Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
There might be enough tariffs and canal-fees involved that south-of-Empire traffic might still take the ocean route to get to Erengrad.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I suspect there reaction will be similar to the og canal
hm. That sounds....optimistic of them.
Can I just say that I love your subtle (and repeated) Darth Sidious interjections of "Necromancy is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural"
- Location
- Canada
Well... anyone they hire will have to literally sail past Baba Niedzwenka's home to reach the proposed canal.
"You might attract Baba Niedzwenka's attention" is not something anyone who sails the Sea of Claws is going to take lightly. Not even for huge sums of money. Accidentally starting a war with the Empire would be genuinely preferable, to most of them.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
Isn't she a mythological creature? We're in her (ley line) knitting circle, so the reality of her existence seems normalish, but expecting a pirate to take her into account when accepting jobs feels like wondering how river pirates in the Empire are comfortable with plying their loathsome trade on Grandfather Reik's banks.
I expect that a Kislevite canal will actually increase the volume and value of the trade going through Marienburg, and thus be a boon for the people living there. (Network effects are fun).
But it will reduce the amount of tolls they can justify on any particular bit of trade or passage.
But it will reduce the amount of tolls they can justify on any particular bit of trade or passage.
Gong farmers and Niter factories was mentioned but isn't on this list.
Otherwise it looks complete, nice job.
- Location
- Probably Not Behind You
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- She/Her
Ok, after the additional info on canal feasibility as a blood price I'm pretty convinced to support such an action, and enjoy the thought that's been thrown out once or twice that we use our Deed with Karak Vlag to get them to help the project. Seems like a pretty smooth way to sidestep Marienburg, making the Ulthuan Cooperation option that much more viable, while also taking a step to get Vlag more closely bound to its neighbor.
Both will bear the brunt of blow when the next Everchosen comes around, and while to a certain degree they'll already be incentivized to work together in matters of defense, this is a chance to have Vlag creep out of their shell a bit and get more used to their closest human neighbor. After all, Kislev could respond to an attack on Vlag much faster than the rest of the Karaz Ankor, and their history has shown they can't always rely on distant allies to arrive on time.
I'm sure some degree of defensive alliance between them would get hashed out eventually, but here's a chance for us to promote relations between our allies in a way that gets us our canal more quickly than I expect Kislev could manage on their own, with benefits for all parties involved. Should all fit quite neatly into Boris' stated agenda of seeing Kislev reborn.
Both will bear the brunt of blow when the next Everchosen comes around, and while to a certain degree they'll already be incentivized to work together in matters of defense, this is a chance to have Vlag creep out of their shell a bit and get more used to their closest human neighbor. After all, Kislev could respond to an attack on Vlag much faster than the rest of the Karaz Ankor, and their history has shown they can't always rely on distant allies to arrive on time.
I'm sure some degree of defensive alliance between them would get hashed out eventually, but here's a chance for us to promote relations between our allies in a way that gets us our canal more quickly than I expect Kislev could manage on their own, with benefits for all parties involved. Should all fit quite neatly into Boris' stated agenda of seeing Kislev reborn.
- Location
- Canada
Maybe? I honestly don't know how well known she is to superstitious common folk. But the Sea Hag's mythical nature stops being quite so mythical when she rolls into town, accompanied by floodwater and a rain of frogs and maggots, and curses someone's family line for ten generations. As that one Boyar who dissed the new Tzar discovered recently.
I guess she might not function as a deterrent until she's already on the warpath. But she has a hair trigger and enough spite to power a Throng, so I doubt it would take very much sabotage at all to set her off.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
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- The Destination of Fate
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- She/Her
That's just Fooger's view on it at that moment, though. It wasn't necessarily reflective of reality at the time, and it definitely doesn't take into account this second canal, which would let the Empire's trade with Kislev grow a lot stronger and also let the Empire's navy get to the Sea of Claws way faster than the Black Water.
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- He/Him
Supporting Prince Mandred's candidacy for Emperor.
I think Fooger had a decent enough image of the big picture. House de Roelefs, despite being in the most danger from the Canal, have joined the Stadsraad as a result of the panic that the canal induced. A lot of the Empire's core is also set near Marienburg, like Altdorf.
For a large number of places, sailing through the Urskoy-Lemsk Canal would be a longer trip than sailing the Sea of Claws. For Bretonnia and Estalia, if they want to use the canal, it'll be faster to go through Marienburg. Whether they are going onto the Reik or exiting it.
