Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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Somic
It's meow or never
- Pronouns
- She/Her
However, they would have the best information on the nobility, because Greys spy on everyone, all the time. (That's not me arguing for Grey tho, he can ask his trusted advisors. Kinda like Abelhelm did. And like Heidi already believes it would be a good idea for him to do.)
My big issue with the Jades is that their argument was "look how amazing a Jade wizard would be for reikland", not "look how amazing a Jade Elector would be".
Which of course has the unspoken question of "why are the jades not already doing that". Because turning Reikland into the breadbasket of the empire is something the jades can do irregardless of Mandred's actual wind.
Which of course has the unspoken question of "why are the jades not already doing that". Because turning Reikland into the breadbasket of the empire is something the jades can do irregardless of Mandred's actual wind.
- Location
- Void
Also far as I'm aware Greys also tend to run businesses that don't often have their name on it, like the Cafe that Math and her Master when to, if I'm recalling correctly. So I wouldn't say that they only have contacts within cults and gangs, feels like that's oversimplifying what the Greys have to offer.
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- Location
- California, USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Boney said that because he was responding to me who called it that, and/or because it's become a common shorthand in the thread. But the risk of relying on common shorthand is that you might lose the voters who don't read the thread. I'm not saying it's not a sufficiently descriptive vote, but we're currently talking about how we're gonna be wording it for maximum effectiveness.
If 'leadership' isn't good enough, perhaps "Focusing and expanding upon the non-elemental side of Aqshy?" I would say "Cardinal" but I think that runs into the same problems as "Indic."
If the answer is a hard no then the answer is a hard no, that's why I'm asking Boney. Realistically I think it would be more "He's not gonna be able to make friends with the traditionalists but it's not gonna be a political or educational problem" and like, did we want him to be buddies with those types of people anyway?
Because they have very little political power, they don't control the money or infrastructure, they don't control the farmers, and none of them are the face of wizardkind in the Empire.
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Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Information that Mandred would need high Intrigue to make use of. Otherwise it is rather useless as fumbling that would just anger nobles.
Mandred might get good but it is by no means a gurenteed so it is not really a good option. Hell Mathilde was not able to make use of Grey network for being too highty and mighty in Stirland so you know thinking Mandred will get it automatically is misleading. But with high martial and diplo he will grok other Brights and military types both.
- Location
- USA
"this is not a vampire quest"
- Location
- Brazil
The Indy aqshy condition sounds actually amazing, ngl. It injects some cool magical lore into the quest, and directly buffs leadership and martial abilities.
But I also think it'd be really cool to have him as an apprentice, so I'm cool with either.
Jade argument felt hollow, Gold is-
-pretty fucking funny, actually.
But it does feel a bit boring, doesn't it?
But I also think it'd be really cool to have him as an apprentice, so I'm cool with either.
Jade argument felt hollow, Gold is-
But it does feel a bit boring, doesn't it?
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deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Likely they'll be second or even third sons (or daughters, I don't quite remember where the Empire sits on combat gender roles). Traditionally it's first sons are raised to rule, second sons join the military, third sons go into the church. There's some fudging there for personal inclinations, but the eldest sons won't generally be in the army.
Gentlemen. I want to draw attention to something that seems to have not been particularly considered. Mandred must become a ruler first and only then a wizard. And in this case, Grays is an extremely useful option to compensate for his weakness. He is trusting and will easily agree with his friends, and this can easily become a problem. The Grays, with their dose of paranoia, are extremely useful for a ruler. I don't like Brights with their focus on passion precisely because of their impulsiveness.
Ok, I'll admit something. Despite the fact that we were explicitely told by Boney that Mandred probably won't be able to gain the votes to become Emperor, I kind of still want to give him a shot at it.
And Mathilde as a master could advantage Mandred a lot in that regard by leveraging her own reputation and using Protector shenenigans. I could certainly see us roam battlefields and eliminate threats for a while with apprentice Mandred to accrue prestige and goodwill, gain experience and help strenghten his future allies.
