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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Just realized, this canal business is really just another form of shipping. So why not skip the boring complicated bits and get right to the important stuff?

[] [BLOOD] Marry Prince Eltharion
[] [ULTHUAN] Marry Tzar Boris

Now that is what I call international diplomacy! :V
 
Derpmind said:
Just realized, this canal business is really just another form of shipping. So why not skip the boring complicated bits and get right to the important stuff?

[] [BLOOD] Marry Prince Eltharion
[] [ULTHUAN] Marry Tzar Boris

Now that is what I call international diplomacy! :V
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Eltharion (in the middle of dissociating): "Is he at least any good at killing greenskins?"
Mathilde: "He wrestles bears in his spare time"
Eltharion (Recovering consciousness): "Hmm..."
 
Someone elsewhere raised somewhat good point. @Boney Whats the weather like around the presumed potential route of the canal? Wouldn´t do much good to anyone if it was frozen solid for half a year. I suspect that its too far south for that to be a concern (since,you know, most of Kislev can at least try to grow crops), but i figured i might ask just to be sure. I mean feel free to handwave it, trying to worldbuild the exact climate seems like an insane ask, but it does feel like a reasonable concern given we are talking about Ice Country TM.
 
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pucflek said:
Someone elsewhere raised somewhat good point. @Boney Whats the weather like around the presumed potential route of the canal? Wouldn´t do much good to anyone if it was frozen solid for half a year. I suspect that its too far south for that to be a concern (since,you know, most of Kislev can at least try to grow crops), but i figured i might ask just to be sure. I mean feel free to handwave it, trying to worldbuild the exact climate seems like an insane ask, but it does feel like a reasonable concern given we are talking about Ice Country TM.
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A activity used canal isn't going to stay frozen even if lots of the boaters have to bring along ice picks.
 
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PLAN:

Basic Summary of Plan:
[Ulthuan] - Cooperation
As written in the premade choice.

[Blood] - Canal
Primarily, manpower support and overall commitment to it as a project from Boris and Kislev.

There's been a lot of bandying about which other favors we'll combo with this which I think can probably be largely decided later, or in a subvote with @Boney 's blessing - I figure as long as we're all united in the intention here, the brass tacks like what river we're branching off and so on can also be decided later.

We just need to lock in on the main idea - Canal that neutralizes Marienburg's monopoly and opens the Sea of Claws - which is essentially this, without muddying the water on what shinies we're going to spend on improving it - we all know it will be some, we're just not agreed on which and what yet.
 
So the canal would open more trade with Kislev, build infrastructure, cooperation between the Karak Ankor, empire and Kislev, and screw over Marienburg. Also we get to see Boris look stunned, than realize he can take credit for something that will make Kislev rich. Because not only will trade be able to move but also armies like in case of a invasion.
 
I imagine the canal freezing is a consideration that will be taken during construction. But even if it is problem, Kislev is the best suited nation to deal with frozen things.
 
fictionfan said:
A activity used canal isn't going to stay frozen even if lots of the boaters have to bring along ice picks.
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Also in this case, the boaters can hire a local hag to bully the river spirit of the canal into moving again.

"Gods-darned young spirits these days *grumble grumble* lazy children, the lot of them. Back in my day we worked for a living, not loafing around literally not moving for half a year at a time because it's a bit nippy out."
 
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Gavin Prince said:
Also in this case, the boaters can hire a local hag to bully the river spirit of the canal into moving again.

"Gods-darned young spirits these days *grumble grumble* lazy children, the lot of them. Back in my day we worked for a living"
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I'm not sure that the Hag Witches (or Ice Witches, who I think would be far more suited to keeping the canal open the same way Mathilde got them to keep the High Pass open for the Karag Dum expedition) are open to being hired like that. They're religious mystery cults, while they can be swayed with enough influence like Boris getting them to help the Waystone project, I kind of doubt some boater can just walk up to the hags and commission them anymore than Bretonnians can just hire Damsels. Most magical institutions are not like the Colleges of Magic.
 
pucflek said:
Someone elsewhere raised somewhat good point. @Boney Whats the weather like around the presumed potential route of the canal? Wouldn´t do much good to anyone if it was frozen solid for half a year. I suspect that its too far south for that to be a concern (since,you know, most of Kislev can at least try to grow crops), but i figured i might ask just to be sure. I mean feel free to handwave it, trying to worldbuild the exact climate seems like an insane ask, but it does feel like a reasonable concern given we are talking about Ice Country TM.
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It's part of the Western Oblast which is relatively mild and farmable, and it's the same latitude as Tor Lithanel. Those parts of the Lynsk and the Urskoy usually stay navigable year-round.
 
