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How many unique combinations of two or more of the eight Winds would there be? I think it's 247 but it's been a long time since I regularly did maths with letters in it.
The principled way to do this, I believe, is as follows:
First, how many combinations of the 8 Winds are there total? Each Wind is either in or out, so you're making one binary choice apiece. In total, then, you have 2^8 = 256.
Second, we want only 2+. Alright, there are 8 ways to choose 1 Wind, so 256-8=248 ways to have a combination of Winds which isn't just a single wind.
...wait, 248? Didn't we just say 247?
Third, we want 2+, not just not 1! 2^8 included having "no" for every Wind, and presumably we don't need to handle that case. (I assume. I guess there's probably some sort of default way to handle that, but we don't need to make any choices in that case, at least.) Subtracting that off, we get 248-1=247, as people have been saying for pages now.
Edit: okay I've read Stormy's post and it checks out so now I'm going to spend the next half hour trying to figure out what this site is trying to actually tell me then.
This is looking at the number of ways to choose 8 numbers, each of which is between 2 and 8 --- that is, if you have 8 blanks and want to fill them in with numbers between 2 and 8 (in order --- all the 2s, then all the 3s, and so on), how many ways you can do this. That should be... a Stars and Bars problem with 8 stars and 8-2 = 6 bars (before the first is 2s, after that one is 3s, then 4s, etc.), for a total of 14 choose 6 = 3003 possibilities. (Also interesting question, but not the one we want here.)

We want to be able to handle anything which we have the winds for, which means... any case where the maximum wind's spark quantity isn't more than the total number of sparks from all the other winds. (Winds were measured in sparks, right? ...yep, that's what turn 37 uses, great.) If you just use all possible winds whenever any are available, you get down to one Wind remaining after running, but that's still leaving some around, and I assume that's not desirable. Obviously, we coudl do this if we could look at the whole thing at once, but that seems like something which isn't available to enchanting. (If we could, though, we could:
1) Find the maximum-weight Wind
2) Match up packets from that Wind with anything else, one to one, until it's all gone
3) Throw every remaining spark into the remaining packets at random.
That requires storing a lot and then dumping all at once, though, which seems somewhat wrong.)
Hmm... What if you do pick randomly? You need to find a cutoff point, then... Accumulate randomly until you hit a second spark of a wind you already have, then drop that entire packet? No packet ends up with more than 8 sparks, obviously. If one wind has a density of 1/k, you expect to need k samples to hit a second spark of that wind, which means packets started with your densest wind do accumulate the right number of other winds... but there's no chance of the long positive tail, and if you hit a double on another wind, you drop immediately, and even if you didn't you couldn't pick up that spark. We do want k other sparks when the densest wind is density 1/k, though, which makes it appealing. And you don't even need the wind to be the densest, do you? As long as you drop k sparks for each spark of a density 1/k wind, you're doing it right, though at some point you need to reset. In that case, the following procedure should pretty much sort of work, with high probability of getting close to the right answer and only looking at things locally:
1) Pick a random wind spark, noting its wind as w. (Hope it's not from a wind with much lower than 1/8 density. ...that might be a problem. Oops.)
2) Pick sparks at random until you see another spark of wind w.
3) Glomp everything you can from step 3 into one packet. If there's a wind you got two sparks from, drop one of them and look for a new spark to replace it, to keep the number of sparks correct. If you can't... uh, cry? (No, just discard this packet, that means you started with a bad wind.)
4) If you got a packet after 3, send it along! This should keep the density of wind w constant, on average.
Issue: we, uh, don't actually want to keep the density of winds constant, we want to level them out. ...oops.

Alright, take 2, this time aiming for what we actually want to do!
Our actual goal is to level out the equalize the wind counts, and keep them equal --- eventually we'd be at 0 for all of them, which is where we want to end up. In other words, every packet wants to contain the current densest wind if it can (read: with high probability). Problem: we, uh, don't know which wind is densest. And, to make this hard on ourselves, we can't just check that. We could, say, check 8 random sparks and pair up the densest wind in that no, that locks us into pairs. ...Well, we can work with that, I guess? No, this is still just the previous thing but averaging over 8 rather than taking the best of 1...

