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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Retrueno said:
What about getting a primary source: kidnap a Waaagh Shaman and repeat the Qretch gambit?
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There is considerably more risk in trying to hold a Shaman than an unmagical warlord.

I'm not sure exactly how much power a Shaman on it's own would have, but they're also Greenskins- I'm not sure it would be able to predict what it'll do any better than we could.
 
Alliterate said:
That's pretty much just a dialled-up version of the existing Take No Heed spell effect, isn't it?
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Yes, I think so.
Boney said:
K / Take No Heed: Makes you very easy to ignore - it would take an act of willpower to even notice you unless you draw attention to yourself, and those few that do notice you will have difficulty remembering anything about you. Lasts a few minutes.
- Please note unless you draw attention to yourself. If the presence of a member of your (apparent) species would be unusual, this spell will break. If you do something that only certain individuals should be allowed to do, this spell will break.
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The main difference would seem to be the expansion or elimination of the 'drawing attention clause'.

I think we could brute force it, more or less, from one of two ends. The first, and most aggressive, is to try and lay out so much magic that everybody just gets swamped from the start. This would basically be empowering the 'difficulty remembering anything about you even if they do see you' aspect. The weakness is that they'll be struggling more from the outset, so if they can break free in the small gaps the spell lets them have, they definitely will.

The second, and more subtle, would be to try to aggressively conform to their expectations so much that nothing we do counts as drawing attention. This would essentially be mixing the spell with another spell like Eye of the Beholder or Cloak Activity, so that no matter what we do they see something appropriate. Perhaps Bewilder?
 
Retrueno said:
What about getting a primary source: kidnap a Waaagh Shaman and repeat the Qretch gambit?
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That we have a great need to be able to translate written Orc communications quickly but other Grey wizards who do know the written Orcish language keep that knowledge secret to maintain their power, even though as a result we miss out on time limited opportunities we would otherwise have if we could read the Orcish communication?
Mopman43 said:
There is considerably more risk in trying to hold a Shaman than an unmagical warlord.

I'm not sure exactly how much power a Shaman on it's own would have, but they're also Greenskins- I'm not sure it would be able to predict what it'll do any better than we could.
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Have I missed something obvious?

How would lying to an Orc Shaman get us things? What would the lie be?
 
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I'd like to take time to point out that the Windsoak Mushrooms got their start as the Waaaghsoak Mushrooms, so we know of at least one material that can absorb Waaagh energy.
 
BeepSmile said:
But I'd only be interested in spending effort on this if we could find/aim to find some sort of material or substance that reacts to the WAGHHH field that isn't the orcoid fungus.
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Find some sort of magical critter that dislikes Waaagh energy that we can start a breeding program for and then distribute? I know warhammer is a deathworld but there's presumably *some* creatures that are magical without being maneating horrors. They'd just typically be below the abstraction of a wargame.
 
Wiggy said:
Find some sort of magical critter that dislikes Waaagh energy that we can start a breeding program for and then distribute? I know warhammer is a deathworld but there's presumably *some* creatures that are magical without being maneating horrors. They'd just typically be below the abstraction of a wargame.
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Well, finding one that can sense magical energies and is relatively non-threatening.

Unicorns are said to 'taste magic', so they'd probably be able to sense it, but capturing one would probably be more of a hassle than it's worth.
 
So, a few ideas I had:

-Waagh detection: if detecting the energies directly is so difficult, we just need to detect concentrations of greenskins. If our mountain of doom already has clauses for Greenskins, it means that it can be coded. It would be a matter a coming up with a long range scanner of sentient beings.
-Waaghsoak mushrooms: do they work on Dhar? If so, could they be used as discount waystones? Bring an insulated box to sylvania, get the mushrooms to soak up the Dhar, then free them near a nexus so that the Dhar gets sucked into the Network.
 
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Mopman43 said:
Well, finding one that can sense magical energies and is relatively non-threatening.

Unicorns are said to 'taste magic', so they'd probably be able to sense it, but capturing one would probably be more of a hassle than it's worth.
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I suppose using a transformation of kadon enchantment to turn a bunch of people into a unicorn population gets a bit too mad sciency.
 
Weren't those mushrooms specifically grown to give orks a burst of waaagh energy when eaten, or am I misremembering?

