Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
[Pharological Perspective on Recursion in Elven Enchantment, 2491. Subject: Rare, +1. Insight: Revolutionary, +2. Delivery: Competent, +0. Very Exotic, +2. Varied, +1. Contributor, -3. Classified, -2. Total: +1.]
[Agrological Perspective on Recursion in Elven Enchantment, 2491. Subject: Rare, +1. Insight: Agreeing, +1. Delivery: Competent, +0. Very Exotic, +2. Varied, +1. Contributor, -3. Classified, -2. Total: +0 (rounded to +1).]
The New Waystones
(will be renamed if other Waystone types are created)


Advantages:
Dual Transmission - Leyline + Riverine
Iterative Improvements - Storage Mechanism
No Visible Precious Metals

Flaws:
Very Difficult Storage Mechanism
Requires High Mage and Runesmith

Quirks:
Octagonal Pyramidion
Aesthetically Offensive (hidden by cladding)
Visibly Dwarven Rune
Success, it is said, needs no explanation. I look forward to literally all the Colleges deciding to get in on improving the Foundation enchantment.

---

Oh man. The Runesmithing thing might indeed be a problem... @Boney is it doable to use Mathilde's Kragg-obtained favor alongside some of the options available? Such as, say, asking the Runesmith's Guild, with the Moderate boon? Or is that inapplicable because Mathilde is not part of the Karak Azul Runesmith's Guild and her favor was something she obtained personally, rather than on her behalf?
 
Last edited:
I think we should ask Karak Ankor and if they say no that's it. Mathilde has been a big help already and I think we should allow the dawi to trust her . Plus Mathilde can help figure out the ancestors works.
 
So, the problem raised wrt consistency is asking everyone the same question. Being even-handed. Not singling out the Dwarves as the only ones who get to keep secrets. And since we're on our way to handle the urgently important "pollutant" half of the Sevir question, the less urgent but more potentially divisive "resource" half is bound to come up.

I'm tentatively in favor of Empire to Empire: as the Empires are the signatories of the Waystone Accords, it is the most relevant question on that level. My second favorite is Kragg: while Thorek doesn't like him, Kragg does like us, and if he doesn't tell after we lay out how we see the situation, then that's that and no big deal about international cooperation needs to be made.
 
Oh man. The Runesmithing thing might indeed be a problem... @Boney is it doable to use Mathilde's Kragg-obtained favor alongside some of the options available? Such as, say, asking the Runesmith's Guild, with the Moderate boon? Or is that inapplicable because Mathilde is not part of the Karak Azul Runesmith's Guild and her favor was something she obtained personally, rather than on her behalf?

The best case scenario from using a boon would be information would be granted to Mathilde and not to be shared with anyone else, which would make it of very limited use for the Waystone Project.
 
NGL just seeing a completed Waystone feels really good.

And it also looks like as long as proper supply lines are established, we would be able to crank out more than one or two per half-year. And this is the "complicated" design, too.
 
Mmh, how much do we care about their use of the energy? It's not like we can stop sending it their way long term if the chips came down, eventually everything will go though the network and into the vortex or we end up being stormed to extinction.

My take is that keeping things friendly is more important than prying secrets and thus undermining the very new and fragile order factions inter-polity collaboration. We just opened some doors, let's not have them closed on our faces.
 
Last edited:
Mmh, how much do we care about their use of the energy? It's not like we can stop sending it their way long term if the chips came down, eventually everything will go though the network and into the vortex or we end up being stormed to extinction.
We will eventually care about dividing the energy between polities. We will eventually care about what it's being used for. And I hope we'll care about it in a productive way, prioritizing things like "keep Ulthuan afloat" and "make sure the Runes that protect dwarven souls stay functional" etc etc etc, and whatever other largely positive and constructive projects with high energy demands might pop up.
 
The best case scenario from using a boon would be information would be granted to Mathilde and not to be shared with anyone else, which would make it of very limited use for the Waystone Project.
Yeah, that makes sense.

---

Oh, incidentally...
The Pharological Perspective on Recursion in Elven Enchantment, by L.M. Elrisse (Light), L.M. Egrimm van Horstmann (Light), M.M. Mira (Light), L.M. Stephen (Light), L.M. Mathilde Weber (Grey), et alia, 2491.
The Agrological Perspective on Recursion in Elven Enchantment, by M. Tochter Grunfeld (Jade), L.M. Arburg (Jade), M. Cyrston von Danling (Jade), M. Dieter Vogt (Jade), L.M. Mathilde Weber (Grey), et alia, 2491.
It's so good to see, yet again, how people's respective organizations are starting to chip in way more now that things are reaching a good amount of momentum. Mira, Stephen, Arburg and Cyrston were all people we could have recruited directly into the project - it makes sense they're involved in this.

