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People keep saying "Hand EIC off to Hochlander". Hell No!

He is managing it for us, currently. The arguments against that are many and varied, from his position, to the nature of the job, to the different levels of trust and respect (on the various lines of Mathilde, Wilhelmina, Rosvita, The Bursar and so on) his rank to hold the position (a Grey LM holding the economic sineves of Stirland is fine when that Grey LM used to be Spymaster and is friends with the current Elector Count).

But most of all?

The EIC is Eike's legacy. She is free to refuse it, if it turns out she is actually completely incompatible with it, or doesn't want it (which, from what we know about her, is not currently the case).

But yeah. Management of the EIC is my planned graduation to Magister gift to Eike. Sure, we'd still like to be kept in the loop, in an overseeing position and as part owner... but by now, Eike should be aware that if she takes up those duties and does well, she'll get the shares too, in our Will and Testament. Who else are you going to trust the full operation of one third of Stirland's economy to? Espetially once Wilhelima is too old for the job? The Hochlander? Don't be absurd. He is an aide and a trusted agent (2nd in command of the intelligence operations).

But he is hamstrung in College politics by his perpetual status, and hamstrung in his ability to deal with Magical intel threats by his lack of natural talent for the esoteric. He does excellently relying upon and working with existing Empire structures... but the next time someone needs to infiltrate a Vampire stronghold alone and murder lots of things in it to avoid ruinous army battles, he cannot perform. Mat can. Eike might, some day. Same goes for Skaven and Chaos threats.

The Hochlander is a great garrison commander. But if you need someone to go out into the Dark Woods, or the buried Crypt, and murder the shit out of some ancient horror, well? He does it by calling on and arraing allies to deal with it.

Faced with the Colledge of Necromancy, or a Skaven Infestation, his response is a Call to Arms.

Mathilde Weber murders the first herself, and deals with the second by making them all fight each other, then commanding/leading the army that goes to finish off what remains. Eike might not be as lethal, but she'll have her own tricks.

...which reminds me, we really should spare some AP on Eike directly, before her time to Journey. Can someone remind me, how long has Eike been Mat's apprentice, and how long does apprenticenhip usually last? Better yet, how old and spry is Wilhelmina?

Because I'd like to spend at least one AP sending Eike over to learn from her directly, now that she has a handle on her magic. Preferablly in the very next turn, or while we're of to Elf lands vacation stuff.
 
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It does not change anything in Empire enchanting capabilities, because Orbs of Sorcery, while one of a kind, are not unique in function.

And the rest of our revelations are of a more nerd nature. The pondering of orbs is secondary to pondering of new insights into nature of winds, their properties and (one) method of creation of liminal realms.

EDIT: What i am trying to say is that you are equating a breakthrough in understanding quantum physics with manufacturing capability of an automobile factory. The two are not really related.
Just because Orbs of sorcery can be replaced with multiple power stones does not mean the ability to turn multiple power stones into multiple orbs of sorcery is not a major breakthrough in ability to power things.
Sure gathering AV is going to take time, but once you have it, you can use it to turn 8 power stones into 8 orbs of sorcery, and those orbs can do the work of, i dunno, 64 power stones, assuming each is worth 8 power stones.

And equating what i am suggesting to automobily factory is, quite frankly, ridiculous.
Warships are not cars, nor am i suggesting mass production for common market.
 
At the very least, I won't even consider giving up control over the EIC until we've established an auditors division. Like, that's vital, it's what'll ensure the EIC won't turn into a large scale Stirlandian League when we're gone. I get that we've had other cool stuff to do with it, like the fog bridge or the ithilmar, but it's LONG overdue.
 
You're right, but I almost wish that it had somehow been feasible for you to defer this until the arc-pivot, like how you had with the transition between K8P and Waystone Project.
I mean, we can vote for [*] Save the boon until we choose our next project. It's a valid vote. I'm voting for it.
But yeah. Management of the EIC is my planned graduation to Magister gift to Eike. Sure, we'd still like to be kept in the loop, in an overseeing position and as part owner... but by now, Eike should be aware that if she takes up those duties and does well, she'll get the shares too, in our Will and Testament. Who else are you going to trust the full operation of one third of Stirland's economy to? Espetially once Wilhelima is too old for the job? The Hochlander? Don't be absurd. He is an aide and a trusted agent (2nd in command of the intelligence operations).
I think some wires have gotten crossed.
[ ] EIC: Completely hand over management of the EIC intelligence apparatus to the Hochlander.
This option doesn't give up our ownership stakes in the EIC itself, it simply tells the Hochlander "I am too busy to run the spy network side of things, you are now handling it for me." The things you're concerned about are not issues that would arise from taking this choice -- the only reason to keep the EIC half-action is if we think we need Mathilde to still be involved in the day-to-day intel work, not just a silent partner in the background. Which is a valid position to hold, especially depending on what we do in the future! But I think you're getting worried about something nobody is actually advocating.
Can someone remind me, how long has Eike been Mat's apprentice, and how long does apprenticenhip usually last? Better yet, how old and spry is Wilhelmina?
We've only had her as an apprentice for five turns, 2.5 years. She spent 2.5-3 years as a Junior Apprentice, so the "normal" length of apprenticeship would have her with us for about ten more turns (ending around T53/T54), though we can push her out of the nest a little sooner if we think she's ready, which I suspect we will.