If we succeeded to make him emperor, Mandred would be in a position to greatly improve the Empire's foreign diplomacy. Especially if tutored by Mathilde in foreign cultures and languages, after all he does seem to have a knack for diplomacy.
And Mathilde as a master could advantage Mandred a lot in that regard by leveraging her own reputation and using Protector shenenigans. I could certainly see us roam battlefields and eliminate threats for a while with apprentice Mandred to accrue prestige and goodwill, gain experience and help strenghten his future allies.
If we succeeded to make him emperor, Mandred would be in a position to greatly improve the Empire's foreign diplomacy. Especially if tutored by Mathilde in foreign cultures and languages, after all he does seem to have a knack for diplomacy.
- Location
- India
- Pronouns
- He/His
Can someone tell me what the issue was with Hubert that mentioning his journeyman status caused Magister Stern to get angry?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I still feel like being a grey is the most likely to torpedo his emperor chances. You do not give the person you fear more power by choice, and the grey college is the bogeyman of nobles. Except this would be a super grey, one who is not bound by oath against using their magic to interfere with politics.
Everyone has secrets they like kept. Nobody would be capable of being an effective political check on an emperor grey.
Who would vote to put themselves under the thumb of their political competitors so completely and utterly? If the answer isnt "everyone without an axe to grind", grey Mandred loses the election.
If the throne is the goal, then take a college that has noble connections like the golds.
Everyone has secrets they like kept. Nobody would be capable of being an effective political check on an emperor grey.
Who would vote to put themselves under the thumb of their political competitors so completely and utterly? If the answer isnt "everyone without an axe to grind", grey Mandred loses the election.
If the throne is the goal, then take a college that has noble connections like the golds.
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Somic
It's meow or never
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Celestials are huge snobs about mystical Azyr, prioritizing it heavily over elemental Azyr and basing promotion, etc. on mastery of it. Hubert has an innate talent for elemental Azyr, and only that. He very much did not mesh with the College priorities, and decided to never try for Magister, because he's just fine as a Journeyman away from it.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
You are describing tutor and bodyguard job offer we got, that is not a collage.
If you want that vote for it as our next job. It has no bearing on this vote how ever.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
He might have some talent for mystical side but impression I got was he just hated the practice of it so only did enough to become a journeyman.
But their promises of better treatment for Mandred does ring hollwo when you consider that Huber is a son of a Baron and that changed very little. Either Celestials won't be able to actually treat him better or they will which will piss of both other elemental natured Celestials and old crowd who will think he got promoted for nepotism. Either way that is a poisioned well.
To some extent, the Gray Ruler is still possible, but with a slightly different interpretation of the oaths. The desire for the well-being of the Empire is also the confidence that he will honestly fulfill his duties to the state. A minimum of corruption and the use of one's strengths not to improve one's own situation, but to combat real problems. We have enough of those who would be glad to see an Emperor who does not play political games for the sake of political games, but to fulfill his duty to the state. Even if he does not become the Emperor, he could become his right hand, for such an ally is extremely valuable, and have comparable influence.
- Location
- Utrecht
Hubert was apparently put into the Celestial college by his family due to his gift manifesting in the ability to predicting the weather (elemental Azyr).
The Celestial college is very much focused on predicting the future and using that to curry favor with nobles.
Something which Hubert has no interest (or talent) in.
Rather than bending accepting that apprentice Hubert was a little different, they tried to make him into something he wasn't, which resulted in him being miserable, and eventually the trait Stunted magic.
Hubert was an aspiring Knight who likes Swordplay... like Mandred, probably. And if he was a bad fit for the College's culture, then so is Mandred.
You see this in a vaccum, then perhaps yeah, Grey College reduces Mandred's chances (maybe).
But in reality, Grey College is the only one where he can become our apprentice, thus giving us as players many more opportunities to influence Mandred himself and other Electors to make him the prefered option.
