Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Do you include Wolf in that?
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
- Location
- Places
A god doing it is pretty significant and way cooler from a mystical perspective.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Because Marienburg have set things up where they profit on other people's misery so therefore whenever we end up helping anyone it ends up being bad for Marienburg. Might as well ask why we are screwing chaos with our every action.
[X] [LIBRARY] Back-fill: Social science
[X] [DWARF] No purchase.
[X] [COLLEGE] No purchase.
The Tally doesn't make any sense to me.
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I'm not convinced that the Burghers of Marienberg profit from other people's misery more than the feudal lords of the Empire. Their misery intensity proportional to their profit may well even be significantly less.
The reason we keep screwing over Marienberg is because we're a powerful leader within an aggressive revanchist empire that wants to reconquer its ex-imperial possession, so whatever we do to strengthen our empire relatively weakens it's potential victims.
Or at least that's what someone whose not a supporter of the Imperial reconquest of Marienberg might say.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
The feudal lords of the empire all things being equal would rather they people under them be living happy prosperous lifes if only because that means that they can tax them more well Marienberg on the other hand depends on the everyone around them being miserable.
Marienberg depends on everyone around them having enough liquid cash and a high enough standard of living to buy (mostly luxury) goods traded large distances over the sea.
The Empire's feudal lords can extract value by appropriating agricultural products and labour as a tax in kind.
The Burghers of Marienberg are completely dependent on having relatively prosperous and so relatively happy people to trade with.
The Empire's feudal lords can do quite nicely if their peasants are reduced to barely above subsistence and too poor to take part in the cash economy.
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Thebigpieman
I've got this, I think.
- Location
- United States
Are we starting yet another debate on the morality of Marienburg vs The Empire? Ya'll want to make a containment thread or something because it feels as if we've had way too many of these recently.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
It's also the case that while Ranald did send us Wolf on a Watsonian level, on a Doylist level Wolf was the result of an action Mathilde took: we took a Lessons Learned (Piety) action the turn before leaving for K8P and rolled a natural 98, which is what resulted in a wolf puppy with familiar potential being dropped on our doorstep (and then we annihilated the roll for familiar bonding). So it was still an exercise of agency on Mathilde's part.
What are you having trouble with? I'd be happy to demystify it for you.
There are a few discussion topics that inevitably reach autocatalytic levels, but right now the thread is quiet (vote is pretty locked up and there's not much else to discuss besides trying to preplan T43) so it's not like it's crowding out other discussion. I mostly just scroll past when the thread starts chasing its tail about one of its perennial bugbears.
There's a minor visual/UI bug that causes certain options to be mislabeled. It occurs when two different sub-options have the same text—[Dwarf] No Purchase and [College] No Purchase, for example. Both consist of the phrase "no purchase", so it displays the wrong text (in this case, [Dwarf] No Purchase when it should say [College] instead).
The vote count is correct, and the labels will be corrected when the final vote is tallied. It's just a minor display issue that appears during the voting period.
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
And yet, they keep being such atrocious neighbours that everyone who shares a land border with them wants to conquer them, and three-fifths of the people they regularly trade with overseas have burned their city to the ground in the past. Only two of them did it for plunder.
If Marienburg is so dependent on the neighbours they trade with enjoying prosperous existences and a desire to do business with them, why have they spent the entirety of their independence deliberately thumbing their noses at everyone around them? Or actively arranging to have their infrastructure burned down to the flagstones?
Either they are actively profiting off of people's misery, or the prosperity is a complete non-factor and they derive sadistic joy at kicking down everyone around them. Unless you mean to suggest that the biggest mercantilist city in the setting is chronically incompetent at doing a mercantilism and has spent several decades actively sabotaging their own interests for no future or even short-term gain?
In the meanwhile, the Empire's feudal lords are doing exactly as real-life's feudal lords did; swallowing their pride and throwing in their lot with the merchant class and guilds, because trying to rely on tax income from subsistence farmers in a post-medieval economy is leaving them destitute.
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- Location
- Australia
I think outright telling her to get a familiar is the wrong choice, but I think an actual simple suggestion would be alright. Eike's a fan of Mathilde, but the vibes I'm reading don't say she's the type to go along with that suggestion unless she legit thought it was good herself. The most she'd think from a suggestion is that her teacher's confident in her abilities and telling her she's ready that's what she wants.
The main issue is that even a suggestion would worsen Eike's studies in all other areas because that kind of suggestion requires wordcount to reflect and wordcount is never free. Should be fine as a social action though.
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Of course not, it is where the Ulgu dragons live.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I don't see any particular benefit to poking Eike into getting a familiar - I'd rather just spend AP normally and have her accompany us on other actions like usual.
Maybe we could learn Kislevarin this turn and have her join us on that? It's a useful life skill!
Maybe we could learn Kislevarin this turn and have her join us on that? It's a useful life skill!
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
That sounds mean and ill-tempered; and not something you want your friendly neighbourhood necromancer to be doing.
