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I think you underrate the value of what KAU has to offer. I mean, sure they give the Humans and Dwarves some military advantages offered by their books. But they also get in exchange things like GUNS, and the potential access to the corpus of all libraries KAU has/will have the permission to access.

All sides end up strongly strengthened, but considering their isolation, the Eonir might be getting even more than us.
We aren't exactly the ones selling guns from the Karak.

And we've been explicitly warned previously against literally providing arms to the elves that were just in a conflict with an Imperial province a decade ago.
 
If we were to trade firearms knowledge to the elves, we'd probably also want to do the copy-corpus action on the Imperial Gunnery School library first. No point in doing a shoddy job of selling military secrets, after all.
 
We aren't exactly the ones selling guns from the Karak.

And we've been explicitly warned previously against literally providing arms to the elves that were just in a conflict with an Imperial province a decade ago.

Providing arms for free(-ish) is one thing. An equal exchange is another. I'd think Grey Magister Lords are diplomats of the empire habilitated to trade such secrets.

Plus, the tech is out there. With contact between cultures the Eonir are bound to get the technologies one day or another as they get out of their isolation. It's not like guns are such an elusive technology considering the many factions with guns and/or cannons.

But it doesn't mean getting the info faster isn't worth it for the Eonir. Better be the ones to share the tech in a show of good will in exchange for their own techs. All parties benefit.
 
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Even if we assume that giving guns to the Eonir would not result in them attacking Nordland or there being some kind of blowback against the EIC (and we should in fact not assume this), it's quite possible that there might be some other problems which may make a gun trade less desirable.

For instance, the Eonir could have culture shock from trying to adapt to human weapons. They've been using bows for millennia, it might hurt their pride to see the need to resort to human guns. It's one thing to get a handful as gifts from a neighbor, because you can magnanimously accept them, but importing them en masse sends a message of sorts.

Or perhaps they'd only get enough guns for a small specialized force that needs the firepower but doesn't need much stealth. Or they might reject them entirely, since they'd also have to get gunpowder from the Empire, and unless they went to the trouble of establishing their own gunpowder industry (unlikely), it'd mean long-term reliance on them to keep using guns.

Really, there's a lot of possibilities that make this less appealing for them.
 
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Assuming selling Ithilmar to the Eonir does not cause the same issues as selling Guns, is their a way to use the proposed trade action to empower one of the remaining Queen Loyalist Houses we havent interacted with yet or flip an Isolationist House?
 
Does laureon really need guns anyway? would that really singficanlty improve there millitarty esp in the this magic world where they can prob fire roughfly as many arrows as a gun could fire bullet?
 
Does laureon really need guns anyway? would that really singficanlty improve there millitarty esp in the this magic world where they can prob fire roughfly as many arrows as a gun could fire bullet?
The Warden of the Ward of Rain seemed quite taken with them.

('The shot is better than arrows but so much cheaper than the special arrows')
 
Assuming selling Ithilmar to the Eonir does not cause the same issues as selling Guns, is their a way to use the proposed trade action to empower one of the remaining Queen Loyalist Houses we havent interacted with yet or flip an Isolationist House?
Y'see this is something I've been thinking of myself, but I'm not entirely sure where to go with it.

My best guess is that with House Miriel being isolationist Vaul worshippers and smiths, Ithilmar will mean more to them than most houses, so it may be wise to approach them and make them partners in the EIC's efforts to acquire Ithilmar.
Then set up an arrangement where they pay a tiny retainer to get the EIC to watch and see if adventurers or someone else manages to turn up any extra bits of Ithilmar elsewhere. Even if the EIC only finds a bit more every other decade it might be worthwhile to them. Thus they can't remain isolationist?

I've also considered trying to approach house Ellemakil about Ulric worship or talk to house Thyriolan more about waystones.
 
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What Laurelorn actually needs to improve its military is about 10,000 medium quality breastplates to reequip its metal starved forest-born irregulars.
Yeah, there was a Boneypost a while back saying that when a serious threat rolls into Laurelorn's forest, the Forestborn get massacred until the Cityborn get around to marching out and doing something about it decked out in their full panoply of enchanted gear and so on. They're very much not lacking in high-end gear, it's just all held in the hands of the Cityborn elite.
 
