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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Would it make sense to try to find evidence for any potential survival of norse dwarfs by examining their version/section of the Waystone network? The idea being that dwarfs are an essential component in the function of the Karak Waystone, so the functioning of that waystone can be an indicator of drwafs hidden deep within the Karak.

I assume they needed Karak Waystones and runic protection from storms of chaos and this sort of power would be just the thing to live underground cut off from the surface, though I can't explain why they wouldn't be part of the wider network or why this wouldn't have been checked as part of (presumably thorough) investigation by the Karaz Ankor previously. They could also just have dug deeper/to other mountains/power their civilisation via geothormal power or other crazy stuff and this doesn't account for that either.
 
LostSnufkin said:
Would it make sense to try to find evidence for any potential survival of norse dwarfs by examining their version/section of the Waystone network? The idea being that dwarfs are an essential component in the function of the Karak Waystone, so the functioning of that waystone can be an indicator of drwafs hidden deep within the Karak.

I assume they needed Karak Waystones and runic protection from storms of chaos and this sort of power would be just the thing to live underground cut off from the surface, though I can't explain why they wouldn't be part of the wider network or why this wouldn't have been checked as part of (presumably thorough) investigation by the Karaz Ankor previously. They could also just have dug deeper/to other mountains/power their civilisation via geothormal power or other crazy stuff and this doesn't account for that either.
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They almost certainly don't have anything recognizable as Waystones.

The only Waystones the Dwarfs ever built were built in cooperation with Ulthuan, and the Norse Dwarfs had already split from the Karaz Ankor by then.

I think the only way we'll ever know their fate for sure is if someone invents a spell to let you swim through rock or the might of Kislev and the Karaz Ankor increases to the point that they can feel comfortable that digging up the collapsed tunnels will only expose the Norse Dwarfs to friends and not foes.

Until then, they're Schrodinger's Dwarfs.
 
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Huh. Well as is clear I'm not really sure on the details or timeline. Sounds like actual Karak Waystones are right out. Still though, the impression I had is that they would still rely on the Runes of Valaya to not have their holds get chaos'd, and that some sort of power is needed to power them. The great existential crisis faced by Thorgrim in the years BM (before Mathilde) as I understand it was the current network not being able to maintain those protections, which would leave holds defenceless against any storm of chaos.

The Karak Waystones, the tranmission mountain-runes, and the Rune of Eternity in Karaz-a-Karak allow them to power the Great Works, which include the Runes of Valaya connected to it. If the norscan dwarfs are not connected to the network, and have not been turned to stone, wouldn't they have to power their runes of valaya somehow? That's a genuine question, I have no idea how the Runes of Valaya for dwarf holds work.

They sure seem to have inherited runes that the rest of the Karaz Ankor didn't, and drawing power from the winds seems like the place they'd start with that. While it might not look like a waystone we picture, the core action we're looking for is a drawing in of energy from outside to power runic stuff in the interior.

And sure that power-draw and implied runic activity might not prove their survival, just as its absence doesn't disprove it. But it would be significant evidence , bringing more hope to dwarfs (in the great dwarven Age of Mathilde), further incentivising the Karaz Ankors subsidising of the re-waystoning of Troll Country, and hope for the bolstering of any norse dwarf waystone-equivalents to provide a powerful shield to the north of kislev against encroaching winds of chaos and magic, even if no actual dwarfs are excavated.
 
LostSnufkin said:
Huh. Well as is clear I'm not really sure on the details or timeline. Sounds like actual Karak Waystones are right out. Still though, the impression I had is that they would still rely on the Runes of Valaya to not have their holds get chaos'd, and that some sort of power is needed to power them. The great existential crisis faced by Thorgrim in the years BM (before Mathilde) as I understand it was the current network not being able to maintain those protections, which would leave holds defenceless against any storm of chaos.

The Karak Waystones, the tranmission mountain-runes, and the Rune of Eternity in Karaz-a-Karak allow them to power the Great Works, which include the Runes of Valaya connected to it. If the norscan dwarfs are not connected to the network, and have not been turned to stone, wouldn't they have to power their runes of valaya somehow? That's a genuine question, I have no idea how the Runes of Valaya for dwarf holds work.