The canal is a great idea and I love it. I also loved the BOOK plan, but unless we were leaning on Boris to supply the scribes it was also going to be competing with quite a long list of libraries to copy already.

One addition I would make would be to also ask for reciprocal fleet-basing rights between the Empire and Kislev. Right now that's basically just Erengrad and Salkalten, which favours the Empire a little, but not too much I don't think - Erengrad's right over on the Eastern edge of the Sea of Claws, meaning all trade has to go past Salkalten anyway. It's also easy to make the case that between this canal and the Black Water Canal, the Empire's going to be growing its navy in a place safe from Marienburger mercenaries; a couple of decades down the line, Salkalten might be defended by a Navy worth the name, and be a valuable strategic aid to Kislev.

And, of course, it ties the two nations even closer together.
 
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Blackout said:
I'm not sure that the Hag Witches (or Ice Witches, who I think would be far more suited to keeping the canal open the same way Mathilde got them to keep the High Pass open for the Karag Dum expedition) are open to being hired like that. They're religious mystery cults, while they can be swayed with enough influence like Boris getting them to help the Waystone project, I kind of doubt some boater can just walk up to the hags and commission them anymore than Bretonnians can just hire Damsels. Most magical institutions are not like the Colleges of Magic.
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While that is true, even they like gold, and there's a lot of gold to be had keeping the main trade artery between nations open. They also like Boris, so if it was an official request from Kislev, the country they might listen. And it gives them secular leverage against being ignored like they were under previous Tzars
 
How is "Halétha" pronounced? Because my brain defaulted to "hah-LAY-tha" for some reason, but I figured "hah-LEE-tha" would make more sense in terms of closeness to my mental pronunciation of Kalita ("kah-LEE-ta").
 
adaer said:
While that is true, even they like gold, and there's a lot of gold to be had keeping the main trade artery between nations open. They also like Boris, so if it was an official request from Kislev, the country they might listen. And it gives them secular leverage against being ignored like they were under previous Tzars
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Yeah I don't think keeping the canal open is going to be a problem on the whole since Boris would just ask them to keep a vital trade link unfrozen, I just objected to the idea that any boater would be able to buy their services.
 
CornyBones said:
This canal talk now brings us around to the question of "Hows Marianburg gonna fuck with it. And how easily can they fuck with it from there geographical position"
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It'd be harder, given that Boris would be aware of the troubles of the Black Water canal and that he'd probably need to reinforce the rivers against pirates. Marienburg might also flinch at the idea of angering the Empire, the Karaz Ankor, and Kislev.

Given the Oblast's terrain, it's also less likely that we'd see a repeat of the Skull River (whether it was Marienburg or someone trying to pin it on them) - not enough hiding spots.
 
Parabola said:
It'd be harder, given that Boris would be aware of the troubles of the Black Water canal and that he'd probably need to reinforce the rivers against pirates. Marienburg might also flinch at the idea of angering the Empire, the Karaz Ankor, and Kislev.

Given the Oblast's terrain, it's also less likely that we'd see a repeat of the Skull River (whether it was Marienburg or someone trying to pin it on them) - not enough hiding spots.
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It's also worth noting that the Asur's support of Marienburg probably only extends to stopping them from being taken back - supporting them in an open conflict is a much different prospect. In Total War terms, they probably have a defensive alliance, not a military one.
 
Blackout said:
I'm not sure that the Hag Witches (or Ice Witches, who I think would be far more suited to keeping the canal open the same way Mathilde got them to keep the High Pass open for the Karag Dum expedition) are open to being hired like that. They're religious mystery cults, while they can be swayed with enough influence like Boris getting them to help the Waystone project, I kind of doubt some boater can just walk up to the hags and commission them anymore than Bretonnians can just hire Damsels. Most magical institutions are not like the Colleges of Magic.
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As witches, local peasants walking up to them and asking for stuff is pretty much their main source of business. They're members of their communities. You have to be polite, and they are witches, but they are also very much in business. That is where the trouble of witches comes from, when there is trouble.

Damsels are like the exact opposite of Hag Witches, socially and magically.
 
CornyBones said:
This canal talk now brings us around to the question of "Hows Marianburg gonna fuck with it. And how easily can they fuck with it from there geographical position"
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I think it also brings another question: will the canal idea end up impacting more than just Marienburg? Who else loses by connecting the Sea of Claws to the Black Gulf via canals? From a quick look at a map, I think Brettonian ports might lose out on some business, from ships passing by on their way north or south. Estalian ones too, maybe, for the same reason.

Also looking at a map, I believe that if the canal vote goes through, then Barak Varr's plans for Sartosa may need to be moved up, to lower the danger to trade in the Black Gulf.
 
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