Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
Though I will note that the quote you supply mentions that this is as correct as saying "none": the library isn't dedicated to any religious institution, the mountain used to be dedicated to her. Mathilde was jumping through bureaucratic hoops which assumed certain things to be true about the library which aren't really true for a library in a dwarfhold.
Admittedly! But the argument does exist that any library there to be of common good to all dwarves is, in its own way, dedicated to Valaya.

And the vote on what to focus our library on does note that even in the area that it doesn't excel, it would still be "reasonably capacious, comfortable, pious, well-ordered, enduring, and secure". I don't think it's that much of a stretch.
 
Last edited:
And I want him keeping an eye on the east, too - there's rumours of a new Overtyrant among the Ogres, and that could really interfere with trade.

So I was rereading for a bit and found this. I don't know much about Ogres so I wanted to ask, would they have accumulated books from robbing traders over the years? And would it be possible to trade for them with any book they have?

Also can an Ogre be an Everchosen? Cause Overtyrant sounds intimidating enough to be Everchosen material to me.
 
while wanting a few petty rivalries for extra narrative complexity is all well and good, we are in AP hell and most of the things many want to see happen would be actively hindered by rivalries with polities that are several weight classes above us.

honestly, if you want a rivalry you should probably angle for a person. an entire massive cult is a bit much.

We are playing a lord magister of the Grey order, there aren't a great many people powerful enough to serve as a rival.
 
I agree with you in principle, but I do not think the cult of Verena of all gods can be a serious threat to an elector count, a really annoying impediment, no doubt the lawyers, the banisters and the scribes can hold up the system for a long time, but at the seventh and last most of the swords are in the hands of the Sigmarites and other more militant cults. Only so many knights of the Scroll to go around.

More broadly what strikes be as... well a little disappointing in this instance as in others that came up in warhammer quests over the years is that quest protagonists seem to end up never forming rivalries with others on 'Team Good Guy'. Don't get me wrong I think that collaboration is the key to the setting and we should have more of it, but it would be nice to have rivals that are not various kinds of monster, raise some interesting moral quandaries. Maybe we can come to change and grow by them, aid our rivals in our hour of need or kick them when they are down, both would be interesting narrative beats, but even trying to bad mouth people who rivaled us out of nowhere got this much pushback, I do not even want to imagine what a vote would look like. Guess we will do the optimal thing yet again (and I say this as someone who pushes for optimal paths regularly ) it would be nice if we could meander a bit.
To do that we need to stay in the Empire when we are picking jobs. We are always at the borders so we always engage as outsiders.

Once we say that Waystones are done we are going to have to pick a job and going for Supreme Matriarch might be interest if we are interested in politics. But it is my second choice after being Border Prince.
 
So I was rereading for a bit and found this. I don't know much about Ogres so I wanted to ask, would they have accumulated books from robbing traders over the years? And would it be possible to trade for them with any book they have?

Also can an Ogre be an Everchosen? Cause Overtyrant sounds intimidating enough to be Everchosen material to me.
It's probably Greasus Goldtooth, the over-tyrant that figured out (will figure out?) that taxing/guarding caravans rather than eating them leads to more meat and gold in the long run.

He is not a good guy by any means, but he ends up being more of a stabilising influence that made the silk road more profitable.
 
So I was rereading for a bit and found this. I don't know much about Ogres so I wanted to ask, would they have accumulated books from robbing traders over the years? And would it be possible to trade for them with any book they have?

Also can an Ogre be an Everchosen? Cause Overtyrant sounds intimidating enough to be Everchosen material to me.
It's (probably) Greasus Goldtooth.

I don't think there's anything in theory stopping an Ogre from becoming Everchosen, but I don't think Greasus is the guy.

I think Ghark Ironskin if any Ogre, or maybe Bragg the Gutsman.

The former because he's already a close ally to the Chaos Dwarfs, the latter because he's an outcast among his own people (because he developed a fighting technique based around gutting his opponents, which Ogres find repulsive)
 
Last edited:
We are playing a lord magister of the Grey order, there aren't a great many people powerful enough to serve as a rival.
we are going to have to pick somethign else to do once we finish with the waystones. vote to be a border princess for a bit if that's still open. plenty of rivalries there.

we are working on something big. so rivalries are just annoying to most. when we work on something smaller, rivalries there arn't so annoying and you are more likely to convince people to do them.

though, starting with that you want a rivalry for narrative flavour when you are arguing for something is likely going to be more effective than advocating that something is good when you are actually advocating for something that you think will cause a rivalry.

if nothign else, less people will argue against you when they notice the discrepancy

asuming that is what you were doing, seems like it, but these things are hard to tell.
 
Last edited:
To do that we need to stay in the Empire when we are picking jobs. We are always at the borders so we always engage as outsiders.

