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Well, that's a bit more reasonable, but we still don't know if it's actually doable or how safe the end-result would end up being. Like, Boney said "It seems logical that it could be possible to adapt daemonological techniques that make Daemons into familiars to work on Apparitions", but I'll repeat what Algard said once: Logic often has nothing to do with our profession.

This isn't like with actually making an Apparition spell, where we had someone else's notes and a previous example of success to see if it was a good idea. We'd need to find those daemonological means used to bind Daemons into familiars, adapt it for Apparitions, finding another Apparition, actually turning it into a familiar, pray it doesn't backfire on us horribly or have weird and undesirable side-effects, and then probably spend who knows how many actions training it to our satisfaction.
Something that may have been missed is this later post by Boney:
Does necromancy have anything similar with ghosts?
There's a lot of similarities between necromancy in general and familiar creation and binding techniques.
Finding daemonological techniques is a dead end since we know no daemonologists, but we have the penultimate of necromantic texts and practice in reverse-engineering necromancy in the form of MMM.

Training the apparition familiar can probably be skipped given its built-in skills.

Mathilde's got a great deal of notes on apparitions and has experience with apparitions and turning necromantic theory towards benevolent ends. It would still require AP, absolutely, and we'd have to hope it won't backfire or result in undesirable side-effects like literally all personal magical innovation we've ever done, but the foundations are there. All it'd take is work and luck.
 
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I thought the thread voted for the Waystone Project instead of the Ranaldian High Priestess. The QM rail-roading questers onto that choice regardless of the final tally doesn't strike me as wise.
It was probably the task Ranald would have suggested, the quest prioritized other things.
Someone went and asked what Ranald would tell us to do if we asked for a life mission. So I assumed that it would be the same as the last task he was interested in us doing, the avoidance of railroading is in fact the reason why we don't ask Ranald to make all of our decisions.
 
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Finding daemonological techniques is a dead end since we know no daemonologists, but we have the penultimate of necromantic texts and practice in reverse-engineering necromancy in the form of MMM.

Training the apparition familiar can probably be skipped given its built-in skills.

Mathilde's got a great deal of notes on apparitions and has experience with apparitions and turning necromantic theory towards benevolent ends. It would still require AP, absolutely, and we'd have to hope it won't backfire or result in undesirable side-effects like literally all personal magical innovation we've ever done, but the foundations are there. All it'd take is work and luck.
I still really don't see the need. If we really want something that can defend others, scout, distract, speak, or perform complex tasks, there's a number of existing people who can do those things. Johann, for one, since most of the time it's fine to bring him along on an adventure, and even Wolf could safely do some of those things, given that he can speak and is linked to our mind and can sort of act like a radio as long as we're not too far away from him. Hell, if we really wanted him to fight alongside us, we could really really buff him and get him some strong equipment and see where that goes.

No offense meant, since you've clearly put thought into this, but I'm really not feeling it.
 
www.theoldworld.com

The Old World - The Fantasy Miniatures Game

The Fantasy Miniatures Game...

GW at long last has released a detailed version of the Old World map. There's already a dozen retcons in the making! I am proud of their stunning efficiency. :V

Impressions, in no particular order.

It looks like they've gone with a complete reimagining of the Time of Three Emperors. In original canon it was split into two rough time periods: first it was the Ottilian Emperors in Talabecland, the Wolf Emperors in Middenland, and the Elected Emperors from everywhere else, and then the Ottilian Emperors still, the Marienburger Emperors, and the Reiklander Emperors. This seems to have mashed both periods together and cut out the regular redrawing of the maps that made the period so chaotic by splitting it into four 'great provinces'. The Wolf Emperors have Middenland, Ostland, Hochland and the eastern half of Nordland. the Marienburger Emperors have Marienburg, half of Drakwald, and the Laurelorn half of Nordland, which seems like a pretty unenviable position. The Ottilian Emperors - if they still originated with Ottilia - have, uh, just Talabecland, and it's described as the largest despite being visibly smaller than mega-Middenland. Then you've got the Reiklander Emperor, who just has Reikland and a chunk of northern Wissenland. Then the southern half of the Empire belongs to none of these states - are they neutral or do their loyalties shift around?

Stirland is... odd. What year does this take place in again? I suppose it makes sense if this is post-1st Vampire War but pre-3rd, but it's an odd choice to formalize their partial control of it by drawing a line right along the middle of Sylvania. Mootland's borders has always been an ambiguity, with some maps showing it hemmed in by southern Stirland and others having it extend all the way to the mountains. But in this they seem to have just conflated both versions together again, giving Mootland the ambiguous territory but having the formerly explicitly Stirlandian town of Sigmaringen within it.

