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> glory
See, this is where we fundamtentally disagree.
I see it not as glory, but as pathetic failure as a wizard and a spy to even need a sword. I agree we sometimes are going to fail and thus need one, but I see no glory in it.
For me personally, the disagreement is one of scale. I don't want Math to get the sword to participate in battle or as a last resort. Both are good uses, but I want a powerful weapon to assassinate dragons*.

*or other equivalent foes.
 
No matter what we end up doing for our primary weapon, it'd be wise to enchant a reasonably killy dagger ourselves; a holdout/stealthy weapon that's much more deadly than the shadowchisel.

Edit: Didn't boney say that while gunpowder weapons aren't commonly runed, crossbows are?
 
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I have a couple concerns with the weapon.

First, we are more at risk when infiltrating/assassinating, and the weapon is unlikely to help too much there, and depending on how flashy it is it might actually hinder us if we choose to rely on it when the best choice was to run.

Second: Kragg.. does not have the best opinion of us, while his honor would force him to make the best weapon possible anyway, I think we should still try to get on his good side (somehow) before ordering something else from him, so we would need to sit on the favor for a while.

I do want the weapon, and it would bother me a lot to order any weapon that is not the best possible, as it would just be a placeholder, and we do engage in battle a lot so we need to get as killy as possible.

I just wished that, I dunno, Kragg did trick weapons (bloodborne) or something like that? A hammer is not our style, and a sword would likely not be as good as a hammer.
 
We've only just become magister and we're already assassinating orc warlords. We're only going up from there. So I'd prefer to get a sword worthy of a magister lord, because we don't know what we'll face at that point.
Yeah, dress for the job you want and all of that.

Someone also made a great point in that this sort of thing is a political statement. You know the last person that was gifted weapons of this quality by the dwarves? Sigmar.

This tells everyone "I'm the Dwaongr".
 
The thing about 'wizards don't use swords' idea is that it comes from a ascended trope of the character type where the wizard was the guy or gal doing a test of the jock (hero) to get them some shiny (magic stuff, often a sword they 'don't need').

Getting a wizard a sword if he wasn't a hero too was confusing, thus Gandalf and Frodo being a subversion and reafirmation somewhat. Both used 'swords' when appropriate but Gandalf far more than Frodo and Gandalf uses a one-and-half while Frodo's barely a short or long dagger, with Gandalf being far more 'classically' heroic.
 
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So, you consider Mathilde a pathetic failure of a wizard and a spy?

Alright then.
No, for the reasosns like these:
How many of those even involved drawing a sword?
The biggest one - Karag Lhune. Number of favours earned with any usage of sword - zero. All 12 - a full third of total favours - have involved exactly zero swording.
Second-highest, battle of Citadel.
Number of times sword was drawn - zero. We earned 8 favours by exclusively doing wizard things.
So, 20 favours out of 35 involved exactly zero usages of the sword.

Third-highest, battle of Karag-Nar. Here, for a change, we actually used our greatsword. On enemies which almost did not resist, because what happened was enactment of counter-ritual and the rusty dagger would probably do the job about as well...well, maybe. Still, I can give 3-4/5 favours here to the sword, for the couple of orks we silently beheaded with it.
East Gate - IIRC, all 4 actually were via a sword, fair is fair.
Und-Uzgar - cannot recall, I can say it's a sword, whatever. 2 more for sword?
4 more for joining and finishing Expedition, no sword.


Ergo: 24-25/35 favours involved not even drawing a sword.

So if you want to grade need-for-items by how many favours we earned by them, sword goes somewhere behind gun, looking glass, fire oil, explosives, knowledge of Ork anatomy and psychology and a detailed map.

And even if you do not order it this way, I think you should take a long hard look at whether we even need a super-sword if a vast majority of our achievements were done without drawing it.
Mathilde is a good wizard/spy because she can save thousands of lives of allies by a well-started fire and a enemy's trap sprung on them. She had to draw a sword only once to gift two Peaks and a Citadel to dwarfs on...not a silver platter but in a very crippled state.
Would you consider her a good spy if she had to use a sword for every encounter?

Especially since no matter the sword, a hundred of trolls would have murdered her anyway. :V


Like, okay, *fix: I consider a wizard who has to rely on a sword to be failure. Or a swordsman who made a wrong career choice. Having it as one of the tools in the arsenal is fine.

I personally think the disagreement is one of scale. I don't want Math to get the sword to participate in battle or as a last resort. Both are good uses, but I want a powerful weapon to assassinate dragons*.

*or other equivalent foes.
Dragon is scary in a fight, ergo a good way about murdering one is not a fight.
I would say that a good way to kill the dragon is feed it a poisoned cow or something. Or to make your another enemy fight it and then finish off both while weakened. Or artillery barrage. And so on.
 
Second: Kragg.. does not have the best opinion of us, while his honor would force him to make the best weapon possible anyway, I think we should still try to get on his good side (somehow) before ordering something else from him, so we would need to sit on the favor for a while.

This is not a specifically a argument for a 25 point weapon, but Mathilde is about as close to Kragg's good side as anyone ever got after the trick with the waagh field.
 
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Good luck finding a poison strong enough to kill a bloody dragon. Toughness represents more than just the ability to resist being sworded in the face.
 