Assuming selling Ithilmar to the Eonir does not cause the same issues as selling Guns, is their a way to use the proposed trade action to empower one of the remaining Queen Loyalist Houses we havent interacted with yet or flip an Isolationist House?
The difference is this: even with a lot of luck we are not going to find that much ithilmar across the whole of the Empire, and Laurelorn could very well decide to use it as a key part of an enchantment rather than for warfare. At worst, the amounts we would be able to secure for Laurelorn could probably be used to protect a handful of elite troops.

Similarly, yes, we have to option to trade ores to the Eonir and the Karaz Ankor is already trading ingots to them, but those are (respectively) raw materials and goods-in-process. They are not necessarily destined to be used for warfare and if they choose to use them for that (specifically, against Nordland), that's on them.

But guns? Guns are finished goods explicitly used for war, and we have the capacity to sell them in large amounts. That would get a lot of eyebrows raised, particularly given the Nordland thing.
 
If only a new source of lightweight (silk) and strong (WE-silk!) armour would appear
They would be interested, but it's more likely that they're so far north that they won't see much of it soon in trade(after all, they produce their own silk, they can meet enough of their own market for silks that they're not likely to be a high priority for merchants looking for K8P silk buyers), and instead a lot of any we-silk is going to get bought out by rich people closer to Barak Varr and Taalites all over the place(if you're devout you're not supposed to use metal armor, so We-silk is an amazingly effective addition to the field of cloth armor that will fascinate Taalites and may start a major fad/fashion.)
 
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@Boney If we sent Eike to the College classes on [ ] The Creation of Artificial Familiars, would that fall under the purview of her Natural Alchemist trait?

I'm not really sure on the level of overlap there given how weird artificial familiars are.

If they do involve the same kinds of process, that seems like a fairly natural path to her earning a familiar while simultaneously engaging with interests she's already displayed.

She'd be able to use her Natural Alchemist skill to intuit most of what that class would teach, and she can get the rest out of books.

Also, is anything available on Kurgan magic through the College Book Purchase option, for researching our artifacts?

The only parts of their magic that have any real level of documentation are filed under Chaos Sorcery.

I am still convinced that the majority of Grey executions (not all of them, there are bound to be some greedy idiots who just deserved it, but the majority) is just a sneaky way to "disappear" an agent and "appear" a different one elsewhere without raising suspicions.

The execution rate and draconic laws purported by the books makes no sense otherwise, especially considering the assets held not only by us but also by other Grey Magisters we know.

Another contributing factor might be the secrecy that the existence of magic leads to. Someone getting their door kicked down, being subject to prolonged and exhaustive interrogation, and their life and the rest of their belongings being scrutinized in terrifying detail because they decided to string their lute with horsehair sounds like tyranny and madness if you don't know that they might be a pair of fancy shoes and a triple murder away from killing a city. But that being a thing isn't exactly something you want to broadcast, so there's no good explanation the authorities can give.
 
Another contributing factor might be the secrecy that the existence of magic leads to. Someone getting their door kicked down, being subject to prolonged and exhaustive interrogation, and their life and the rest of their belongings being scrutinized in terrifying detail because they decided to string their lute with horsehair sounds like tyranny and madness if you don't know that they might be a pair of fancy shoes and a triple murder away from killing a city. But that being a thing isn't exactly something you want to broadcast, so there's no good explanation the authorities can give.
I think storryeater may have meant 'Grey executions' as in 'times when the Grey Order executes its own because they have to be harsh on themselves', not as in 'this Grey executed some dude'.
 
I'm not convinced that the Burghers of Marienberg profit from other people's misery more than the feudal lords of the Empire. Their misery intensity proportional to their profit may well even be significantly less.

The reason we keep screwing over Marienberg is because we're a powerful leader within an aggressive revanchist empire that wants to reconquer its ex-imperial possession, so whatever we do to strengthen our empire relatively weakens it's potential victims.