We don't have a hard age for Wilhelmina but I think she's probably in her fifties-sixties?
 
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Just because Orbs of sorcery can be replaced with multiple power stones does not mean the ability to turn multiple power stones into multiple orbs of sorcery is not a major breakthrough in ability to power things.
Sure gathering AV is going to take time, but once you have it, you can use it to turn 8 power stones into 8 orbs of sorcery, and those orbs can do the work of, i dunno, 64 power stones, assuming each is worth 8 power stones.

And equating what i am suggesting to automobily factory is, quite frankly, ridiculous.
Warships are not cars, nor am i suggesting mass production for common market.
There's also the distinct probability that a single unitary source of folding spindling and mutilating reality has a better result than regulating the effect of multiple power stones, and may be harder for someone with a bright idea to poke to cause a failure cascade. Strong as the weakest link, etc.
 
If people are voting for a personal skyship mostly because they want them to proliferate, maybe skip the intermediate step and simply ask for our boon to be:

[ ] Have the Colleges establish a sky-shipyard

We would never personally receive our own skyship from this as they'd be going to people who would better use them (on top of 'no free lunch' of getting two boons for one), and the results of such a shipyard would be individually lesser than the Wanderer. But it would get you more of what you're saying you want than going the roundabout route of trying to advertise how great skyships are by using one as a personal vehicle.

The current skyship option is Mathilde having her own blinged up one-of-a-kind flying ship (and that's fun, if not my kind of fun). There's absolutely no guarantee that the Colleges will find the investment of man-decades of enchanter hours from the most skilled workers of all eight institutes into a similar boondoggle ever worthwhile again unless we're spending our political capital to see them set up the long-term infrastructure. If you want the Empire to eventually have a dozen sky-Volvos rather than a single sky-Ferrari, vote for that.
 
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Just because Orbs of sorcery can be replaced with multiple power stones does not mean the ability to turn multiple power stones into multiple orbs of sorcery is not a major breakthrough in ability to power things.
Sure gathering AV is going to take time, but once you have it, you can use it to turn 8 power stones into 8 orbs of sorcery, and those orbs can do the work of, i dunno, 64 power stones, assuming each is worth 8 power stones.

And equating what i am suggesting to automobily factory is, quite frankly, ridiculous.
Warships are not cars, nor am i suggesting mass production for common market.
You are taking the metaphor too far. All i meant is that discovery of extremely outlying new principles does not necessarily translate in abilities to do things with them, much less things that are not directly related.

And no, i really doubt this is some kind of power-plant revolution. Sure, it makes accumulation of powering stones faster because every year we can make one (i think, i don't remember how fast AV accumulates or how much it took to make Orbs) batch of powerstones but that still does not change capabilities of the colleges in heights they can reach, merely their potential output.
 
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You are taking the metaphor too far. All i meant is that discovery of extremely outlying new principles does not necessarily translate in abilities to do things with them.

And no, i really doubt this is some kind of power-plant revolution. Sure, it makes accumulation of powering stones faster because every year we can make one (i think, i don't remember how fast AV accumulates or how much it took to make Orbs) batch of powerstones but that still does not change capabilities of the colleges in heights they can reach, merely their potential output.
We have the means to do things with them, Empire has had Orbs of Sorcery for couple hundred years, they know how to do things with them, the problem is that they have had so few of them.

And they also have the ability to make flying boats, and i can't imagine how being able to produce more orbs of sorcery is not going to make it easier to power the damn things.
 
Sure, it makes accumulation of powering stones faster because every year we can make one (i think, i don't remember how fast AV accumulates or how much it took to make Orbs) batch of powerstones
If we do nothing else with our AV, every four years we can make Orbs of Sorcery, because it takes eight gallons and we get one gallon per turn.
 