Wait, we totally can take a maximum. Each wind repels all the other winds, so if you have a spark of each wind, the two which are least repelled from the average of the foundation are the ones you want. Have a blob of winds in the center of the foundation proportional to the total amount of each wind, then drop one of each spark in their own vertical tubes off the blob (and orthogonal to it or something). Whichever pair of sparks is highest up (or lowest down) get paired off and sent, then replace the sparks and repeat the process. If more than two sparks are close enough (within whatever wiggle room you give them), fine, make a packet with more than two. After sending that packet, replace the sent sparks and repeat. Each time, you should send off the maximum pair, possibly plus other sparks if the maximum and the third-to-max are close. That pushes the max down every time, sends a roughly even set if everything's pretty much balanced, and shouldn't be jumping the tech tree at all, right? ...and it needs a decently strong conductor for each wind in each waystone, but the capstones were including that anyway, and we don't need the mutual exclusivity for these that we did for the capstone. Does that work? I feel like that works, at least well enough for me to give up on trying to find a clever algorithmic solution. Still seems like one might exist, but trying to over-select the most dense wind is a headache probabilistically.
 
I really dislike posts like these, because they start romanticizing the tragedy of the death of an 'innocent', as if a negligent warlord king of a feudal society bordered by a bunch of tribal warriors literally empowered by corrupted hell gods did no wrong by sitting on his butt and pulling a Bobby B for decades while thousands of his citizens lost their literal souls every year to Taint in Praag, or to Norscan raids, or to Chaotic cults, or to Skaven raids and experiments in Hell Pit, etc., etc.

There's even levels to this type of willful ignorance, because it ignores the foundational sins of feudalism *and* those of Warhammer to craft some type of narrative where a negligent king who didn't hand over the reigns to his more competent son is a saint because he didn't personally kill orphans on his front lawn like his vampire mother.

Vladimir Bokha was a Tzar- a king. And by the very definition of that word, he's a warlord who uses the power of 'I have the biggest stick around' to gather tithes and tributes from pettier warlords in order to drive off external invaders. Vladimir Bokha was an incompetent tinpot dictator who sat on an iron throne of swords and blood forged by his mass murdering mother... and who did nothing but sit on that throne, while his subjects wallowed in abject poverty and Chaotic Taint, and storms gathered on the horizon.
We don't think he was doing the right things but Vlad was very much not sitting on his butt. Whenever an enemy of the people of Kislev popped up, by all appearances he was right the fuck there, indeed this is something Mathilde has personally witnessed. A great many people, in any circumstances except "Kislev that still hasn't recovered from the last chaos invasion, in the leadup to the next chaos invasion" would consider "leaves us the fuck alone but eagerly shows up to Have A Go when any gribblies pop up" to be The Ideal King. Quite frankly the man had probably personally saved the lives of a not insignificant amount of his subjects.

Also the vampire is not one generation and by a lot of shit Boney's said there seems to have been a dynasty change since then anyway so uh, dunno why you're harping on about that so much.
 
Edit: BeepSmile: Is at this post in his catching up to the thread:

The problem is that when you know what logic gates are, it's very easy to knock something together that would work and then backport that into something mechanical or hydraulic.
<.<
>.>

----
But it's important to note- even were Vladimir competent, wielding the power of a tyrant makes you a tyrant.
Fucking thank you

Mathilde I can see being upset about this, she did the deed -killed a person - and is a member of a State's secret police.

The overall mood of posts in the thread was a lot less 'meh' about killing a King than I expected, though I suppose the 'meh' people wouldn't feel like posting.
 
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Random thought, how do you think this all went in the negaverse Kislev quest? Like assuming the players are controlling Boris this must have been a bit of a shot in the dark.

Then imagine the thread's reaction to how seemingly easily Mathilde did it and the sudden paranoia that causes.
If we assume a Negaverse thread's state is reflected in Boris' disposition in much the same way DL's is reflected in Mathilde's, there is probably near-100% agreement on anything that gets more Kislev and less Chaos, and a focus on wanting to be an active ruler. There was probably a majority agreement on waiting until time did its thing to Vladimir, and building up power and influence slowly in the meantime, but then they started seeing the signs that Chaos might be waxing, and they started getting concerned.

