Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Did she say that?After all, she's explicitly said that necromancers don't touch Dhar directly for spellcasting, and only go mad after years of living in Dhar-poisoned environment
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Somic
It's meow or never
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I was rereading and she did. Won't find the exact page tho, it could be anywhere.
Edit: okay no, I lied, I can't resist the lure of looking for sources.
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- Location
- North Wales
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
That said, I expect that a lot of necromancers start out as sloppier casters than average (given the lower-than-average level of formal training) and end up creating Dhar internally while trying to work Shyish, giving them a bit of a head-start on the whole "cackling at your enemies' inevitable doom" thing by the time they've sharpened their craft.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
While we're on the tangent, I've been wondering if the trick in Fated's ??? clause is about altering Mathilde's past.
The entire Architecture of Fate update shows the use of Tzeentchian Sorcery to alter the past so that the monologue had always happened. It would fit if the effect the resultant trait had on Mathilde was just... more of the same.
As a bonus it also takes utterly bonkers things like the Van Horstman book and makes them fit with the quest's characterization. If part of the point of the Plotter's hold on people was altering their past so that rather than happenstance, torn grief, or chance encounters, they were ever more dedicated, their actions ever more ridiculous and over the top. Instead of being fated from the start, prophecy could be constructed in the aftermath.
And, of course, it's a potent temptation as well. The implicit promise that, if you had control of this magic, you could take one of those tragic rolls of three successive 1s on the dice, and flip to to be something just a little higher. A sister who never fell ill, a child who was never born wrong, a liege who never died in battle.
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dinomannitro6
all your gender is belong to us
- Location
- The Land Where The Sunflowers Bloom
Weird thought: when Gazul first cut out the Glittering Realm and started sending dawi souls there, there was a time for a while where it wasn't the realm of your ancestors. Like there was presumably some first dawi to be sent there, and it would take some time for there to be another generation after that.
I wonder if there was any time after Gazul's priesthood was set up where it wasn't an automatic choice to be sent down, or if once the option was there everyone took it if they could.
I wonder if there was any time after Gazul's priesthood was set up where it wasn't an automatic choice to be sent down, or if once the option was there everyone took it if they could.
I'd choose death over any kind of deal with Chaos, however trivial, that just feels in character, same reason I would choose death over even using minor necromancy. I think that vote would be at least somewhat competitive, but I suspect the main point of contention would be what the follow up to that death is. If it were 'Eike Quest' I think death before corruption would ultimately win, otherwise it would be more dicey IMO.
- Location
- Germany
I mean, Mathilde did reach out for the only energy available to close her pocket-dimension, even if that was Tzeentchian.
She is not the type to not act.
She'd obviously rather risk something than let something bad happen with certainty through non-action.
And I do think that can be extended to more obviously corrupting options, if the alternatives are bad enough.
- Location
- Somewhere on Earth
This is a bit of a late response, but it occurs to me that could actually kinda work for a quest. Not this one, obviously, but a witch hunter quest or suchlike, where the focus is on surviving the endless bullshit the world throws at a mortal. Let the players discharge corruption points via losing AP, allowing disadvantage on actions, or specific events the QM offers. I think that'd help not make people panic every time they gained a single corruption point, but still makes the cost significant.
I do not think she reached for it so much as she did not know how not to take it in, that is how the trait works. The only way to reject it would be to stop casting magic. There is a difference between that and knowingly embracing Chaos.
Huh. *Has* Mathilde ever outright broken the articles without having some level of fig leaf? I know there was supposedly some technicality about the Libre Mortis. She embezzled a bit early on, but that's lesser laws and rules than the articles themselves.
- Location
- Germany
She could have left her hole in reality open rather than drawing on chaotic power, she didn't.
She fixed her mistake with the tools available.
She didn't even think about running away from her problem.
She tried closing the pocket-dimension from the moment she knew something went wrong and ultimately she did manage to fix it.
It's far from embracing corruption willingly, but if needs must, power is power.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
I think, if I were tzeetch and I was trying to use Mathilde, I'd do it as a three-step.