The most damage I think this will do is to Marienburg's cut out of Erengrad/Empire trade. How much is that going to be? Kislev City itself is on a river in the Reik Basin, so it can trade with the Empire without going through Marienburg. To my understanding Kislev hasn't really done much, so it isn't exactly trading a massive amount. Erengrad is wealthy to be sure, but I'm not sure how much the Empire and Erengrad trade as a whole. Apparently it's difficult for Empire merchants to reach into Kislev, according to the EIC foothold option from when the thread poked Drycha.
I started writing this out agreeing with you, but I'm ending this trying to figure out what trade it would redirect. I can see it generating more trade, but how much of the (inner) Empire trading with Erengrad rather than Kislev City? It's a hundred miles on land from Inkodevna (which is connected to Kislev by the Urskoy) to Goroyny, which is on the Lynsk, from there you can get to Erengrad. I guess I am underestimating how difficult it is to transport trade goods by land compared to water.
Wouldn't asking the leader of another polity to interfere in the inner political workings of the Empire cause some issues? Potentially even backfiring and losing support for Mandred since they'll be resentment/concern that Mandred might be beholden to another nation for its role in his ascension to Emperor?
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Quick estimates I find from historians say it was between 3 and 8 times as expensive to transport goods overland as opposed to by river (the difference likely depending on number and quality of roads), for the same distance transported. Maybe more.
That's probably somewhat worse in Warhammer due to more issues like Beastmen on the roads.
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- Location
- Australia
I'm going to guess Divided Loyalties isn't going to use the lore introduced four years later wherein the real Ghal Maraz is shown to have five runes?
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- He/Him
If Boris is bad at it, sure. I wasn't the one to come up with the idea, mind.
Also, now that I think of it, it might be violating one of our vows? Hm.
Somic
It's meow or never
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- She/Her
Well, does it have a soul?
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- He/Him/His
I like how the thread side-stepped the conflict between choosing between Ulthuan Cooperation or Fucking Marienburg by making the Blood price screw over Marienburg (on a longer timescale) and probably benefit us at the same time. I wasn't very interested in using the Blood Boon for Books so it was fun to see the creativity. I agree that it is best to keep the Blood Boon phrasing simple and sort out if we want to boost it later with other boons or an EIC action. I am wondering who Ulthuan will send to work with us on Waystones if we pick Cooperation.
- Location
- California, USA
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- He/Him
I'm a little more pessimistic about Ulthuan sending someone than I think the thread is. While I'd love for it to be the case, I can't help but notice that it's been pretty notably left out of the exact wording.
Yeah, I just wasn't sure if places like Altdorf or Nuln were far enough that it balanced out.
I also checked Realms of the Ice Queen. I had forgotten completely about the Ivory Road. A portion of it ends in Praag. Those luxury goods would definitely go through Marienburg. That going through the canal would cut a portion of the Ivory Road off from Marienburg.
Interestingly, this canal will also weaken Erengrad. Kislev would have less reason to trade as much through Erengrad when it can ship products from Praag down the Reik. Boyar Yevschenko, one of Erengrad's boyars, is an ally of Tzar Boris. He even seemed to know of Boris's plan to assassinate his father or start a civil war. That is what the streltsi were there to signify.
I sense divided loyalties in the making.
Either they send waystone böök or they send someone to oversee the transfer of knowledge. Eltharion's phrasing made me think that they want the Project to send them everything it develops in the future, no matter which option is chosen. So with cooperation, they have a good reason to send a member for the Project.
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Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
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- The Destination of Fate
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- She/Her
Don't get me wrong, I think Fooger may be right that Marienburg can definitely recoup its losses in the coming years, but my point is that the other Houses may think differently and someone might do something in panic to try to stop a project half a continent away.
Ships have a much greater carrying capacity than any land transportation in this setting, don't get tired and can keep traveling 24 hours a day, so they can cover a much greater distance provided that the places they wish to travel to are near water. It's absolutely worthwhile.
It legitimately might. Or at least, it might have a personality. This is what High King Kurgan says, in the Heldenhammer novel when he's recounting how he met Sigmar:
Ghal Maraz was made by Smednir, an actual God. Then it got bathed in Ulric's holy fire. It's really not out of the question that its true power would come in the hands of the worthy or some legitimately weird thing like that. For all we know Smednir put a Rune of This Weapon Is Picky About Its Wielder on it.
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[X] [Blood] Empire (Canal linking the Urskoy and Lynsk)
[X] [ULTHUAN] Cooperation
[X] [ULTHUAN] Cooperation