Nobody wants to be the last to get in on something once it's gotten started and shows promise.
 
We built a new design of Waystone and it actually works without further effort needed to iterate on it. That is an excellent result and better than I expected.

I am not sure about the best option for asking, I need some time to understand the implications of each option for how we could use what we learn, and what it would obligate us to tell and ask others. From initial impressions Okri to Okri or Runesmith to Runesmith seem most like what I expected from the action, but that doesn't mean they are the best options.

Also I had never heard of Pharology before this paper on the Pharological Perspective. It is apparently "the scientific study of lighthouses and signal lights", which seems like an excellent term for the research of the Light Order
 
Last edited:
Mmh, how much do we care about their use of the energy? It's not like we can stop sending it their way long term if the chips came down, eventually everything will go though the network and into the vortex or we end up being stormed to extinction.
Well we might come up with a few mega projects that use it.
 
The configuration you've decided on is one heavily reliant on components designed by the Grey Lords, with only the Dwarven Rune and the Jade riverine transmission being designed by others. If taken as a message, it would be one that argues the wisdom of Laurelorn as the host of the Waystone Project and seeks to justify the nascent alliance Middenland struck with them. But as the piece of magical architecture it actually is, it is a vanguard, and it is in that where one can find the true statement of intent. If all you wanted was to fill already-secured territory to make it proof against the ravages of Morrsleib and storms of magic, or to gradually chip away at the edges of corrupted areas like Sylvania and the Drakwald, then there were much easier ways to accomplish that. This configuration is built for beachheads, to be erected where it is least welcome and to begin the work of draining away the worst pockets of corruption on the continent. In that purpose it not only matches the Waystones of the Golden Age, but exceeds them.
It's certainly a statement, it's pretty much saying over the last couple of years we recreated an essential Artifact from the Golden Age and for the methods of clearing out large amounts of corruption it's even better. And it couldn't have been done as well as it was if Mathilde didn't make the choices she did. We've justified the whole project's existence with this alone.

[Foundation, Light Order: 92+??=??.]

The Grey Lords had delivered a set of enchanting instructions so complex and interwoven that they would have had reason to believe that human enchanters would be capable of no more than slavishly following them. Overwhelming smugness exuded from Elrisse and Egrimm as they reported to you in private that the Grey Lords were severely mistaken. Deep within the pyramid of the Light Order, the thaumaturgic schematics were scrutinized not just by their enchanters, but also by their mathematicians, philosophers, cipherers, and steganographers, as well as anyone else interested in locking horns with minds that predate the Empire. Under the collective scrutiny of minds honed by finding hidden messages in correspondence and hidden mental traps in benign-seeming books and pamphlets, the enchantment schema has been unravelled, studied, and recompiled in ways more conducive to the Light Order's enchantment paradigm. The insights gleaned from the process are making their way through the Colleges' publication process, though it remains to be seen whether anything of practical use could come of it, or it is merely of academic interest as an insight into a specific subset of Elven enchantment techniques. Also produced is a block of shiny white marble, into which the enchantment and its material components have somehow been embedded while leaving the stone intact.
Nice to see the Colleges getting some nice lore out of this.

In the end, a new granite spike comes out of the Jade College and makes its way to Tor Lithanel, and it slots into place without trouble. After weeks spent connecting and disconnecting these pieces, it's somewhat anticlimactic that this time, barely distinguishable from all the others, is when the work is complete. Still, as you look at the uprooted Waystone propped up in the middle of the former ballroom, you feel a tickle of pride and smile. Perhaps it will feel realer once it's actually planted out in the world and fulfilling its actual purpose.
It's crazy to think about it but it's been done. The Project has succeeded beyond most people's expectations, sure there's a lot more that can and should be done but just creating a Waystone is insanely impressive.

For your study of the Waystone Network of the Karaz Ankor, you and Thorek have decided that the safest specimen would be where the flow from Karak Eight Peaks joins that of Karak Azul, directly south of Karaz-a-Karak and directly east of Karak Eight Peaks. The mountain in question stands beside the path from Karak Eight Peaks' East Gate to Death Pass and as such is frequently travelled by merchants and patrolled by the Undumgi, so only a modest escort of Clan Ironbrow Longbeards was deemed necessary. Said escort had harrumphed quite a bit at the presence of an Umgi child until Thorek had explained that she was your Apprentice, at which point she became considered an extension of yourself and her presence on this trip was as beyond question as that of your weaponry.
Dwarves place a lot of importance on the whole Apprenticeship thing.