First, show up and predict a disaster, with some details on the chain of events that leads to it, knowing Mathilde will probably ignore it.
Then have it happen as predicted.
Then show up again, and predict another disaster, with chain of events details, but this one is much easier for Mathilde to stop.
Have it happen as predicted. Whether or not Mathilde acts, it should be obvious that things were going as described
Then show up the third time. Predict another disaster. This time lie utterly about everything, to paint a target on an unrelated party, but make it plausible and by the same pattern as before.
First, show up and predict a disaster, with some details on the chain of events that leads to it, knowing Mathilde will probably ignore it.
Then have it happen as predicted.
Then show up again, and predict another disaster, with chain of events details, but this one is much easier for Mathilde to stop.
Have it happen as predicted. Whether or not Mathilde acts, it should be obvious that things were going as described
Then show up the third time. Predict another disaster. This time lie utterly about everything, to paint a target on an unrelated party, but make it plausible and by the same pattern as before.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
I didn't want to make this argument when we were voting for our last sword-style upgrade choice, but 'both' did look to be worringly perfectionist.
In a world with Slaneesh, accepting things as "good enough" is a self defence method.
Somic
It's meow or never
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Mathilde is a Lady Magister of the Paranoia College. Two completely correct predictions wouldn't be enough to make her trust a daemon's words. Even twenty wouldn't.
If she acted on this, she would double and triple check everything, and there's no guarantee she wouldn't just disregard the daemon's predictions and act as if she heard nothing from it.
You all do know that Mathilde's life has been a part of a Tzeentchian plot since Abelhelm's death, right?
I mean think about it. A bunch of unlikely coincidences send Abelhelm to his death bed, and then a series of unlikely magical mishaps mean he can't be saved. The Wind-lord fucks up two Wizards and then the Great Schemer distracts a God from helping his servant at an important time, and Mathilde foolishly decides to blame Sigmar for it. So she leaves the Empire, goes to K8P, and intervenes in a Greenskin ritual in a critical moment - a Greenskin ritual that Mathilde knows was a part of a Tzeentchian plot, yet she still didn't put the puzzle pieces together!
Now sure, Mathilde also did a lot of things that Chaos didn't benefit from. Like killing a Chaos champion of Khrone...or take back Karak Vlag from Slaanesh...or fuck up clan Mors even more than it already was, ensuring the extinction of the Skaven clan that was allied with clan Pestilens, no doubt foiling Nurgle's plot...all part of the plan.
(also Mathilde's friend most likely to fall to Slaanesh is Max, and he already did so in the background after the battle with the daemons during the Dum expedition, you're all blind)
I mean think about it. A bunch of unlikely coincidences send Abelhelm to his death bed, and then a series of unlikely magical mishaps mean he can't be saved. The Wind-lord fucks up two Wizards and then the Great Schemer distracts a God from helping his servant at an important time, and Mathilde foolishly decides to blame Sigmar for it. So she leaves the Empire, goes to K8P, and intervenes in a Greenskin ritual in a critical moment - a Greenskin ritual that Mathilde knows was a part of a Tzeentchian plot, yet she still didn't put the puzzle pieces together!
Now sure, Mathilde also did a lot of things that Chaos didn't benefit from. Like killing a Chaos champion of Khrone...or take back Karak Vlag from Slaanesh...or fuck up clan Mors even more than it already was, ensuring the extinction of the Skaven clan that was allied with clan Pestilens, no doubt foiling Nurgle's plot...all part of the plan.
(also Mathilde's friend most likely to fall to Slaanesh is Max, and he already did so in the background after the battle with the daemons during the Dum expedition, you're all blind)
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
You joke, but there are in universe implications that Ranald is naught but a different front for Tzeentch.
It is one of those theories that doesn't really gel with the rest of the setting (like Khaine being Khorne in disguise), but it is there.
