Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[SuperSonicSound]

'Only 10 to 15', i.e. 'only an almost literally legendary weapon'.

I know, I know, I completely get the whole opportunity cost and not wanting to have to replace it and how having a super-lethal weapon is never a bad thing and all the other arguments for going all in on a sword, but at the same time... I can't help but laugh whenever someone uses the phrase 'only' when describing a weapon that's in the same tier as a Runefang (or possibly higher, if the '1 favour = 10 points' description is taken literally).

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I mean you can make a weapon out of dwarf runes that costs more than 100 points and it'll be much worse than a Runefang part of the cost of those items is baked into the hero and lord characters you give them to.

Like here's the closest aproximation of what a normal rune smith lord could make for a runefang.





That's 125 points, it wounds on a 2+ instead of being automatic and a 3+ if the enemy is using magical armour regardless of if they get the armour save, oh and you can only have one master rune any way.

We were also told that none of the dwarves alive could make a Runefang. The point i'm making is that the army book runes are all we can look forward to with a 10 point expenditure and whilst there's a sword combo I could make there that would be nice it's nothing compared to getting something like Kraggs personal rune or what ever else they could make.

If we didn't have our belt and were offered it now, would you think we shouldn't bother with it?

People seem to forget how awesome even a 15 point item is.

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I'm not saying the belt is bad, but the opportunity cost of not spending more when you can to get something that's even better is explicitly an issue the Belt is great, how much better would it be if we could have spent more?

 

[SITB]

@BoneyM, did I miss it or did the EIC action didn't appear?

And on a general non-question note, don't Skaven use dhar to cast? Does it mean Mathilde can now bully the two most prominent enemy faction's spell-casters?

 

[Alratan]

'Only 10 to 15', i.e. 'only an almost literally legendary weapon'.

I know, I know, I completely get the whole opportunity cost and not wanting to have to replace it and how having a super-lethal weapon is never a bad thing and all the other arguments for going all in on a sword, but at the same time... I can't help but laugh whenever someone uses the phrase 'only' when describing a weapon that's in the same tier as a Runefang (or possibly higher, if the '1 favour = 10 points' description is taken literally).

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I doubt it will be in the same tier as a runefang, given what they took to make.

Also, it's not a '100 point weapon' it's a '100 points worth of runes from the dwarf book'. They're not the same thing, as magic items would be priced differently for different races, given the stats of their characters. A hundred point weapon for the Empire is better than a hundred point weapon for the dwarves as dwarf heroes are better.

If we didn't have our belt and were offered it now, would you think we shouldn't bother with it?

People seem to forget how awesome even a 15 point item is.

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BEcause it pretty much locks us out of ever getting a better weapon later, when we may really need it. If we come face to face with a Rogue Idol, which we were one roll away from, we're likely to be really grateful if we have the better weapon.

 

[Codex]

Can someone remind me who are the people who have read the unabridged, unedited Liber Mortis and are currently still alive in this setting?

 

[Mopman43]

On the runic item vote, how would people feel about voting for a bastard sword rather than a greatsword?

IIRC Boney has confirmed that all our skills would work with a bastard sword and it keeps us able to get/use a staff as well in the future.

EDIT: Plus Mathilde is small so it doesn't really comprimise our "tiny wizard with huge sword" chic!

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If memory serves, all runic weapons are hand-weapons; we are voting for a Greatsword, but it would be fluffed as a Bastard Sword.

 

[Sinsystems]

Say I wonder if our anti-Dhar knowledge would be useful against the Skaven, since odds are their spellcasting uses it and they use Warpstone for bloody everything so I'd imagine that is a vulnerability.

 

[chocolote12]

(or possibly higher, if the '1 favour = 10 points' description is taken literally).

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I don't think we can. We know that the Runefangs were forged by a Master who was old when Kragg was young, in a time when magic was much stronger, over multiple years, using storms of magic and daemon blood and dragon's fire and such.

I would say that we might want to mention that, if possible, we'd like to be able to use it as a staff?
Mind, not a dealbreaker, but it'd certainly be a very useful option.

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I think we'd need to rediscover the Rune of Sorcery first. Runes basically grind Color Magic down to its constituent magical atoms and use them as pure energy, which is the exact opposite of what we need a staff to do.

On the runic item vote, how would people feel about voting for a bastard sword rather than a greatsword?

