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Also to be fair to the other half of the Dämmerlichtreiter, there is another hat wearing individual whose appearance would matter.

Even if the Stirlandian peasants we're cribbing from were going for maximum accuracy, it still wouldn't look exactly like Mathilde because Roswita is half of the legend too and they see her a lot more often (IE they see her at all).
 
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I don't doubt Auditory is going to be really usefull. Like, when we were in Talabheim having auditory warning bells in the streets whenever Alberich carriage passed them by would be extremly usefull. Allowing a lot less Dhar cultist and such to pass by as freely. They could probaly still do it, but that's an AP spend on hiding and not an AP spent on making themself Stronger. In terms of making cultist's life a lot harder, it seems to be a genuinly amazing game changer.

But i don't quite feel like, a giant mass of Orc's screaming WAGGG is exactly the subtle kind that you can only pick up on early with an auditory. Though maybe i'm heavily underestimating just how sensitive it can be against spesific signals.
 
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I love the idea of the auditory Seviroscope, because anything that can be translated into sound can become a mechanical movement. The simplest example of this is a seismograph-type rollout with the bouncing needles that can record ambient wind measurements over time.

Instead of having to rely on eyeballing locations and trying to keep written records, the Colleges and the Elector Counts can send out surveyors to any location they please and have a relatively accurate understanding of what the mystical environment tends to look like in an area over the course of a week or month.

The main use for that is noticing sudden spikes in uncommon winds that can point towards important environmental changes.

Build-ups of Dhar or the other Malefic Magics seem like the first use case, but you could maybe also use it to see if the Ghyran in a field is going up or down over the course of a week, which might be able to indicate if a set of crops might be going bad -- a sudden bout of Ghur might let you tell the difference between an incursion of hiding Beastmen or a pack of hungry animals.

You can also use the devices as a defensive type of vetting. If a person pings Dhar that's definitely a Hint, and hiding that sort of thing is not easy or quick.

Vetting-scopes along the halls can also detect large quantities of Ulgu; it's a bit of a self-own, but if I recall correctly Invisibility is mystically visible, and the Scope telling guards that Ulgu is in an empty hallway of, say, the Imperial Palace is a pretty good use-case.

It would be very expensive, but you could also employ an auditory Seviroscope as the mechanism for a straightforward trap; Dhar cutting a tripwire as surely as a misplaced foot.
 
I understand why it's happening, and that they're only mutually exclusive in the short term, but I have to admit I'm a tad amused that the thread is simultaneously more excited and speculative about the auditory Seviroscope and near-unanimously voting for the visual version instead.
 
If a person pings Dhar that's definitely a Hint, and hiding that sort of thing is not easy or quick.
I suspect there'd be a lot of poor folks that got caught out by morrslieb that would get lynched if these became common.
Vetting-scopes along the halls can also detect large quantities of Ulgu; it's a bit of a self-own, but if I recall correctly Invisibility is mystically visible, and the Scope telling guards that Ulgu is in an empty hallway of, say, the Imperial Palace is a pretty good use-case.
The university will pay top dollar for these to stop people stealing their skeletons mid exam lol.
 
This is probably an idea that will lead to nothing, but what do you think about growing a Gyran infused tree but exposing it to a continuous stream of another wind (like Chamon). Maybe the wood will end up having some interesting properties
 
This is probably an idea that will lead to nothing, but what do you think about growing a Gyran infused tree but exposing it to a continuous stream of another wind (like Chamon). Maybe the wood will end up having some interesting properties
We could probably look at trees in graveyards? A lot of latent Shyish around in most of those.
 
Still rereading.
If there is a way to hide completely from Magesight instead of it being a matter of one person's hiding vs another person's spotting, it would be about as restricted as Battle Magic because it would make rogue Grey Wizards infinitely harder to deal with.
I'm assuming that since we didn't get an introductory pamphlet for "Invisibility beyond invisibility" upon being promoted it means the Colleges have yet to find a way to completely hide from magical detection.

...Unless there is, and Algard's going to be like "Well, you never asked.".
 