No. That's one of the reasons the Tongs got dropped. Because that would have been breaking the articles, full out. She'd still have the excuse that she's not touching Dhar directly, and she's personally protected from a lot of dhar exposure, but the thread decided this was a line it did not want to cross. IIRC, it wasn't a particularly tight vote.
Mathilde has had a few occasions where she was offered power with very little cost to herself and rejected it. The Tongs are one, the Divine ID crystals where another (though murkier, since the benefits were unclear, and so were the risks), and I'd count paying out to Helga, Gotrek's widow as a small scale example too (that was enough cash to make things happen, even if not enough to hire an army). The last one had a very real risk of pissing off the Ancient Widow, but we didn't realize that until afterwards, so it's not like that influenced the decision.
- Location
- Earth
Yep, if Mathilde feels desperately in need of power developing tongs further into her own Ulgu-Dhar tongs would be a much more likely way to go.
Perhaps with some attempts at raiding Eshin for magic books, though it'd be much more risky if they aren't at war with other Skaven Clans at the moment.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Imagine the sheer, unbridled panic if Boney gave this post an Insightful rating.
If two correct predictions are enough to get Mathilde to trust a daemon than clearly she has been snoozing in those anti-Chaos lessons. Maybe if he did it 99 times or something but not three and that is kind of a lot of major disasters to set up for this one magister.*
Fundamentally the reason that Mathilde cannot (willingly) fall to Chaos is because she is a player character, it is the same reason why necromancy had single digit votes in spite of the perfect storm that was gaining the Liber Mortis right after Ablehelm's death. We, the players, are not as emotionally invested in this as a person in that position would actually be. We know, beyond all self-deception, that doing X Y and Z can only go badly because that is how the setting is built.
*I am assuming Tzeench pays some kind of cost for all this effort for the sake of argument, otherwise he would be predicting disasters to all people at all times like metaphysical radio station you can't turn off
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- Location
- A Pit Of My Own Making
- Pronouns
- He/Him
grabs with both hands, runs off holding it above my head, cacklingBoney, thought you might appreciate this- somebody's attempt to create a Zharralid (Chaos Dwarf language in Total Warhammer 3) lexicon, based on lines from the game.
Steam Community :: Guide :: Zharralid: A guide to understanding the Chaos Dwarf Language
Hello, I have a lot of spare time and I absolutely love to do some independent research on fantasy languages. So we know from some other sources that Zharralid resembles Khazalid grammatically (whichsteamcommunity.com
This is mine now!
"the demon was correct the first X times, so it must be correct now" is kinda like a slippery slope argument, and the problem with slippery slope arguments is that not only can we evaluate each scenario on its individual context, but we're also under no obligation to repeat previous actions—it's not hypocritical to do something one time, and then do the opposite thing the next time something similar happens.
So a demon trying to establish a pattern and then throw us off by changing the pattern, isn't going to really work because because we're unlikely to view its actions holistically and instead judge it based on the immediate context.
So a demon trying to establish a pattern and then throw us off by changing the pattern, isn't going to really work because because we're unlikely to view its actions holistically and instead judge it based on the immediate context.
Well, the sinking of the monitor that carried the dwarves metallurgy guild was a pretty big unscheduled "uh oh." We still don't know who was behind it, but it seems likely that it was some subset of Chaos, because in my opinion, no order polity, even Marienburg, benefits enough from that kind of stunt to risk war with the dwarves.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
It's heavily implied, based on the social turn before last, that it was the doing of a Chaos cult within Marienburg.
So the presence of clues pointing both subtly to Marienburg and incredibly blatantly to Marienburg would have been the result of a plot that was, in fact, based within Marienburg, but which was attempting to frame the polity of Marienburg, probably with the goal to inspire war with the Karaz Ankor and even kick off War of the Ancients Round Two if the cultists got lucky and Ulthuan honored its treaty. That's why we were so confused, because it looked like a frame-job where both the framer and the framee were the same person, which made no sense. Assuming this is correct, it is a good thing we gave Belegar the recommendation we did, because while it hurts the Dwarven psyche to not have a clear target for a Grudge, Grudging the wrong target would have been far worse.