And if we don't take an active role in helping Mandred, we were already told to expect him to simply become the Reikland Elector. Which is fine in itself.
TLDR : Grey college and apprenticeship is the only one which ends up with Mandred in the front stage of the quest. With more options to influence his future.
- Location
- Netherlands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So far, I'm leaning towards the Brights, but I find the Greys pretty compelling as an option too.
I think that as a Bright Wizard I think he'll wind up in the classic "inspiring war hero and leader" archetype, and I think makes it most likely he'll be widely beloved - especially with a new Everchosen coming up in the near future.
The Greys strike me as by far the best option for encouraging his connection to Ranald, and I'm honestly somewhat dubious whether he'll really be able to click that much with Ranald if he goes elsewhere. I think this option would also naturally end up with Mandred as our apprentice after Eike, because I think he'd definitely be the sort of Grey that would want to walk in Mathilde's footsteps and carry a big fuckin sword.
The Golds... I'm very uncertain which arguments for and against the Golds to put more stock in, and I find it difficult to really come to a conclusion on them.
The Jades... I'd be more compelled by them if the Everchosen wasn't coming up.
I think that as a Bright Wizard I think he'll wind up in the classic "inspiring war hero and leader" archetype, and I think makes it most likely he'll be widely beloved - especially with a new Everchosen coming up in the near future.
The Greys strike me as by far the best option for encouraging his connection to Ranald, and I'm honestly somewhat dubious whether he'll really be able to click that much with Ranald if he goes elsewhere. I think this option would also naturally end up with Mandred as our apprentice after Eike, because I think he'd definitely be the sort of Grey that would want to walk in Mathilde's footsteps and carry a big fuckin sword.
The Golds... I'm very uncertain which arguments for and against the Golds to put more stock in, and I find it difficult to really come to a conclusion on them.
The Jades... I'd be more compelled by them if the Everchosen wasn't coming up.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Not wanting to wade into the discussion more than I already have... I think I'm going to go with the way picklepikkl phrased the Indic Aqshy option:
[] Brights, for investigation into incorporating the Indic paradigm of Aqshy
...with an alternate option for people who just want to see Mandred be taught to be subtle.
[] Brights, for a promise that the Grey Order will teach him Intrigue
I'm fine with either of these. I don't feel the need to vote for the Greys: if they win, then they deserve it, but we shouldn't feel obliged to get him in when he may be a better fit elsewhere.
[] Brights, for investigation into incorporating the Indic paradigm of Aqshy
...with an alternate option for people who just want to see Mandred be taught to be subtle.
[] Brights, for a promise that the Grey Order will teach him Intrigue
I'm fine with either of these. I don't feel the need to vote for the Greys: if they win, then they deserve it, but we shouldn't feel obliged to get him in when he may be a better fit elsewhere.
If he wants to be Emperor, he has the highest stats in the right places. Low learning can be a (manageable) problem for a Wizard, but for a ruler it's not a particularly big deal; same about Intrigue, as long as he sorrounds himself with the right people like a Grey Lady Magister or an Intrigue focused Ranaldian with full divine backing. Decent Piety so probably no problems there. Ideally Stewardship would be higher but it's not bad either, just about average. And remarkably high Diplomacy and Martial, which are probably the most important skills for a leader in the Empire.
Really, if he wasn't a Wizard, I think he'd have a very good chance to be elected. Being a Wizard his chances decrease significantly, but they don't become nearly zero the way they would if he had low Diplo or Martial or Piety or even Stewardship. Especially since he has the Emperor, the Colleges of Magic in general and the very influential Lady Magister Weber in particular backing him with their full support, to say nothing about a certain deity. He still has it difficult, and I wouldn't be surprised if the seat went to Boris or Roswita or someone else, but at least he has a chance.
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I mean, we don't need a promise to teach him intrigue. Mathilde is his goodmother. She can teach him herself anytime she wants.