They sure seem to have inherited runes that the rest of the Karaz Ankor didn't, and drawing power from the winds seems like the place they'd start with that. While it might not look like a waystone we picture, the core action we're looking for is a drawing in of energy from outside to power runic stuff in the interior.

And sure that power-draw and implied runic activity might not prove their survival, just as its absence doesn't disprove it. But it would be significant evidence , bringing more hope to dwarfs (in the great dwarven Age of Mathilde), further incentivising the Karaz Ankors subsidising of the re-waystoning of Troll Country, and hope for the bolstering of any norse dwarf waystone-equivalents to provide a powerful shield to the north of kislev against encroaching winds of chaos and magic, even if no actual dwarfs are excavated.
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They presumably have (or had) some method to protect themselves from the Winds, but we have no idea what it is or how it would hypothetically be powered.

Not every mystery is ours to solve.
 
Theoretically you might be able to justify an expedition under the aegis of the Waystone Project to learn what the Norse dwarfs did, but it isn't likely to work. They are rather far from friendly territory. Kislev isn't in a condition to support such an expedition either. Not many of the participants would even be interested. Thorek probably wants to head out there at Some Point, but there's easier and closer targets nearby. The Second Silver Road War also makes it difficult to gather Dwarf power for the Karaz Ghumzul raid he plans, let alone one further from friendlies. Even Thorek wouldn't even know where to begin looking.

Speaking of Dwarfs, Games Workshop accidentally shipped out a copy of The Old World Dwarf Arcane Journal a week ago. They took down the ebay reseller, but we got to see the back of the book. It has two Armies of Infamy: the Royal Clan and Engineers' Expeditionary Expedition. There's three characters: Ungrim Ironfist, Burlok Damminson, and Thorgrim Ulleksson. Ulleksson is Thorgrim before he became Grudgebearer. He had a position related to the Dammaz Kron back then, it called him Kharl of the Dammaz Kron. I thought it was neat to learn the name of Thorgrim's father and I think it's neat that he had a position related to the Dammaz Kron before he inherited.
 
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I wasn't picturing a major expedition - more circling around a known hold with a gryobomber and a wizard with good magesight. Hopefully if a significant amount of power is being drawn in it would be rather easier to find. My somewhat vague recollection of this sort of thing so far is that it's probably easy to overlook, but also easy enough to spot if you're actively searching for something like it.

While we don't know how they might be powering their protections - sure it could be anything, but I think it's reasonable that it's likely to be absorbing the winds to power their runes. They need protection from the winds, they have runes to do that, and they know winds can power runes - they'll also have witnessed the spreading of the waystone network to their immediate south. They may have done other things, or hidden what they've done... but in my eyes that jumps out as the most obvious route for them to think of and to be able to do.

So sure, not every mystery is ours to solve - but there's no reason to think it's unsolvable either. I can't see us spending even 1AP on the sort of basic check I described above both because it would be inconclusive either way, might reveal absolutely nothing, and even if we do find evidence we can't do anything about it yet and probably can't for the forseeable future.

But the question is - does it make sense to find evidence in this way? My imagining of the situation casts the liklihood of the norse dwarves using a method to absorb the winds from above to power their runes below as high, and the comparative ease of detecting that as also quite high. Thus I pictured it as not only something we could do, but something that if the dwarves were aware of would see to themselves - probably by hiring a wizard with good magesight and flying them around the closer known holds of their own accord - if not now then in the not-too-distant future

I wasn't intending to ask in a roundabout way of suggesting we do that, more actually being unsure if that's in-line with how things work in-universe in the first place. So far I gather the answer is "Yes it's possible, but the odds aren't as good as you imagine and it's probably not as easy as you imagine either", so fair enough.
 
LostSnufkin said:
they'll also have witnessed the spreading of the waystone network to their immediate south.
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They wouldn't have, though. I don't believe they even know what an Elf is.