Once we say that Waystones are done we are going to have to pick a job and going for Supreme Matriarch might be interest if we are interested in politics. But it is my second choice after being Border Prince.

But there are people we could develop a rivalry even here. In my oppinion if a cult randomly deciding to denounce us for doing what a significant portion of its members want while paying generously for the defense of their city is not enough to even incline the player base to be mildly adversarial than I think the whole idea is a lost cause

I thought Sigmar was our rival?

The last time we interacted with his cult Mathilde was polite and the witch hunters were professional. We had all but one time in the whole quest when we actually acted on Disdain for Sigmar and that is the Stirland Watch affair.
 
Last edited:
I agree with you in principle, but I do not think the cult of Verena of all gods can be a serious threat to an elector count, a really annoying impediment, no doubt the lawyers, the banisters and the scribes can hold up the system for a long time, but at the seventh and last most of the swords are in the hands of the Sigmarites and other more militant cults. Only so many knights of the Scroll to go around.

The Verenans control the justice system and have plenty of Knightly Orders, aka private armies obedient to them. They are a militant cult, even if they're more focused on internal repression maintenance of order. The likes of the Order of Sword and Scale are very much about enforcing the Verenan version of justice at sword point, and explicitly see throwing down tyrants who pervert or overstep their lawful authority as one of their obligations.

They're a major threat to an Elector Count who they lose faith in, as they see it as their divine mandate to overthrow them. Not in a Ranaldite way, but in a Barons overthrowing King John for stepping on what they see as their legal rights kind of way. I see them as the systems' response to part of it and overstepping their bounds.

More broadly what strikes be as... well a little disappointing in this instance as in others that came up in warhammer quests over the years is that quest protagonists seem to end up never forming rivalries with others on 'Team Good Guy'. Don't get me wrong I think that collaboration is the key to the setting and we should have more of it, but it would be nice to have rivals that are not various kinds of monster, raise some interesting moral quandaries. Maybe we can come to change and grow by them, aid our rivals in our hour of need or kick them when they are down, both would be interesting narrative beats, but even trying to bad mouth people who rivaled us out of nowhere got this much pushback, I do not even want to imagine what a vote would look like. Guess we will do the optimal thing yet again (and I say this as someone who pushes for optimal paths regularly ) it would be nice if we could meander a bit.

This, however, is fair enough.
 
Last edited:
More broadly what strikes be as... well a little disappointing in this instance as in others that came up in warhammer quests over the years is that quest protagonists seem to end up never forming rivalries with others on 'Team Good Guy'.
I am not 100% sure what you are saying, but I am pretty sure it is not that we don't butt heads with others on team good guy.

We had this whole thing about Sigmar and those who follow him for a while. I'm not sure what counts as a rivalry, but we sure had it out for him for a while.

We have a serious conflict of interest with Nordland, which could lead to assassinations and/or armed conflict,

Marienburg is also anti-chaos, so probably also team good guy? We definitely have no love lost for them.

Alric is a bit short-sighted and unwise in his grasping for power, but we definitely had a (secret) antagonism for him.

We have contributed directly to the future breaking of the runesmiths guild, likely resulting in some lost knowledge and slayer runesmiths.

What do you mean by rivalry? Do you mean a group that we poke and annoy just for the fun of it? (Like we tried annoying low level people from certain other colleges when we visited?) I am a bit confused.
 
If we are considering using the EIC to gather information useful to us does it make more sense to infiltrate the Cult of Ulric or Middenland?
  • If we infiltrate the Cult of Ulric specifically then we will get a better understanding of the schism forming in the cult, and how it might affect the Waystone project. We would probably also be able to keep tabs on how the Ulricans view the Eonir worshiping Ulric, though the social voting tells me about the thread's feelings of urgency on that.
  • If we infiltrate Middenland we will only get a more general view of the schism, and only from one side, missing the Nordlander Ulrican perspective. We might, however, have a chance of spotting opportunities for more trade between Middenland and Laurelorn that would let us double down on the ties enabled by the RoW bridge.
Getting a rumor mill from the Cult of Ulric makes more sense to me, but I am interested in other opinions. I don't know if the EIC already had a moderate presence in interstate trade in Talabecland before we inserted agents, or if that is a more recent development. For the Cult of Ulric we only have a minor presence in Middenheim, and none in Nordland. For Middenland we only have a minor presence in southern Middenland right now, so either of these infiltrations might be a little harder than previous espionage. I will still make a variant of my plan that does the EIC agent infiltration with Eike's help next turn, though I expect it won't win compared to negotiating the RoW bridge.
@Boney can we have Eike help the Hochlander insert agents (i.e. Eike Actions: EIC infiltration action). Can we also just have the Hochlander train Eike in espionage (i.e. Eike Study: Infiltration/Tradecraft with the Hochlander)?
 