Or, well, I guess that's more 'storing' than reacting, isn't it?
 
infinityDivided said:
I'd like to take time to point out that the Windsoak Mushrooms got their start as the Waaaghsoak Mushrooms, so we know of at least one material that can absorb Waaagh energy.
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Interesting idea.
Hmmm, I think it might be allowed by the dwarves of K8P for there to be some Windsoak Mushrooms set up in a place where they will only be exposed to a Waaagh field and no winds [near the tunnel entrance?] provided we explain we want to check what happens to the mushrooms when exposed to the field - are Waaagh infused mushrooms reactive to the field? If so, for how long, and do they stay reactive after harvesting?

How reactive and is it in a way that can measured with a device?

...Do the mushrooms themselves become orc-fungus?
If they can be harvested, can they be infused somehow into some sort of compound/material that stays reactive for a long time and last much longer than a dead mushroom?

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If we explain our goals to Kragg/Thorek with this experiment, I think/hope they'd be willing to set up some sort of secure runic system that lets for easy inceration of the setup if things look be going a bit wonky, since it'd be occurring near a place where orcs are coming towards anyway.

We might have to pay AV for their time, since this is low-probability shot-in-the-dark research, but it could be worthwhile.
Dermonster said:
Weren't those mushrooms specifically grown to give orks a burst of waaagh energy when eaten, or am I misremembering?

Or, well, I guess that's more 'storing' than reacting, isn't it?
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Yeah, but I'm hoping that there's some sort of 'stored waghh energy reacts to other sources of waghh energy in a way that makes the storage thing do something measurable' thing going on.
 
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chocolote12 said:
Yes, I think so.

The main difference would seem to be the expansion or elimination of the 'drawing attention clause'.

I think we could brute force it, more or less, from one of two ends. The first, and most aggressive, is to try and lay out so much magic that everybody just gets swamped from the start. This would basically be empowering the 'difficulty remembering anything about you even if they do see you' aspect. The weakness is that they'll be struggling more from the outset, so if they can break free in the small gaps the spell lets them have, they definitely will.

The second, and more subtle, would be to try to aggressively conform to their expectations so much that nothing we do counts as drawing attention. This would essentially be mixing the spell with another spell like Eye of the Beholder or Cloak Activity, so that no matter what we do they see something appropriate. Perhaps Bewilder?
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Perhaps the drawing attention clause could be reformed in an higher-difficulty spell to focus on working in conjunction with Invisibility. "Ignore all the subtle cues or other senses you might have telling you otherwise, trust your vision, there is nothing here." The 'ignore field' would plainly be broken by the Invisibility being broken.

It might be a little game-y, though. Aside from the possible problem of concentrating on two spells.
 
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Turn 48:
We have yet to peel off an AP to hunt down the Iron Orcs.
In our place, we send to the Bretonnians a slightly wobbly purple mushroom with a bunch of copper wires plugged into it and a note labeled "Follow The Squeaking"
 
It's unclear whether "magesight" is unified enough to count as a singular "sense" across all people with the ability to perceive magic, given the enormous number of forms it can take.
That said, if it is, or with sufficient study into the nature of wind-sight it can be treated as such, then suddenly fooling it with Ulgu becomes as simple as fooling any other sense.

Basically, imagine that you had a mastery of Illusion that let you manipulate magesight. In such a case, when you cast an Illusion of absence, the existence of the Ulgu that shapes the spell that fools the magesight becomes irrelevant, in the same way that a caster holding a bright shining light while under an Illusion still won't be seen by someone with normal sight.

Obviously there's no guarantees here, but if I was going to try to create that effect magically*, an Illusion of absence which targeted the non-traditional sense of magesight would be my first guess.

*Eshin's trick might not be a magical effect. We know that mundane materials can stop the winds, so it might be a technique where you're able to hide the winds within your soul by doing some meditative nonsense** that causes you to lose attunement with any of the emotions tied to any of the winds, which when combined with specially made clothing plus mundane stealth means you can blend in with the scenery.

**The ninja rats entering some sort of quasi-enlightenment state to enhance some of their abilities? Some sort of "sage mode", if you will? :thonk:
 
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Tomcost said:
-Waaghsoak mushrooms: do they work on Dhar? If so, could they be used as discount waystones? Bring an insulated box to sylvania, get the mushrooms to soak up the Dhar, then free them near a nexus so that the Dhar gets uppled into the Network.
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I mean, they'd probably take it in, but it feels like it'd be like trying to bail out a sinking submarine with a sponge. The scale is too different.
 
ReImagined said:
I mean, they'd probably take it in, but it feels like it'd be like trying to bail out a sinking submarine with a sponge. The scale is too different.
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I mean, we might not cleanse sylvania with it... but if we are talking auditory alarm bells for villages, why not wind absorbers for villages too?

If there is a thing that peasants can do, is grow stuff, and move loads from one place to another.
 
