Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
If that's a problem, then don't create a plan where a single centralized Waystone Factory is the bottleneck for the entire continent. Have multiple parallel rollouts happening at once.
The problem is that two components require attention of people that number in low tens and those cannot be increased no matter what facilities you built. More rollouts does not mean more waystones made in this scenario. Which I guess means that we should do the second simpler waystone.
 
The problem is that two components require attention of people that number in low tens and those cannot be increased no matter what facilities you built. More rollouts does not mean more waystones made in this scenario. Which I guess means that we should do the second simpler waystone.
That just means we need to come up with waystones that can be built by more people.
 
If that's a problem, then don't create a plan where a single centralized Waystone Factory is the bottleneck for the entire continent. Have multiple parallel rollouts happening at once.
A thought: It might be possible to convince Ulthuan to help construct Waystones, if we feel that relying on Laurelorn alone wouldn't be fast enough. Ulthuan-standardized Waystones might take tons of time and resources, but even our current expensive design is way cheaper and faster to make.
 
That just means we need to come up with waystones that can be built by more people.
I feel like there is a point that going too low is not worth it since it would just introduce weaknesses to chains we aim to build and that might cause more trouble than it is worth if that causes all the upsteam waystones to turn to Dhar fountains.

But there is probably some wiggle room. I am just not convinced the cheapest options stones are viable.
 
A thought: It might be possible to convince Ulthuan to help construct Waystones, if we feel that relying on Laurelorn alone wouldn't be fast enough. Ulthuan-standardized Waystones might take tons of time and resources, but even our current expensive design is way cheaper and faster to make.
You'd have to give their Archmages a reason to look into simplifying the component beyond 'reclaiming the glories of the Golden Age.' You could convince them with gold, but it won't get as much effort as a waystone that they can use. They can't use the waystone we designed. The Runesmiths' Guild will never sell runes to them. Even the Engineers won't sell products directly to Ulthuan.

They need an Elessar Elf Stone. Something like this, I guess. I'm not sure whether the Grey Lord or Collegiate method would be better.
[ ] [CAPSTONE] Stone Flower
[ ] [RUNE] Wizard
[ ] [STORAGE] Reverse-engineered
[ ] [FOUNDATION] Grey Lord or Collegiate
[ ] [TRANSMISSION] Leyline
 
I have a proposal. Right now, we have a finished design, and several theoretical ones, but we don't exactly know much about how we can or should use them. Therefore, I think for next turn it would be a good idea to:

1) Use Laurelorn as our testing site. It's a mostly controlled environment, where we already have a base of operations, close to the Archmages and High Mages we need (as well as everyone else we want to bring to Tor Lithanel), and to the first production line (handled by House Tindomiel, as per our agreement). We can see what's the best way to set them up, how well our river/leyline transmission works in practice, what are the production speed and the logistical problems, where are the bottlenecks, how easier to make does the storage get, and whether there's any unexpected problems. I'd have preferred to start fixing the most problematic places already, but we really should look into them first, which brings me to the next point.

2) Take a look at the places we need to cover. Most of the Old World will presumably be similar to Laurelorn, but the highest priority locations (Kislev, Mordheim, Sylvania, Forest of Shadows, Middle Mountains) very much aren't. We need to know how bad it is (or more accurately, what flavor of 'really bad' each place is), what do we need, and how we should adapt our Waystones to deal with them. In particular, I'm thinking of a Kislev-Mordheim-Sylvania roadtrip, with Zlata and Niedzwenka for the first, and the rest of the gang (Egrimm/Cadaeth/Sarvoi/Aksel/Tochter) for the other two.

3) The following turn, we'll have a far better idea of what to do: what new design(s) do we need, where can we just start putting our current model of Waystones, where and how to set up new production lines, etc. We can thus finally get started with mass production, make a schedule for the Project's next steps, and leave for the Elfcation at the end of the turn.
 
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I have a proposal. Right now, we have a finished design, and several theoretical ones, but we don't exactly know much about how we can or should use them. Therefore, I think for next turn it would be a good idea to:

1) Use Laurelorn as our testing site. It's a mostly controlled environment, where we already have a base of operations, close to the Archmages and High Mages we need (as well as everyone else we want to bring to Tor Lithanel), and to the first production line (handled by House Tindomiel, as per our agreement). We can see what's the best way to set them up, how well our river/leyline transmission works in practice, what are the production speed and the logistical problems, where are the bottlenecks, how easier to make does the storage get, and whether there's any unexpected problems. I'd have preferred to start fixing the most problematic places already, but we really should look into them first, which brings me to the next point.

2) Take a look at the places we need to cover. Most of the Old World will presumably be similar to Laurelorn, but the highest priority locations (Kislev, Mordheim, Sylvania, Forest of Shadows, Middle Mountains) very much aren't. We need to know how bad it is (or more accurately, what flavor of 'really bad' each place is), what do we need, and how we should adapt our Waystones to deal with them. In particular, I'm thinking of a Kislev-Mordheim-Sylvania roadtrip, with Zlata and Niedzwenka for the first, and the rest of the gang (Egrimm/Cadaeth/Sarvoi/Aksel/Tochter) for the other two.