LostSnufkin said:
But the question is - does it make sense to find evidence in this way?
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I don't think it does, ultimately.

The only reason the stream of magic between Nexuses and Karaks is as visible as it is is because it's a concentrated stream of quite a lot of magic. I don't think even Mathilde would be able to see an ordinary Waystone simply absorbing magic from its surroundings, not unless she was right in front of the Waystone itself.
 
LostSnufkin said:
I wasn't picturing a major expedition - more circling around a known hold with a gryobomber and a wizard with good magesight. Hopefully if a significant amount of power is being drawn in it would be rather easier to find. My somewhat vague recollection of this sort of thing so far is that it's probably easy to overlook, but also easy enough to spot if you're actively searching for something like it.
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These bits from Karak Vlag make it clear how difficult it was for Mathilde, with the keenest Windsight available, to see the flow while on the ground, further to the south than any Norscan Dwarves would be. And, for that matter, she had far more of an idea what to look for.
Boney said:
You vaguely hear one of the Rangers ask something, only for Snorri to hush him. You let your eyes slide out of focus as you turn all your attention to the magic around you. All you can see at first is Azyr high above. You redouble your concentration. You can see birds of prey flying overhead, faint dots of Ghur among the Azyr. Patches of Ghyran in the hardy shrubs and mosses dotting the stone around you. The extremely faint hint of something alien yet familiar that emanates from Dwarves. Below you is blank, but it's blankness that's deepening as you focus your concentration down, blocking out everything but the stone.

And finally, you see it. Like a faint star you can only see when you're not looking directly at it, a tiny string of energy far below, one end frayed as the magical energy reaches its destination and finds nothing there to redirect it further south, and instead spills into the stone. At the point where those magics are being grounded the ambient energies must be so high that any creature there would be wracked by terrible mutation, but stone is hardier than that, and it simply radiates the energies until they're so diffused that they're harmless by the time they reach anything that could react to it. Stone is an excellent insulator of magic.
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Boney said:
Even though you have an exact compass heading to work with, finding the Waystone is still easier said than done. Most Waystones are either Elven monoliths or stone menhirs jutting out of the ground and are therefore very easy to spot even to those that can't see the magical suction siphoning the Winds from the air, but the Dwarven ones aren't quite so obvious to mundane or mystical senses. As far as you can tell they do not absorb Winds themselves, existing only to funnel the Winds absorbed by the great Karak-Waystones towards Karaz-a-Karak, and that power runs deep underground which makes it even harder to spot. It takes you, Johann and Hubert several hours to find your way to the Waystone, much of it spent with you in meditation as you try to catch a glimpse of the river of magical power far below you to confirm that you're still on course.

At last you come to a small mountain that at first glance seems no different to those surrounding it, but deep below the magical energies break from the perfectly straight line to turn more to the east. Close examination of the mountain itself reveals nothing; it's not until you move away and examine it from afar that the natural-seeming crags, cracks and gullies combine to form a massive Rune you don't recognize. The next step is to make your way to the peak, which would be no mean feat to those not capable of teleportation or flight, where the nature of the stone is somehow altered to allow for energy to pass through it without any loss of clarity or intensity. You place your hands upon it and recall the lessons you were taught of the ways the Colleges know to interact with them, and speak unfamiliar phrases while you form a construct you do not understand in your mind to funnel Ulgu into. When complete, the construct is accepted by the stone and sinks into the mountain, and after a minute a sickening lurch threatens to topple you off the mountain as you instinctively try to adjust for a movement that did not occur in the physical realm. Deep below, energy begins to pool like water behind a dam, except much more dangerous. Everything you know about magic screams at you to undo what you've just done, but better it gather threateningly here than to fuel the ambitions of the Chaos Gods.
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Curtains said:
We never did get that wayshard, the compass that points at nearby waystones in Laurelorn, from the Eonir.
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No, we did get it, it's just not a "trivialize finding lost Waystones" device.
Boney said:
Mathilde has a Wayshard now, but once it's been off for long enough, there's nothing to distinguish an inactive leyline from regular dirt and rock.
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If they're not on and connected, it doesn't help.
 