Or at least that's what someone whose not a supporter of the Imperial reconquest of Marienberg might say.
If we ignore that the Empire is a early modern feudal federation wherein Mariengburg had largely the same political autonomy and power as every other member of the federation, that they have orchestrated deliberate campaigns of destruction to try and sack and raze any noteworthy port or city center the Empire has on the coast, as part of a policy of forcing dependency on Marienburg and cultivated naval weakness…and those deniable raids were ostensibly done during peacetime if I understand things correctly.

Marienburg (or at least the wealthy elite oligarchs) absolutely has their own context for their actions, but there's no world where I can begrudge the population of an early modern burgeoning nation state for being upset their former countrymen are deliberately pursuing a state policy that has their vulnerability to slavers that will debase them and sacrifice their souls to Chaos as a positive indicator for success. What people wouldn't be pissed their neighbor is undermining any naval spending intended in large part to try and prevent slave raids that threaten their immortal soul?
 
They would be interested, but it's more likely that they're so far north that they won't see much of it soon in trade(after all, they produce their own silk, they can meet enough of their own market for silks that they're not likely to be a high priority for merchants looking for K8P silk buyers), and instead a lot of any we-silk is going to get bought out by rich people closer to Barak Varr and Taalites all over the place(if you're devout you're not supposed to use metal armor, so We-silk is an amazingly effective addition to the field of cloth armor that will fascinate Taalites and may start a major fad/fashion.)
My dude, I don't think you realize the real potential of We-silk armor.

We're talking about very light, full-coverage, extremely stab-and-slash-resistant, fire-resistant, somewhat flexible armor that is also thin enough that you can put a good amount of padding over or under it.

It doesn't render steel plate armor obsolete because you can actually combine the two for increased effectiveness. It doesn't render ithilmar obsolete because you can't make any weapons or stiff objects with it (and ithilmar may be a fair bit lighter, even). And it obviously doesn't render gromril obsolete because gromril is WAY tougher and is also second to none when it comes to runework (and you can make amazing weapons out of it). Leather/padded armor won't be obsolete because you can combine it with silk armor and padding will be pretty important for really bringing out the silk armor's potential.

Otherwise, though? Any general/soldier/wizard/knight that understands what it is and what they can do with it (and can obtain it affordably) will want it. Bretonnian Knights will want it, for their horses if nothing else, because their horses are amazing and silk armor that can save their horses from errant slashes or a lucky arrow will be appreciated.

And that's not even mentioning the alchemical and enchanting possibilities. We-silk could easily have potential for Ulgu, Ghur, and Ghyran, with possible utility as Chamon and Hysh properties depending on preparation and whether or not the orderly, intricate patterns of the silk (and its source from a hive mind) and its very tough nature sufficiently come into play.

I imagine that the Colleges will be very eager to get some We-silk armor for their wizards when the prices become somewhat reasonable because very flexible and lightweight (and fire-resistant) clothes that double as armor is undoubtedly valuable.

Yes, it will be VERY popular with Taalite warriors...once it becomes sufficiently known and the prices come down enough to be affordable to those who don't really put a lot of stock into material wealth in general.
 
Ancient Mongol warriors used silk under armor. Now Silk is hard to pierce or cut in real life. We silk is strong enough a dawi with a axe would have trouble cutting it. We silk will be a game changer for anyone who can afford it because it can be worn under armor. Sure it is not going to stop a giant, Minotaur , or something huge from crushing you. But it will help with say any basic weapon from a goblin, ork, skaven and so on. It is so valuable we can sell it to knights, dawi kings for throngs, elector counts, Kislev guard and anyone else eight peaks think is worth it.
 
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Ancient Mongol warriors used silk under armor. Now Sol is hard to pierce or cut. We silk is strong enough a dawi with a axe would have trouble cutting it. We silk will be a game changer for anyone who can afford it because it can be worn under armor. Sure it is not going to stop a giant, Minotaur , or something huge from crushing you. But it will help with say any basic weapon from a goblin, ork, skaven and so on. It is so valuable we can sell it to knights, dawi kings for throngs, elector counts, Kislev guard and anyone else eight peaks think is worth it.
This, very much. Spider silk is, in fact, stronger than steel, and the We are giant spiders that hunt skaven and orcs. They produce it in large volumes and in a variety of types.

