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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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ReImagined said:
Is that road actually still seeing trade between them? With how they've been feuding I'd have figured that one party would've set increased tariffs at some point, and then the other party would've reciprocated, until it became uneconomical to do anything at all there. There was a Boney quote on how Middenland would prefer Nordland getting no trade than trade that benefits them, though the context for that was trade with Laurelorn.
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The Middenheim-Erengrad road isn't a Middenland/Nordland trade route. It's a Middenheim/Erengrad trade route. If Middenland wants to completely cut out overland trade between their economic center and Kislev's economic center, they are free to do so at the cost of their wallets. The only other way from Middenheim into Kislev is going south and riding the River Talabec all the way down to Kislev, which is not only lengthy, but likely ruinously expensive due to the tariffs they'd have to pay to Talabheim for the incredibly long stretch of river they're crossing.

What's also important to note is that the road shutting down isn't only detrimental to Nordland and Middenland's economy, it's detrimental to Ostland's too, because Ostland is a vital stretch leading to Erengrad in the first place. The economy of the Empire's north isn't predicated on this road, but it is actively contributing to their trade routes. Something the north is especially concerned about, as they are typically considered the wilder and more impoverished of the Imperial provinces.
 
mathymancer said:
We talked to the Graf's son during Kazrik and Edda's wedding, and we'll probably get to talk to more Middenland leadership once they learn that we have a magic trick that will solve the lack of road. Right now Mathilde is only kind of aligned with Middenland, if the Eonir agree to the Mist Road and the project goes actually goes through Boris Todbringer might just kiss Mathilde. Well, he'll try at least, Mathilde's taken.
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This is actually a really good point, I had totally forgotten about that conversation. Here it is, so people don't need to go looking:
Boney said:
"I suspect they would be most familiar with Imperial Dwarves, whose ancestors built kingdoms in the Reik Basin and lost them during the War. But it is the Elves I wished to speak to you of today, My Lord, and how Middenland's partnership with them is progressing."

"Damned slow it seems to me, but at what I'm told is a breakneck pace for Elves. One of their Houses has taken responsibility for the Ulrican faith among the Eonir and is building a temple to Him in their city, and the Graf couldn't be happier. This whole matter was an unexpected windfall after an already advantageous beginning - the Beastlord who he was pursuing into that swamp is one that he had faced before and taken the eye of, and ever since it seemed determined to avenge itself upon the citizens of Middenland. The timely intervention of the Eonir helped bring the matter to a close, where otherwise it would have just been one more bloody chapter in an already too-long saga."

"So no problems at all, then?"

"Oh, Nordland is still furious, and they keep nudging the Nordlander Ulricans into mumbling something condemning about it all, but honestly they got their hands caught in the cookie jar and they need to take their lumps and be thankful they're not getting what Drakwald got. The only real problem is where to go from here. They want to start trading and so do we, but they refuse to build a road through their swamp - can't blame them, considering how useful it was against the Beastmen - and the only other alternatives will piss off Nordland or Marienburg or both. So perhaps we just have to be patient and let things simmer down before we escalate things even further."

"Glad to hear it. Give my best regards to the Graf."

"And mine to the Queen."
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OK, that shifts my opinion back towards getting the fog path route negotiated next turn. If it succeeds, that will be a huge diplomatic coup, and hopefully we can then leverage Middenland's existing diplomatic and espionage apparatus to keep heat off the Waystone Project. It's not like we really want anything from Middenland, after all.
 