WestOrEast said:
These bits from Karak Vlag make it clear how difficult it was for Mathilde, with the keenest Windsight available, to see the flow while on the ground, further to the south than any Norscan Dwarves would be. And, for that matter, she had far more of an idea what to look for.
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I'm well aware that I'm bailing water from a ship that isn't only sinking but is, in fact, already underwater here. Nevertheless, in the text quoted we're told that the dwarven waystone we're looking for is less obvious than conventional ones both physically, and because it does not seem to absorb any energies only funnel them onwards. What I've been describing is looking for places which are in fact doing that.

Most Waystones are either Elven monoliths or stone menhirs jutting out of the ground and are therefore very easy to spot even to those that can't see the magical suction siphoning the Winds from the air, but the Dwarven ones aren't quite so obvious to mundane or mystical senses. As far as you can tell they do not absorb Winds themselves, existing only to funnel the Winds absorbed by the great Karak-Waystones towards Karaz-a-Karak, and that power runs deep underground which makes it even harder to spot.
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This doesn't go as far as saying waystones are obvious to mystical senses, but still isn't relevant to how visible a waystone equivalent drawing in energies is to mystical senses. In my initial envisioning I thought it was reasonable to assume they had Karak Waystones (but actually they wouldn't and it isn't) and they would be easier to spot. I thought I remembered that being mentioned in Mathildes first date with Panoramia, but I checked and it isn't really made clear that it would be obvious:

Boney said:
"You know what I'm doing?" She leans back in her chair with a smug smile. "Nothing. And the month after that? Nothing. And the month after that, I think I'm going to get around to catching up on my nothing." She grins, then turns serious. "But yes, it is intense for three seasons a year. But this valley means I can do something nobody else in the Order has been able to even try: to create arable land from a complete blank slate. No variables, no surprises, no fires, no floods, no droughts. Just dead soil and water and the Halflings and me, creating something from nothing. If I succeed, it's because of me. If I fail, it's because of me. Not because some broken Waystone farted on the far side of the horizon. Oh! And speaking of, that's another thing to take on once I'm done with the soil. Never even heard of a circular Waystone cluster anything like this big before, there's a paper or two in that."

You are a Wizard of the Grey Order, and Wizards of the Grey Order don't spit their drinks across the table. You finish your draw on the beer calmly and place the mug carefully back down. "You know much about Waystones?"

She looks at you oddly. "Jade Order, remember? I've been pulling Ghyran out of them ever since they woke up last year."
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So the wizard who spent year(s) investigating and working in K8P finding out the Karaks are giant waystones doesn't really tell us much about spotting waystones in general, or spotting a Karakstone via fly-by. I don't recall any mention of what a waystone that was absorbing energy looked like with mystical senses and whether it would be reasonable to spot it at a distance on that basis. That said tributaries are very inconspicuous as I recall, and even when we looked at the Ghyran-shunted nexus in reikland the narration implies it was only noticed to be fountaining Ghyran when we were outside the temple that housed the nexus, rather than when approaching via Gyrobomber or entering the ruins.

Sadly though, I'm having to give up on the premise entirely - at first I assumed it was a Karak Waystone in which case this sort of investigation would be rather reasonable. Then I assumed it would still sort of work if they're using their own alternative on the basis that they should have something that can be spotted fairly easily, and that's become rapidly less plausible. Finally though, I remembered that a core part of this was that if it had been reasonable to assume they were using a Karak Waystone (which again, it turns out they wouldn't be) the continued operation of said karakstone would imply the survival of the dwarfs within. On reflection, there is no reason to think that whatever waystone alternatives norse dwarfs might have used worked in that way, so the existence and continued operation of such a thing implies nothing at all about any dwarfs below the mountains.

It's a tragic end to the supposition, but I will endure.
 