So instead what we'll do is raise the skeletons of the loyal Imperial citizens from back before they rebelled and then have them pretend to make Marienburg rejoin the Empire legally.
There, a much more moral use of the dark powers whose employment curses both the land and the soul.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
...you can't? It's been bugging me for ages, I'm 100% going to try to patch that gap at some point.
You know, at this point, considering the current state AND the future prospects of our library, I think it might be time for :
[ ] KAU : Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (Library of Mournings)
Difficulty will depend on the size, prestige, and disposition of the library in question, and the relative impressiveness of Kron-Azril-Ungol.
Getting access to magical and military topics would 100 % be worth whatever they ask for and by now we have much to offer, especially considering all the libraries KAU have access to and could access on demand. In fact, I think there is a possibility for a full long term partenership between both libraries that would be VERY mutually beneficial.
Sure the Eonir might have reservations about giving militarily significant treatises, but we have the means to offer an equivalent exchange so surely there is common ground to be found.
Hell, a partnership might even be a way to bring in another Great House or two if the scale is grand enough. After all, if the Eonir decide to try and match K8P's corpus they also are going to need oversight and a lot of manpower (elfpower?).
[ ] KAU : Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (Library of Mournings)
Difficulty will depend on the size, prestige, and disposition of the library in question, and the relative impressiveness of Kron-Azril-Ungol.
Getting access to magical and military topics would 100 % be worth whatever they ask for and by now we have much to offer, especially considering all the libraries KAU have access to and could access on demand. In fact, I think there is a possibility for a full long term partenership between both libraries that would be VERY mutually beneficial.
Sure the Eonir might have reservations about giving militarily significant treatises, but we have the means to offer an equivalent exchange so surely there is common ground to be found.
Hell, a partnership might even be a way to bring in another Great House or two if the scale is grand enough. After all, if the Eonir decide to try and match K8P's corpus they also are going to need oversight and a lot of manpower (elfpower?).
Frankly, I imagine that the difficulty in this case is going to be "Nope, not happening, ever".
They weren't willing to give Mathilde unrestricted access to those sensitive topics even while she is working for an infrastructure project that they are intensely interested in and offering Library of Mournings access as a selling point.
I just can't see a partnership happening.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
I mean, even if a full exchange of all materials is off the table, a partnership involving a more limited exchange does seem quite plausible.
Especially if you consider:
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- Location
- North Wales
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I expect that before we get to the point where completionism wins the day, we'll have negotiated new publishing contracts in either Lothern, Bretonnia or Kislev. And then the push will be to spend years expanding our full Imperial/Dwarf bonuses with corresponding volumes from those realms.
Or we'll have signed away control over KAU/EIC to reclaim the sixth AP, will no longer be making the purchasing decisions, and will be back to buying out of pocket/out of our boss' pocket again.
Maybe I'm wrong, though, and completionism lures in a bunch of voters. There's still I think a few people who want to complete the Grey College spellbook too, despite 2/3 of the missing spells being covered by better versions we already know.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Same, though I can't see us patching the gap for another few turns at least; there are too many other topics from non-Collegiate sources we're interested in. We might out-of-pocket it, though, if we get bonkers CF and money.
Another possibility, of course, is negotiating to add the Light Order's library as a partner.
I think we have no chance until 1) the mist-bridge is complete, allowing for military aid and trade to flow into Laurelorn from the Empire on a large scale 2) the Electors ratify some sort of normalization of relations with Laurelorn and recognition of their borders. Until that happens, the odds that the Empire and Laurelorn find themselves at odds sometime in the next few human generations are way too damn high for them to countenance literally opening the books of their military preparation to us.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Unlike many non-magical topics, I expect the other winds to come up during the course of Mathilde examining various bits of loot at the very least.
For the spellbook I think Cloak Activity is a useful spell for niche applications, and the fact that we can pick up the other two spells while we're at it is a bonus.
The Ilthilmar action beckons!
A limited partnership is plausible yeah.
I think those are necessary but probably not sufficient.
I think the Eonir also need an example that shows them that the Empire is sufficiently more useful to them with knowledge from their library that it compensates for the additional danger they will then present.
I'm not sure how to achieve that, but something like the Battle Wizard deployment to Sylvania but instead targeted at all the remaining beastmen of Laurelorn might be a way to do it.
- Location
- Oklahoma
That feels like its going way too far in the other direction- mass deployment of Battle Wizards is a huge deal.
Not to mention that Laurelorn might not be friendly to all the nuke wizards getting deployed in their forest- Sylvania is already a dhar blasted wasteland so it hardly makes a difference there, but Laurelorn would probably like there to still be a forest left to live in after the beastmen are kicked out.
I think you underrate the value of what KAU has to offer. I mean, sure Laurelorn would give the Humans and Dwarves some military advantages through giving access to military and magical topics. But they also get in exchange things like GUNS, and the potential access to the corpus of all libraries KAU has/will have the permission to access.
All sides end up strongly strengthened, but considering their isolation, the Eonir might be getting even more than us. Imagine the terror of wood elves with guns and cannons...
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