There was probably a lot of diplomacy attempts with Vladimir in trying to convince him of getting more power at least, rule while he's out hunting, but they were no good. And at some point the thread probably gets enough build-up to the idea of civil war to prevent Kislev dying off in the next Great War, but there's still a lot of conflict on it. Even the war hawks that believe in ends justifying the means might feel that it's not worth starting a civil war when there's perfectly good vampires over there that Kislev could be fighting, instead of themselves. It's a waste even for them.

---
And it probably runs on more standard ruler-management/CK mechanics: When a new turn rolls by, they have a bunch options given to them by their advisors or people who come to them with proposals, and are forced to pick one response among many. This means there can be lots of improvisation and options to take. Instead of having taken an action like "[] Directly ask someone to assassinate your father", it might have been more like...

Lady Magister Weber wishes to meet you regarding her Waystone Project and how she wishes to share what she's discovered thus far. Her letters hint at a start to a solution, using the manpower of Kislev's priests and witches to bolster what is already present. But from what she previously told you, and what little you know of magic, it probably is not a quick process. Your father surely won't support it, of course...


What do you do?


[] [WAYSTONE] Explain to Weber that your hands are tied.
Weber will probably do what work she can with the limited influence she already has with the Ice Witches and Baba Niedzwenka. It may not be enough.
[] [WAYSTONE] Promise Kislev's help to Weber, even though you don't actually have the authority for it.
Your father will know, and will probably try to stop you, but you will have more leeway to act before he finds out. And once it's set in motion, it'll be harder to stop.
[] [WAYSTONE] Secretly help Weber behind your father's back.
He might not find out. But whether he does or not, the secrecy will hamper effectiveness.
[] [WAYSTONE] Perhaps you can convince the Ice Witches to help Weber more, in exchange for a promise of marriage.
It is a gamble whether the Ice Witches will directly help Weber behind your father's back to get your favor, but if they do, it's unlikely he will directly take steps against them, since he fears them.
[] [WAYSTONE] Try (yet again) to convince your father to lend his support.
You have tried this too many times. You know he will say no.
[] [WAYSTONE] (Write-in)

And well, someone proposes a wild write-in. The thread immediately erupts in very, uh, frosty discussion. There's over fifty pages of discussion in just the first day. Things go in circles a handful of times, but since there was already a strong movement to starting a civil war any turn now (their Elfcation equivalent), it is accepted as compromise. At this point even the people who love Vladimir have to accept that he's actively hampering the nation. This is reflected in Boris' stoic yet already-grieving demeanor.

No matter how you look at it it's a desperate move to place your fate in the hands of a foreign wizard. But I could also see the thread metagaming a bit, and banking both on the canonical reputation of Grey Wizards and on Mathilde's personal reputation: not only did she save Karak Vlag, but she went out of her way to help Kislev and also Boris himself with the Drycha thing; even if you took the most cynical perspective that she did it entirely to recruit the Witches for the sake of the Project, it would mean she is that determined with the Project, and wants to see it succeed.

It may have been a simple-ish roll to convince her, though the thread wouldn't have known it. She agrees, and next thing the thread knows, Vladimir's dead, just like that. He seems like he died nearly painlessly, perhaps of natural causes. The thread is scared at the efficiency of it all.

And now they wait. They wait for what terrible and totally-not-book-related request she will ask of them.
 
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Quick predictions for the foundations:

Colleges: something weird and experimental and prone to exploding.
Hatalath: simultaneously elegant and complicated. Can't be mass produced.
Sarvoi: like Hatalath's, but mystical
Cadaeth: like Hatalath's, but foresty
Niedzwenka: spirits
Thorek: a bunch of lost runes cobbled together
Aksel: eight sticks
Zlata: shrugs shoulders
 
Quick predictions for the foundations:

Colleges: something weird and experimental and prone to exploding.
Hatalath: simultaneously elegant and complicated. Can't be mass produced.
Sarvoi: like Hatalath's, but mystical
Cadaeth: like Hatalath's, but foresty
Niedzwenka: spirits
Thorek: a bunch of lost runes cobbled together
Aksel: eight sticks
Zlata: shrugs shoulders
Aksel and Cadaeth aren't on the foundation action. Maybe Mathilde will bring them in anyway, since they should have been on the tributaries action but, uh, we used that action to do something else.
 