MiracleGrow said:
Ya know, I can't get over the particular fact we planted the tree nut into the center of the Karak. A karak that is moving massive amounts of energy through its waystones. Which the tree is probably feeding off of. I think the vast majority of the nuts that get planted do not get conditions that pristine.

There is a non zero chance that whatever Asrai whose job is to monitor the energy from the waystone network/or Oak of Ages is going to notice something is up.
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I'm more concerned about two things:

1) Potentially creating a connection to the Worldroots right inside the heart of Karak Eight Peaks, and considering Asrai and Drycha tendencies, that could be a big problem.

2) If this new tree grows large enough, it could block out the sun on critical farming/grazing lands...and block the Eye of Gazul partially.

While extremely cool, until the tree produces acorns of its own, it doesn't really provide any benefits either.

Does the Oak of Ages provide super growth for plant life/crops underneath its shadow even though that shadow would normally starve out that plant life of vital sunlight (via magic)?

On the other hand, if Panoramia or even Paranoth eventually recognize that we've planted a baby Oak of Ages in the center of Karak Eight Peaks, we might find a delegation from the Jade College descending upon K8P with wide eyes and massive excitement. Or even Eonir, gobsmacked that Mathilde found such a treasure during a side-jaunt on her journey to the far north from a Druuchi raider.
 
SaltyWaffles said:
1) Potentially creating a connection to the Worldroots right inside the heart of Karak Eight Peaks, and considering Asrai and Drycha tendencies, that could be a big problem.

2) If this new tree grows large enough, it could block out the sun on critical farming/grazing lands...and block the Eye of Gazul partially.
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For point one, should it ever become a security threat the dwarfs will be happy to start swinging axes at a moments notice, or set it on fire. Depending on if the engineers or the warriors get to it first.

As for the second point, it is a big tree, yes, but not big enough to shelter a force threatening enough that the normal batteries of canons wouldn't be able to deal with it.

Currently the tree is fine, until the dedicated jade wizard and the scary grey wizard say otherwise it's fine.

(Also I still love that the dwarves attitude is "we asked them to grow plants and that plant is definitely growing!")
 
Average dwarf, who mines for 80 hours a week, has not seen sunlight for years and only encountered wood in form of furniture: I dunno, never saw how quick non-magical trees grow either, is this unusual?
 
I'm unclear on exact size- it seems like oaks are roughly hemispherical in shape and most only get like 20-30 meters tall. So if we have a tree 10 times the size of a normal oak like 300-500 meters to be generous, then we've got a thing the size of the largest skyscrapers in our world, still an order of magnitude smaller than a mountain. And like only about a what, ⅕ as wide as the caldera? It's like 2-3 kilometers, I think.

But big enough that herd animals could get shade from the sun (southerly plus elevation = harshness) in large numbers, so I think it'll be good.

Agriculturally, what we are looking at right now is a east valley that is being intensively fertilized, gardened, and irrigated, but not much going on in the caldera. The oak itself is probably the only thing besides grass and scrub, and we know there's not a lot of rain. Deep roots solve that for the oak but not crops, so it's not going to kick itself out of desert without intervention.

My bet is that Panoramia is thinking this:

The oak is going to provide a microclimate where it's shadier and moister than the rest. That'll be good for leafier plants, as they will need more surface area but won't suffer as much transpiration loss, and they can anchor an ecosystem. But they will need organic material to grow in.

We've been meaning to start herd animals more seriously now that we've got some confidence in that skaven goop, and there's some deep rooted meadow grasses establishing themselves, so we'll not have to be feeding them on hay and fodder. Well, ok, mostly not on hay and fodder. But they'll spend most of their time in the shade and so they'll be doing their pooping there. Few years of that and we'll be able to grow anything. Maybe haul some away to spread elsewhere?

Too much tromping too close to the trunk will kill the roots so we'll have to fence it off a bit- but it's magically grown and into rock at that so maybe it's ok? Can't really risk it without testing, can't test without risking it.
 
SaltyWaffles said:
2) If this new tree grows large enough, it could block out the sun on critical farming/grazing lands...and block the Eye of Gazul partially.
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It's still smaller than the fort at the center of the Caldera that it's right nearby to.