Yeah, this is fair. It's actually something I think an auditory Seviroscope might be useful for if we decide to develop it later. Sort of a first step, "build the tools to build the tools" in aetheric measurements and studies. If Waaagh "frequencies" can be mapped and differentiated, it might be possible. Not something for the short term, but with the right study and direction, long term it might be achievable.
Oooh, but what you could do is hand them out to dwarves so they can target the people using the Waaagh Energy, and possibly the warboss! IDK how comfortable it would be to use, but it would have been designed by a dwarf at least.
 
I understand why it's happening, and that they're only mutually exclusive in the short term, but I have to admit I'm a tad amused that the thread is simultaneously more excited and speculative about the auditory Seviroscope and near-unanimously voting for the visual version instead.
For an individual craftsman *cough*Kragg-senpai*cough*, visual is probably more immediately useful for experimentation. For the technology at the time, something auditory/tangible is more easily made measurable, e.g. tuning forks vs color differentiation.
 
I think payment is one of the least important issues towards a magical waaagh-detection system. Like, grey wizards are supposed to be idealists and Gretel is even one of our ducklings. Mathilde could absolutely 'coincidentally' develop and publish a spell that does what gretel needs, if we really want to.

The real question is: do we think we should do it? Is it worth it?
 
In MF the sword is an Old One artifact called "Tlanxla's Sword of Judgement", cleverly stolen from Daemon God called Ulgu. In LUMW the sword is actually Morr's sword, which Verena takes when Morr refuses to respond to the Coming of Chaos, thereby shaming Him and the other Gods into action.
Queen Verena with her sword of light[...]"
Maybe it's simply been lost in translation, but why would a sword of Ulgu be made of light? Was Ulgu hiding Hysh? Or... I kinda want to imagine that "Tlanxla's Sword of Judgement" is more mystical: Ulgu can be the shadows between light and dark, but it can also be the dividing line that separates (judgement) light and dark apart. Or it's something else entirely.
"Behind him rode King Morr, bringing the darkness of death, and Queen Verena with her sword of light, and Father Taal with the fury of the lion, and Mother Rhya with the strength of the mother bear, and Manaan brought the sea forth into the field[...]"
This seems to be attributing different Winds to each god: Shyish for Morr, Hysh for Verena, Aqshy for Taal, Ghur for Rhya, Ghyran for Manaan.

Something else that just clicked for me:
And now that tiresome bore and your best friend Cd-2 wants you to go with them to check on the Northern Polar Infrastructure team.
Transcendent Ranald: Your relationship with Ranald is not one of temples and priests. He is your oldest and most annoying friend.
Ranald and Ulric used to be best friends. Which puts a new meaning behind Ranald gifting Wolf to Mathilde. (And before that, a priest of Ranald who named himself Wolf.)
 
I've been looking over the thread, and I don't think I've seen the point raised before but.... If the Red Rider preys on Battle Magic as in the category of spellcraft, not just magic of battlefield destruction, would that place an upper limit on the complexity of any spell used to bind and unleash it?

No, she meant magic that causes battlefield-scale destruction.

I wonder what Wisdom's Asps represent under this school of thought. The fear of changing so you don't recognise yourself in the mirror combined with the fear of a silent assassination, possibly with a touch of the self-destructive and seductive allure of forbidden knowledge?

Looks at Mathilde's entire career.

Huh.

Becoming so changed or entranced by a Wind that you stop seeing its dangers or forget who you originally were.

Do you reward yourself when you do something like this that is hard for you but you deem to be necessary nonetheless? You really should. Like, deliberately.

Generally no, I prefer to get it done then put it firmly in the rearview.

As for nand gates et al, I think that hits the same problem of concerta wire: why build it? We are superimposing our knowledge of technology onto Mathilde, when really she can only see a step ahead on the tech tree.

Yeah, it's a lot easier to build a Turing machine than it is to have the framework of knowledge and concepts that makes doing so significant. Mathilde's not a Connecticut Yankee so she's going to limit the applications of this to things that it makes sense for her to see the use of.

Questions for Boney:
  1. Is it a viable idea for us to try and build a system to detect Waaaghs forming in time to either intervene or evacuate anything in it's path?
  2. Could we take an action to see if Barak Varr would be interested in hiring WEB-MAT to build such a system?
  3. If so would that be a personal action under Foreign Relations or would it be a WEB-MAT action?