Zlata: shrugs shoulders

Zlata: *watching people who have from several times her experience to several hundred times her experience twist metaphysics into a knot several different ways and then compare results*: That looks... good, great, you go.

Actually speaking of that would anyone care to speculate what kind of rolls Zlata quest had to get in order to end up where she is now?
 
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Zlata: *watching people who have from several times her experience to several hundred times her experience twist metaphysics into a knot several different ways and then compare results*: That looks... good, great, you go.

Yeah, Zlata must feel pretty bad abaout her situation. She can't contribute as much as the others to the Project and is stuck listening to geniuses talk abaout things she barely understands all day. That could give her an inferiority complex.

Is like begin an highschool graduate who was always considered brillant by his teachers and peers, stuck working togheter with experienced professional scientists.
 
Quick predictions for the foundations:

Colleges: something weird and experimental and prone to exploding.
Hatalath: simultaneously elegant and complicated. Can't be mass produced.
Sarvoi: like Hatalath's, but mystical
Cadaeth: like Hatalath's, but foresty
Niedzwenka: spirits
Thorek: a bunch of lost runes cobbled together
Aksel: eight sticks
Zlata: is thinking about Aksel's stick
 
Thinking about it I think we might have stumbled across another reason why the Grey Wizards don't do political intrigue normally. It's a lot easier to justify to yourself doing secret police stuff to chaos cults and remain mentally healthy~ish then it is doing it to whoever it is politically convenient to do so.
 
Yeah, Zlata must feel pretty bad abaout her situation. She can't contribute as much as the others to the Project and is stuck listening to geniuses talk abaout things she barely understands all day. That could give her an inferiority complex.

Is like begin an highschool graduate who was always considered brillant by his teachers and peers, stuck working togheter with experienced professional scientists.
Bad for her personally, great for the Ice Witches in general.

They only invest a minimum of secrets because Zlata doesn't know much, but get the full results.
 
A question for the threadheads. Warning, a ramble.

I'm probably late to the party in this regard, but I just wanna say it to get it out of my head and onto a written media. Its an question that popped up when I was thinking about the mechanical thread connecting the nature of Ice Magic and Runecraft in DL. Which for the sake of clarity, is the whole point about how Magic is affected by the stuff it touches, if seemingly to a lesser degree, as it affects it in turn.

Firstly, Thorgrim's words in A Tide Turns
The answer: not all the redirected leylines flowed towards Ulthuan. Each Karak was transformed into an enormous Waystone, and all magic, whether ambient and benign or the shaped power of the spellcasters of other races, would be absorbed into the leylines and redirected to the mighty and ancient Runic arrays at the heart of Karaz-a-Karak, which would shackle and transform the magic into the energy of Runecraft. Which in turn would power the Great Works left behind by the Ancestor-Gods.
(Perhaps especially deliberate word choice with SHACKLE AND TRANSFORM in hindsight btw?)
Lets say we run with the Runes nature magic theory to the fullest extent. Runes overwriting the fundamental 8 winds through some mechanism as an extreme example of Mathilde's discoveries with the Elementalists.

That in mind, I can't help but make comparisons to Kislev for a variety of reasons and the mechanisms we know are in place there as well.

So I believe Baba Nada spilled the beans on what the Ice Witches did with Kislev's Waystones, making them loop.
"They took the leylines of the Elves and turned it into their own vortex," Niedzwenka says with a snort. "Around and around, Erengrad to Kislev City to Praag to Castle Alexandronov and back to Erengrad again, spinning it from Winds to Ice for the Widow's Witches to use against Kislev's enemies. Didn't the Elves howl and screech when they finally returned to Norvard and found their precious stones serving human masters!"
But a part of those words made me pause.

Spinning, like a thread, and the topic of around and around makes me think of a loom TBH*, and Vortex, which I think is the crux of my rambling.
What exactly is Kislev dumping all that magic into? Like, the witches use it obvsly, but you're a northern nation( and the main route for Chaos Invasion into the rest of the Old World for most of your country's history), you're inundated with the stuff I assume, moreover its also more than even the Ice Witches can use I ALSO assume. My theories so far range from Kislev coopting the Waystones to be part of a ritual that basically feeds magic into the Widow, who in turn accelerates/enforces the naturing of the magic when it comes in to contact with Kislev's ice to make the power for Kislevian Ice Magic.