If Mathilde isn't concerned about it blocking the Eye, and Panoramia isn't concerned about it blocking farmland, than I am not concerned myself.
 
SaltyWaffles said:
I'm more concerned about two things:

1) Potentially creating a connection to the Worldroots right inside the heart of Karak Eight Peaks, and considering Asrai and Drycha tendencies, that could be a big problem.

2) If this new tree grows large enough, it could block out the sun on critical farming/grazing lands...and block the Eye of Gazul partially.

While extremely cool, until the tree produces acorns of its own, it doesn't really provide any benefits either.

Does the Oak of Ages provide super growth for plant life/crops underneath its shadow even though that shadow would normally starve out that plant life of vital sunlight (via magic)?

On the other hand, if Panoramia or even Paranoth eventually recognize that we've planted a baby Oak of Ages in the center of Karak Eight Peaks, we might find a delegation from the Jade College descending upon K8P with wide eyes and massive excitement. Or even Eonir, gobsmacked that Mathilde found such a treasure during a side-jaunt on her journey to the far north from a Druuchi raider.
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I wouldn't be worried about either of those things really. I'd imagine you can work around either of those things and Mathilde would say something if it was a issue.

Honestly what I really want to happen is some interactions with the Asrai. They are interesting people who very much deserve the reputation they got IC. But they also have some funny contrasts. Like on one end they are the RIP AND TEAR any moron who vaguely thinks about Athel Loren, and in the other side of the spectrum you got entire banquets packed full of Bretonnian Knights. With the Asrai going "I'm going to use my fey charms on them teehee :3". Its a erratic portrayal and I bet they have a more complicated dynamic going on than just that.
 
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I think this falls under trusting the characters to be competent in their fields. Probably not a problem.

We shouldn't stop thinking and talking about possible issues. It's good way to take part in the quest, and the world is solid enough to justify it. And there absolutely is a chance of thinking of something the characters or Boney have not considered.

But the null hypothesis should be: it's not an issue, or Mathilde/the relevant expert would have called it out.

It's also difficult, since we and the characters know different things and have different perspectives. We don't and can't know the exact mechanisms, which includes Boney, so poking into details too much is not only impossible, but a burden. On the other hand, we have ooc knowledge that Mathilde does not. Getting mad* production going is almost certainly the best way to strengthen the Empire, but Mathilde does know that, or how to do that. An example from the quest would that people figured out what titan metal is really fast, which was impressive as hell and pretty cool, but does not actually help Mathilde in quest.

So I guess what I'm saying is that debate about possible issues is cool and good and should be done, but under the awareness that it's mostly for its own sake, and there's serious limitations going both ways.

*autocorrected, but I'm not gonna fix it
 
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Guess what, everyone! Turns out The Old World Rulebook gives us a solid origin for the Winds of Magic! Here's an extract from page 317, part of the aftermath of Caledor's creation of the Great Vortex:
As the ætheric winds continued to flow, Elven mages began to perceive peculiar currents not visible before. More unusual still, these new currents were shot through with vibrant colours where once the Winds of Magic had shone only with a silvery white light, or boiled black under the influence of Chaos. These coloured streamers seemed drawn to the material world in ways the mages instinctively knew were meaningful. To those gifted with the mage-sight, the world around them had changed – in the deep forests, a rich jade green wind blew; around the massive pyres on which fallen soldiers burned, a roiling red wind blustered; across the endless battlefields, a cold, purple mist hung. In all, eight distinct hues were discernible, eight different winds.

As this phenomenon was studied, Elven mages found that they could grasp and manipulate these winds with an ease once only dreamed of. Where once even the most skilled of mages had to carefully unpick the power needed from the magical wind, now they could see that power clearly and grasp it at will. It was as if scales had fallen from their eyes, and the ways in which magic and the world around them intertwined had been revealed.