You'd very much like to be able to take a sample of that stone. You'd even more like to have a very large amount of it to experiment with.
Stone that's had the magic energy of Waystone stuff running through it for countless years would be insanely potent.

After you've taken sufficient observations and notes on the Rune, every one of which match what Thorek expected to find, you take the opportunity to converse with Thorek out of earshot of your Apprentice and escort. "The question of what happens to the magical energies when they reach Karaz-a-Karak is one I have heard broached before, and with a certain intensity," you say, with oblique understatement. "A similar question has been asked regarding energies reaching Ulthuan. The Sevir have the status of both unwanted pollutant and a powerful resource, depending on specific context. Currently most considerations of the Waystone Networks are entirely that of pollutants being removed, but a consideration of a resource being transferred from one polity to another becomes murkier."
Ah yeah that whole thing with the High King yoinking magic from his subjects, that's a mess.

"The precise nature of the asking would also matter. The Karak Azul Runesmiths asking the Karaz-a-Karak Runesmiths would have a different nature to Karak Eight Peaks asking Karaz-a-Karak."

"As would the Empire asking the Karaz Ankor, or the Colleges asking the Runesmiths." Or, you think but don't say, you could just ask Kragg yourself, as the only individual more likely to know the truth of the matter would be the High King, and you have something of a rapport with him. But Kragg is, to put it lightly, not big on revealing secrets to the undeserving, and is also not Thorek's favourite person.
We do have a lot of options when it comes to how we want to handle that.
 
Is this one of those "no-revisiting" votes? Because I could see an argument for "later" being a good option.

Sorta as a "Don't ask questions about how make to grilled chicken before your eggs have hatched" kinda thing. We have a prototype, but there is still a lot steps before we even think of harnessing the energies for mega projects. So why risk political drama over it now, when the answers won't become relevant until later?
 
Last edited:
I'd kinda like to ask as guild-to-guild but with the guild in question being the group dedicated to designing and manufacturing waystones rather than as the college. Mostly because I suspect that, while we've made the prototype, we as the waystone design team will probably be doing a lot of very specialized work over a long term to make specialized models, and I think it's worth starting to position this group to emphasize its international nature and value. Besides, we should ask as the organization we are, and that organization is one with a whole lot of pieces brought from a lot of different places.
 
It's definitely nice to see the completed Waystone! Though I can't help thinking that we might want one or two "simpler" types to be designed. Mathilde makes a good point that this particular type of Waystone is a bit impractical for the purposes of filling in gaps or shoring up existing networks. We might want two or three for Kislev to harden their network, but some easier to produce versions will be much appreciated by everyone, I'm sure.

Aa for the question...I'll have to think about it. All I can say now is that we should definitely think this through hard. Also, that ancient Runesmiths and the people who designed the Waystone network were just as bonkers as Mathiilde in their own way. Carving a giant-ass Rune into a mountain in such a way that it'd be self-reinforcing...that's definitely not something the average person would come up with.
 
Mmh, how much do we care about their use of the energy? It's not like we can stop sending it their way long term if the chips came down, eventually everything will go though the network and into the vortex or we end up being stormed to extinction.
We care, because ideally we turn the new dwarfholds into dwarfholds that supply magic instead of just sap it, meaning we can bring the various existing dwarven megaprohects online.
 
Is this one of those "no-revisiting" votes? Because I could see an argument for "later" being a good option.

Sorta as a "Don't ask questions about how make to grilled chicken before your eggs have hatched" kinda thing. We have a prototype, but there is still a lot steps before we even think of harnessing the energies for mega projects. So why risk political drama over it now, when the answers won't become relevant until later?

Not more so than usual, but I don't see any reason why asking later might have better odds than asking now.
 
The Pharological Perspective on Recursion in Elven Enchantment, by L.M. Elrisse (Light), L.M. Egrimm van Horstmann (Light), M.M. Mira (Light), L.M. Stephen (Light), L.M. Mathilde Weber (Grey), et alia, 2491.
The Agrological Perspective on Recursion in Elven Enchantment, by M. Tochter Grunfeld (Jade), L.M. Arburg (Jade), M. Cyrston von Danling (Jade), M. Dieter Vogt (Jade), L.M. Mathilde Weber (Grey), et alia, 2491.
I see Magister Matriarch Mira is feeling confident enough to put her title on an important (if classified...though not anonymous!) paper! :)

Also, can i just say that having
[ ] Okri to Okri
Ask Kragg on behalf of yourself.
this option feels *so* good, as with basically all the other "kragg thinks of us as like...an actual person who he wants to acknowledge to literally any degree at all?" things

Edit: Looks like the char sheet changes are just removing the lustrian rubbings as an available research item, giving us our new +2 rep/favor for the new papers, and of course the new papers themselves.