Anyway Im not sure where I wanted to go with this, but It wouldn't leave my mind.

Notes:
*I think people already discussed this, and it may even be quest canon that it seems keeping the magic moving plays a part somehow in stopping Kislev's weird spinner from becoming a Dhar pit, because I have no fucking clue where it dumps its magic.
** Ellinill-whatever theory and the Widow being one of that Elven God's surviving offspring making her domain related to blizzards and cold.

Final thoughts, Runes having either Thungni?or some other mechanism to enforce a new state onto the Winds, and it seems fairly likely the Widow does the same for Ice Magic is a neat way to square that weird circle in lore. :^)
 
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you know with all these copies of books that we make everywhere and that we plan to make soon I would be surprised if mathilde does not have a significant impact on the price and the industry of ink, paper and bookbinding in the old world and if I remember correctly with our library which authorizes copies there are probably a certain number of scribes, binders, printers (already invented or not?) and paper and ink manufacturers who sing our name because they have work to do for the next decades.

edit,maybe we can invest to create our own(or partly own) paper,ink,printing,,binding industry colse to our library so people who want to get a copy will just have to pay us ?,more money and facilitate the spreading of knowledge
 
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Right. There are some things you need 27 kilometers of tunnels under Switzerland to figure out, not a single dilettante in a medieval laboratory.

We're gonna need a lot of glass and ink.
No, what we are going to need is enough dwarf miners for 27 km of tunnels and Switzerland. Huh, what would be an equivalent in whfb? :thonk:
Boris: Such a great change set into motion, from such a short exchange. It is terrifying to see how easily one of the Empire's agents can destroy the head of Kislev, and yet that ease in and of itself shows the extent to which this nation has fallen. I will have to answer before the gods for my actions someday, and my only wish is that I do not squander this opportunity and fail my people, when the price was already so great. And yet, that burden may only grow - I have now placed myself in debt to this fearsome shadow, and can only hope that the demands she levies on me someday are something I can bear.

Mathilde: giv böök
King Belegar Angrund and Grand Count Konstantin von Liebwitz: First time? :V
Now I'm just imagining the solution being to hire someone to basically do the job of Stanley from the Stanley Parable: An incredibly bored operator whose sole job is to wait until at least two of the 8 wind threshold lights turn on, and then press the corresponding send buttons.

It's a terrible solution, but amusing to imagine.
Youngest and least skilled of Caledor the Dragontamer's companions*: *resigned grumbling*


* Still over a millenium old Archmage:V
 
So thinking things through for the boon, There are two things I would want, one is the right for the colleges to scavenge the Fire Spire and attempt to deal with whatever is going on with it, the other is that Kislev sends boys with magic to the colleges.
 
So thinking things through for the boon, There are two things I would want, one is the right for the colleges to scavenge the Fire Spire and attempt to deal with whatever is going on with it, the other is that Kislev sends boys with magic to the colleges.

I mentioned going into the Fire Spire back when we were talking about Vlag and the like, the GM pointed out that it has been looted constantly by adventurers for the past almost 200 years so there is no guarantee there is anything even worth an AP in there, much less a favor of this scale.
 
Mathilde Weber, Class Name Berserker

Mathilde Weber (Berseker)


Source is Unknown on my end

Director,

Finally some good fortune. We have managed to summon a servant to help take some of the load off our shoulders, and snatched a run on the Enemy. Once again, a King of Demons has underestimated me. Mathilde, in the guise of a Berserker. She holds her secrets well, and I would not ask her for them; but the demons seem to fall away from her in any case, and more hands make lighter work.

-Ristuka Fujimaru

She sat by the side of his corpse like a puppet with the strings cut as people flow into and out of the tent; Kasmir says a prayer for his soul, guilt etched into his face.

Class: Berserker, 2 Star

-She is the crystalization and incarnation and encapsulation of one, terrible, moment in Mathilde Weber's life: the day Abelhem Van Hal perished in battle facing down the Vampire Counts of Sylvania. Oh, the Rider has some part of that in her too as the legend of the Dämmerlichtreiter; but this was Mathilde Weber, the woman, the person, not the living myth. This is her rage, fire hardened and mighty, the part of her that took up Orc Hewer and slew and killed and slaughtered and maimed in the name of her slain lord. To a lesser extent all things that have enraged her seem to influenced this incarnation.