IIRC Boney has confirmed that all our skills would work with a bastard sword and it keeps us able to get/use a staff as well in the future.

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We know that if we go for a 'greatsword' it's already going to be fluffed that way, to keep in line with Rune Weapons always being hand weapons.

 

[noliar]

[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a welcome addition to the multispecies community of Karak Eight Peaks.
-[X] [SPIDER] Given a few decades to test the military alliance first, of course.

[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant
[X] [ARMOUR] It should be returned to the Hold it was stolen from, to build strong ties among the Karaz Ankor.

[] [Rune] Bastard Sword
-[] 16 favour
would be my pick. That's the favour for the East Gate + Karag Lhune, both cases where we used our sword in open battle beside the Dawi with some nice sneaking, assassination and sabotage between. Showcases the things we might need it for, is a nice themed grouping so we can name the blade, takes us into Kragg/ Thorek at least as cool as the belt territory and leaves us plenty of DF for hero tutors, special tower additions, books etc. without having to win another war first.
[ ] [ENCHANTMENT] College Grounding Rod
We might learn to make them ourself eventually but having one now both for use and to study is worth some favour.

 

[TotallyNotEvil]

Folks, in regards to the armor and weapon vote, I would like to highly this:

Yeah, as insanely valuable as gromril is, it's worth even more as a symbol.

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And the fact that Boney has highlighted that weapons are what legends are built around, and that it's perfectly possible that a 25 favor sword would be made out of the commemorative gromril if such an option is chosen.

And then, consider that the favor we earned from Karag Lhune, Karag Nar and the Citadel tally up to exactly twenty five.

And then, consider that the Expedition is known as "a tale of Belengar Ironhammer, Kragg the Grim and Mathilde Weber".

The dwarf King reclaims his long-lost hold with the assistance of an unexpected human hero and comissions the other cornerstone of the conquest, a legendary runesmith, to fashion a symbol of the Karak's rebirth in the form of a gift for human hero whom so assited him.

This is the perfect set-up.

It's our chance of striking our legend into stone.

 

[Abby Normal]

57 K8P gold coins, helpfully pre-tithed.

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Ahh, so it already got put in for this turn, makes sense--for the 'don't see on character sheet', though, i'd meant more 'i dont see the income listed'...but then now that i think about it i dont remember if you listed the 'earns 50 (45 post tithe) gold a turn from job' income from stirland way back when so nevermind on that front

 

[DragonParadox]

Can someone remind me who are the people who have read the unabridged, unedited Liber Mortis and are currently still alive in this setting?

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Literally no one, even if the Grand Theogonist goes and reads the Empire's copy that is still worse than ours.

 

[Zero Gravitas]

I agree but we do not have a means to communicate yet. Why not go military ally first then later integration?

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Military allying would require even better communication to work at full potential.

If it was with Mathilde and small number of people, then sure. If it was just matter of military aliance, then sure. But a part of society? Especially dwarf society, with dwarves that considers spiders an enemy and fights them? Just recall spider incident on road to K8P. You don't want to have spider neighbour next door.

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The spiders joining K8P society doesn't suddenly mean there's going to be a spider in each house.

They'll have a nest somewhere, communicate and trade through Mathilde and other wizarding intermediaries or through select humans or dwarves tasked with taking care of them and maybe have a representative/stall in a more public place for trade once the We gets the hang of it.

 

[Unstorpable]

[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be allowed to scutter off into the Underway, never to be seen again.

[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant

[X] [ARMOUR] It should be worn by the first Ironbreaker of the reborn Karak Eight Peaks

 

[avatar11792]

[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a welcome addition to the multispecies community of Karak Eight Peaks.

[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant

[X] [ARMOUR] It should be reforged into a worthy commemoration of the Karak's rebirth.

[X] [RUNE] 25 Favor Bastard Sword

[X] [ENCHANTMENT] An item enchanted with Talk With Beast to give to the spiders (3 favors)

[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Romance Novels, Extensive/Esoteric Linguistics, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Romance Novels, Extensive Linguistics, Extensive Daemons. Brettonian Texts: Extensive Romance Novels. Tilean Texts: Extensive Romance Novels.

 

[spiritualatheist]

Folks, in regards to the armor and weapon vote, I would like to highly this:

And the fact that Boney has highlighted that weapons are what legends are built around, and that it's perfectly possible that a 25 favor sword would be made out of the commemorative gromril if such an option is chosen.