The biggest reason we don't use any kind of silk armor in modern times is because we literally can't produce the stuff in the same quality at an economical scale. We can make really impressive stuff through other means, but none of it has the same kind of qualities at such thinness and light weight (and flexibility).

In a world where kevlar and ceramic alloys don't exist, We-silk armor is going to be a lucrative revenue stream for K8P all by itself. And I'm pretty sure Barak Varr is going to make a point of not shipping any of it to Marienburg. Sure, others might sail to Barak Varr to buy some and then resell it at Marienburg, but chances are good that buying it at Barak Varr from a sea-based ship (that isn't dwarven) will come at a high markup.
 
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It might take awhile for the price of we-silk to come down because I expect that to begin with it's going to sell for something between it's weight in gold and sliver. Everyone in the empire and beyond important enough to worry about a surprise knife is going to very much appreciate light comfortable armor that can stop that.

But at those kinds of prices distance is no obstacle.
 
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It's probably too late but can I drum up possible interest for purchasing Esoteric level in Eonir Trade books (150 gold) to become more familiar with Elven trade right before we visit Lothern? Lots of people have already sought Mathilde ought about that recently, and more bonuses/insight there might unlock opportunities during Elfcation. With the Black Water canal opening, the EIC's income is going to increase by a lot this coming turn so adding this extra purchase would likely be net neutral. Thoughts?

[x] [PURCHASE] Ulric (Imperial Esoteric, 100 gc)
[x] [LIBRARY] Back-fill: Social science
 
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Ancient Mongol warriors used silk under armor. Now Silk is hard to pierce or cut in real life. We silk is strong enough a dawi with a axe would have trouble cutting it. We silk will be a game changer for anyone who can afford it because it can be worn under armor. Sure it is not going to stop a giant, Minotaur , or something huge from crushing you. But it will help with say any basic weapon from a goblin, ork, skaven and so on. It is so valuable we can sell it to knights, dawi kings for throngs, elector counts, Kislev guard and anyone else eight peaks think is worth it.
Huh, the Kislev guard thing reminds me that in cold enough weather metal armor is a hazard because it can get cold enough that touching it with a hand causes frostbite or can stick to flesh and potentially rip skin off, well before the weather necessarily gets cold enough that a fighting man is disabled by the lethargy loss of capability to low temperature environments.

Y'see this is something I've been thinking of myself, but I'm not entirely sure where to go with it.

My best guess is that with House Miriel being isolationist Vaul worshippers and smiths, Ithilmar will mean more to them than most houses, so it may be wise to approach them and make them partners in the EIC's efforts to acquire Ithilmar.
Then set up an arrangement where they pay a tiny retainer to get the EIC to watch and see if adventurers or someone else manages to turn up any extra bits of Ithilmar elsewhere. Even if the EIC only finds a bit more every other decade it might be worthwhile to them. Thus they can't remain isolationist?

I've also considered trying to approach house Ellemakil about Ulric worship or talk to house Thyriolan more about waystones.
Hey @Boney based on all my thoughts before, Is getting all that Ithilmar a potential route to influencing house Miriel away from isolationism? Is there anything we should be prioritizing doing first or at the same time in order to try to produce that kind of political effect?
 
It's probably too late but can I drum up possible interest for purchasing Esoteric level in Eonir Trade books (150 gold) to become more familiar with Elven trade right before we visit Lothern? Lots of people have already sought her ought about that recently, and more bonuses there might unlock opportunities during Elfcation. With the Black Water canal opening, the EIC's income is going to increase by a lot this coming turn so adding this extra purchase would likely be net neutral. Thoughts?

[x] [PURCHASE] Ulric (Imperial Esoteric, 100 gc), Eonir Trade (Esoteric, 150 gc)
[x] [LIBRARY] Back-fill: Social science
I dont think they would have trade books, let alone up to Esoteric.

their defining trade policy up until the last few years has been 'we don't'.
 
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