It is not a class that much matches her. For one, the god of rage in her understanding of the world vehemently opposes magic and mages and so to give in to rage is not in her nature. For another, the Wind of Ulgu is a subtle thing, not much prone to expressing wrath and anger except painfully subtly, if at all. I am, if anything, shocked that she is as strong as she is; I suspect she has her secrets, but then so do I.

Titles: Lady Magister of the Grey Order, Knight of Stirland, Thane of Karak Eight Peaks, Loremaster, The Dämmerlichtreiter, Sängerkritisch, Dawongr, Azrildrekked, the Silver Savage, Dawizhufokri, Spymistress of Stirland, War-Councillor of the Expedition to Karak Eight Peaks, Court Wizard of Karak Eight Peaks, Loremaster of Karak Eight Peaks

Alignment: Lawful Good

Attribute: Star

Parameters:
Strength: D
Endurance: C
Agility: B+
Mana: B
Luck: D
Noble Phantasm: A

Class Skills:
Riding Skill C: She is an able rider, gamely hunting down and striking at all those who have incurred her fury,.

Madness Enhancement E: Her character actively rebels against the deepest depths of madness, driven by the iron training of the Gray Order to resist being influenced by Dhar, or by worse thing...but her rage has still granted her strength and clarity.

Mana Resistance A:...This is higher than it should be. Against all manner of magic, but especially against Dark Magic, Dhar, and the Undead, she has proven all but unstrikable with magic, almost as though she is unweaving it.

Personal Skills:
Valor B:
She knows no fear, no hesistation, only bravery and loyalty and rage, rage at those who would harm her companions.

Mind's Eye (Fake) B: Berserker is not a subtle, stealthy class but even so fallen she can at least pull tricky nonsense, summoning a cloud of mists to hide for the breifest moment before she strikes for instance.

Mystic Slayer D: Archer may have killed the most vampires and torn down Castle Drakenhof with guns...but it was Berserker who took up Dwarf-forged blade and entered hand-to-hand against undead and carved their skulls from their bodies in the name of the Empire, Berserker who has felt fetid, foul blood splash against her skin, Berserker that the Undead know to fear.

Noble Phantasms:
Orc Hewer( The Blessed Blade of Grafs)
Rank: A+
Anti Unit
Range: 1
Targets: 1000


-For a brief moment, Mathilde Weber held the Runefang of Stirland; for a brief moment Mathilde Weber held the power of a god. They were mighty blades when they were simply runic work, forged by a mighty prodigy as a gift for a barbarian king-cum-god. Now they are sheathed in holy light, and holy weight, and holy power, considered blessed by the Empire. There is nothing they cannot carve through, nothing they cannot cut, nothing they cannot slice. The perfect sword, influencing its wielder as well as rebuking the darkness. And her allies who see it shall grow strong for it.

Candle of Cleansing Radiance( It Will Not Happen Again)
Rank: D
Buff
Range: 1-10
Targets: 10+


-A candle enchanted with magic to provide healing, aid, and beneficence to those within its light. It effects those within its glow, restoring them to health and vigor and heartiness. It is more potent than it should be?

Personality: Her wits are still all about her, and she is more together than nearly any other Berserker, for all like most she still tosses herself into battle with fury and rage in her heart. But there is an odd elusiveness, evasiveness, and detachment to her, as though she hides some terrible secret from the world.

Relationships:

The Boarfriend:
Oddly, she is the Mathilde that seems to most get along with Sigmar, seeming more inclined to try and pin him down and ask him why he would abandon Abelhelm than to try and kill him. They have spoken for hours on the matter.

First Hassan: She loathes the undead with a vigor, and King Hassan is close enough to set her off it seems. Not enough to try and attack him yet, but enough that her hand twitches for her blade, and magic seems to writhe around her.

Kintoki: As the other most sane Berserker the two have spoken at lengths in controlling and understanding and chaining the madness that, even so, thrashes and rages inside of them. The call to slay the enemy, to fight and battle and rage.

I'm gonna call these semi-finished here, in that there's a chance I might pop out, IDK, an Alter Ego or Avenger or something but you know, I would still feel satisfied even if I didn't.
 
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