Waaagh Magic generally reacts with Waaagh Magic and greenskins and not much else. There's no readily apparent automatable Teclisean method for spotting it that Mathilde can currently think of. The only avenues to start experimentation without delving full on into wielding Waaagh Magic herself would be to experiment with various types of greenskin-derived fungus to see if there's any that visibly react to Waaagh energies that also won't result in a new bloom of greenskins in the surrounding area, and that's got 'first five minutes of a post-apocalypse movie' written all over it. If such a thing could be built and was proven to be safe, then pretty much every border fort and watchtower on the continent would want one.

Still rereading.

I'm assuming that since we didn't get an introductory pamphlet for "Invisibility beyond invisibility" upon being promoted it means the Colleges have yet to find a way to completely hide from magical detection.

...Unless there is, and Algard's going to be like "Well, you never asked.".

None they're sharing. The thing about using magic to hide from Magesight is you then have to hide that magic from Magesight and how are you going to do that without introducing even more magic that needs to be hidden?
 
I think Mathilde and Egrimm might have quite a bit of difficulty being able to make the hypothetical Waaagh-sensing device. It's a more alien energy than the Winds, it's not even something they can indirectly affect by moving around their own winds and repelling it. We know there's certain materials which are better for channeling certain Winds, and whatnot, but I don't imagine the Colleges have much for understanding Waaagh energies in the same way.

There would likely not be much precision to the device (it's not a precise force in the first place, and Mathilde perceives Waaagh energies as a taste), so I imagine 'big alarm that rings when the energy goes above a certain level' is about as good as you'll get. And as others have pointed out, at high enough levels that you get a Waaagh, scouts and gyrocopters are probably better for alerting people.

Edit: Eshin'd by Boney.

I understand why it's happening, and that they're only mutually exclusive in the short term, but I have to admit I'm a tad amused that the thread is simultaneously more excited and speculative about the auditory Seviroscope and near-unanimously voting for the visual version instead.
Yeah, people have been speculating about making a visual Seviroscope ever since Kragg was grumbling that he couldn't even see the runes on Bok, over (checks) 3 years and 230 days ago. And since the use-case was mostly just Bok and maybe hoping that it'd be applicable to other forms of research, I don't recall anyone even having the idea of an auditory version.

In fact, I wonder if we'd have to call the auditory version something else, given that 'scope' as a suffix simply means 'instrument for seeing'. What's the equivalent for hearing?
 
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Maybe it's simply been lost in translation, but why would a sword of Ulgu be made of light? Was Ulgu hiding Hysh? Or... I kinda want to imagine that "Tlanxla's Sword of Judgement" is more mystical: Ulgu can be the shadows between light and dark, but it can also be the dividing line that separates (judgement) light and dark apart. Or it's something else entirely.
If there was an actual physical sword, it seems to have been a lizardman one, and lizardman magitech is way way WAY more associated with light than it is with shadow. If there is not an actual physical sword and the sword is 100% metaphor then yeah it's quite likely that over the years a metaphor that mostly made sense in combination with a DIFFERENT mythic tale revolving around associations with magic that verena lacks would be like, the first thing to get shifted around.

In fact, I wonder if we'd have to call the auditory version something else, given that 'scope' as a suffix simply means 'instrument for seeing'. What's the equivalent for hearing?
Sevirostethiscope :V
 
If there is a way to hide completely from Magesight instead of it being a matter of one person's hiding vs another person's spotting, it would be about as restricted as Battle Magic because it would make rogue Grey Wizards infinitely harder to deal with.
Or maybe we should ask Clan Eshin? :)
"Deal," you finally respond, staring into the darkness and trying to figure out why your Magesight insists there's nothing out there.
With the topic of the Duel invisibility brought up, how did that (or say Regimand) compare to the 'magesight insisting there's nothing there' of the Eshin assassin? Would Mathilde suspect some other capability behind it, perhaps even a 'Lore of Stealth' Eshin magic trick (obv. without knowing the name of the magic school)?
 
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None they're sharing. The thing about using magic to hide from Magesight is you then have to hide that magic from Magesight and how are you going to do that without introducing even more magic that needs to be hidden?
Wait a minute, Magesight see winds, winds are disturbe be emotions, and the Eshin learned from Cathay.
Could the trick be not to actively hide from Magesight, but reach a state of Zen where you meld with the background ?
 