3) The following turn, we'll have a far better idea of what to do: what new design(s) do we need, where can we just start putting our current model of Waystones, where and how to set up new production lines, etc. We can thus finally get started with mass production, make a schedule for the Project's next steps, and leave for the Elfcation at the end of the turn.
I think we should test Kislev network, try assembling cheaper waystone and deploy the current one conditionally. Something like Laurelorn [Frontier]. The places that are really unwholesome. There is bound to be a few. Then, the turn after, if the cheaper waystone pans out, deploy both Kislev and Laurelton with mix and match. Chains of higher tier waystones for egregious Dhar dense areas, with cheaper ones in more benign locations.
 
You'd have to give their Archmages a reason to look into simplifying the component beyond 'reclaiming the glories of the Golden Age.' You could convince them with gold, but it won't get as much effort as a waystone that they can use. They can't use the waystone we designed. The Runesmiths' Guild will never sell runes to them. Even the Engineers won't sell products directly to Ulthuan.

They need an Elessar Elf Stone. Something like this, I guess. I'm not sure whether the Grey Lord or Collegiate method would be better.
[ ] [CAPSTONE] Stone Flower
[ ] [RUNE] Wizard
[ ] [STORAGE] Reverse-engineered
[ ] [FOUNDATION] Grey Lord or Collegiate
[ ] [TRANSMISSION] Leyline
I think we would do better to not use the reverse engineered storage. From what we were told, Ulthuan has archmages that can rebuild lost waystones given enough time; what they lack is a "quick-and-dirty" design that gets the job done good enough and can be put up on every hilltop in the kingdom.
 
I think we would do better to not use the reverse engineered storage. From what we were told, Ulthuan has archmages that can rebuild lost waystones given enough time; what they lack is a "quick-and-dirty" design that gets the job done good enough and can be put up on every hilltop in the kingdom.
That's what Eltharion took the tributary for. Ulthuan can build waystones, but it's a pain in the ass for them because it upsets the ego of Caledor. In comparison, working together with the Old World to simplify an enchantment from the Golden Age is rather simple.

And sure, we can still provide a cheaper waystone. But the waystone I proposed is about as cheap as it gets and performs pretty damn well. The main problem is the Archmage, which will go away in time. That waystone design will give the Outer Kingdoms a permanent waystone design that they can make on their own, without needing the Inner Kingdoms. Humans might be fine with temporary solutions, but elves and dwarves won't be particularly impressed with it.

He listens to your theorizing on the Titan-metal used in the original capstones, and confirms that the Kingdom of Caledor would have the ability, though not necessarily the inclination, to make more of the stuff. Though he doesn't outright say it would be expensive, it's implied enough that you're happy you considered the alternatives.
 
That's what Eltharion took the tributary for. Ulthuan can build waystones, but it's a pain in the ass for them because it upsets the ego of Caledor. In comparison, working together with the Old World to simplify an enchantment from the Golden Age is rather simple.

And sure, we can still provide a cheaper waystone. But the waystone I proposed is about as cheap as it gets and performs pretty damn well. The main problem is the Archmage, which will go away in time. That waystone design will give the Outer Kingdoms a permanent waystone design that they can make on their own, without needing the Inner Kingdoms. Humans might be fine with temporary solutions, but elves and dwarves won't be particularly impressed with it.
I was actually referring to this passage:
"The Waystones we have covered your lands and ours in is the artisanry of the Inner Kingdoms. In every foreseen scenario, it performs its task perfectly. But it does not deal well with the unforeseen, or with deliberate sabotage. What you have created may not be fit for Saphery's libraries, but there may be a place in Yvresse's armouries for something that can be taught and deployed quicker and easier than a Sapherian masterpiece."
The Titanmetal caps would be expensive, sure, but I read the key bottleneck as Archmage Hours, whether because they're always in demand or because it's just politically useful for Saphery to artificially increase scarcity. Giving them another design that requires an Archmage doesn't actually solve Yvresse's problem in the short term, the way a design they can do totally in-house does.
 
What if we do a rollout action in one or two places, then also design another waystone prototype, one that is mass-producible?

Personally, I care a lot more about the launch of the new Waystones going as well as possible than I care about running off to a magical island for a vacation.
 
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I was actually referring to this passage:

The Titanmetal caps would be expensive, sure, but I read the key bottleneck as Archmage Hours, whether because they're always in demand or because it's just politically useful for Saphery to artificially increase scarcity. Giving them another design that requires an Archmage doesn't actually solve Yvresse's problem in the short term, the way a design they can do totally in-house does.
All of the Ten Kingdoms have Archmages and archmage/Von Tarnus-equivalents. The White Tower is not the only magical tradition on Ulthuan, simply the most famous. And neither is the White Tower unified to the extent that all their archmages would be unwilling to work on it. Cothique, Lothern, Nagarythe, and Yvresse, all of the kingdoms have their own traditions. Ulthuan is large enough that even if half of the elves capable of working on it refuse on principle, that's probably still more than the what the Old World can put together combined.
 