We have the means to do things with them, Empire has had Orbs of Sorcery for couple hundred years, they know how to do things with them, the problem is that they have had so few of them.

And they also have the ability to make flying boats, and i can't imagine how being able to produce more orbs of sorcery is not going to make it easier to power the damn things.
Yes? But again. Orbs of Sorcery do not bring anything new to the table. Whatever enchantments that use orb of sorcery would do, it could've done so previously with Power Stones. The Switching the Sky that Algard implemented needs four power stones. It could do it with one orb of sorcery, but having orb of sorcery does not somehow elevate the posibilities of what Algard could have done. Because he simply could use power stones.

EDIT:
If we do nothing else with our AV, every four years we can make Orbs of Sorcery, because it takes eight gallons and we get one gallon per turn.
Thanks. And yeah that means its even less than i thought lol. In that time, you get an approximate of 48 power stones per wind, assuming that there is at least one person per order that churns them out at any given time. And i think its safe to assume that, because there are explicitly people that churn them out for favour to bankroll their own experiments.

So yeah. It does not bring anything new in realms of possibility except, perhaps, increased quantity. The same can't be said for our research into liminal realms and discovery of strange new properties of magic. Which is the actual thing we did. Orbs of Sorcery are just one of the potential manifestations of that shattering insight.

EDIT2:
Actually, there is one thing they bring to the table that is new. If you are insane enough to actually unravel one, you can attempt to cast cataclysm spell outside of storm of magic. Which is now viable because you can actually eventually replace the orb but like.... that is an incredibly niche use, and it, again, does not expand the possibilities of enchanting.
 
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Yes? But again. Orbs of Sorcery do not bring anything new to the table. Whatever enchantments that use orb of sorcery would do, it could've done so previously with Power Stones. The Switching the Sky that Algard implemented needs four power stones. It could do it with one orb of sorcery, but having orb of sorcery does not somehow elevate the posibilities of what Algard could have done. Because he simply could use power stones.
They bring more of the same.
Ability to make more of some of the most powerful weapons/tools the college's have.
Yes, Algard used 4 powerstones, i'm not sure why you think this is in anyway relevant.
Just because someone can use number of small generators/engines instead of one big one does not mean the ability to make big engines is not valuable.
 
They bring more of the same.
Ability to make more of some of the most powerful weapons/tools the college's have.
Yes, Algard used 4 powerstones, i'm not sure why you think this is in anyway relevant.
Just because someone can use number of small generators/engines instead of one big one does not mean the ability to make big engines is not valuable.
Sure. But it does not bring any new capabilities? Like thats the part we agree on right? Because there is nothing new Empire can do with this. Sure, it might make fielding three luminarks instead of two more viable, but it does not actually make the luminarks somehow more tricked out.
 
Sure. But it does not bring any new capabilities? Like thats the part we agree on right? Because there is nothing new Empire can do with this. Sure, it might make fielding three luminarks instead of two more viable, but it does not actually make the luminarks somehow more tricked out.
It makes them able to do more.
One of the things they can do is flying warships.
So far they have not, why, i don't know, possibly because it takes shit load of powerstones, maybe they never really got down to designing one, maybe they lacked the expertise.
Well, those three are now getting changed.

So maybe they decide to build some flying warships.
Or maybe they decide to make more OoS powered battle altars.
Or maybe they make flying warships nad put OoS powered battle altars on them.
Who knows.

So, again, i have no idea what your argument is, other than that you personally do not like flying ships.
 
It makes them able to do more.
One of the things they can do is flying warships.
So far they have not, why, i don't know, possibly because it takes shit load of powerstones, maybe they never really got down to designing one, maybe they lacked the expertise.
Well, those three are now getting changed.

So maybe they decide to build some flying warships.
Or maybe they decide to make more OoS powered battle altars.
Or maybe they make flying warships nad put OoS powered battle altars on them.
Who knows.

So, again, i have no idea what your argument is, other than that you personally do not like flying ships.
They could've always made flying ships, because Morbs do nothing that powerstones cannot.

You are right, i don't like the flying ship for wide variety of problems, but your insistence of making it something it is not instead of focusing on all the things it actually is is making me actively hate it.
 
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If people are voting for a personal skyship mostly because they want them to proliferate, maybe skip the intermediate step and simply ask for our boon to be:

[ ] Have the Colleges establish a sky-shipyard

We would never personally receive our own skyship from this as they'd be going to people who would better use them (on top of 'no free lunch' of getting two boons for one), and the results of such a shipyard would be individually lesser than the Wanderer. But it would get you more of what you're saying you want than going the roundabout route of trying to advertise how great skyships are by using one as a personal vehicle.