Karak Angazhar has has been formally promoted to Major Young Hold, I see. It used to be a minor Hold to Karak Hirn's major one, but it grew in prominence from things like adventures set in Averland. What's odd is that Karak Azgaraz didn't get the same promotion, despite being the Reikland equivalent and getting a lot more attention. IIRC Azgaraz mostly rose to prominence in 4e, maybe the Old World team is sticking with older stuff?

Karak Vlag is in ruins, as other people have pointed out, but it's also been relocated from High Pass to... swamps on the western end of Zorn Uzkul? That's a bloody strange place for a Karak unless you're trying to do a Monty Python shoutout. Then again, it might be tied in to the Kislev lore changes that has them colonizing the northern portions of the Dark Lands. That would solve an old oddity about how Kislev is characterized by neighbouring the horse nomads of the Great Steppes but there's actually a considerable distance between the two - I don't think it ever came up but my handwave is that they cross over the Frozen Sea and through the Goromadny. Or it would solve it if they hadn't apparently wiped out the Kurgan lands entirely and moved the Hobgoblin Khanates west.

There's a lot more forest in Kislev than I remember. It looks like the Dukhlys Forest - wait, it's Dukhly's Forest now? - takes up a good third of Kislev. Kislev also has a big chunk of what we'd think of as Ostland, I wonder if this is a retcon or if this takes place in the era before relations were normalized between Kislev and the Empire(s) and the border was properly established where it is now.

Uzkulak, the Place of the Skull, is no longer on the Skull Road. Okay. I suppose Kislev might have rerouted the path? And it looks like Kislev has a fort on the gulf that gives Uzkulak access to the Frozen Sea, so I don't know what the point of Uzkulak is any more.

I see there's an 'Ancient Chaos Temple' called Chamon Dharek where Castle Alexandronov is in older lore and in Total Warhammer. That's a strange departure. Are they ignoring that lore, or are they implying that Castle Alexandronov (whose date of founding is ambiguous) was built in later years on top of its ruins?

This is before the Great War Against Chaos, so the Norse Dwarves are still around. There's a lot of unlabelled and unexplained Dwarf heads throughout the Goromadny, which suggests a presence much closer to Kislev than in earlier canon. I wonder if they're still out of contact, or if they're going to be reconnected to the wider world in this version of canon.

Interesting to see they've mapped inner Norsca instead of just leaving it a vague 'here be vikings' blob. A good amount of forests instead of it being wall to wall mountains, which is good for explaining how there's any sort of significant population coming out of it, but I'd have given it more and longer fjords and rivers. As it is, half of Norsca wouldn't have any reason to even know what a boat is.

Karak Varn is not only back, it's relocated to right next to the Border Princes. The whole point of it was to mine the deposits under the Black Water, that's what made it the brother Karak to Zhufbar.

Lol at the Border Princes getting more lore than Tilea and Estalia combined. The whole concept is a place where micronations rise and fall in the space of an afternoon.

Karak Eight Peaks is back, but Karak Izril isn't. Wouldn't have guessed that.

I don't know how much to read into Athel Loren and Laurelorn having the exact same escutcheon, but it worries me.

I am interested to see that Khemri has been split into explicitly demarcated kingdoms. Their modern politics has always been underexplored and underutilized.

Lol at the complete lack of even an attempt to make the geography of Mondidier Pass make sense. Interesting that this map would seem to suggest that Bretonnia controls the entire Grey Mountains north of Axe Bite Pass, that area's just been sort of handwaved.

Overall, a lot of opportunities to make interesting decisions squandered in favour of making a lot of really weird major retcons that solve only some of the lingering ambiguities and make others even worse.
 
I see there's an 'Ancient Chaos Temple' called Chamon Dharek where Castle Alexandronov is in older lore and in Total Warhammer. That's a strange departure. Are they ignoring that lore, or are they implying that Castle Alexandronov (whose date of founding is ambiguous) was built in later years on top of its ruins?
Chamon Dharek is straight from Realm of the Ice Queen. A grave mound considered sacred by the Kurgan and thoroughly tainted. Used as a waystop by Norscans and other chaos tribesmen.
 
I can only offer possible explanations for Varn and Eight Peaks, as them being a mining expedition and another Ironhammer Claimant before Belegar. This is my guy feeling because the Arcane Journals for each faction are supposed to have armies of infamy in them, so those two may be good contenders for filling in those roles for the Dwarfs. The lack of building around the Northern Worlds Edge and Grey Mountains is maybe probably more to do with the focus on the border princes for this early part of the narrative. This thing may get filled out more later supposing Old World does well enough, but we'll see.