On a hypothetical WADAR (Waaagh Detection and Ranging) project, the first thing that comes to mind is those completely enclosed terrariums that only need light but are otherwise completely isolated ecosystems.

Presuming greenskin fungus is Waaagh energy reactive (which does require testing), ensure such a terrarium is too small for a snotling and I could see such a sensor being fairly straightforward… in theory.

Sufficiently clear glass, the cost of such glass, and the fact it's delicate glass preventing a release of greenskin spores are strong limiting factors. Probably over engineered anyway though.

(Also even if the fungus itself is insufficient, green skins can last a long time underground right, unless that's purely a 40K thing? If so I wonder if we could hypothetically capture a snotling embryo and suspend it in such an enclosure, enough energy and nutrition within to live but not enough to grow to birth. Super dodgy but just a thought.)

The dream case is if dead greenskin mushrooms work, if they can be suspended in a simple metal container… wait frozen greenskins. Is Birdmuncha still frozen? Could we check if he has Waaagh energy present or is otherwise reactive?

Using cryogenically frozen greenskins as sensors is crazy enough it fits perfectly in Warhammer lmao.
 
Tomcost said:
-Waaghsoak mushrooms: do they work on Dhar? If so, could they be used as discount waystones? Bring an insulated box to sylvania, get the mushrooms to soak up the Dhar, then free them near a nexus so that the Dhar gets sucked into the Network.
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Releasing an invasive species of fungi that concentrates dark magic in substantial quantities into itself into Sylvania strikes me as a really bad idea.
 
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Gavin Prince said:
Turn 48:
We have yet to peel off an AP to hunt down the Iron Orcs.
In our place, we send to the Bretonnians a slightly wobbly purple mushroom with a bunch of copper wires plugged into it and a note labeled "Follow The Squeaking"
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That's actually a good question, these are Chaos Orcs, would they even generate Waaagh energy?
 
Magesight understands Waaagh energy. We are working a seviriscope. The auditory one will likely be able to sense waaagh energies from some distance. Toss some shielding around it so that it only senses in one direction, and use it as a ranged scope, listening for bad sounds. Or combine with the idea to hook up the sounds to a vibration sensor. There's your Waaagh (and dhar) sensor.
 
Abhorsen said:
Magesight understands Waaagh energy. We are working a seviriscope. The auditory one will likely be able to sense waaagh energies from some distance. Toss some shielding around it so that it only senses in one direction, and use it as a ranged scope, listening for bad sounds. Or combine with the idea to hook up the sounds to a vibration sensor. There's your Waaagh (and dhar) sensor.
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Boney's posts would indicate that this isn't workable without a friendly Waaagh caster on staff.
Boney said:
Waaagh Magic generally reacts with Waaagh Magic and greenskins and not much else. There's no readily apparent automatable Teclisean method for spotting it that Mathilde can currently think of. The only avenues to start experimentation without delving full on into wielding Waaagh Magic herself would be to experiment with various types of greenskin-derived fungus to see if there's any that visibly react to Waaagh energies that also won't result in a new bloom of greenskins in the surrounding area, and that's got 'first five minutes of a post-apocalypse movie' written all over it. If such a thing could be built and was proven to be safe, then pretty much every border fort and watchtower on the continent would want one.
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Boney said:
Securing test subjects and access to Waaagh energies isn't the problem. The problem is that Mathilde is not a Waaagh Shaman and therefore not capable of making enchantments made out of Waaagh energies that would be easily capable of detecting other Waaagh energies, and that there's no friendly organization of Waaagh alchemists out there that can supply her with Waaagh-reactive materials.
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Basically, there's all sorts of materials that react with the Winds (just think of the turns where we were building wind-specific towers), and very few that react to the Waaagh.
 
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Mopman43 said:
There is considerably more risk in trying to hold a Shaman than an unmagical warlord.

I'm not sure exactly how much power a Shaman on it's own would have, but they're also Greenskins- I'm not sure it would be able to predict what it'll do any better than we could.
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While it'd be more risk I don't think it'd reach the point of significant. We can pay people to guard him and kill him if necessary.

Also if they can use Waaagh magic while alone it could also be a chance to study Waaagh magic. Maybe even some radical Runesmiths could study it develop more efficient runes against them or something (although I do not find it likely)

BeepSmile said:
How would lying to an Orc Shaman get us things? What would the lie be?
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I phrased it wrong, my idea was less about lying and more about extracting information of him.

Extracting information about Waaagh magic would be really great, but if not information about anything that reacts to Waaagh like the mushrooms and how they perform/spells rituals could be good.
 
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