The current skyship option is Mathilde having her own blinged up one-of-a-kind flying ship (and that's fun, if not my kind of fun). There's absolutely no guarantee that the Colleges will find the investment of man-decades of enchanter hours from the most skilled workers of all eight institutes into a similar boondoggle ever worthwhile again unless we're spending our political capital to see them set up the long-term infrastructure. If you want the Empire to eventually have a dozen sky-Volvos rather than a single sky-Ferrari, vote for that.

I think you are mistaking the general statement that this may lead to developments for a desire to see said developments over and above just having a skyship. For me and I suspect for most others who brought it up it's a nice potential bonus, not the main thrust of the request.
 
They could've always made flying ships, because Morbs do nothing that powerstones cannot.

You are right, i don't like the flying ship for wide variety of problems, but your insistence of making it something it is not instead of focusing on all the things it actually is is making me actively hate it.
The SoO's do more.
And now they can turn 8 power stones into 8 orbs of sorcery.
The idea that this does not actually increase the ability of college's to do things is not one i am convinced of.

And how am i insisting on making the ship something it is not?
 
Updating my approval-voting - I prefer the version of Pickle's plan that has us get 3+AP of Cloudkill Apparition-hunting done for us from the Jades rather than 'small bucket of favour', but the former is trailing way behind the latter.

[X] Armor of von Tarnus
[X] Plan Not Pickle Requests Variant with Apparitions
[X] Plan Pickle Requests mk IV

And, why not, sounds like a fun arc and effectively guarantees that we'll actually go after all three Forest of Shadows nexuses and keep them secure afterward:
[X] Elector-Countess
 
I think you are mistaking the general statement that this may lead to developments for a desire to see said developments over and above just having a skyship. For me and I suspect for most others who brought it up it's a nice potential bonus, not the main thrust of the request.
Sure, that's why my post starts with the qualifier that it does. If that qualifier doesn't apply to you, you're not who I'm aiming the comment at.
 
I want an airship because it's absolutely rad and would make us the talk of the town in whatever town we are currently visiting. It would cement our image as the most unsubtle subtle grey wizard to ever wizard!
 
Sure, that's why my post starts with the qualifier that it does. If that qualifier doesn't apply to you, you're not who I'm aiming the comment at.
Like, i am probably the most vocal person talking about skyfleets.
But i do not expect them to ever actually show up i the quest, because developments like that can take years, or decades, to go from random idea, to a serious proposal, to concrete actions.
 
Like, i am probably the most vocal person talking about skyfleets.
But i do not expect them to ever actually show up i the quest, because developments like that can take years, or decades, to go from random idea, to a serious proposal, to concrete actions.
Hell I'm pretty sure the dwarfs would make a sky fleet before the empire just because a) they have a history with the things and dwarfs love their history and b) they are the only polity that already does mechanical flight in greater number and as such would have a basis for the designwork needed to do major fleet work.
 
The SoO's do more.
And now they can turn 8 power stones into 8 orbs of sorcery.
The idea that this does not actually increase the ability of college's to do things is not one i am convinced of.

And how am i insisting on making the ship something it is not?
It is a marvel of sorcerous engineering for personal use. What it is not is some kind of paradigm shifting invention that will revolutionize battle-altars.

The Orbs of Sorcery do nothing an Array of Powerstones could not. If flying ships was something Collegiate desired or thought was better use of them than whatever they have been using them for, they would've made it ages ago.

We are shifting resources that could've been used somewhere for a vanity project, and thats okay, but lets not assume its more than that.

EDIT: The ship is not unique in that. Same could be said for bespoke super robes, or bespoke superstaff, or indeed, bespoke flying tower. But it is that. And none of the stuff will be novel because we unveiled Orbs of Sorcery, it will be novel because we made the colleges pool an immense range of expertise together. Anything they can do now is the same they could do before we gave them those. Because Orbs of Sorcery do not provide any new function.
 
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It is a marvel of sorcerous engineering for personal use. What it is not is some kind of paradigm shifting invention that will revolutionize battle-altars.

The Orbs of Sorcery do nothing an Array of Powerstones could not. If flying ships was something Collegiate desired or thought was better use of them than whatever they have been using them for, they would've made it ages ago.
Nothing can ever be changed because all the ideas have already been had.
got it.
 
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