Regardless, i want to buy a print of this map, preferably sans the big icons or having them minimized more.
 
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I'm going to honest, I sort of just accepted that the canal project is going to allow invasive and potentially dangerous species to transfer back and forth.
The canal that connects the Mississippi basin rivers and the great lakes near Chicago has some sort of ridiculous multiphase electrofishing setup designed to scare away invasive species from transferring through and kill any that try, and that's repeatedly had partial failures that shouldn't have been possible that lead them to need to shut the whole canal down and kill anything that's alive between two of the electrified bands, in Mathilde's era it's probably impossible to keep mutant fish from using a canal and any dwarves who have promised to succeed at that are setting themselves up for a world of pain as they fail to live up to the unreasonably high standards for engineering that they've set themselves.

Oh yeah, Mathilde's idea of 'invasive species' is something that might sack a city and raise a flag on its ruins. Ecosystem disruption due to a new kind of mussel outcompeting native species or whatever isn't even on her radar.

Are griffons natural creatures or are platypuses unnatural creatures?

The definitions for that sort of thing seem to be extremely biased in favour of anything that can be convinced to accept a rider. There's a lot of creatures with explicitly Chaotic origins that are treated as noble and good. So the question becomes: is there a platypus large enough that you can ride it into battle?

1. The idea has been floated to ask Walter Kupfer for advice on the Druchii. Would this be more like that time we asked LM Grey for advice on traveling through Chaos Dwarf territory (which was free, CF-wise) or more like the time we asked LM Melkoth to teach us a spell (which cost us the standard LM rate)? Furthermore, would we need to narrow down exactly what we wanted to learn, or would "I have plans to go fuck with the Druchii and I thought I'd go straight to the best" be sufficient?

You could do either. Do you want to ask for advice from a colleague or for lessons from a subject matter expert? If you want something specific ask for something specific, if you just want whatever Kupfer think would be most useful you can leave it vague.

2. A lot of people are interested in using ithilmar arbitrage to acquire some money that will be of direct and practical use to the causes of having enough books for every fiber in the high-thread-count silk sheets she's definitely getting any day now and a research backlog other wizards literally pay their dearest secrets to access. The question here is, what're the timing restrictions on this action? Hypothetically, if we took this action on the same turn that we dipped out to go visit Lothern, would we have our cut from it available for us or would the EIC still be in the process of selling until the time that the turn would usually end? Do we need a turn of lead time if we want to have our extremely clean and aboveboard lucre with us, or is taking it on the same turn we leave (assuming the business opportunity is still available) good enough?

No lead time necessary, you can do it in the same turn you want the money for. There'd still be money changing hands but the EIC wouldn't have a problem with estimating the eventual profit and just giving Mathilde a big bag of gold in advance.

@Boney, can the Red Rider's steed change shape normally, or is it some weird result of the ritual, or is this simply fiction that isn't translated into how they work in Divided Loyalties?

The shape can change, but it's entirely aesthetic, it can't unlock new capabilities by doing so.

So, uh, looking at the Familiar bond abilities, one of them is "lucky charm", in that the wizard is basically more lucky. @Boney Is that something we could attain, and if so, what kind of effect would it have mechanically?

You could, but the mechanics are something I'd decide if or when it was acquired.

I wonder if we pray to Randal he would give Mathilde a mission or goal in life. It either be something world changing or something so minor it seems like a fluke.

Mathilde's mission or goal in life is the thread's job to decide.

the Arcane Journals for each faction

Am I just overly self-conscious or are all of GW's copyright-friendly renamings making it so it would be agonizingly awkward to try to purchase these things in a non-GW store?


Then this is long after the Vampire Wars, when Sylvania should have been well and truly annexed into Stirland. Why is there a big chunk of terra nullius on the map? Is it because they don't trust their audience to recognize the existence of a Vampires if there isn't a Vampire-coloured shape on the map?
 
Impressions, in no particular order.
The logo of the Old World says 2276 right at the top.

I thought the Vlag thing was weird. They have Karak Vlag ruined in the wrong location, but there's a Dwarf symbol right in the location where it should be. There's been redrawings of the map. The Stitched Skulls tribe used be in the Pale Sisters, north west of where the Bloody Tusks are on the map currently. They got moved from the Pale Sisters on the WarCom post to Karak Eight Peaks on the map. Hopefully they fix that.

That Dwarf hold south west of probably Kraka Drakk looks like it's in the position of canon Kraka Ravnsvake. I'm just not sure what the other one is. Fort Urslo looks like it is in the position of canon Sjoktraken.

Kislev used to have a lot less forest in the first maps they showed us. That changed when they mapped Kislev with the tokens. It could be that those forests got cut down in the reign of Boris or Kattarin the Bloody.