They demoted an Elven Goddess to put a human one on the Pantheonic mandala! Here, buddy, take a huff of this copium about how Ulric is totally Asuryan in a funny hat. But they did it because it was the cost to survive, and it reframed the issue for the other provinces.
Ironically, putting aside their pride to survive is quite an Ulrican thing to do.


I definitely support making something that can be mass-produced by the Empire and individual Ulthuan kingdoms.

Just picking all the Wind-wizard components (possibly including the reverse-engineered storage after it gets easier) and 'just' regular leylines would make a huge difference in how fast they can be deployed, and we wouldn't have to worry about needing Runesmiths or Qhaysh or specifically Jade wizards. All eight Colleges could do them, after the reverse-engineered storage gets easier.
 
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I think there is a lot of value in mixed approach. Namely, it forces cooperation. That the mages could go "well, we could adjust with our own stuff" is a possibility but I hope wizards know what they are about. So while collegiate waystone is great idea in theory, I would really rather it stayed theoretical.
 
That just means we need to come up with waystones that can be built by more people.
To take this to the extreme;

I still want an air-transmission zero-storage model that needs as little mage/runesmith workhours as possible - potentially none - that can be placed in millitary outposts and watchtowers or other... mostly secure locations not covered by the existing network that also does not have river access.

The main use I'm imagining is to expand the range a given karak-waystone can collect winds, by grabbing winds from outside a karak-waystone's regular range, carrying those winds along a chain and then dumping[*] those winds within the catchment area of the karak-waystone.

[*] It might be more sensible to have the air-waystone-chain jut into the karak-waystone's area rather than dumping the wind all at once.

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As I'm thinking on this, I'm seeing potential issues with chaining these air-waystones; since my what I'm thinking of involves only transmitting one wind at a time.
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Sorry if this is a jumble of a post, I've had 8 hours of sleep in the past 2 days.
Ulthuan-standardized Waystones might take tons of time and resources, but even our current expensive design is way cheaper and faster to make.
Wait, really?

Iirc, our forest-tributary ritual could be easily adpated to fit a fair bit of Ulthuan's current needs, but can you point me to where our current waystone design is cheaper and faster than Ulthuan's current methods, because big if true.
 
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Wait, really?

Iirc, our forest-tributary ritual could be easily adpated to fit a fair bit of Ulthuan's current needs, but can you point me to where our current waystone design is cheaper and faster than Ulthuan's current methods, because big if true.
We don't actually know how expensive or how long it takes Ulthuan to make waystones. We can only speculate. But our first prototype took 6 months to put together, and its main cost is in mage hours, not any limited resource like Old One monoliths. So, I'd guess ours is significantly cheaper and faster to make.
 
I personally don't think there's much value in the magical rune, except in getting Ulthuan a waystone. Like pucflek said, cooperation is good. It'll give reason for Bretonnia, Kislev, and Laurelorn to stay friendly with the Karaz Ankor (and thus the Empire). Also it just seems kinda lame not to put dwarf runes on them.

I'm mixed about the Collegiate Fascis. It's easy enough to make the Stone Flower. I don't think it will be a significant bottlecap. I expect the Foundation and Storage to be more significant bottlecaps. It might not be a downside for it to not absorb energy if not connected to the nexus. Sure, the waystones won't be taking energy out of the second a waystone between it and the nexus is knocked out, but it won't create dhar bombs. It should be possible to procure Stone Flowers can be procured from Ulthuan, so it's more difficult to encourage cooperation with it. Especially with Bretonnia.

We don't actually know how expensive or how long it takes Ulthuan to make waystones. We can only speculate. But our first prototype took 6 months to put together, and its main cost is in mage hours, not any limited resource like Old One monoliths. So, I'd guess ours is significantly cheaper and faster to make.
Ulthuan's nexuses require Old One monoliths. Their waystones do not. They just require the expertise of Saphery and massaging Caledor in the ego. While massaging the Kingdom of Caledor's ego is probably more tedious and painful than finding Old One monoliths, Ulthuan's waystone's don't have a limited supply. :V

I'd say our waystone has the potential to be less labor intensive than their waystones. It probably doesn't because the capstone and transmission add a bit of work that ours doesn't, but it's possible. I'm not sure what they use for storage. They apparently don't use the Golden Age storage, or they haven't shared it if they do. :anger:
 
The problem is that two components require attention of people that number in low tens and those cannot be increased no matter what facilities you built. More rollouts does not mean more waystones made in this scenario. Which I guess means that we should do the second simpler waystone.

I think that just means we need an alternative design for Kislev. Something like a riverine spirit based design that doesn't need storage would be ideal as then the Dhar produced by the dwarven capstone design can be teleported directly to a nexus.
 
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