And then, consider that the favor we earned from Karag Lhune, Karag Nar and the Citadel tally up to exactly twenty five.

And then, consider that the Expedition is "a tale of Belengar Ironhammer, Kragg the Grim and Mathilde Weber".

The dwarf King reclaims his long-lost hold with the assistance of an unexpected human hero, and comissions the other cornerstone of the conquest, a legendary runesmith, to fashion a symbol of the Karak's rebirth in the form of a gift for human hero whom so assited him.

This is the perfect set-up.

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I could definitely go for this, yeah.

 

[Reynal]

[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the greenskins.
[X] [SPIDER] The We can be a powerful military ally against the Skaven.

They've got potential, and while it's too early to think about integrating them working together has strong mutually beneficial aspects. Depending on the range of their hive mind they could also make amazing scouts and could potentially work quite well with the Rangers if communication issues are cleared out.

Given that non-hostile interaction with not-self is novel to them, I expect ongoing interaction to instill at least some of the practical cultural values. Ironically, I could see Dwarven memory/grudge traditions and strong community values making them eventually get along better with each other...

[X] [UNDUMGI] Francesco Caravello, Tilean ex-merchant

Comprehensive leader that covers a variety of weak spots. The others look good too, but he's my mild preference. As a Grey Wizard, this is also the sort of situation that it is entirely appropriate for us to meddle in as well.

[X] [ARMOUR] Make no recommendation
[X] [ARMOUR] It should be reforged into a worthy commemoration of the Karak's rebirth.

Would prefer the first, as this is potentially sensitive and our main duty here in our non-advisor role would be to avoid causing issues with the Dwarves, but I do feel like turning a relic of the past into something new would be an extraordinarily strong political statement and symbol for the movement Belegar is pushing.


[X] [RUNE] 25 Favour Sword

Go big and don't go home.

[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Linguistics, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Romance Novels, Extensive Linguistics, Extensive Daemons. Brettonian Texts: Extensive Romance Novels. Tilean Texts: Extensive Romance Novels.

GO BIG AND DON'T GO HOME.

[X] [LIBRARY] Imperial Texts: Extensive/Esoteric Skaven, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Greenskin Magic, Antiquarian Grey Magic (2 College Favor), Extensive Amber Magic, Extensive/Esoteric Linguistics, Extensive Warpstone, Extensive Morr, Extensive Karaz Ankor. Dwarf Texts: Extensive Greenskin Magic, Extensive Skaven Magic, Extensive Linguistics, Extensive Daemons

 

[DragonParadox]

Military allying would require even better communication to work at full potential.

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True, but at less than full potential it would be less likely to blow up in our faces than putting grudge-happy dwarfs, superstitious humans and giant spiders who can't communicate in close proximity.

 

[ctulhuslp]

Folks, in regards to the armor and weapon vote, I would like to highly this:

And the fact that Boney has highlighted that weapons are what legends are built around, and that it's perfectly possible that a 25 favor sword would be made out of the commemorative gromril if such an option is chosen.

And then, consider that the favor we earned from Karag Lhune, Karag Nar and the Citadel tally up to exactly twenty five.

And then, consider that the Expedition is "a tale of Belengar Ironhammer, Kragg the Grim and Mathilde Weber".

The dwarf King reclaims his long-lost hold with the assistance of an unexpected human hero, and comissions the other cornerstone of the conquest, a legendary runesmith, to fashion a symbol of the Karak's rebirth in the form of a gift for human hero whom so assited him.

This is the perfect set-up.

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Well, if we put it to use worth the legend.

Given that, well...this entire update we've not pulled it out at all, for example, I am not sure we will. Not because we we don't do shit, but because in our line of work we can easily spend year(s) not seeing combat - all while doing productive work.

Not sure whether that'd make dorfs grumpy. But at least this turn, favours invested into books were more important than our swording, and I imagine it will not necessarily change with a better sword.

That's something to consider: depending on how we play out next parts of the game, spending all 25 on library might turn out to be more useful than on sword.

 

[Boney]

@BoneyM how much favor would it cost to commission an item with the speak-to-animals enchantment?

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3 iirc, and that's assuming you're left holding the bill instead of Belegar working something out with the College.

@BoneyM , is it possible to request the books on languages in general and/or on language teaching in particular? In light of next turn being about figuring out how to talk to spiders.