I do think if anyone could build a Waaagh detector it'd be Mathilde- between Windsage, Waaaghbane, and her work with the magic mushrooms she's probably one of the most qualified people to give it a good try.

There is a rather large gap between building a Waaagh detector and building one with enough range to be useful, however- Waaaghs are not, as a rule, terribly subtle. You can usually spot them coming from pretty far away to begin with.

Or maybe we should ask Clan Eshin? :)

With the topic of the Duel invisibility brought up, how did that compare to the 'magesight insisting there's nothing there' of the Eshin assassin?

The wording implies to me that its less being totally absent from magesight, and more a 'nothing to see here' mental effect.
 
With the topic of the Duel invisibility brought up, how did that compare to the 'magesight insisting there's nothing there' of the Eshin assassin? Would Mathilda suspect some other capability or trick, perhaps even a 'Lore of Stealth' type trick (without knowing the name of the magic)?

If Mathilde could tell anything about it, she'd have been able to see him. The thing about things hidden from you is that it's really hard to extract any hard data on what's hiding them unless you're able to find them first.
 
I love the idea of the auditory Seviroscope, because anything that can be translated into sound can become a mechanical movement. The simplest example of this is a seismograph-type rollout with the bouncing needles that can record ambient wind measurements over time.

Instead of having to rely on eyeballing locations and trying to keep written records, the Colleges and the Elector Counts can send out surveyors to any location they please and have a relatively accurate understanding of what the mystical environment tends to look like in an area over the course of a week or month.

The main use for that is noticing sudden spikes in uncommon winds that can point towards important environmental changes.

Build-ups of Dhar or the other Malefic Magics seem like the first use case, but you could maybe also use it to see if the Ghyran in a field is going up or down over the course of a week, which might be able to indicate if a set of crops might be going bad -- a sudden bout of Ghur might let you tell the difference between an incursion of hiding Beastmen or a pack of hungry animals.

You can also use the devices as a defensive type of vetting. If a person pings Dhar that's definitely a Hint, and hiding that sort of thing is not easy or quick.

Vetting-scopes along the halls can also detect large quantities of Ulgu; it's a bit of a self-own, but if I recall correctly Invisibility is mystically visible, and the Scope telling guards that Ulgu is in an empty hallway of, say, the Imperial Palace is a pretty good use-case.

It would be very expensive, but you could also employ an auditory Seviroscope as the mechanism for a straightforward trap; Dhar cutting a tripwire as surely as a misplaced foot.
Ohh, that's really smart. I love it.

I'm thinking, how about you combine the auditory seviroscope with leylines? The prosaic application is that if you're suddenly getting a lot of azyr, there's probably a storm in that direction. Which is nice to know, but not amazing.

On the other hand, if you're suddenly getting a lot of Shyish, you should probably send someone to investigate. I imagine this mostly useful with a tributary in a remote-ish village, and the connected waystone in a bigger city.
Obviously, the same applies doubly if your dhar meter suddenly jumps.

But yeah, the possibility of using the network as a broad, if crude, sensor network is actually pretty cool. If we do end up developing the auditory version down the line, I'd like to investigate that possibility for the waystone project.
Becoming so changed or entranced by a Wind that you stop seeing its dangers or forget who you originally were.
I'm going to headcanon this as the reason Mathilde at quest start had such an anemic spell list, when she clearly has a good amount of talent.
And probably the foundation why she's really, really careful about BM spells (though the constant explosive miscasts she's seen are what built on that foundation).
 
The only avenues to start experimentation without delving full on into wielding Waaagh Magic herself would be to experiment with various types of greenskin-derived fungus to see if there's any that visibly react to Waaagh energies that also won't result in a new bloom of greenskins in the surrounding area, and that's got 'first five minutes of a post-apocalypse movie' written all over it.
What I'm getting from this is that we should create a new tower for this experimentation and give it a name that spells out UMBRELLA.
 
If Mathilde could tell anything about it, she'd have been able to see him. The thing about things hidden from you is that it's really hard to extract any hard data on what's hiding them unless you're able to find them first.
Yes, of course, I guess I'm asking if that complete absence was different from her experience trying to spot the Duellist, or Regimands' games.
 
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