Last edited:
Having the EIC involved with the RoW bridge would probably make it much easier/more effective to use the EIC to build an intelligence network in Middenland and Middenheim.
 
I am not 100% sure what you are saying, but I am pretty sure it is not that we don't butt heads with others on team good guy.

We had this whole thing about Sigmar and those who follow him for a while. I'm not sure what counts as a rivalry, but we sure had it out for him for a while.

We have a serious conflict of interest with Nordland, which could lead to assassinations and/or armed conflict,

Marienburg is also anti-chaos, so probably also team good guy? We definitely have no love lost for them.

Alric is a bit short-sighted and unwise in his grasping for power, but we definitely had a (secret) antagonism for him.

We have contributed directly to the future breaking of the runesmiths guild, likely resulting in some lost knowledge and slayer runesmiths.

What do you mean by rivalry? Do you mean a group that we poke and annoy just for the fun of it? (Like we tried annoying low level people from certain other colleges when we visited?) I am a bit confused.
  1. We have done nothing to Norland and I am not sure the EC even knows Mathilde's name, he just hates the elves she lives with. Indeed just last turn we did something mildly good for Norland in the form of the charcoal trade
  2. We have done one action against Sigmar I think something like 15 years ago IC
  3. The most we did against Marianburg was give some advice about what dwarfs would do
  4. Alric probably comes closet, but we did go out of our way to make sure he did not know it was us
I mean a group we work against for profit, that is generally what drives rivalries even ones started for emotional reasons. It was kind of interesting to see the Verenans marked as rivals so I came up with some reasons why it would not be the worst thing in the world to continue it. It is not something I am invested in utterly or anything.
 
Last edited:
I thought Sigmar was our rival?

Well what's the score?

Mathilde has been proclaimed a dwarf - which is one thing Sigmar never managed. On the flip side Mathilde isn't a deity with a massive cult.

Without a better means of keeping score this rivalry is sort of tabled.

We're not deliberately picking a fight with a major cult for basically no real reason.

Not with this attitude we aren't!

The most we did against Marianburg was give some advice about what dwarfs would do

I think we haven't seen the end with Marienburg. We don't have a personal reason to go against them but they are really inconvenient politically and if the Waystone project goes well the Empire will gain a lot of leverage on the Asur thus allowing a free hand to deal with the Marienburgers.
 
Minor Colleges of Nuln
+Will include books on common trades, which could be immediately useful to the population of K8P and further encourage literacy among them.
+Are less prestigious/important than other libraries, so could perhaps be a good first mission for our new scribes to cut their teeth on.
+Possibly includes less technical topics than other options, and so might be an easier task for our fresh scribes.

-Not super clear what those books will be about.
-This is probably the worst option as far as increasing the prestige of our library goes.
-Since those include a number of institutions rather than a single one they're likely to be a pretty scattershot collection, kind of like a completely undirected backfill. Maybe it's best to pick an option where we can at least kind of know what we're getting?
+Much more likely to have romance novels.
 
Having the EIC involved with the RoW bridge would probably make it much easier/more effective to use the EIC to build an intelligence network in Middenland and Middenheim.
We already have a presence of the EIC in middenland. Wilhelmine put it there when she learned we did stuff in laurelorn because generally we like to throw her opportunities of trade (which we absolutely did through the spice trade and now the charcoal)
 
We already have a presence of the EIC in middenland. Wilhelmine put it there when she learned we did stuff in laurelorn because generally we like to throw her opportunities of trade (which we absolutely did through the spice trade and now the charcoal)
I think that's slightly out of order- I'm pretty sure the EIC expanded to Middenheim when Mathilde chose to engage the Eonir in the spice trade.
 
We already have a presence of the EIC in middenland. Wilhelmine put it there when she learned we did stuff in laurelorn because generally we like to throw her opportunities of trade (which we absolutely did through the spice trade and now the charcoal)
There may be an EIC presence in Middenland and Middenheim, but it isn't a very big operation yet:
Current Operations:
Complete dominance over Stirland government contracts.
Complete dominance over supplying goods and services in Karag Nar.
Complete dominance over Western Stirland gong farming.
Complete dominance of intra-Stirland trade.
Moderate dominance over trade in Stirlandian wool products.
Moderate dominance on the Aver.
Moderate presence in interstate trade in Stirland, the Moot, and Talabecland.
Minor presence in interstate trade in Averland, Wissenland, and southern Middenland.
Minor presence in Nuln, Altdorf, and Middenheim.
Minor presence in Barak Varr and Ulrikadrin.
 
Last edited:
Voting is open
Back
Top