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Reikspiel is covered by Empire books, Khazalid by Dwarf books.

@BoneyM, did I miss it or did the EIC action didn't appear?

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It did, just before Anton stole the spotlight.

And on a lesser note, don't Skaven use dhar to cast? Does it mean Mathilde can now bully the two most prominent enemy faction's spell-casters?

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Sort of half dhar, half divine.

 

[SuperSonicSound]

Folks, in regards to the armor and weapon vote, I would like to highly this:

And the fact that Boney has highlighted that weapons are what legends are built around, and that it's perfectly possible that a 25 favor sword would be made out of the commemorative gromril if such an option is chosen.

And then, consider that the favor we earned from Karag Lhune, Karag Nar and the Citadel tally up to exactly twenty five.

And then, consider that the Expedition is "a tale of Belengar Ironhammer, Kragg the Grim and Mathilde Weber".

The dwarf King reclaims his long-lost hold with the assistance of an unexpected human hero, and comissions the other cornerstone of the conquest, a legendary runesmith, to fashion a symbol of the Karak's rebirth in the form of a gift for human hero whom so assited him.

This is the perfect set-up.

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Yea it makes for a hell of a legend.

 

[NSMS]

I mean you can make a weapon out of dwarf runes that costs more than 100 points and it'll be much worse than a Runefang part of the cost of those items is baked into the hero and lord characters you give them to.

Like here's the closest aproximation of what a normal rune smith lord could make for a runefang.





That's 125 points, it wounds on a 2+ instead of being automatic and a 3+ if the enemy is using magical armour regardless of if they get the armour save, oh and you can only have one master rune any way.

We were also told that none of the dwarves alive could make a Runefang. The point i'm making is that the army book runes are all we can look forward to with a 10 point expenditure and whilst there's a sword combo I could make there that would be nice it's nothing compared to getting something like Kraggs personal rune or what ever else they could make.

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I doubt it will be in the same tier as a runefang, given what they took to make.

Also, it's not a '100 point weapon' it's a '100 points worth of runes from the dwarf book'. They're not the same thing, as magic items would be priced differently for different races, given the stats of their characters. A hundred point weapon for the Empire is better than a hundred point weapon for the dwarves as dwarf heroes are better.

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I don't think we can. We know that the Runefangs were forged by a Master who was old when Kragg was young, in a time when magic was much stronger, over multiple years, using storms of magic and daemon blood and dragon's fire and such.

I think we'd need to rediscover the Rune of Sorcery first. Runes basically grind Color Magic down to its constituent magical atoms and use them as pure energy, which is the exact opposite of what we need a staff to do.

We know that if we go for a 'greatsword' it's already going to be fluffed that way, to keep in line with Rune Weapons always being hand weapons.

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I did say 'if' you take it literally. But basically... a 15 favour weapon would, unquestionably, an absurdly lethal and killy weapon, with properties that rival or match those of legendary weapons. Describing such a thing using the phrase 'only', regardless of why you're doing so or what you're hoping for out of a weapon, amuses me.

Can someone remind me who are the people who have read the unabridged, unedited Liber Mortis and are currently still alive in this setting?

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I suspect that depends on how you define 'alive'.

 

[Quest]

3 iirc, and that's assuming you're left holding the bill instead of Belegar working something out with the College.

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I'm considering one for our personal use. Would adding a function to allow Wolf to use it directly without having us cast it cost extra or come as part of the base spell?

EDIT: And where should we look for non-verbal communications like Morse code?

 

[NSMS]

3 iirc, and that's assuming you're left holding the bill instead of Belegar working something out with the College.

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How much would a 'let a hive mind of animals speak to humans/dwarves/whatevers' item cost?

 

[Sinsystems]

Say @BoneyM how does our Dhar unraveling work with Warpstone? I'd assume that we'd essentially cause the stuff to explode as all the Dhar starts destroying itself or something like that.

 

[10ebbor10]

The injection sites showed a marked reduction in sensitivity that lasted long after the other effects had faded, suggesting a degree of permanent damage to the nervous system

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As an aside, the spiders can do Botox.

Say @BoneyM how does our Dhar unraveling work with Warpstone? I'd assume that we'd essentially cause the stuff to explode as all the Dhar starts destroying itself or something like that.

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For the sake of the world, I hope that Warpstone is more stable. Otherwise we may have some issues if we try anti-Dharring in SKaven strongholds.