A couple other thoughts i had after initially sending this message:

-1: Does anyone know anything interesting about this Dieter Vogt character? A quick search has the wiki claiming that he will have eventually in canon become a lord magister with a major position inTalabheim:
An appointed Magister Lord advises the Countess and Parliament and preserves the abundant wilderness within the Taalbaston from over development. In times of war, the Magister Lord coordinates Magister reinforcements for the militia to shore up defences, though the currently appointed Magister Lord, Dieter Vogt, dislikes getting too involved in the machinations of the Hunters' Council.
But even aside from the wiki being...inconsistently untrustworthy, thats not much detail

-2: @Boney will there be a vote or anything for where this first New Waystone gets installed? seems like a pretty meaningful choice
 
Last edited:
When deciding who to ask a question, almost the first thing one needs to know is who might have the answer you need. In this case we, as readers have information Mathilda doesn't. We know the High King, and only the High King, has the information to provide a complete answer. The High King perspective elements made it clear he thinks he is the only one who knows about the Ancestor runes being linked to the way stone network. Kragg might have some information, but he likely doesn't know enough to provide a complete answer.

So the only two options likely to give a full answer are the ones that involve the High King.
[ ] Empire to Empire
Ask the Karaz Ankor on behalf of the Empire.
[ ] Karak to Karak
Ask Karaz-a-Karak on behalf of Karak Eight Peaks.

I don't see a reason for the High King to give a helpful answer to either approach. Tension between the two dwarf kings makes an honest answer from that approach unlikely. I can't think of a single reason for the High King of the Dawi to trust that young Umgi Emperor, what's his name anyways?
 
That these Runes have survived to this day means they can only have been carved with a full understanding of the discontinuities, catchment funnels, and gap winds that act on the mountains over time, so that these forces will carve the Runes deeper, rather than obliterating them. I cannot even begin to fathom how they were able to so deeply understand an unbroken chain of mountains from Karak Azgal to Karak Vlag more truly than we today do those of our own Karaks."
I suppose it's possible the Old Ones and the Ancestor God were amazing, but I expect that there was a trick to it much like Bok's 5 runes seemed impossibly out of reach.
 
I'd kinda like to ask as guild-to-guild but with the guild in question being the group dedicated to designing and manufacturing waystones rather than as the college. Mostly because I suspect that, while we've made the prototype, we as the waystone design team will probably be doing a lot of very specialized work over a long term to make specialized models, and I think it's worth starting to position this group to emphasize its international nature and value. Besides, we should ask as the organization we are, and that organization is one with a whole lot of pieces brought from a lot of different places.
Guild-to-guild sits weird with me. Since, in the normal state of affairs Dwarven guilds sharing secrets with one another is a thing that's been hammered home as the one thing that Dwarven guilds don't do.

On the other hand, Guilds are rarely so comparable, as the Runesmiths and the Colleges of Magic.

I suppose there's shades there then of the stances of the Weavers' guilds of two different Karaks, but I'm blanking right now on just how transferable secrets are within two branches of the same guild, and I don't know if the dwarves would see it that way.
It's definitely nice to see the completed Waystone! Though I can't help thinking that we might want one or two "simpler" types to be designed. Mathilde makes a good point that this particular type of Waystone is a bit impractical for the purposes of filling in gaps or shoring up existing networks. We might want two or three for Kislev to harden their network, but some easier to produce versions will be much appreciated by everyone, I'm sure.

Aa for the question...I'll have to think about it. All I can say now is that we should definitely think this through hard. Also, that ancient Runesmiths and the people who designed the Waystone network were just as bonkers as Mathiilde in their own way. Carving a giant-ass Rune into a mountain in such a way that it'd be self-reinforcing...that's definitely not something the average person would come up with.
Yeah, seeing how this worked out has me wondering how well a dedicated forward-waterway and emergency response waystone, like the FEMA model I proposed during the vote, would pair up with this one.

A kind of a sword to it's shield, as it were: One big, solid and impressive piece, paired with a line of cheaper and less capable (but more expendable) siblings for forward deployment along a notable waterway... Or Mother and daughter models, to put it in another way.
 
I personally think we need to ask this question and we need to ask it to the High king.
This is a matter that will come to a head and when it does we want to either have instigated it or knew beforehand it would happen.
What I'm saying is better to poke the dragon yourself then have it wake up whenever.
 
Voting is open
Back
Top