Though the Elves had no way of knowing it, the Geomantic Web had fractured when the polar gates collapsed. When the Elves had built their waystones, they had added many nodes of power clumsily into the arcane circuitry of the Old Ones, causing fractures to break wide open. As raw magic escaped these wounds, strange currents formed and the many strands of ætheric energy that combined to create raw magic bent and separated from one another, in much the way white light disperses into rainbow colours when shone through a prism.
With the coming of Chaos, magic had engulfed the world, but when Chaos was driven back, the magic persisted. What's more, the very nature of magic itself had changed, and with that change was the world itself altered in ways that could never be undone.
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Turns out Caledor is directly responsible for magic being eight different winds rather than a single silvery white light. The elves' waystones further fractured the Geomantic Web, magic blew from the fractures, and that magic got refracted. I think this is supported by WFRP 4e: Winds of Magic page 194, which, among other waystone properties a waystone may have, is the Refraction property:
Refraction
Refraction separates raw magic into its individual colours. This property is often combined with Attraction to maintain leyline stability, by keeping all eight winds separated. Refraction waystones can also separate one or two colours of magic from the rest and funnel them into individual leylines flowing toward other waystones.
  • Rules of Refraction: Channelling Tests made for spells from the Lores of Beasts, Death, Fire, Heavens, Metal, Life, Light, and Shadows benefit from +1 SL. For all other Lores, channelling is penalised by –1 SL.
  • Separate Winds: Where a stone refracts a particular wind or winds in a particular direction, the bonus to Channelling Tests only applies to Lores associated with those winds.
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EDIT: Also yeah, confirming that Malekith did in fact get renamed to Malerion in The Old World.

EDIT 2: Page 318:
In the centuries that followed, the mages of Ulthuan studied the Winds of Magic, dedicating their long lives to understanding the different winds and how each could be manipulated. They learned that pure magic, or 'High Magic', still existed, and that each of the differently hued winds was a mere aspect of this. They learned that with sublime skill the pure wind of High Magic could still be seen and manipulated by a mage with a mastery of each of its component strands, and that through studying each in isolation, they could better their understanding of High Magic.
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And now we know what Qhaysh looks like: silvery white light. Maybe that's why Lileath is so important to High Magic? Silver and white are moon colours.

EDIT 3: In page 324, in the Dark Magic section, we get a paragraph that makes it clearer that the Winds of Magic did exist before the Great Vortex, but within Qhaysh, not as standalone magical energies:
With the collapse of the polar gates, Chaos came into the world. As it did, the pure and refined magic harnessed by the Old Ones came into contact with its influence for the first time within the mortal realm. Almost immediately, the corrupting power of Chaos began to work upon it as surely as it did the bodies and minds of mortals. Twisted and warped by Chaos, the unseen strands of colour that composed pure magic merged and bled into one another, causing the Winds of Magic to grow blackened and ever more unstable.
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EDIT 4: Page 327, Elementalism, Travel Mystical Pathway
Geomantic Web huh.
 
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How about instead of battle magic, we trick out our gyrocopter and call it in on strafing runs? Like, eternal flame so it has the endurance to cover us long durations, put a bunch of Adela's steam RPGs on it for weapons, pay no heed on the rotors to make people just tune out the noise, maybe get Max to do a chin-gun variant on his signature spell. Mage armor over the whole thing.
 
Glau said:
How about instead of battle magic, we trick out our gyrocopter and call it in on strafing runs? Like, eternal flame so it has the endurance to cover us long durations, put a bunch of Adela's steam RPGs on it for weapons, pay no heed on the rotors to make people just tune out the noise, maybe get Max to do a chin-gun variant on his signature spell. Mage armor over the whole thing.
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We specifically got a non-military craft. Like, we went out of our way to have a civilian-use-only, maximum-comfort-and-range transport aircraft.

Weaponizing it would defeat the entire point.

The only enchantment I could see being both sensible and begrudgingly approved of by the dwarves would be an enchantment that reduced external noise in the passenger compartment, since it does not affect the operation or piloting of the craft at all and doesn't endanger anyone's safety if the enchantment were to unexpectedly fail.
 
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