So just one thing to point out, if we want the best possible weapon there will be a requirement that we must fulfill before we spend the favor on it. Namely we need to get our hands on a sufficient amount of Gromril for the Rune Smith to use to make the weapon. If we don't have that then no matter what we spend it on we won't get the best possible result.

So for those who want to spend 25 Favor if you want your best possible sword you will have to be patient and save that much favor for after we've gotten the necessary Gromril.
 
Second: Kragg.. does not have the best opinion of us, while his honor would force him to make the best weapon possible anyway, I think we should still try to get on his good side (somehow) before ordering something else from him, so we would need to sit on the favor for a while.

Kragg actually has a great opinion of us. As much as he can have a good opinion, that is. He actually made a compliment about our performance in the battle of citadel, and he only does those once in a couple of decades.
 
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That just seems cliché and boring to me, Mathilde is unique I'd rather not turn her into just another fairly standard assassin.
They are cliche because they are effective. She already used the shadow chisel instead of the grearsword in order to kill some of the orcs in the temple, so she knows the greatsword isn't that effective for assassinating too and acts on it.
 
I have a couple concerns with the weapon.

First, we are more at risk when infiltrating/assassinating, and the weapon is unlikely to help too much there, and depending on how flashy it is it might actually hinder us if we choose to rely on it when the best choice was to run.

Second: Kragg.. does not have the best opinion of us, while his honor would force him to make the best weapon possible anyway, I think we should still try to get on his good side (somehow) before ordering something else from him, so we would need to sit on the favor for a while.

I do want the weapon, and it would bother me a lot to order any weapon that is not the best possible, as it would just be a placeholder, and we do engage in battle a lot so we need to get as killy as possible.

I just wished that, I dunno, Kragg did trick weapons (bloodborne) or something like that? A hammer is not our style, and a sword would likely not be as good as a hammer.
Yes, but we know how to use a sword and, even if we are fit enough to use a hammer, hammers generally require a certain body type to be used. Namely, to be extremely buff and also quite tall (warhammers, not the dwarven shorthammers, of course, those simply need you to be extremely buff)
Seriously, this axe vs sword vs hammer is worse than the Favour points discussion, if only because it's like which one is better between Anglachel and Gurthang (Silmarillion reference)
 
I would rather not be spending our favours on a sword, but I'm very sympathetic to the viewpoint that if we're going to do so, we should go all-in and get the best sword we possibly can.
 
Also, 25 favors is still a lot. You ask what I would want to spend those favors on? Training. Both on a personal level and organizations under us, calling on dwarfen experts to train them will bring them up to dwarfen standards, aka, much higher than anything most manling organizations and individuals ever get to. That is the strength we're sacrificing to get a supersword.

No, that's what we're temporarily forgoing to get a supersword. Even then, we can get those as well, so long as its costs 13 Favour or less.

To everyone talking about training or the wizard tower and such being a better use of (some/all) Favour than a weapon. I know some of you are dead set against any weapon, but for those who are more concerned about the amount;
Please, please read this;


Imagine that the category that you're more excited about spending Favour on could only be held in one 'Slot' - you can spend as little or as much as you want (up to 25), and have as many separate functions in it as you like, but whatever it is must be ordered and paid for at one time.

And if you want to change or add to it later, you not only have to have to spend that additional Favour, but re-buy anything from the old one that you want to keep. And tell your dwarven allies, "Hey, I don't really like or need your old gift anymore, can you make me a better one? The old one? I dunno, I'll shove it off onto someone else."
And each, say Turn maybe, you have to choose what you held in that 'Slot'.


Since I'm likely to have explained poorly, rather than clearly and evocatively, I'll try some examples of what later voter discussion would look like;

"Aaargh, this +2 Magic Knowledge skill is way too low now, why the hell didn't we just buy +4 to start with?? Now it'll cost half again as much!"

"Goddamnit, we walked off the battlefield into Belebro vs Thorgrim 2.0! We only had room in our +3 Weapon Skill talent 'Slot' for +1 Diplomancy! We should have used our +4/+4 Diplo/Dwarven Culture talent 'Slot' this turn!"

"We don't need to get more skills this turn, we'd benefit more from upgrading our Tower from 15 to 25 Favour!! That's what we'd be sacrificing to upgrade Engineering, it's not worth it."

"What do you mean buying +10 gives us a bonus Trait!? Everyone said going above +8 would be sunk coooost!"
 
I would rather not be spending our favours on a sword, but I'm very sympathetic to the viewpoint that if we're going to do so, we should go all-in and get the best sword we possibly can.
What is your opinion on the whole Sword vs Wizard Tower side of the debate, I think the primary disagreement comes down to different perceptions of the usefulness of each and which should be priority.
 
Oooh, some changes on the organization page for the EIC in advance of the update have me very interested in hearing how those stock shifts happened... (also some good increases in current business operations!!)
Incorporates the West Stirland Riverine Company.

Controls all docks on the north bank of the Aver.
Growing dominance over Talabecland-Wissenland and Talabecland-Averland land routes.

Shareholders: Dame Mathilde Weber (36%), Wilhelmina Hochschild (20%), Barony of Blutdorf (16%), County of Franzen (14%), County of Wolfsbach (14%)
 
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