, letting Johann have a pop at Clan Mors is likely to synergy with the We moving below the citadel so I'm all for that. Mors tends to have higher quality equipment, and as shown some even possess Gromril, so it's more than worthwhile and he should be more than prepared for it given he's a Magister who's prepared for this for years.

I've chosen the EIC Instill Policy action for the Empire as the primary cause of concern really, given Mathilde was tempted to disband it due to it. The Dwarven option while needed, I feel is not as urgent. This really isn't a hard option for me though, so if enough prefer the other I'd more than switch.

The Penthouse has a tower built, and with the clarification that the bonuses that we receive from whatever we put into it are only received the turn after I've delayed the Wisdom Asp action until then.

I have two social actions in this plan, one is spending time with our familiar and the other is utilizing the great opportunity given this update (and likely inspired by discussion before it) to interact more with Gunnars given we now have Morrite Lore Advanced. The first helps develop the bond with our familiar more which can lead to new abilities, or less magically just have our wolf develop new skills as he'd be of aid in tracking. The second builds relations with another counciler, a user of a great sword for training for our new weapon and so we can hopefully have a trait by then, and perhaps an exchange of soul lore if we roll well enough.

The final action is spent establishing our shrine while we're still early into the settlement, so it can start to influence the culture while it's still developing and notably without any crime (with the exception of passionate crimes I imagine), and at the same time take advantage of our crazy roll where six thousand people wink wink nudge nudge participated in a Ranald ceremony.
 
Alliterate said:
Hah. That rather misses the point- of course it doesn't apply here directly.
But the Conspiracy of Silence exploits a known trait of the Skaven- that absent an outside threat, they will tend to fight amongst themselves.

Poking them before we're ready risks uniting Mors, Skryre and Moulder against us.
Doing that without the full backing and agreement of Belegar and the war leaders and adequate K8P preparation... is somewhere north of recklessly negligent.
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Yeah, rule one of fighting Skaven is don't provoke them until you think you can crush them.
 
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