Boney said:
They want to start trading and so do we, but they refuse to build a road through their swamp - can't blame them, considering how useful it was against the Beastmen - and the only other alternatives will piss off Nordland or Marienburg or both.
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I suppose the Fog Road will fall under 'both', but oh well.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Depends on whether they have any decent libraries or not.
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Quickly cribbed from @Andre's excellent post on libraries of the Old World, which I carefully curated to include locations that we would be interested in (I'm not too sure we care about local Middenheim sewer maps or an entire history of Middenheim's legislature)
Andres said:
Bleistift's Scriptorium
A large, impressive, and heavily ornate building and one of Middenheim's three scriptoria. The lower floor is a huge hall filled with writing desks, arranged in rows of five and columns of ten, at which the scribes sit to copy manuscripts.
Source: WFRP 4e: Middenheim - City of the White Wolf
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Andres said:
Neugierde's Books and Antiques
A small shop that has a virtual monopoly on antiques and curios coming into Middenheim. Sells all manner of antiques, curios, and rare books from across the world, including quasi-artistic pieces from Lustria. As of 2500 IC, the shop has been run for over a century across three generations, building extensive contacts during that time, and the third generation owner has a practised eye and a life of training. As of 2512 IC, the shop owner has contacts in Marienburg, Luccini, and elsewhere, letting him acquire all sorts of particular objects for regular customers at no extra cost, though delivery can take months or even years.
Sources: WFRP 1e: Middenheim - City of Chaos, WFRP 4e: Middenheim - City of the White Wolf
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Andres said:
Offices of the Komission for Elf, Dwarf, and Halfling Interests (KEDHI)/Komission for Elven, Dwarven, and Halfling Interests
A grey stone-clad building that houses the branch of the city's civil service that deals with non-Human interests. KEDHI was set up over a century ago (as of 2500 IC). Komission staff spend most of their time compiling lengthy censuses of the non-human population and producing abstruse, academic treatises on demography, history, and so on. Almost all the elves it represents are retired adventurers, some of whom are scholars.
Sources: WFRP 1e: Middenheim - City of Chaos, WFRP 4e: Middenheim - City of the White Wolf
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Andres said:
Collegium Theologica
An Ulrican academy in Middenheim founded in 1762 IC. It was originally built to train students for the priesthood and promote the publication and study of the cult's religious writings, but its scope now covers every subject from the history of art to the development of safer methods for manufacturing gunpowder. Bestiaria is one of the Collegium's subjects, as are history, law, astronomy, heraldry, and theology, and it's possible to learn non-Reikspiel languages here as well. It's considered one of the best learning centres in the Old World. It lacks an Imperial charter saying it's officially a university, but considers itself equal to the Universities of Altdorf and Nuln.
The Collegium's library is one of the finest in the Old World. The library has musty bookstacks. Among the books in its possession are White Wolf's Range: A Geography of the Middle Mountains by Hieronymous Wundefuesse (2114 IC); the Tilean book on the mathematics of ballistics Taking the Shot: Everything You always Wanted to Know About Ballistics But Were Afraid to Ask by Benevento Cannonero (2401 IC); another Tilean book called Walk Home Syndrome: Escaping on Foot, Alfano Lo Sfortunato Tucci's memoir (1356 IC); Dead is Better, a treatise on the cursed nature of the undead and the methods and means of their disposal by Malthus Morto (1984 IC); Tell No Tales, a translation of a Tilean volume consisting of seven transcripts, purported to be conversations between a Tilean sailor and an undead Khemrian noblewoman (2115 IC); Middenheim's Rise, Fall, and Stumble by Sigismund Strechel; and The Wars of the Poses by Ernst Gibbonstein.
The Collegium has a reciprocal agreement with the University of Altdorf. The Collegium's largest faculty is the Department of Holy and Scriptural Studies, which has the largest library in Middenheim and focuses on history, law, and Ulrican religious writings, employing two full-time librarians. The library is available for research. The DHSS receives disbursements from the Graf and the Temple of Ulric and tax-deductible donations from wealthy citizens.
The Collegium has one of Middenheim's three scriptoria and a Theatre of Anatomy where crowds can watch dissections take place.
Sources: Divided Loyalties, WFRP 1e: Middenheim - City of Chaos, WFRP 2e: Ashes of Middenheim, WFRP 3e: The Enemy Within, WFRP 4e: Middenheim - City of the White Wolf, WFRP 4e: The Horned Rat, WFRP 4e: The Horned Rat Companion

Drakwald College of the Holy Wolf
A renowned Ulrican seminary famous for the piety of the priests it produces and infamous for its brutal training regime.
Source: WFRP 2e: Tome of Salvation

The Lore Haus/Lore House/Lehrehaus
One of the outbuildings of the High Temple of Ulric in Middenheim is the Lore Haus, the temple's private library. It's a great library of religious manuscripts where you can find old tomes on Ulrican history and religious law. One of the books it contains in a locked cabinet is The Middle Mountains Campaign: a History of the Glorious Assaults on Brass Keep in the War Against Chaos, with Some Assistance by Magnus of Nuln.
Sources: WFRP 3e: The Enemy Within, WFRP 4e: Middenheim - City of the White Wolf, WFRP 4e: The Horned Rat
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The most noteworthy is at the bottom, the Collegium Theologica, which is one of the best academic institutions in the Empire, rivaling Altdorf and Nuln's institutions.
 
Mopman43 said:
I suppose the Fog Road will fall under 'both', but oh well.
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Pretty sure, in the context of that speech, the fog path here is a method of building a road through the swamp in a manner acceptable to the Eonir.