What were your thoughts about two ruling Bretonnian Duchesses? There's one in Couronne and Artois. I was surprised about it even though they gave Bretonnian models male and female options for heads.

I can only offer possible explanations for Varn and Eight Peaks, as them being a mining expedition and another Ironhammer Claimant before Belegar. This is my guy feeling because the Arcane Journals for each faction are supposed to have armies of infamy in them, so those two may be good contenders for filling in those roles for the Dwarfs. The lack of building around the Northern Worlds Edge and Grey Mountains is maybe probably more to do with the focus on the border princes for this early part of the narrative. This thing may get filled out more later supposing Old World does well enough, but we'll see.

Regardless, i want to buy a print of this map, preferably sans the big icons or having them minimized more.
Belegar's father Buregar was a major contender for the Dragon-Crown of Karaz-a-Karak. He was mentioned to not have control over Karak Eight Peaks. If he or his own father had lost control over Karak Eight Peaks in the last few decades, I don't think he would have been one of the top three choices for it.
 
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Oh yeah, Mathilde's idea of 'invasive species' is something that might sack a city and raise a flag on its ruins. Ecosystem disruption due to a new kind of mussel outcompeting native species or whatever isn't even on her radar.
I'm sure Mathilde will get one (1) firm but politely written letter from the Ambers once the issue becomes known.
The definitions for that sort of thing seem to be extremely biased in favour of anything that can be convinced to accept a rider. There's a lot of creatures with explicitly Chaotic origins that are treated as noble and good. So the question becomes: is there a platypus large enough that you can ride it into battle?
God I need giant ridable platypuses now. They even come with poisonous spurs!
 
What were your thoughts about two ruling Bretonnian Duchesses? There's one in Couronne and Artois. I was surprised about it even though they gave Bretonnian models male and female options for heads.

Either they're letting women openly be Knights Errant, or they've removed the requirement to have been one for someone to inherit. The former would be a welcome change, the latter would be a really weird one.
 
The Ottilian Emperors - if they still originated with Ottilia - have, uh, just Talabecland, and it's described as the largest despite being visibly smaller than mega-Middenland. Then you've got the Reiklander Emperor, who just has Reikland and a chunk of northern Wissenland. Then the southern half of the Empire belongs to none of these states - are they neutral or do their loyalties shift around?
I almost wonder if the thing with Talabec being so small yet being described as the largest means that they maybe actually meant to have Stirland and Ostermark (and maybe even Averland) actually be part of the Talabec area but it got changed at some point and they forgot to update the description, would make some more sense then.
 
Huh, I wonder if the Damsels or Ice witches are going to be multi gendered as well. Or if we'll get an all male order of wizards somewhere to balance out the three all female ones in the setting.
 
I almost wonder if the thing with Talabec being so small yet being described as the largest means that they maybe actually meant to have Stirland and Ostermark (and maybe even Averland) actually be part of the Talabec area but it got changed at some point and they forgot to update the description, would make some more sense then.
You're right. The first map of The Old World shown had Talabecland ruling over Talabecland, Ostermark, and Stirland. Sylvania still had that weird part Boney mentioned. While the land between the Upper Talabec and Usrkoy was held by an unlabeled Imperial province.

That held even when Kislev was mapped for the first time. It got changed in the update that the Tomb Kings got mapped in.

Retcons. Retcons everywhere. And the game isn't even out yet. :V
 
Huh, I wonder if the Damsels or Ice witches are going to be multi gendered as well. Or if we'll get an all male order of wizards somewhere to balance out the three all female ones in the setting.
IIRC the Druchii's Doomfire Warlocks are male-only, which is why Malekith cursed the hell out of them.

I don't think the Ice Witches will end up having males included with them, their prophecy-driven stigma is harder to ignore. Damsels... well, going purely on gut feeling I think those are a tad bit more likely, but not much.
 
Oh good. I guess that means the big question becomes whether they can become Grail Knights or not.
Dukes have to have the Grail Vow apparently, it may carry over to the Duchesses but maybe not. If so it may be the case that now the only thing stopping you from drinking from the Grail is being a Noble.

Ah classism, the most palatable of oppressions.
 
Dukes have to have the Grail Vow apparently, it may carry over to the Duchesses but maybe not. If so it may be the case that now the only thing stopping you from drinking from the Grail is being a Noble.

Ah classism, the most palatable of oppressions.
It's possible that them having the Grail Vow as standard on tabletop in TOW only means that Dukes typically have the Grail Vow, rather than being a legal requirement to hold office.

(Which was admittedly basically already the case, something like half the dukes circa 2520 were Grail Knights)
 
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