The alternatives are probably sea routes through former Nordland territory, such as past Hargendorf (probably pissing of Nordland), making new, longer roads that pass through Nordland and possibly some of The Wasteland (Pissing of Nordland and possibly Marienburg) or using canals from the Sea of Claws to make sea rotes, again probably through Hargendorf. (Massively pissing off Marienburg and probably Nordland)
 
I do think overall that if we send spies to Nordland rather than negotiate the fog road, we miss out on the opportunity to really surprise Eike and then see her joy at how magic can be used to facilitate new trade routes.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
If we're willing to sacrifice a personal AP, "both" is also an option.
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I'm half leaning towards that, to be honest. We seem to have a lot we want to do with the EIC these days, and much of it is at least a bit time-sensitive. Getting results a year early, whether that be from the fog road or from intelligence gathering or from the ithilmar action, could be quite important.
 
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That antique dealer sounds like a cool contact to get for a pipeline of Weird Stuff™ to research. And isn't the brass keep supposed to be a former nexus? A book on the history of people attacking it sounds interesting.

As for EIC stuff I *am* coming around to the idea of trying to do both in one turn, as rough as our action economy is. Maybe if we push off the liminal test to the turn after and do all the av stuff at once?
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
If we're willing to sacrifice a personal AP, "both" is also an option.
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I'd sooner sacrifice a finger from my literal hand. We just gained an extra AV action to do before we can close the book on it this past turn, making our scheduling problems even worse:
Tobtorp said:
Edit: Actually @Boney did Mathilde consider AV after the revelation on earthbound magic? Or is it one of those "was considered but couldn't be tested safely so discarded" things?
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Boney said:
Mathilde's blanket theory is that for any value of X where X is a type of distinct magical energy, exposing Aethyric Vitae to X will either detonate it into Winds, turn it into more X, or do nothing.
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Tobtorp said:
I more meant the theory that a wizard being near AV changes it's nature like it did earthbound magic. Or am I misunderstanding?
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Boney said:
It's certainly possible. There'll be a possible action to test it in the coming turn.
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Trying to finish the AV tree in time to be able to start writing the book has gotten a lot harder to do while also keeping the Waystone project moving, especially if we end up needing to spend a personal AP on binding an Apparition. Spending personal AP on EIC stuff is a complete nonstarter as far as I'm concerned; I just really want to finish stuff! Finishing things is so satisfying!

(This is another reason why I don't think we need to have huge fucking stacks of cash before we go to Lothern; if we go on T44, the next time we have Overwork, we're currently on track to go there with about 1000gc in our pockets, and we haven't even finished researching all the shit we got from our last adventure arc. We are not in such dire need of more cool things to poke that we need to jump through hoops. We have so many cool things to poke! I'd rather spend all that money on Asur books than on research materials!)
 
Tasoli said:
This I don't really agree. Yes we should not overly interfre but it is a flashpoint and keeping an eye on it makes sense. Incase it looks like it is going to blow up. Having time to duck and cover might be useful. And Eonir-Empire relations is not internal matter to Empire so acting as a diplomat we can warn Eonir if it looks like Nordland is going to attack and thereby keep our reputation with Eonir intact for future relations.
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I do feel we want to play this fairly smooth and preferably stop things from escalating rather than passing info to the Eonir.

Middenland's siding with the Eonir over Nordland is not uncontroversial - see the large number of Ulricans that quit rather than acting against Nordlander villages. If Nordland can frame aiding the Eonir as 'stabbing fellow members of the Empire' in the back for foreigners things can become too hot real quick even for Luitpold - the Eonir aren't a long term friendly polity like the Karaz Ankor.

We'd be better off stopping conflicts - maybe even give Nordland something else to do.
 
Wiggy said:
As for EIC stuff I *am* coming around to the idea of trying to do both in one turn, as rough as our action economy is. Maybe if we push off the liminal test to the turn after and do all the av stuff at once?
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While that's entirely possible, nothing ensures we won't change our minds later on. I would be rather cross if we decided to delay AV further under the argument that, say, it's not time sensitive in the least and something more interesting in the moment came up.
 
I think if we skip the web-mat bonus this turn, we can fit things in?

1: liminal realm (gambler)
2: foundations
3: tributary deployment (Kislev? Laurelorn? Middenheim?)
4: EIC bridge
5: apparitions with Johann
Free EIC: spies in Nordland
KAU: library copying
Serenity: windfall with Egrimm

The following turn, we can do orbs, a follow up apparition action, and an AV book writing action? Which gives us plenty of space for waystone stuff as well.

Or we can shuffle apparitions off into the future?
 
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